Perlean Fired because of Reinbolt?

Tom Kroma is not related to Bob Reinbolt i repeat not related in any way

BS - My Godson and Goddaughter are not related to me by blood, but there is CERTAINLY a relationship there - ie, related.

And here I would have thought it was related to the recent news story that reported a city-confiscated vehicle was parked outside of her house in the afternoon or the fact that her department should have been eliminated because it's really a function of HR anyways. My mistake.

Look at the upside, though. The police are probably going to get a Mercury Mountaineer and the city might be able to keep a few pools open with her compensation package.

---------
"When I say your dumb name, please stand up briefly, but then quickly drop to your knees and forsake all others before me." -Ignignokt

So is Tom Kroma an outside contractor, or does he work for the city? Perlean got fired because (according to her) she ruled against the tide in a discriminatory complaint against Tom.

My company employs many more people than the city does, and yes, this type of issue would fall under the umbrella of HR - as does our diversity committee.

As far as dealing with outside contractors? NO, that's not an HR function, but neither should it be a function of any Affirmative Action committee - as it is now.

The AA committee during the last administration, stopped doing business locally with the Andersons because they werent black enough. This is BS in my opinion.

If Perlean was fired because of the Kroma incident, that's plain wrong and she should fight - but do we need the AA committee? Nope. That type issue SHOULD be handled by HR, and the dealing with outside contractors should be put where that belongs as well.

We need intelligent and trained purchasing people on board to make decisions as to where the city spends its money. We're not cash rich enough to blow off viable local businesses because someone on some committee doesnt think the local business's hiring practices fits within their acceptable 'window'.

So should Perlean be fired? Not necessarily (the circumstances of that arent for sure) - we do need good, smart, well educated people like her on board. I happen to feel she'd make a fine councilperson, or fill a valuable spot in HR.

Do we need the AA committee? Nope.

Ah, the joys of nepotism. This is what happens when we rely too heavily on family, friends and acquaintances to fill municipal positions.

And yes - anyone close enough to accept the role of godfather or godmother is "family" in my book.

Some companies work very hard to reduce these problems. Years ago I got turned down for a full-time job at UPS because my brother works for the company. In another state.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051220/NEWS16/512200...

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

who works for the city. This sounds retaliatory to me after listening to the interview.

Godson, there is no one closer to a child other than the parents, than a Godparent.

Alex I will take Nepotism for $400.00, Please

FYI. Carty will be on "Toledo Today" WTOD 1560, at 8:20 or so Thursday morning and will be asked to comment on the situation.

Sounds like there's more to this mess... the Blade's article today reports that Griffin was fired because of "her refusal to support his downgrading of the office." The article also states:

"Mr. Finkbeiner, in a letter to Ms. Griffin, said he valued her as an employee and personal friend for many years, but 'in recent days, you have indicated an unwillingness to support key initiatives of my administration. In fact, you have even refused to meet with me and key members of my staff regarding recent issues.'

The mayor's letter invited Ms. Griffin to resign by 4 p.m. yesterday, implying failure to do so would result in her firing."

HOWEVER... the mayor reportedly sent a press release (to only WSPD or to all media outlets, that I'm not clear on) stating Griffin was let go due to budget cuts and elimination of her position. He said it had nothing to due with her job performance. But yet at the end of the statement he said that the search for her permanent replacement will be underway.

Now that makes no sense at all. Did the mayor fire off the press release in haste and not think about how contradictory it sounded? If she wasn't let go due to her behavior or opinions, then why are they looking for a replacement? And why did the Blade report that?

Very interesting indeed...

Fred said it. Now I will say it and maybe everybody will understand and I am forced to compliment Fred on the fact that he read Bob's email today on the air without sarcasm or any other negative connotations.

Bob Reinbolt is NOT Tom Kroma's Godfather. They did not know each other prior to city employment.

Perlean refused to be reassigned to the H.R. department. Every other major city in Ohio has AA under HR. The thing with Kroma is a smokescreen.

Contract Compliance will be in the Finance Department.

Westsider, allow me to clarify. . .

Perlean was a Director. Her position as a Director was eliminated. She was offered a position as a Commissioner in the H.R. department where she would have continued to oversee A.A. However, she did not want to do that.

In the Truth from the Glass City Jungle
http://www.thetruthtoledo.com/story/2007/Mar07-07/AADirector.htm

http://glasscityjungle.com/wordpress/?p=1031

Toledoblade.com article

http://www.nbc24.com/Global/story.asp?S=6192916

Eh, haha, its' funny how easy and quick it is for everyone to criticize, but when their wrong...nope...can't admit that.

Having listened to the podcast with Griffin was that she stated that she will be filing a claim against the city and that two people were allegedly in some investigation for some unnamed problem in the Neighborhoods Department and a result the city retaliated against her.

Now, Kroma was temporarily a mayoral aide and an underling in the department was made acting director and now Kroma is back as the director of the department.

There could be more to the story that what meets the eyes and ears.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

"But she was really fired, she claimed, as "retaliation because I ruled probable cause on a discrimination complaint [against city administrator] Tom Kroma" and others.

Long story short: Affirmative action ruled there were grounds for city building inspector Pat King-Taylor's discrimination complaints against Mr. Kroma and manager Sue Frederick."

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070308/COLUMNIST03/7...

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

He is the permanent Assistant Chief of Staff.

He has not resumed his duties in Neighborhoods.

The acting Director of Neighborhoods is Kattie Bond.

Brian, may i ask why an assistant cheif of staff is needed? What exactly does he do?

Brian, may i ask why an assistant cheif of staff is needed? What exactly does he do?

And how much does he make? Sounds like FAT. Get out the AX Carty!

Since were closing pools down and also since the mayor needed a new bathroom why don't we allow kids to "cool off" in the mayor's shower for a small fee. It would at least justify the 10 grand.

Brian Schwarts to the children: "Welcome kids to the Carleton Finkbeiner Super Water Fun Park the line forms to the left."

MikeyA

that when cuts are made you start right at the top. Just why is there an asst. chief of staff? I would think all those directors could easily report to the chief of staff. Just what does the assistant do?

Leadership starts by example - even our kids won't listen to us if we tell them to do one thing and then we act in a way that says we don't believe what we just said.

Brian - just how much is the mayor's budget been cut and where? And while you are at it, make sure you add in those that have been added to the budget. What was the budget for the mayor's office for the last two years and what is the proposed budget?

Carty cut 10 positions in the mayor's office. He made his cuts first to demonstrate to other department heads that he was willing to do it.

We started with Directors, commissioenrs, and managers when we made our personnel cuts.

The asst COS (there are two)split oversight of various departments.

Dave Moebius oversees Fire, police, Law IT, and budget as well as legislation. Tom Kroma oversees Neighborhoods, Public Service, and Public Utilities.

both report to the chief of staff.

Which positions were cut?

And the sum outcome would be 8 if there were two new people added, if my math is correct, Moebius and Kroma.

And that also means that these two people over see departments with an acting director and a director in the Law department, who was made a permanent director?

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

you may not have it. If that is the case - state it as so.

I'm appreciative of the fact that you are posting here. Other than Maggie Thurber, Robert Torres and Darlene Fisher - I am not aware of any other politicians or staff that are willing to do so.

Obviously you are getting push back. I will say that I think it is deserved. BUT if you are now of a mind to communicate - I will listen. It would take time and effort - but the lack of communication out of the Mayors' office could be turned around. It's just that it's so insulting to have such a newly appointed official be so obviously uninterested with talking to his constituency.

We are hammered. HAMMERED, I tell ya' with top heavy, administrative, tax collecting, levy hollerin' politicians.

What we want to know is if you are considering cutting direct services, (pools), are there an equal amount of cuts being made in the administration?

I'm sorry to say, but I have to ask, if you close the pools - will you be keeping the pool supervisor? This is the way we are thinking.

If Perlean is going to file a complaint and telling a story about people coming, unannounced, into her office talking about her resignation or........

It is a HUGE trust issue. Communication is the cure.

if they are Catholic. There is a central file kept on those matters. It's ironic - but it is a matter of public record.

Other than that - it depends on the Synod, Chapter or who knows what they have going on as far as registered tax shelters goes :-)

Not commenting on the current Godfather issue - but in general.

If there is a relationship of a Godfather to a Godson, (note the whole 'God' theme here? This is very important to the chosen), there should be an enduring record of the naming of the Godfather.

And it would be a huge 'no-no' for the Godfather to deny such a relationship.

it is extremely unlikely that she was truly aware that Kroma was Reinbolt's Godson.

Dissecting and removing the oppositional:

Turns into: it is extremely likely that she was truly aware that Kroma was Reinbolt's Godson.

Can you help any of us poor, lowly, uninformed idiots understand what the hell is going on?

Well, for me, I did not know about the Kroma, Fredericks problem till it was reported by Griffin. The alleged family connection is of no consequence to me and when I listened to the pod cast the case of alleged harrassment/discrimination caught my ear.

"...Regardless of how Ms. Griffin felt about Kroma and Frederick's being fired..."

They were fired, really?

If that is true and there is an alleged discrimination case out there that is allegedly being investigated then it adds another layer of doubt in my mind as to why a person who was allegedly fired then be hired by the mayor.

You are right it is/was a very minor budget issue that may now morph into an issue of trust.

So does anyone know if either Kroma or Frederik was fired? I had written to Frederick about a matter and I have received no response from her which is unusual as she was very prompt in replying but not so unusual is the network troubles at Government Center.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Neither Tom Kroma nor Sue Frederick were ever fired. Sue still works in Neighborhoods and Tom has been promoted.

Steve Flagg: I can't provide exact figures today. David Moebius is the guy who I would go to for those and he is out yesterday and today. I should be able to post them Monday.

Keep in mind that this mayor includes the economic development staff under his auspices, so he has the executive office of mayor and economic development under him.

Some of the positions that were eliminated include:

P.I.O. (the talented Executive Officer is holding down that position)

ED secretary

P.I.O. secretary

One Co-Director of the youth commission.

2 Mayors assistants.

I have a copy of the Wed. Mar 7 edition and this is the front page story. It's quite a different story than we are hearing here.

They're online at www.thetoledojournal.com

Willie Perryman is a manager in Neighborhoods.

Kattie Bond is the Acting Director.

Many of the vacant positions that were eliminated were funded -- including the P.I.O. Even though nobody was receiving pay for those positions, money in the budget was encumbered to fund the positions.

So, eliminating unfilled positions saves money. The budget deficit is not based on actual cash flow. It is based on projected revenues and expenses. We reduced projected expenditures by eliminating those positions.

Okay, I

the one that did good work in the office? yeah, that's what I thought.

Also, why in the world did they have to hire someone (the guy related by marriage to Reinbolt, I have that right don't I? So hard to keep track) to oversee sports? Wouldn't that be a function of the YOUTH COMMISSIONER? I'd say one of them could do that job... especially the one that actually had experience in dealing with youth sports.

The mayor really bumped his head on that decision.

Anyone want to wager how many lawsuits are going to spring forth in this debacle?

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/DEVELOPIN...

http://www.thetruthtoledo.com/story/2007/Mar07-07/AADirectorFired.htm

http://www.thetoledojournal.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=76646&sI...

http://www.nbc24.com/Global/story.asp?S=6206996

http://www.foxtoledo.com/dsp_story.cfm?storyid=79001&RequestTimeout=500

He is running the 22nd floor like a plantation

It was probably because of my suburban, mostly white school district that I didn't learn in history class that plantation slaves got full medical benefits and received a pension when they retired. My history textbook also must have ignored the slaves' right to bring charges against their masters when they were sold to a different plantation. But I am pretty sure of one thing: Slaves weren\'t paid ~$3500 ($77k in 1860 adjusted for inflation) a year for their services. In fact, I think they were paid somewhere below $.01 for their services on plantations.

See, this is why I could never run for office. Someone would say something stupid like this and I'd not hold my tongue. Well, that and my many, many felonies.

But your analogies leave me with a dropped jaw. It is white people like you who give other white people a bad name.

Because the institution of slavery was so dehumanizing and culturally damaging, it is to me (a descendent of slaves)not a laughing matter or a reason to joke. Thus my jaw dropping. The commentary just was not funny to me. I am sure it is a cultural thing.

Check this book out at the library, "Without Sanctuary." Then maybe you will get a glimpse of why I dropped my jaw in response to the "ludicris" statements.

People who have to speak for a living will eventually put their foot in their mouths.

I used to use the word 'Nazi' to describe people in positions of power with Authoritarian Personality Complex. It is a frustrating thing to experience abuse at the hands of those people and witness people abuse the very people they were trusted to be an authority over.

I had a talk with a Nazi Germany survivor and I quit doing that. It will never be as real to me as it is to her - but I don't have a tattoo on my arm, or the memories of my mother walking down one line and I down another. This ladies' mothers' line never arrived in the sleeping quarters.

But I know that she said how badly it hurt her to hear that word thrown around. Like what happened to her was a common place thing and belonged in common place language.

I think references to slavery are also hurtful.

History is real and we ought to at least be aware of it.

"Mayor Finkbeiner said he has

Well neighborhood concerns, there are the number of public meetings being held by council to voice your opinions. Thats when you get to voice your opinion.

Handbandanna:

I really do not know if you are white, that is the beauty of the internet. For all I know you could be Kanye West.

But the comment "$.01 for their services on plantations" and the other statements made
are offensive statements, whether meant sarcastically, ludicrously or just to make a point.

Slavery was an savage institution and "services" were not rendered by slaves. The slave trade was in existence for over 400 years and anyone who knows the history of the Middle Passage would not make light of it.

As far as what Martin Luther King said, we are not at that day and surely we are not at that day in Toledo,Ohio where his children would be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

By comparing the mayor to a plantation owner Ms. Griffin pointed out a character flaw which did not lessen the hardships of slavery.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary racism is defined as
"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race."

Ms. Griffin did not practice racism in her statement. Her statement was derived from what she feels are legitimate concerns she has about the Mayor and how it relates to or affects black people. I doubt if this statement was derived from one single, incident concerning the mayor.

No, my comments are not racist. What comment are you referring to?

And you are making the assumption this person is a dude based on what?

As I stated, this is the beauty of the internet, he could be Kanye West or Beyonce for all I know!

I wouldn't wouldn't want to list these unhealthy relationships out for you in a public venue, after all Mr. Finkibeiner is the mayor and deserves some modicum of respect, I think.

But if you would like I will e-mail you my list of unheathy relationships with black people that Mayor Finkbeiner has exhibited in this present term of office, as seen through my eyes.

As far as how I interpreted the "gorilla" comment has no bearing on how it was meant and how it was taken. The mayor referred to Chief Bell as being strong as a gorilla or some nonsence and Chief Bell said he was not offended.

Calling a racist a racist is not a heavy charge, it is what it is.

I am not basing my comments on Perlean's situation. I am basing my comments on interactions I and other blacks, that I know well, have had with the mayor, that to me are clearly racist or if you can't wrap your mind around that word then you would at least have to admit that the mayor has unhealthy relationships with black people.

I supported Carty in this last election (just like Perlean)because of what he said to me, personally, what his values and morals were and how they related to his black constituency, etc. At that time I knew that he had a few flaws but I attributed them to his not being in touch with the black population and he was willing to change and learn and "get results."

My "damn good" reason as to why I think this happened because Perlean is black is non existent because I did not say that it happened because Perlean is black. You must have me mixed up with another black person.

I hope I have answered some of your questions.

Actually the institution of slavery as practiced in "America" which is what I was referring to, existed for over 400 years and did not cross all levels of race and ethnicity. It began in Africa by the kidnapping of peaceful Africans by white people who packed boats with humans and crossed the Atlantic to America where the Africans were stripped of their culture, family, language and religion. They were then put to work on plantations to pick cotton and build the nation we now live in.

Once again you are trying to minimize the institution of slavery as practiced in America.

Your Comment:

"and there was no need for slavery until the mid to late 1600s when tobbaco and textiles"

is abhorrent.

Why would there ever be a need for slavery?

I would never try to lecture or patronize someone whose Internet name is tpsteacher24.

The slavery issue and Black History is such a hot topic and we will never agree because you come from your colored glasses view and I come from mine. So rather than get real ugly with you I call this to a halt.

"When lions become historians, hunters will cease being heroes."

Oh, and why would I need to specify which slavery I was talking about. It wouldn't be Spanish, Norwegein or Dutch slavery when we are talking about Perlean Griffin and a comment she made about the plantation in Toledo, Ohio.

while you may have a difference of opinion with purnhrt, teacher - and I've agreed with you on many things - but I disagree with you here.

Are you saying that you are in a position to decide what should or should not offend another person? Don't people have a right to their own opinions?

And secondly - you are assigning her HOMEWORK because she didn't fall in line with your thinking ?!!!

:-)

Rethink, restate (? - because to me - this sure doesn't sound like you.)

I'd like an email as to what leads you to believe the mayor is a racist, while running Toledo like a plantation.

But if the reasons you believe Carty is racist are true, post them out here - the rest of us would be interested.

I for one think Carty's doing a piss-poor job. The man promised results that Im not seeing. In fact Im seeing him actually HINDER progress on occasion, but to give credit where credit is due, I have not seen him show racism, and I'd like to hear where you think he's shown it.

As far as the 'gorilla' comment, Im a big guy, and have been called a big gorrilla any number of times - it's a size reference and nothing more. Further, any time Ive been called a 'big gorilla' it was used as a term of endearment - as I believe it was used by Carty to Cheif Bell.

I remember a lot of mud slinging both ways during the last mayoral election, but none of it racist.

Please elaborate on your comments - the fact that you only want to give them privately does make one go 'hmmm...'

to come

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner

When I use the words "unhealthy relationships with black prople" versus racist why is it that the remark made to Chief Bell rings a bell? (no pun intended)

I guess the question is, if you happen upon - oh - say 9 lazy people and only one gets fired.....that makes you go...hmmmmmmm.

Y'know?

If you say you aren't dismantling a department, what you ARE doing is letting almost all of the staff go and then merging the remaining one or two people into a different department - isn't that department still gone? Another hmmmmmm......

Just makes you stop and wonder about motives.

The comment:

"If both blacks & whites are fired or laid off, and the blacks claim discrimination, that they were fired for being black - does that also mean that the white people can claim discrimination because....they are white?"

Discrimination is very hard to prove. But you know in your gut when it happens. Have you ever had something happen to you that you KNEW happened only because you were white? (if you are white)

Your comment

"Getting all up in arms about the Bell remark is a bullshit response."

I did not get "all up in arms" about the Bell comment. I just provided the post.

According to you using that term of endearment to a black man is the same as using it on a white man. NOT!

Did your boss call you a big ole gorilla?

Race relations in Toledo are just not that stable for a white boss to be throwing around the word gorilla to a black man on the job.

Your comments

"she can be offended with whatever she chooses. My whole point is that her statements are not accurate, historically speaking. Furthermore, it frustrates me when any person attempts to make comparisons with what an actual slave had to endure, when no one person living in the United States today can accurately make that comparison."

Let me clear one thing up nothing you have written has offended me. But while no one is living who was born before 1865, there were people who were still enslaved after that time. There are also slave narratives that relate accurate stories and there are also pictures of slaves that depict slavery.

No one is living today to tell about King Tut's tomb but we know about it, right? There is no one living to tell about the Crusades but it is taught and believed. No one is alive to tell about Christopher Columbus discovering America but you believe that right? Anyone out there who remembers the Boston tea party? I didn't think so, but you believe that right? I could go on with "accurate" history as told through the glasses of historians. What makes the institution of slavery any different? Did I have to be on a plantation to know what happened there? Did you have to be in Jamestown to know what happened there?

I am of mixed eastern European ancestry, some were from Poland and some from the Austro-Hungary empire.

Some of me relatives lived in, then Yugoslavia, now Croatia.

And the Serbs and Croats have been warring for centuries.

I do not have direct knowledge of the way it feels or experienced it first hand but I do have a since of empathy for those that live there and have to struggle through their life's.

We also have friends from Ghana, Lebanon and the Maldives Islands and they tell us of their home lands and with their vivid stories we can almost feel like we are there and can relate to some degree.

So, really when an ancestor of a slave tells me they know how it feels I listen to then as their great-grandparents may have passed down an oral history to their child and so on and so forth and that is something that is not found in history books.

The same is true for many of the First Nation peoples'. Sure you can read the history books written but you could listen to the oral histories and get a broadening of history and a broadening of one's own mind.

The same is true of the Holocaust, while I was not there, I can go to the Holocaust Center in Farmington Hills, Mi. and listen and learn from the relatives of those lost or actually meet a survivor.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Too bad you take the discussion as being tiring when people see a counter point or discussion.

I think Griffin's comments were a poor choice of words as would be the concentration camp.

And if you are a teacher in TPS I would you hope you would foster discussion and dialogue and not "tired of arguing it, and defending what I think is an obvious notion.." with your students.

Dialogue and discussion are key to better understanding.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Cool!

Billy

Please do not give the bosses in Toledo the idea that it is ok to put their arms around a black man and say, "this big gorilla is my right hand man."

As far as the word Galoot, I think that would have been more appropriate for the mayor to use instead of Go-rilla.

And may I add, I never said that I had a problem with the mayor using the term "go-rilla" in reference to Chief Bell. If Chief Bell said it was ok with him, which he did, then it is ok with me.

Now if he said it to me there would be a problem.

I am not building walls as the walls are already up. Remember October 15, 2005? What people am I splitting apart? Toledo's black and white community are already miles apart, figuratively and literally. I had nothing to do with that.

There is already separation, check out Toledo's demographics.

"Until America's white ruling class accepts the fact that the book never closes on massive unredressed social wrongs, America has no future as one people." -Randall Robinson

In some quarters it is not as wide as some would claim.

Although there are walls, yes.

We had a neighbor in the greater neighborhood come by our house from time to time and ask for some simple help. It was embarrassing to him, and I can share the sentiment that going to a stranger and asking for help might be embarrassing.

What was embarrassing for me is that in 2006 a black man would be stopped walking down the sidewalk with a loaf of bread he was carrying. Our neighbor told me this when I handed some food staples and he asked me for a bag.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

Either you are not reading or you are just stubborn.

"""And may I add, I never said that I had a problem with the mayor using the term "go-rilla" in reference to Chief Bell. If Chief Bell said it was ok with him, which he did, then it is ok with me.

Now if he said it to me there would be a problem"""

I have white neighbors, have had for 30 years but that does not mean Toledo is not already separated when it comes to race relations.