Stagnant revenue puts city budget in choppy waters - Wage, pension givebacks hinted
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070304/NEWS16/70304002
"Mayor Carty Finkbeiner awarded generous pension benefits to the police and fire unions, spent money to light up the street in front of Government Center downtown and install a shower in his office, and built a $5.8 million boat basin in the Marina District."
And gee this pearl from the City Council President;
"We've seen a slow but steady decline in population over the years, and I think we've made the mistake of trying to provide the same amount of service for 350,000 people when we've only got 300,000 -Toledo City Council President Rob Ludeman
But yet Ludeman said;
"At least one official contacted by The Blade, Toledo Council President Rob Ludeman, questioned the accuracy of the Census estimate for the city. As a Realtor, he said he thinks he would have noticed an exodus of more than 27,000 people from the city since 2000. "That would have left gaping holes in parts of the city and I haven't seen it," Mr. Ludeman said. "I'd have to see their data and how they came up with that. It just doesn't seem right to me.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/NEWS16/608160...
But wait there's more! - "Mayor Carty Finkbeiner alternated between casting doubt on the accuracy of a new U.S. Census estimate that lowers Toledo's population and shrugging it off as unimportant. The mayor ticked off the list of Toledo advantages - such as abundant water and the Toledo Museum of Art - and said that quality of life, not population, is what makes a city great. "If that were the case, Detroit would be a better city to live in than Toledo," Mr. Finkbeiner said yesterday. "Toledo is a city with an excellent quality of life."
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060817/NEWS16/608170376&SearchID=73273945677254\r\n\r\nThe excellent quality of life surely cannot be the reason for the boarded up and vacant houses in our neighborhoods and the vacant and empty malls and businesses leaving like the former Bob Evans on Alexis that is now closed.
Before the Captain runs the ship aground I hope sees the land before we hit it.
...the Bob Evans on Alexis...
When they came before the Plan Commission for the new one next to Alexis/Benore intersection, I asked what would happen to the old one across from Northtowne...They assured the Plan Commission staff that both were going to stay open - yeah...right!
Ms. Thurber you know as well as the rest of us that a business will do what a business has to do to remain in business and what is said in meetings in the end is usually not the case years the road.
If we had more development, like the North Towne Mall, then we would have more people come to Toledo and shop, spend and live here.
But the mall sits empty for how many years?
But there are signs up that state that some redevelopment is to take place, when who knows...will the redevelopment take place...who knows.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
Good choice. Beam ME up Scotty. I think with what is going on in the city and county that would be a good call. I don't see any more "redshirts", which means they are coming after us now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(character)
... of Southwyck still sways from Carty's neck in the buffeting wind created by the gaping volumes of hot air gushing from his mouth. It's only a matter of time before he notices it tumbling about, and brings the topic up again.
Why am I doting on Southwyck? Because as Toledo's population shrinks (and provably so, despite Ludeman's deep and disturbing denial) then there's no point in creating YET ANOTHER GigantiMall.
Toledo's loss of population, combined with overall economic collapse, also demonstrate that we should not be concerned whatsoever about Northtowne. That particular mall is dead and will remain so. It was right for the owners to seek rezoning and then to try to court light manufacturers. It's the responsibility of government to not stand in the way of such a reasonable change in the use of land. However, Northtowne still stands mostly underused and I have given up on expecting any light manufacturing to actually take place there. There is a LOT of similarly-zoned land around Toledo that would do just as well. This creates too much competition for the owners of Northtowne to offer anything sensible to prospective tenants, other than a loss-leading thing that should strike prospective tenants as too unstable to bank on.
I hear a lot of stories about prospects for Toledo business, but as time drags on, 99% of these turn out to be bullshit no matter how secure my sources are. There's a reason for this, and it has to do with MONEY. In particular, there's NO MONEY for all these plans. Sure, the money does exist, but there are very few people who would see it as wise in spending it in Toledo. I see all this quite clearly in the post-90s "retrospectacle". Around that time, legions of investors asked themselves what they could do with their money:
It just dawned on me that there are, or were, two Bob Evans on Alexis.
The closed location I refer to is the location across from Northtown
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
I know of no business that provides its employees with 100% health benefits. What makes the city of Toledo believe it should provide for full coverage of its employees? Is this just another example of "our town" mentality that lives in La La Land?
Let's get real and operate the business of the people in a prudent fashion. If the employees paid 10% of their medical premiums the city could save one to two million in operational costs.
You can't expect to ask the tax payers, who are leaving the city in the thousands) to cough up more money so city workers won't have to contribute like the rest of us toward their health costs.
I know of no business that provides its employees with 100% health benefits. What makes the city of Toledo believe it should provide for full coverage of its employees? Is this just another example of "our town" mentality that lives in La La Land?
Let's get real and operate the business of the people in a prudent fashion. If the employees paid 10% of their medical premiums the city could save one to two million in operational costs.
You can't expect to ask the tax payers, who are leaving the city in the thousands) to cough up more money so city workers wont have to contribute like the rest of us toward their health costs.
If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.
But Bill don't you know that the unions won't allow the employees to have to contribute to their medical coverage. Any candidate that goes against what the union says doesn't get the words "endorsed democrat" on their campaign sign and that means you probably won't get elected. Barring that the Blade A) doesn't endorse you or B) they don't run a front page smear campaign against you regardless of their endorsement.
MikeyA
MikeyA
Have you driven around downtown in the last year? The amount of vacancies is remarkable. Unbelievable. You can go down whole blocks in some instances and not see a business.
I am down there quite a bit but I had my neighbor with me - for that Westhaven hearing in December. He pointed down into a block and remarked that such and such a business was gone, and wanted to ride by. The whole block was empty. So we drove around the blocks. After a few turns - we both fell absolutely silent. It's a shocking thing to see. And I hadn't noticed how many businesses are empty before - not the total picture like that. Like a ghost town almost - or a movie set with the boarded up windows and doors - the real estate signs everywhere.
My neighbor is 82 and was born here, lived in the area all of his life. He's talking about moving out of Toledo now....
If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.
Yes, matter of fact I attended a training class at one of the hotels downtown and it was amazing the number of vacant buildings in the general area and it really amazed me when the City Council President made the comment; "That would have left gaping holes in parts of the city and I haven't seen it," Mr. Ludeman said."
He needs to look around a little bit more.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
around the downtown area when he next at a Council meeting. Matter of fact, I'd like to see it a mandatory event. That our city and county leaders have to view the community on a regular basis.
Sigh, that and two dollars will get me a cup of coffee...
If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.
The mayor has a van or a bus trip once every two weeks -- except when there is snow on the ground.
There are a number of city officials aboard who take notes on various problem areas.
I was on that one as we toured the north end. The media followed us and reported it on television.
Been through the south end too -- at least twice. We never tour the nice neighborhoods.
There's nothing you can tell me about Woodville and Oak. I drive through there every morning and live pretty close to it.
I make $78,000 a year.
"There's nothing you can tell me about Woodville and Oak. I drive through there every morning and live pretty close to it."
So what are we doing? Driving around and looking at it and then? What?
These neighborhoods did not get like this overnight and they will not improve overnight nor will signs telling us we have pride do much for us.
Concrete plans and actions will.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
we have a basic misunderstanding here. People want to know that the administration has some comprehension of the condition of the city as it actually is.
I'm happy for your income - don't see how it relates to the discussion at hand - but I am always happy to see someone making good money at the public trough.
So, tell me, are you earning it? What did you do today, to make Toledo better?
If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.
What did I do today to make Toledo better?
Each month, top city administrators have to turn in a minimum of 20 "Call City Hall" slips a month that denote a problem. This can be something as major as a junk vehicle or something as small as a street light out.
This can be a challenge in the winter when the days are short and snow covers the ground.
However, since I drive down Woodville Road every day, I try to spot the problems so I can make my quota.
That should be easy to and no wonder you wanted me to send you the complaints that I see and report so you could add them to your list.
No cheating, Mr. Schwartz, there are enough of the call slips to go around and I send more than 20 a month with out even trying.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
Brian, you said Oak and woodville is a project of yours, thats good but you should take a look at miami between fasset and oregon (by the e-way) it could use some attention as well as oakdale.
Maybe you have an issue with the number of calls they turn in - but the concept is solid.
Brian - can you tell me anything else that is going on, in City Hall - like this initiative?
And does this make you think that maybe the public is some kind of info vacuum regarding what the Mayor is working on, what his agenda is?
If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.
"However, you and others here smelled red meat as soon as you saw Mr. Schwartz here and attacking somebody is not better communication."
I like a good steak like a lot of people but I was not attacking Mr. Schwartz for seeking complaints to be sent directly to him from me, no I was merely stating what he did.
Mr. Schwartz is not as thin skinned to take it personally as it is nothing personal and I do not know him, but, none the less a citizen does have a right to speak out.
"In my opinion, this community and perhaps even the whole city can benefit from a direct line of communication between "Community Outrage" websites like this one and the Mayors office."
Yes, indeed this has been discussed.
"In my opinion, if I were Mr. Schwartz, I would probably decide that being flamed by a cadre of Carty-Haters is not how I'd like to spend my time."
Why is that when someone speaks out about the policies or lack of action, the word "hate" is used?
I do not hate anyone and speaking out about governments is one of the corner stones of our country.
There is no flame war.
I have direct and clear lines of communication between the Mayor's office and the Neighborhoods Department, now, but that took about a year to develop.
Welcome to the community.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
I did serve as an elected official in New England.
"..and I'm the only one on this board who can say that I've been where he is..."
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
please call me maggie. And if I recall correctly, Northtowne had a zoning change and can now support light industrial rather than just commercial/retail. The last I heard, the new owners were working on development.
As for the Bob Evans, I don't mind that they wanted to be closer to the expressway...it makes perfect business sense to me...
"At least one official contacted by The Blade, Toledo Council President Rob Ludeman, questioned the accuracy of the Census estimate for the city. As a Realtor, he said he thinks he would have noticed an exodus of more than 27,000 people from the city since 2000.
"That would have left gaping holes in parts of the city and I haven't seen it," Mr. Ludeman said. "I'd have to see their data and how they came up with that. It just doesn't seem right to me."
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/NEWS16/608160...
This quotation was from August 2006 and Ludeman at the time did not accept the decline in population and should have seen the impending impact the decline would be making at budget, especially in light of the loss of jobs and citizens leaving that would translate into the lower than expected revenue for the city.
No instead he and the Mayor doubted the census and now reality has set in and it is crunch time for the budget.
Here's an idea for the Government Center Staff; pay attention to what is going on and stop being resistant to change.
All Mr. Ludamen needs to do is drive through the neighborhoods and look at the boarded up and vacant house and then maybe he will see that are problems.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
I live downtown and thusly I spend quite a bit of time there. In all honesty, I think you're using a bit of hyperbole to make your point.
No, downtown is not a bustling urban village.
But it's better than it's been in 20 years.
New restaurants are opening. Existing ones are doing well. Retail is a little light but I can still go grocery shopping and purchase normal convienances without leaving the neighborhood.
During the winter months, after 7:00 or so, the place gets pretty sparse. But that's to be expected. Even today there is a relatively small number of people living downtown compared to its size.
And then? What?
These are the very same people that see the same boarded up buildings and vacant houses and then what?
What plans are there for the city to improve the conditions, that bring in revenue as so far most every thing that has talked about has failed.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
It has been common practice for me to submit the same locations week after week after week to the Neighborhoods Department before the offender does something.
And what is being done to improve the economic outlook for the city, besides the new arena?
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
Asking others to forward to them the complaints is not.
It almost seems like that people may not want to look and then ask people who submit the complaints to pad the number mandated to be turned in.
It took quite some time to get to the point where the Call City Hall complaints would be responded too.
I had a few e-mail go 'rounds with the staff of the Neighborhoods Department to realize that proactive enforcement is needed and not reactive action.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
...I don't think anyone on here knew that...but I shouldn't have assumed that I was the only elected official...
:)
That's because Toledo's downtown suffered an economic collapse 20 years ago. You may as well say you're doing better now since your long-term leprosy was cured. You're still missing too much flesh from your years under the disease.
The 1970s economic collapse and subsequent White Flight to the suburbs (and now its continuance into the exoburbs) simply destroyed downtown Toledo (which had been taken down a peg or two from the 1940s, since the use of cars and the destruction of public transit decimated downtown densities with car lots). There's little point in pretending that things are so much better in downtown now, since recovering anything there has cost a princely sum in subsidies. The effects of all this corporate welfare have yet to play out. For example, Toledo is on the hook for yet another defaulted loan or bond issue related to yet another housing project downtown, and the city will be making payments to cover that default until 2027. This is NOT a recovery in progress; it's only a subsidy-covered degradation that still has nothing supporting it that could be called rational and sustainable.
Your "grocery shopping" comment is worrisome. There's no affordable market downtown. The one on Huron St. is quite overpriced ... and frankly disturbing since it's fairly obvious to my fiscal senses that some subsidy is operating behind the scenes there. I could be wrong, but I just don't understand otherwise how she makes her rent and utility payments on selling what she does.
I'm just curious, what are you trying to accomplish by jumping up and down on the only city official who posts on this website?
Yes, government should be held accountable, but do you think that's what you're doing? By taking the city Spokesman to task on how many call slips he fills out?
All you're doing is ensuring that people in the know will think twice about showing their face around here.
You bitch about things like vacant houses. How do you propose such problems be fixed? This is a large city. All large cities have vacant houses. Period.
There is a finite budget. You complain on one hand about cuts the city is making, but you deride Mr. Schwartz for not spending enough city money to "clean up" neighborhoods.
Why don't you organize a non-profit to raise money and donate time and labor to tear down the houses in the neighborhood? Maybe work with council to have the city come in with the bulldozers and tear them down with your non-prof coming in and doing the cleanup work. Etc.
In truth, you being rude and outlandish is not helping anything. It doesn't help the city. It doesn't help out citizens. It doesn't help this website.
I did not mention as it is really not all that important to a point.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
First, in regard to the grocery shopping, it's certainly not a supermarket. But as far as I know it's not subsidized. While the store is never packed, it does get a pretty steady stream of patrons.
I would love to see a Whole Foods at the Erie Street Market. That would both save the Market and save residents like myself from having to drive to Point Place or Oregon for a full service supermarket.
However, living alone, Monats really isn't so bad. And if nothing else it's ridiculously convenient.
Second, I fail to see your point. On one hand, you're beating up on the CBD, on the other hand, you're beating up on efforts to reform/recover the CBD. Like anything there is a chicken/egg problem. People don't want to live where there are no stores or restaurants, and people don't want to open stores or restaurants where nobody lives. So Government has primed the pump. And it's worked decently well so far.
Perhaps the government should be more selective about who and what it "co-signs" but the fact is that despite your leprosy analogy, downtown today is really an enjoyable place for me to live and be.
If nothing else, I probably have more food delivery options than anywhere else in the city =)
Well, first what am I trying to accomplish, better communication between the city and it's citizens.
Yes, as you correctly point that cities do have vacant and boarded up houses and yes that is nothing new, but what is the city doing about it?
We do not get answers or have we?
"By taking the city Spokesman to task on how many call slips he fills out?"
I did take him to task for the slips he fills out, but he asked me to send my complaints to him and I am not doing that and it makes me wonder the dedication by the staff to follow up on what the Mayor says to do.
"...but you deride Mr. Schwartz for not spending enough city money to "clean up" neighborhoods." Mr. Schwartz is not the person who decides what is spent on what, he is the Mayor's spokesperson.
And you are not aware of what conversations I have with city leaders are you?
"You bitch about things like vacant houses. How do you propose such problems be fixed?"
Economic development, more businesses come to town, more employers, and so on and so forth.
"In truth, you being rude and outlandish is not helping anything. It doesn't help the city. It doesn't help out citizens. It doesn't help this website."
And these types of commentary we are free to engage in.
Best regards
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
Better communication is a laudable goal. I agree with you 100%.
However, you and others here smelled red meat as soon as you saw Mr. Schwartz here and attacking somebody is not better communication.
In my opinion, this community and perhaps even the whole city can benefit from a direct line of communication between "Community Outrage" websites like this one and the Mayors office.
In my opinion, if I were Mr. Schwartz, I would probably decide that being flamed by a cadre of Carty-Haters is not how I'd like to spend my time.
You're certainly free to say what you want. But there's a lot more virtue--and a lot more respect--in being the guy that can set aside differences to solve problems than to be the guy that wins the tactics (A flame war with a city employee) at the expense of the strategy.
......I think your response to this thread, ShaneH, is (on a scale of 1-10) a nine when it should be a 5.
I didn't see anyone here "being flamed by a cadre of Carty-Haters." What I did see was a person who's paid to speak on behalf of the mayor and to do such outreach and communication responding to legitimate concerns about what people perceive to be a lack of communication and response to problems in the city.
I saw people, with a bit of criticism, raising legitimate issues - and expecting comprehensive answers (not just political ones).
Brian - and the city administration - need to know and understand that many people are not happy with what they see being done - or not done. However, dealing with unhappy or frustrated constituents goes with the territory of being an elected official or being the spokesman for one.
Just remember...sometimes it's not the complainer being 'negative' as much as it is the contination of a situation being unacceptable.
ps - I'm not a carty-hater. I agree with him on as many points as I disagree with him...and I'm the only one on this board who can say that I've been where he is and the criticism of his actions/decisions - through his spokesman - is not out of line.