"Huckabee stands by remark urging nation toward Christ
DES MOINES - Mike Huckabee, a Republican relying
on support from religious conservatives in Thursday's hard-fought
presidential caucuses, yesterday stood by a decade-old comment in which
he said, "I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back
for Christ."
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071231/NEWS09/712310...
This coupled with our Governor's background and positions about Christmas displays should prove interesting when Huckabee says he respects others beliefs.
when we had values and morals , right and wrong. There is a breakdown in
these going on.
Now there is no benchmark or standard to look to.
A strong Christian influence is good for our nation.
See www.breakpoint.org
there were plenty of people with no values and no morals even back in the 'good 'ol days' when there might have been a benchmark to look to.
mailman chuck....The funny thing is people don't see the correlation between the decline of this country and the removal of Christ from our nation. Thank God...I'm not the only one here that gets it..
When was Christ removed from the nation? It seems that people have made a choice to to do what they wish and follow what they want and now the candidates of one party claim that they will bring us all together under one banner of one faith.
Huckabee's a silly man
We are in a transitionary phase. The organized religions at one time sreved their purpose, they have seen their day. As a student and researcher of the worldwide consciousness movement for over twenty years I have seen a new mind and an evolved consciousness emerge. This has been unreported in the mainstream media outlets who focus on the breakdown of our traditional culture, which is why many see only the breakdown of society and not what is replacing it. See Aquarius Now by Marilyn Ferguson and The Tramslucent Revolution by Arjuna Ardagh
It is a mistake to think we can go back in time when we all held a marrower worldview and think we can relive it. The Bush administration sold us on a promise that he would preserve our "American way of life". Look at the mess they've made. Let's not make the same mistake and elect someone who promises to return us to traditional values.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_evangelist_scandals
And, this doesn't even factor in the decades-long abuse scandals of those in the Catholic Church.
Any surprise many people these days are skeptical, at best, about the role they want religion to play in their lives?
I agree with mccaskey. Not everybody is religious, and there's a lot of different religions - each thinking they'll be the only ones going to heaven. I personally think organized religion is one of the world's biggest hoaxes - it's a huge money maker, and controls the masses. I remember well the 'good old days' when we were required to say the Lord's Prayer before school everyday (TPS), etc. - yes, the world was a better place, less crime & violence, better morals, etc. But I don't think credit should be given to religion. We can't ignore the effects of the media, tv, movies, music, internet, the general decline of morals, consequences, respect (and good old fashioned 'shame' worked wonders to keep people on the right track - when people just felt bad enough about the idea of doing something wrong that they didn't do it). . I remember going to see George Carlin live in the 70's & heard his bit about the 7 dirty words you can't say on tv - and just saw it again on cable. There was a shockwave that went through the audience when he spewed out those words. Now, it's the norm on tv, cable, music, internet. I remember when my kids were in grade school, I forbid them to say the expression 'it sucks',. because it derived from a sexual thing that had a dirty meaning when I was a kid. Watching "Kid Nation", several of the kids on that show used that expression freely - along with 'ass', "Bite Me", "Screw You", etc. These were kids aged 14 & under. Ass cracks, male & female, are the norm - where they once were plumber joke material. If a woman went out without her underware, it was on purpose but done discreetly & nobody but her lover knew about it. No 12 yr old girl ever would have been allowed (or able to buy) a tight belly shirt that read "I'm hot" when I was a kid. I realize that even Socrates bemoaned how corrupt the youth of his day had become, and out of control, and how they had no respect for their elders. So I 'get' that what's going on in the world now, is just an extention of that,and I"m showing my age. More to the point - I dont think religion, or bringing Christianity back en masse, is going to fix any problems. I think all of these problems fall directly at the feet of the media & the parents abiltity & courage to say "NO", and stand up for what they believe & not keep giving in to little Timmy & Susie's whines. I fear for this country when I see how kids are anymore - the schools have no power, too many parents have lost any power they had - we've become a society of overmedicated kids & adults, where the very 'cure' may well be the cause of so much violence. God & Chrisitianity haven't left this country - it's always been there for the believers. The only thing that's left, was the daily prayer in public schools & public religious displays.
Things are definitely different now than, say, 30+ years ago, but I wonder were the good old days really that much better? Or does the collective memory of those days forget the bad and remember the good? Like when you haven't seen certain family for awhile, get excited to run into them over the holidays, and go "oh, that's right, I forgot uncle Fred always gets toasted and makes passes at my wife", and then try to remember not see them again.
I mean, heck, while the country has been going to "hell in a handbasket", we've also made looooong strides in overcoming racial discrimination, opened life opportunities for women in a number of careers that they had no choice to participate in, worked to end major abuses of workers' rights, realized that the blanket destruction of our country's natural resources might not be in our best interest, made serious advances in understanding and working with the mentally ill, opened eyes to a larger worldview, etc. People are so dang quick to point out today's problems (of which there are many of them, I concur, and there are long ways to go) without mentioning all of the good that has gone with those advances. I would say these are big picture items, and I'll put up with pants hanging down around one's butt crack in exchange (*shiver*). That's my main point.
Secondary Point: And while religion can be a guiding force in enacting social change for good, many religions in America have actively opposed (either explicitly or by maintaining centuries-old habits and structures) those very changes that I would posit have made America better. Discrimination. Oppression of women. Intolerance of other cultures. And not fringe religions, but people of Huckabee's ilk. Instead of talking about the future of America, you hear of a return to an America that never really was the way you "remember", like a Disney-sponsored version of history.
Wombat-
That's a serious charge
Who are these people of 'Huckabee's ilk' that oppress women and are intolerant of other cultures?
I have been in Toledo my whole life and have been around these church folk and haven't met anyone like this. I know folk that pour out their lives for the poor , young pregnant teens, the sick . I just got off the phone with a friend, a 60 year old man that has served for over a decade at a halfway house on the East Side , staffing it virtually by himself 24/7. He too is one of these
'evangelicals' .
As for me , I have a family from Asia staying in my house . The husband just received his college degree and hopes to find work in his field.
So why be afraid of people like me ? Because my views are different than yours ? My faith moves me to give out my life for others. That is a good thing for America
McCaskey
Ok , you have a good point - Power corrupts. It corrupts those in church positions of power. May I encourage you to look around at the small people of faith. Like the Catholic priest I deliver mail to . I always see him serving others, two parishes , giving out a kind word. For every person of faith who has fallen to corruption, there are a hundred that make big differences in peoples' lives in a positive way. And you can see them all over Toledo , if you eyes to see them.
What you said: "For every person of faith who has fallen to corruption, there are a hundred that make big differences in peoples' lives in a positive way. And you can see them all over Toledo , if you eyes to see them."....
.... Amen to that. I couldn't have said it any better. The most Christ centered people I have come to know over the past 3 or 4 decades are those who toil in the background... not looking to make a show of themselves, but rather to serve others.
But, it is (unfortunately) understandable that some people believe organized religion is just a big hoax, if their only exposure to it is through observing some of the highly polished and spit shined tele evangelists who clearly have other, selfish motives in mind.
*****************************
"Let's see", said the blind man as he picked up the hammer and saw.
I think part of it is, that the ones who are fallen to corruption as you put it, are the ones who end up running for political positions.
i too have see so much good in people of faith. i would not be here if it was not for my faith. i would have ended my life just like my parents did just a few years ago.it's what was shown to me as what you do when times get tough, but my faith showed me there is another way.
there is so much good that is being done with in churches as they reach out to the community. yes, there are some that abuse their positions, but the good by far out weigh the bad. for me, it does not matter what anyone says about what's wrong with organized religion, i just keep my eyes on Jesus.
oh, and starling, you may think that organized religion is one of the biggest hoaxes, well you are entitled to your opinion, but as for me, i would rather believe with my whole heart in Jesus, than to brush Him aside and find out in the end i was wrong.
Is not the down fall of the faith.
It is the people who twist and distort for their own personal gain, monetary and status.
But see, I tend to wonder, where was Jesus, God, et al, when that family got killed by the drunk driver? (I know....I've heard so many 'explanations', but still..................)
The Good Old Days to which I refer, were not perfect days & I never implied they were. I also never implied that there hasn't been amazing progress in this country - civil & women's rights, technology, medicine, etc. Of course there has. I simply meant there seemed to be a more clear cut line between right & wrong, and most people honored & didn't cross the line. Of course many did - but overall, kids were far more polite, mannered, well behaved, respectful than those who were not. When I was in Jr. & High School, the worst offenses were gum chewing & note passing & there was hell to pay if you got caught (3 hard whacks to my skirted backside for note passing in study hall). I dont condone corporal punishment - it was wrong even then. My point is that the schools had firm rules & stood by them, and most parents had firm rules & you were in for a double-whammy at home if you got in trouble at school. I remember being ordered (often) to get on my knees in the school hallway, so the dean of girls could check the length of my skirt (sent home if it was an inch or two too short). I got sent home in my junior year for going braless (you could not tell, except there was no 'bra line' under my shirt - and I was small enough to get away with it). Ditto the boys for tucked in shirts. No, it was not a perfect time. But people seemed nicer, treated people better, they weren't shooting up schools & malls. Now, it seems that most teens are on some psychotropic medication for add, adhd, depression, bi-polar disorder. Of course I also recognise that mental health has come a very long way (I have seen the insides of the old state mental hospitals). I guess maybe like "Tale Of Two Cities" - "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...". The same probably could be said about our present - but it's awfully hard for the present to outshine what once was to me. I've been there, & I've been here .
What would happen if we were all saved from all things that we caused, as an example, I cross the street and get hit and my relations ask why did God do this or why did God not save me.
I made the choice to act as I did and I paid the consequences.
We get the ability to make choices and we pay for them good or bad.
"My point is that the schools had firm rules & stood by them, and
most parents had firm rules & you were in for a double-whammy at
home if you got in trouble at school. I remember being ordered (often)
to get on my knees in the school hallway, so the dean of girls could
check the length of my skirt (sent home if it was an inch or two too
short). I got sent home in my junior year for going braless (you could
not tell, except there was no 'bra line' under my shirt - and I was
small enough to get away with it). Ditto the boys for tucked in shirts.
No, it was not a perfect time. But people seemed nicer, treated people
better, they weren't shooting up schools & malls."
Funny, there are countries that use some of the same tactics in some way or fashion and they are thought to be to restrictive.
Some in the U.S. clamor for more control and discipline and want a return to modesty but yet criticize others for controlling just that, by dress codes, rules for public behavior and so on. And some here seem to want a strict regime of do's and don't according some quasi religious moral ethic.
"Now, it seems
that most teens are on some psychotropic medication for add, adhd,
depression, bi-polar disorder."
I would not, claim most, some maybe. I too have wondered about this and we have to wonder with all the conveniences of modern life are we are not some how killing ourselves.
Lead paint has just been notice in Chinese made toys and products and then the food contamination, both human and animal, and who knows what else.
And then there was the news that heating plastics in microwaves releases toxins.
What are we doing to ourselves.
How many times does U.S. Constitution and Declaration of Independents mention Jesus Christ?
On a completely inappropriate side note:
When I was high school (15+ years ago), my guy friends and I went out of our way to date the girls that went to the all girl Catholic high schools (especially the St. Ursula girls), those Christian girls really knew how to show a guy a good time.
I never meant to suggest that dress codes are a good thing - only that 30 plus years ago (or less), there was less 'in your face' obscenity, butt cracks, visible underwear, etc. The 60's had it's share of mini skirts, but they didn't go to school I have no problem with mini skirts - within reason at school. Of course my Jr.& High school was restrictive & bordered on silly, and corporal punishment with the big old wooden paddles. I"m not suggesting a return to that. (and it was TPS McTigue Jr.& Roger's HIgh School, circa 1960's). I'm just saying that as a society, we can't blame it's downfall on a lack or loss of religion. We also can't blame it all on MTV. But there's been a downhill slide nonetheless.
I understand we make our own choises & can't expect a God to save us from those bad choises. But I fail to see what bad choises that family made. Anyone? Anyone?
I have read a few articles & watched a video that seems to suggest (a lot) that this new vaccine they are requiring kids to get, uses mercury as a preservative - and it says that it may well be the reason so many kids are autistic now (more than ever before). My neighbor said she'd read the same thing, and her son has 2 autistic kids - 20 years ago, an autistic child was not the norm. And I have to wonder about this new vaccine that's supposed to prevent cervical cancer & the vaccine they're working on to prevent aids - wonder what they're loaded with? (rumor has it "they" want to thin the population by 80 percent in the end).
Sure, but I stand by it, Mailman Chuck. Track back some religious groups 30 years, and they were actively against racial integration, patently against certain women's rights (and I'm not talking abortion - I'm talking basic rights to follow their own ideas, to try and achieve societal equality), etc. And not just a few 'corrupt preachers' or extreme religions. We're talking systemic practice amongst many fundamentalist religions, both in the North and the South. Some have changed over the years, but step foot in a Southern Baptist church down in Georgia and tell me that those prejudices don't still run deep there.
But that does not mean that they don't also do good. We all have a wide range of good & bad in us, and one does not preclude the other. Groups can be biased and prejudiced and still commit to deeply helping underserved groups, doing service work, or transmitting important societal and moral norms. Gosh, I was doing some work with a group that was sending a van of churchgoers to help repair houses in New Orleans about 1.5 years ago. This was a nice, kind group of 20-somethings that were going to do good work, yeah for them, but they were also a group of "convert 'em or hate 'em" christians that were intolerant of divergent viewpoints.
Mailman Chuck, I am not afraid of people like you as you state. I don't even know where that comes from. I grew up going to church, and being an active participant in both protestant and catholic services, even doing some ministry work through high school (did both public and private). I have also volunteered to do youth work with a friend who is a youth group minister, and continue to do so. I don't actively attend church, but may migrate back in the future. Maybe not. It might be comforting to think that people who criticize organized religions just don't "get it", only watch religious thugs like Pat Robertson, or perhaps are hellspawn, but that is most likely not the case. You are probably talking to folks who at one time were practicing Christians. Perhaps studied history & religion in-depth. Maybe follow politics closely. Maybe even try to get a big picture view of where religion fits into the world they think about. I agree wholeheartedly that the day-to-day good that individual churchgoers do is important to note, but the larger-scale societal impacts must also be balanced into the equation. And gosh, my points before were not that christians don't "do good", or that religion is a hoax, but rather that it is important to remember that many Christian religions also have historically "done bad" as well, and some continue to do so.
There are tons and tons of people out there, BTW, who (a) don't go to church or (b) celebrate a different religion than Christianity that do tons of good in this country & around the world. Do they not have morals, standards, or benchmarks for right & wrong? Gosh, what about the MAJORITY OF THE WORLD that is not Christian - do they not have the ability to create a true right and wrong?