A church whose members cheered a soldier's death as "punishment" for US tolerance of homosexuality has been told to pay $10.9m (
Huge fine for anti-gay US church
By neighborhood co... - Posted on November 1st, 2007
A church whose members cheered a soldier's death as "punishment" for US tolerance of homosexuality has been told to pay $10.9m (
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The fine wasn't because the church was "anti-gay." The fine was because they were cheering an American soldiers death at his funeral. This group has been doing this for a while, and as a Fundamental Baptist, I am glad to see these idiots get fined.
Their message - Soldiers are being punished because of homo-sexuality in the United States - these people are off their rocker. This doesn't even make sense.
Is this just a case of intolerance against the Westboro Baptist Church?
A church whose members cheered a soldier's death as "punishment" for US tolerance of homosexuality has been told to pay $10.9m (
I don't see this standing up in appeal. This is blatantly contrary to the First Amendment's guarentee to free speech. The only way to stop this church from protesting would be to pass legistlation that protesting a funeral is illegal (which would then have to work its way through the court system). There is no such legislation, and as far as the law is concerned a funeral is not a legitimate reason to put the Constitution on hold.
We in the US call ourselves tolerant, but we aren't. We just don't tie a bomb around our waist and detonate it in a crowded cafe. I am a Christian, but I am told almost weekly by other Christians that I'm going to hell because my Christian doctrine and beliefs are not the same as theirs. I have never been verbally abused by Muslims, Buddist, Hindus, or any other religion to my face. To think of cheering the death of one of our soldiers is nuts. Next they'll be having witch trials and hanging citizens for committing adultery. Nothing like that could ever happen in North America, could it?
(Salem Massachusetts)
Just for clarification, are you saying we should tolerate a group celebrating at our children's funerals?
Im assuming not.
I personally think funerals should be off-limits from any type of protest. I'll take that even as far as presidents or governors. However, current law doesn't make funerals or funeral homes off limits in most places (there may be a few states that limit protests at funerals, but most do not), and I don't think this is a place where courts should step in. The courts were never setup to legislate. They are setup to interpret laws and to judge constitutionality of existing laws. We, as a country, get ourselves into legal situations wildly unpopular and controversial when we allow a handful of judges to dictate public policy without the people's input. If this is something most Americans feel strongly about (and I think most do) then there should be enough support in either the state or national legislatures to pass laws limiting these practices. The legislature is where this debate lies, not in the US justice system.
As far as the issue of inciting a riot I don't see it. To my knowledge there has never been a riot incited by this organization. Likewise, I don't think slander really holds any water because the group isn't saying anything at all about the fallen soldier. slander involves the defamation of an individual by willfully spreading falsities about that person. This group is talking about the US as a whole, not the individual.
Hateful, disgusting speech is not an excuse to ignore the first amendment. Especially when speech is determined to be hateful or disgusting by a judge or 12 jurors.
That would seem to imply that the 10 Commandments should be ignored but yet there are those that want them in prominent places.
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
I'm a 110% happy this group is getting some heat. I like the prosecutor's committment to stay on this group until justice is served. Imagine how many cases can now go against this group?
Funeral protesters at Family Events are just plain wrong in any culture. To be truthful, I'm surprised these guys are still alive.
No this is a case of intolerance against the Westboro Baptist Church invasion of the rights to privacy of a deceased man.
MikeyA
They want a change in the Pentagon's policy. The Pentagon has long been able to decide who should be able to serve and how. But because the Pentagon has never changed a policy due to protesting they then are trying to get the Pentagon to change it's policy by protesting individual members of the military despite that individuals stance pro or against the policy.
It's like me protesting at the funeral of a Toledo Police Officer because I don't like the Mayor's budget cuts.
MikeyA
I think it could survive appeal but make it to the Supreme Court. There are two main things not covered by the Free Speech portion of the First Amendment. One is inciting panic the other is slander/libel. I think this could be declared both.
A few states have passed such legislation. Those have yet as far as I know to be challenged in court.
I think that because the person they're protesting is so far from the issue they're protesting is the reason this will pass an appeal. If they were protesting the funeral of a President or former DoD Secretary then they would have a significant free speech case. Because they're protesting people far removed from the decisions then it's nothing more than harassment.
MikeyA
Somethings in this country are still sacred and I think funerals should still be kept in that category if anything else.
There ya go.
People all have the answers.
I had a Muslim friend try and get me to learn more about Islam after I read the Koran and attended a few interfaith events and when I said that I was happy being a born again Pagan, that was that.
Actually wasn't the punishment for adultery stoning in the Old Testament?
http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog
I'm not saying we should tolerate a group for celebrating at our children's funeral. There are other effective ways for this group or any other group like this to protest. Interrupting a family's mourning is not one of them.
Just for clarification, are you saying we should tolerate a group celebrating at our children's funerals?
Conversely, are you saying that we should not tolerate their religious beliefs? Is there such a thing a good tolerance and bad tolerance? If so, who decides? Someone said in a previous thread (not you Billy) that gay people were being intolerant of religious people's beliefs. If you apply the same logic to this case, wouldn't this be an example of intolerance of the "godhatesfags" religious folks at Westboro?
This isn't about the Pentagon's policy.
Here's their website:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
Again, starting with the intolerance, everything else flows.
"Actually wasn't the punishment for adultery stoning in the Old Testament?" Yes it was as was working on the sabbath.
There is a distinct problem with people who only want to discuss the books of their religion. Many fundamentalists say "The ____ is all you'll need". That's Christian fundamentalists, Islamic Fundamentalists, Jewish Fundamentalist, etc.
As we all know the written word can be easily misconstrued. When you only base your religious findings off the written word it is easy to misconstrue it.
That's why we who believe in one faith or another must constantly question our faith and ask hard questions about our faith. When we don't and only rely on our own reading of a work we come up with different answers and some of those are dangerous.
I forget who it was who said "The Bible is perfect, it's the reader who screws up" was right but you could easily substitute Bible with Koran or Torah and it would still apply.
MikeyA
I don't want to get into a religious discussion, but I'll make a comment and then leave it at that. Christians don't choose not to follow certain teachings in the Old Testament because they find them antiquated or inappropriate for today. The reason Christians don't follow these teachings is because Old Testament teachings and commands do not apply to Christians today. That was the whole point of having Jesus and the start of the Church. The Old Testament commands only applied to the Jews. That's why you read numerous times throughout the New Testament of Christians being told not to follow Jewish commands found in the Old Testament.