Grossman wants to fine, then close businesses - He's out of touch

I agree as well. If the liquor department believes that a business does not respect the law, it is entitled not to renew a liquor license. We don't need another organization, particularly an overzealous one, taking more power than that allowed by the statute. Grossman has lost it.

I have to disagree with you guys. Dr. Grossman is my family physician. I can assure you his primary concern is for the good health of the community.

He may not be an elected official...but he is a leading physician (and President of the Board of Health) and has seen first hand the effects of smoking and second hand smoke.

I'm sure Dr. Grossman has had many a patient that he told to quit smoking for years who never did...and then came back to him with cancer saying why didn't I listen to you doc?

I think an issue with smokers that is just as big as their love for nicotine is their unchecked pride. Think about it...these tavern customers are fighting for the right to slowly kill themselves...and the tavern owners are profiting from it by pretending to be fighting for thier customers "rights."

Sometimes there are more important things than money ToledoPlusPlus.

If you were on your death bed dying of from cancer caused by second hand smoke...I have a hard time believing your last words will be...

"At least small business thrived..."

Your "small business thrived" comment makes me think you are completely missing the point of my post.

Grossman calls this press conference to announce "Taverns and restaurants that repeatedly violate Ohio's smoking ban should be forced to close". Among the few hundred businesses that successfully thwarted his first smoking ban AND worked together to get the Grossman/JFo ban amended, not one of them makes income to the point where a $2,500 daily fine could be considered a "routine cost of doing business". This is the first point where he's out of touch.

The second point, since you brought it up, is that regardless of his motives or his professional or personal relationship with you, I don't give a damn what he thinks I should or should not do. What kind of God complex does he have that makes him think I should?

It's fine with me if he wants to pass out patches and nicotine gum, but years ago he started his attempts to legislate behavior and crossed the line from being a concerned professional to being an anti-smoking zealot. So far his position has proven to be personally and professionally embarrassing. I remember him grieving when Toledo recently modified his/ JFo's smoking ban. He was quoted in the Blade saying, "What they've done is set the health of Toledo back 20 years". The ban was in effect less than a year. The man is either not rational or lacking in the ability to operate a calendar. In any event, I wouldn't have him for my doctor.

Even though it looks like he finally got a law passed to make businessman enforce his distaste for smoking. I look forward to the fiasco when this new and poorly written law starts to be enforced.

Junta - The Ohio Department of Health has promulgated the enforcement rules for the new law and passed them on for review, modification and possibly codification. The ODOH has not given anyone or any body the ability to enforce the law. In fact, through a memorandum of understanding in a Cincinnati court case the ODOH has agreed not to permit enforcement of the law until the codification process is complete. That process might take a while.

Kooz, like it or not, Grossman's rabid intolerance of smokers make him seem less professional. His lack of understanding of small business operations and zest for enforcing a law that he has not been given the authority to enforce illustrate that he's out of touch with reality.

You are in favor of behavioral control and I am in favor not yielding to folks like you. That's OK we don't need to agree on all issues. You should know that statements like "I don't give a damn if a business goes under if it means me not breathing your filthy smoke" are misguided as I don't smoke. I believe you when you say you don't care though about businesses going under as a result of your meddling, most antismokers don't.

I work at a bar where 3 years ago a women retired after working there for 50 years. She is 83 years young. I know of another young women who has worked in bars all her life she won't tell her age but I believe her to be close to 80. She still works at a bar partime. Will someone explain to me why these 2 women are still alive and in good health?

SherryET you've got to be wrong...I'm just shocked that someone who is in her 80's is still alive and healthy after working in a bar over 50 years. How could this be? Can you imagine how long this person would/could live if Grossman and his gang would have saved her 50 years ago? It had to of been a nonsmoking bar.

I smoked for a few years so now I'm probably only going to live until I'm 160.

Woe is me for not following our Toledo Health Messiah.

Big Jim...yes we disagree. I appreciate your civility and discussion on the topic and respect your opinions regarding this issue..

Now to darkside...

Darkside...c'mon now...how do you turn this into people like me and the Iraq War? I actully voted to ALLOW smoking in public places...but, since it failed and is now law...I choose to side with the law...

As a side note...if we do bring the troops home now and leave Iraq...the only thing you'll see smoking in about ten years is the barrel of a gun by the Islamo-facists who shot and killed you because he/she could REALLY care less about your civil rights...

My wife Nina just gave me a hall pass for Wednesday night. I'll be at the saloon for the 6:00 social meeting. I might even buy a drink for the group, if the Bears make a comeback . . . .

If I die of second hand smoke, I take full responsibility for my inability to get in my car and find another bar/restaurant.

You are right on the money!

now the woman is suing the tobacco companies for being RESPONSIBLE for her mothers death...so much for PERSONAL responsiblity...

It sounds like someone is trying to profit from the death of a loved one. It was the tabacco companies fault that she smoked? are we gonna sue budwieser for an alcoholic. Well shit who do we sue for being a crack-head?

I'm merely pointing out to Toledo Plus Plus that some things are more important than if a business remains open.

Yea, its called personal freedom, of which is slowly being legislated away.

The law is the law. The smoking ban has been the law since early december. The fines would not be retroactive in the sense that a reasonable person could tell you what the law was at the time. If you choose to violate the law, you knew that future fines were pending. However, since the state agreed to suspend the law until all the final details were worked out, you're probably okay in the fine department. Regardless, the Ohio Department of Liquor might not be too happy with your violation of the law and would likely have the right to suspend any liquor licenses of businesses that violate the law. But I don't speak for them. Given their past behavior, I'm merely trying to predict what will happen (like stopping people at the Michigan border to see if they purchased alcohol in Michigan for the purpose of bringing it into Ohio, and arresting them under an archaic law).

A U.S. Supreme court decision during the early 1970's ((Lloyd Corp v. Tanner, 407 U.S. 551 (1992)) said a place of business does not become public property because the public is invited in.

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Why has no one else referred to this decision? Very interesting,isn't it?

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In World War 2 we fought the Nazis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

and a good burger.