Smoking declines as taxes increase

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As Congress weighs the biggest federal cigarette tax hike in history, a USA TODAY analysis finds that higher state taxes on smokers have produced sharp declines in consumption.
The amount of decline in smoking is directly tied to the size of the tax increase, the analysis shows.

Cigarette sales fell 18% in North Carolina last year after the tax was raised in two steps to 35 cents from a nickel. The tobacco-growing state resisted higher cigarette taxes until 2005. Elsewhere:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-08-09-1Alede_N.htm

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Is there any other retail product in this Great Country of ours that is taxed as high vs. cost of goods sold?

I"m now of opinion that the State and Federal Governments now make more on a pack of smokes than the the private manufacturer. TROUBLESOME.

I don't smoke, but I do believe this is pretty messed up!

A lot of people simply stopped buying cigarettes in Ohio - they go out of state, or have relatives or friends mail them to them, or roll their own. So this article is not really accurate in asssuming that less cig taxes mean less people smoking.

I read that there are about 30 percent less smokers now than there was a decade ago - then WHY are there MORE cases of cancer than a decade ago? Spinning numbers to suit the articles - they just pull them out of the air. Bottom line, is there has never been anybody who's died from shs - and not one study suggests that it's even a remote hazard of getting a disease. There are tens of thousands of carcinagens we're all subjected to daily - shs is small potatoes compared to some of the others. They should focus their time & money on things that really will kill you.

GZ - A LOT of current carcinagens have been around as long, or longer than shs. The POINT, is that they need to STOP this insanity of tobacco prohibition & taxation; and STOP assuming/blaming every death on smoking or shs. I've read so many articles where people assume/blame the deaths of their non-smoking loved ones on shs, when in fact the cause was more likely genetic, or caused by another source. But that's not the popular stance - it's easy to blame shs & smoking for everything - helps push those taxes even higher. And people are gullible & will believe it. People like something to blame, and tobacco is the 'bad guy' who gets blamed, fairly or not. I was approached in a gas station while buying a pack of cigs, by an older woman who warned me to stop smoking immediately, because her husband died 20 years ago from heart disease (she did say he didn't smoke,but his brother did). What rudeness - I can't imagine somebody approaching an overweight person & demanding they NOT buy that bag of chips. This war on tobacco is causing mass hysteria, and it's bullshit. History WILL repeat itself - for anybody who needs a refresher course, research "prohibition". Didn't work then, won't work now. It is only dividing people more than ever. I've become almost apathetic & indifferent about this entire country since the ban. The reason is that I am beyond angry at how sissified & fascist our country has become. The sheer GALL & arrogance of people to presume to tell private business owners what they can & cannot do with legal activities in their places of business because they don't LIKE it - it was the last straw so to speak, for me.

Our country was built by pioneers & pilgrims. America was known as a free, but tough & rugged country. It was & is comprised of cowboys, farmers, miners, factory workers - people who worked damned hard, and weren't afraid to get their hands dirty. This country worked pretty well until 10 or so years ago, when the nanny state stepped in & decided to sanitize everything. Now, it no longer even resembles the great, free country it once was - the masses have sold it out to Big Pharma & government. We're becoming a nation of pansy asses - God forbid our children get dirty, or are singled 'out' in a game of Tag, or reprimanded by a teacher, or eat fries cooked in beef tallow (which were the best), or see commercials on TV for pre sweetened cereals because mom doesn't have the damned backbone to simply say "NO"; a nation where grown men can't gather over a martini & good cigar in a cigar bar or private club, where women can't meet for dinner & enjoy a couple of hours of feisty companionship & a cigarette after dinner, where employees are monitered & fired for legal activities they do outside of work, or are "fined" if their weight is not within the accepted range. In the last 10 years or so, this country has seen more youth violence than ever in history - and there is more youth on medication than ever in history - I am thinking there's a connection. We are a society that is over medicated because it's become so gullible to the power of suggestion from TV commercials raving about this or that drug - when in reality, this society suffers no different or more ills than the generations preceeding it. The difference is that the generations before were a tougher breed, they COPED. They did not expect the world to be sanitized for them. This has become a generation of rude, badly behaved kids, with no sense of consequenses - because there ARE none, because they removed the rights of teachers to dish any out, and parents are too busy or lazy or complacent to deal with it. God forbid THEIR child did anything wrong. I am furious that the nannys have stripped this country of everything that was good & free & tough. And while the nanny's pat themselves on the back over smoking bans because they think it's a coup for them - they really believe they're succeeding in ensuring they won't DIE - in reality, they are destroying the very fiber that was America. It's all an illusion, because in reality - cooks still ingest more carcinagens grilling their steaks than if they'd smoked a cigarette, miners are still in the mines, crab fishing is still the most dangerous job, car exhaust, household cleansers & the sun are more likely to kill you than shs, factory workers still are exposed to carcinagens daily (over 50,000 daily), artists are still exposing themselves to toxic paints so people can decorate their walls, the news always has some tidbit about another outbreak of E Coli, bird flu, or hoof & mouth (which was created by Merial, which is partners with the ROBERT WOOD FOUNDATION), more medicated people are committing suicide & homicide, the school shootings seem to increase, people are getting sick from inported toothpaste, etc. from China - it's freaking neverending the things that can KILL you. What infuriates me, is that much of this is MAN or GOVT. MADE. What infuriates me, is that up to about 10 years ago, this country was doing far better than it is now, on all counts - and yet, the nanny's don't see it. And they will persist & devour this country till there's nothing left. They've literally rolled out the carpet for everything they don't like, to be banned or highly taxed, in the hopes of eliminating it, so children don't get tempted. I am a wee past 50 yrs old - and when I was a kid, we had the SAME pre sweetened cereals, smoking, trans fat, etc. that we have today. But our parents weren't all whacked out trying to sanitize the world for us. I have a 24 yr old daughter, who was a bit of a firecracker as a teen - and even she worries about this new sanitized, medicated generation of kids that will someday, rule this country. what infuriates me - is that the nannys don't see, or care - that all of this is a ruse to make money for govt. & Big Pharma, and it's working. They don't seem to see or care, that it won't end with tobacco - they'll get their tax money elsewhere if the tobacco money runs low.

Sorry for the rant. In closing - I will only say that as a red blooded, American woman, I want my men to be MEN - and not sissified pansy asses who carry umbrellas walking downtown so they don't get the sun in their faces, who aren't afraid to sit in a bar or restaurant & have a beer next to somebody who's smoking, who doesn't feel they have to sanitize their hands every 5 minutes, who isn't running to doctors for every ache, pain & imagined mental disorder, who can shower & go & not feel they need 3 or more products before they can walk out the door. This has become a nation of wimpy girly men, and women who think & act like old women, and kids who live in front of their tvs & computers with social skills of a box of hammers.

Starling you had someone say that to you at a store.......
FWIW, a friend's wife was pregnant and was buying some of that near beer stuff and someone came up to her and started a lecture. She gave the person quite a piece of her mind I was told.

I had a nanny follow me out of coffee shop down here and did the same kind of parenting.
I laughed and had the guy convinced about the bar business losses before the conversation was finished.
He was so befuddled, he just didn't know what to say.
I didn't offer him a smoke though...it is much too expensive to give them away.

The nannies are making a good bit of society fearful old biddies.
I know what you are saying. The once rugged America has been replaced by a bunch of softies.

I was just stunned, and she was older than me, so I politely listened, & let it go - out of respect for her age, I guess. Contrary to what the antis like to think, most smokers I know ARE polite & well behaved - it seems to be more the antis that are abrasive, rude, & in your face. I guess my head is still spinning that the antis felt that all private businesses had to bend to their wishes - whether that was their business model, or not - the sheer arrogance of that just makes my blood boil. That whole 'for the safety of the employee' crap, was crap. It was asthetics - they didn't like how it smelled. And because of that, businesses are hurting, people are losing their jobs. And this country will never be the same great country my father fought for again.

This whole ban thing has also had a serious trickle down effect on everything we do - we've cut way back on eating out, for spite perhaps, but mainly it just makes my blood boil too much to deal with it. I used to give generously to charities, not now. When they prostituted kids to promote bogus propaganda to push the smoking ban, & when the Stand kids got in my face every night on TV, my knee jerk reaction was that I wanted nothing more to do with giving another dime to any charity that helped kids. The way I see it, smokers are already spending hugely more money than non smokers to help kids via SCHIPS (and much of that money goes to medical expenses for Mexican illegals). The trickle down from that has been, that I just have become resentful of any charity because the govt is already taking huge amounts from me to give to charities I don't approve of. So the other charities do without my help - mostly if it involves kids. My kids never benefited from a single charity or govt funded medical care - we just got stuck with the bills, whether we could afford them or not. As kids, me & my sibs went without medical & dental care most of our lives, because even though my dad was a fireman, the insurance didn't cover it all. So I really don't care anymore about other people's kids. That is an enormous difference in my mindset since Pre smoking ban - pre ban, I gave to anybody who had a hand out. Now I only give to paralyzed vets & firemen. I know of a lot of smokers & people who were against the smoking ban that feel the same way - so charities are getting way less from all of us, if at all.

And yet - the do gooders don't seem to GET, that the mother of that child is more likely to get cancer from the household chemicals she uses to clean the bathroom, or the air from walking outside her front door. I have never been so disillusioned about the sad state this country is headed in. And sadly, I don't see it turning around for the better anytime soon. We're in one of those 80 year puritanical cycles, so possibly in a few decades, it'll come full circle again - but I doubt it will ever be the great country our forefathers created. I fully expect a serious recession within the next 2 years, which will bury it further. While I can't blame the smoking bans entirely for it's demise, it surely is what's pushing it over the edge of no return. One freedom given away & lost, leads to another, and another, until the govt. rules every facet of your lives. Over a year ago on toledotalk we discussed this - and the money trail was posted with links to prove it, and nobody seemed disturbed by it. Since the smoking ban, that money trail has led to even far more disturbing connections - and yet, the antis still don't seem to care. It is so obvious (and proven) that all of this has been a very well thought out coup for the government & Big Pharma - with a few very wealthy, connected judges tossed in tie it neatly up in a big fat bow. Whether it's indifference or ignorance or pure selfishness on the part of the antis, I don't know. Probably a combination. But for the first time in my life, I honestly fear for where this country will be in 20 years.

I swear to god watching Starling, Dark, et al, stay so continuously rabid over legislation passed a year ago is like watching vintage SNL. It's both hilarious, and a little sad, since you know how it's all going to play out.

I'd like to see a study done on this hypothesis:

"More smokers have high blood pressure from ranting and raving like lunatics about the smoking ban than have high blood pressure from the smoking itself."

I see shane is still an ignorant of why we still 'rant' about an unjust law - a law that was passed that strips freedoms of private business owners to allow legal activities if they so CHOOSE, a law THAT is an impingement on the Constitution (look it up). A law that people pushed for NOT for health reasons, but because they didn't like how it smelled. Go take a walk shane, if you don't 'get' it by now, you never will & you're not worth wasting my time on. You're clearly too juvenile & ignorant from living in your bubble to 'get' it, to have known the greatness that this country WAS. You & the other antis don't seem to "GET" why those against the ban are still fighting it. I don't just 'let it go & accept' it when freedoms are so easily stripped. Our forefathers didn't either. For every great stride & law that's passed, somebody fought for it - or fought against it. Rolling over seems to come easy for you shane, so just roll over.

http://tinyurl.com/2msxoa (By Dr. Mercola)

Think people are free in the United States of America? This video
will make you think again. It's a chilling indictment of how the U.S.
government is slowly but steadily dismantling constitutional
protections of your liberties. Even the First Amendment of the U.S.
Constitution -- your right to the freedom of speech -- may be at
risk.

Warning: This video contains images that may not be suitable for
general viewing audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.

One of the most poignant statements in this film is the quote by
American politician Adlai Stevenson in 1952, who over 50 years ago
said:

"The tragedy of our day is the climate of fear in which we live, and
fear breeds repression. Too often, sinister threats to the Bill of
Rights, to the freedom of the mind, are concealed under the patriotic
cloak of anti-communism."

"Today," the narrator continues, "it's the cloak of anti-terrorism."

All too often, it is fear that drives people to accept, without
question, the numerous new threats to your personal freedom. They are
introduced under the guise of protecting you.

This is the case with compulsory vaccinations, increasingly strict
supplement regulations, and even the collection of the federal income
tax.

Many liberties and basic rights are already being threatened, largely
because profits and corporate greed -- not the will of the people --
are now the driving force of the United States. In my opinion they
are your:

Freedom of Association
Freedom of Information
Freedom of Speech
Right to Legal Representation
Freedom From Unreasonable Searches
Whether you agree with the statements made in the video or not,
there's one thing that most all Americans will agree on: the more
that you become silent about important matters, the more your freedom
will get chipped away.

Please, let's not become silent about the freedoms, health-based and
otherwise, that the United States was founded on. This Web site is an
open forum for you to express your beliefs, and pass on important
information to your friends and loved ones.

In 1952 Adlai Stevenson also said:

"It is far easier to fight for principles than to live up to them."

I've read several articles about Black Market cigarettes since the bans - it's already repeating the history of Prohibition. The most recent Canadian concern seems to be that 40 percent of all cigarettes Canadians smoke are black market. They are shooting each other in Canada over cigarettes. And of course, the mob will move into grab the action. History is indeed going to repeat itself...and it will be years, I'm sure, before they realize Prohibition doesn't work - again.

you are correct-the gubbamint makes more off tobacco than the manufacturers do. This article is pure BS, for two reasons-RYO, as Star said, PLUS-the good old black market. Think I read a few weeks ago that a minimum of 1/3 of the smokes coming into New York are illegal. Canada raised their taxes on tobacco out of sight-worse than ours. A few years ago, a Canadian Mountie was blown away by cigarette smugglers. The government lowered the taxes due to a public outrage. You know, The Law of Unintended Consequences, and all that.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Cancer has a delay time. It takes years of smoking to produce problems. Hence, if every smoker stopped smoking today, and nobody smoked for the next 50 years, cancer rates would probably rise for the next 30 years before dropping off. Of course, there are many other factors I'm ignorant about, since cancer rates have other dependencies.

that post by you before Musicians' was the finest I have ever seen by you. I know a very lovely and sexy woman who was with her 9-year old Daughter in a restaurant about 4 years ago, after they finished their meal, she was in the smoking section, so lit up a cigarette. Some slimeball rabid smoker-hater Nazi came up to her table and said to her she was a child molester, and her Daughter would have been better off being aborted than having a smoker for a Mother. He said this right in front of the kid. She gave him a piece of her mind, and screamed so loud, everyone in the place heard her. I told her had I been there, the son of a bitch would have worn my coffee for saying something like that. It went too far at least five years ago. It's to the point where most american sheep are so brainwashed and filled with hatred, they think if they set down next to a smoker, they're going to be exposed to the equivalent of a trainwreck spewing forth 50,000 tons of its cargo of toxic chemicals.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

*

Star:

"More rabid smoker-haters have high blood pressure from ranting and raving like lunatics about smokers than have high blood pressure from anything else."

Fixed it.

And no one can predict how 'things will play out' because it took years to overturn prohibition of alcohol.

----------------------

BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!

_________________
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq.Why don't we give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, and we're not using it any more".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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