I just got the email from UT announcing what is coming up at UT this month. I never read these emails, but for some reason opened this one and found:
"MUSLIM STUDENT PRAYER ROOM
Student Annex * Room 2310
A new prayer room has been established on the Scott Park Campus. For more information please contact Dean’s Office AS205 or by phone (419) 530-3311 or Dennis Lettman. Dennis.Letterman@utoledo.edu."
This is my second semester at UT, and I really just park my car, go to class, walk back to my car, and go home. Are there any special rooms designated SPECIFICALLY for any other religious activities? I know groups are allowed to use rooms for whatever if they reserve them, but are any rooms made specifically for one religious group?
I'm just wondering. This announcement took me off guard.
I just read that Harvard is closing the gym to all guys from 3 - 5 daily, so Muslim girls will have their modesty protected. I can see why the guys may be pissed though. Lots of guys maybe try to squeeze in a gym work out in that time too - maybe it's the only time of day they have open to do it.
shouldn't be the reason a student paying for their education should be needlessly disposed of because of what someone "believes" in.
Why not have a bus set aside to allow these "practicing zealots" transportation to their respective chapel? Why inconvenience the students utilizing the facilities as they were designed for.
You non-smokers and zealots sure are mucking things up.
Cannot help but wonder why it is a concern?
They need to lay out pray mats and have a few moments to do what they wish to do.
A college is suppose to be an institution of higher learning.
Jewish prayer room on campus.
You are confident that if someone approached the Diversity department and made a case for the room or space, none would be given.
I think the bias is obvious.
Many, though not all, devout Muslims pray to Allah (God) 5 times per day. They could do it in the common rooms, but then they'd just have a bunch of bigots calling the cops.
Traditionally, Christian prayer is private and silent, Muslim prayer is out loud and in groups.
Well, maybe for some, but when I was employed in a business in Mi. there was a space set up so people could pray the way they wished, Muslims from Indonesia, and it was quite quiet and the few times I visited a mosque it was quite quiet during prayer time.
Just like the footwashing station I have no problem if it's being designed into buildings that are being built.
The only time I have a problem is when mass renovation is used to pacify a minority of students. If these prayer rooms are in rooms not currently being used by students then I have no problem with it. If we're moving classes or other groups and disrupting the normal flow of traffic then it becomes a problem.
I'm Catholic and I have been known to say the rosary during the day occasionally. I normally have to find a quiet place to kneel. Most times this requires me to find a chapel. I would wonder why they could not do the same?
If it's an issue of them not making it to class on time then I would say what I tell Marines at least once a week "We make time for what's important to us."
MikeyA
Why post here when you know exactly who you should be asking?
"For more information please contact Dean’s Office AS205 or by phone (419) 530-3311 or Dennis Lettman. Dennis.Letterman@utoledo.edu."
Pick up the phone or shoot off an email.
Well that's good. Then they shouldn't have any problem with a Christian prayer room and a Jewish prayer room. Oh wait I forgot...those two religions are old fashioned and bigoted and its cool now to tolerate Islam.
Religions are not bigoted, it is some of the followers of all that are the bigots.
Just some.
That's all fine for prayer rooms, but is it fair to expect the male students at Harvard to be banned from the gym daily from 3 - 5 pm, so the Muslim girls can excercise in modesty?
My husband told me about a Muslim man who used to work at Jeep, and he would not pee in the urinal or toilet - but rather, in a hidden corner of the plant into a paper coffee cup, then he'd dump it into the toilet. I assume he missed a lot, because he got found out when that area began to reek & he was confronted. He declared it was part of his Muslim belief to do so, which nobody believed of course. This man also would drop his pants & wash his privates in the public restrooms, in the circular wash basin after he used the rest room (after dumping his cup of pee, I assume) - and he said that too, was part of his Muslim belief (nobody believed him). I guess a lot of employees were a bit put off walking in on this man while he washed his jewels publicly.
We have to be careful when talking about beliefs and culture.
For instance, as a Catholic I go to Ash Wednesday mass, but it's not a Holy Day of obligation so my employer doesn't have to give me the time off. Ash Wednesday is a cultural rite and not exactly a religious one.
Just because some Muslims accept something as part of their culture doesn't mean it's inherently religious. It may be based in their religion but it doesn't mean it's a religious observance.
I have no problem with religious observance but when we recognize cultural observance we open the door to many more things like giving Irish Catholics St. Patty's day off and other such things.
MikeyA
I am willing to bet that there are Christians out there that will take exception to what is written about Ash Wednesday just as there will be those that don't.
What I find interesting is, was anyone put out by the use of the room or is it just that we do not like change and the ever evolving world we live in.
There are generally TONS of rooms and spaces (big and small) set aside on colleged campuses for Christians to gather, pray, and share. Just take a look through the number of christian clubs and groups that are hosted with room on campus, perhaps allowed to have an office, and given opportunities to used large areas like auditoriums, lecture halls, etc. to have large group gatherings.
to a strict time slot. big difference there
billy said - "We have to be careful when talking about beliefs and culture"
Really? We have to be careful? People can believe what they believe, but it doesn't mean other people have to tip-toe around them about what they say or talk about.
That said, I don't see why there'd be any problems with a designated room for Christians, Muslims, etc. to pray or gather in. It's been done in colleges for a long time. However, the limitation of the gym at Harvard daily from 3 - 5 (so Muslim girls can work out with modesty) does disturb me, because it limits other students from using the gym at that time. That IS expecting other (paying) students to limit their use of a facility on campus. And the hours from 3 - 5 may well be the only available times to work out for many students who are working & going to school. My son is a full time student at UT & about three days a week, he & his friends work out at the recreation center at UT from 3 - 5 . It is the only real convenient time for all of them to meet. So if UT decided to follow what Harvard did with it's gym, I'd be very angry (as would my son be).
The context of which I used beliefs was in the religious beliefs context of a large religion and not the cultural belief of a sect or localized tradition.
I would have no problem with giving the Muslims the UT gym if it was at an hour where it didn't interfere with a large portion of the student body.
That's what I was trying to get at in my original post. I have no problem if they try to accomodate them while interfereing with the larger operations of the university. I don't have a problem with foot baths being added to plans of a new facility in it's planning stages. I have a problem with specifically renovating existing facilities to accomodate foot baths.
It's no different than the Americans with Disabilities Act. New buildings have to comply with ADA standards, older ones get a pass. It's not to hurt or marginalize the disabled but sometimes the costs of renovations are not practical.
MikeyA
Your point is taken, there was never any mention about foot baths and the like at UT and to bring up the difficulties that people with disabilities or handicaps, it is not related to the prayer space.
My wife is partially paralyzed and my son has one eye and the other is prosthetic.
I still question where the harm, or the alleged harm, to people that are not even related to the issue, as in it does not effect me personally.
"there was never any mention about foot baths "
I only mention it because it has been debated at many other universities. I have no problem with being diverse as long as it doesn't come with the alienation of other groups.
MikeyA