DeBoer on De Smoking

Usually I ignore DeBoer and her strident anti-freedom cacophony, but today I woke up on the wrong side of the gutter. Then I read this piece of drivel.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/COLUMNIST...

Look, we already told you. Not interested.

Don't look, listen. Of course, that would mean that your grandiose ideology might be contaminated by thoughts of freedom, so maybe you'd be better off just keeping your fingers in your ears with the elevator music turned up.

In the seven years since local health commissioner Dr. David Grossman first mentioned a smoking ban, annual American Lung Association of Ohio data say 132,000 Buckeyes died of tobacco-related causes; $24 billion has been spent statewide for smoking-related health costs; the average Ohio household paid smoking-related taxes totaling $3,700 - and nearly 258,000 teens started smoking every day.

Oh, well, that's gospel. Add fatality figures from the Brady Bunch for gun control, the Gospel Group for anti-abortion and the Green Group for a clean ecology, then explain why we're all still alive.

The only thing worse than the Blade printing yellow trash like this is you being paid to write it. And speaking of being paid, now that smoking is against the law does that mean that all those average Ohio households will save $3700 on their tax bill over the next seven years?

No votes yet

The daily Blah has been feeding everybody this same old horseshit for years...John R. Block has got a BIG bug up his ass about smoking. Seven years already! I don't buy the paper for the reason that they have skewed their reporting so much toward their political beliefs. Plus, they have fucked over so many people in this town that didn't deserve to be run out. John and Allen deserve to be run out on a rail. I'm fed up with these c.s.ers.

I remember when she had lunch at Arnies and was so proud that she'd done her part to support taverns complying with the JFo smoking ban.

I hope this law gets amended and it is another huge embarrassment to The Blade and to a lesser degree, to Ms. DeBoer.

Big Jim

Stop whining about freedom. You act like you're some persecuted minority, but you're not. You're free to quit at any time. Or smoke outside. It's up to you.

If smokers would just take half the effort they spend bitching and put it towards quitting, they'd be smoke free in no time.

thomashay said "If smokers would just take half the effort they spend bitching and put it towards quitting, they'd be smoke free in no time."
and, I say - If non smokers would have just taken half the effort they spend bitching about SHS and excercised their freedom to choose to NOT enter places that allowed smoking - all of this would be moot.

I was told to take up smoking. It would keep the 'weight off' and make a calmer baby.

http://www.newstarget.com/008291.html

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

typical mob mentality attitude. I guess that unalienable rights thing is just crap.

I wonder if Roberta will have the same attitude towards the school levies that are rejected only to be put back up again and again.

Yeah, what he said. Good one, Starling.

You know, Darkseid, I hadn't wanted to bring that up, but DeBore really is pretty... homely. Mean, too.

I don't know about school levy support, but when the Blade finally loses the right to run what ever advertisements Block wants you can mark your calendar that the real censorship has started in earnest. I expect the government to censor DeBoer in one way or another sooner rather than later - Contempt of Carty, maybe.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Thomasjay - Just about all Toledo restaurants had non-smoking sections prior to any ban - some better than others, I admit. Bowling alleys tend to be pretty open, so it wouldn't have been hard to stay away from smokers (they usually always have a lounge or bar so it'd have been a more fair compromise to allow smoking in said lounge). Bingo halls & bars just seem to go hand in hand with smoking, like it or not. I went to a few bingo halls years ago with a friend (ya, I know, but we were curious), and bingo players are fanatical with their lucky Bic lighters & smoke like crazy. Nobody goes to a bar with the expectation that it's good for their health, so don't even go there. Since the first smoking ban in Toledo, some restaurants installed separate, enclosed rooms with expensive venitlation systems for smokers to conform to the rules of the first ban - most could not afford to do so, or didn't have the room to do so (and nobody's offered to reimburse the expenses of those rooms & systems, even though they are worthless now). We go out to dinner & breakfast once each a week - and I know from experience that at least 99 percent of ALL Toledo restaurants did NOT have a smoking section after the first smoking ban. The chains in Maumee, Sylvania, Oregon tended to go non-smoking to stay in alignment with the smoking ban in the Toledo parts of the chain. Ever since the first Toledo smoking ban, we have not eaten out in Toledo. Since this Ohio ban, we have not eaten out in Ohio. (and we were not eating out at the Golden Corral - we were going to higher end good restaurants & had dinner, drinks & dessert & left at least a 20 percent tip. This also includes when I go out with friends (as opposed to hubby). So just for my family & friends, there's been a good chunk of business & tips lost. But do not presume to whine that there were no places you could go out to eat & not be bothered by shs before the ban & expect me to believe it. You had the freedom to choose where to eat, and if their smoking section waa not contained enough for you, then you simply had the freedom of choise to go somewhere else that was. If anybody deserves the right to whine 'there's no place for us to go' it'd be the smokers & their family & friends. Because right now, there truely IS no place for us to go. I am the only smoker among my friends that I eat out with - but they accomodate me, because we tend to sit & visit for 2 - 3 hours at a stretch (we tip damned well to cover the table for that long - we make it worth the waitresses while, she's smiling). My husband does not smoke, and he accomodates me. Before you blast me for expecting people to accomodate me, be assured that I have told them to pick the place & I'll go as long as we can get there early enough to get served without a long wait. They do not seem to mind or care where we go, so we head to Michigan.

I'd also like to address the mindset that some non-smokers seem to have about smokers. It's clear from the comments to 'just step outside' that you don't have the first clue about why smokers smoke, or what that 'stepping outside' means. If I am out to dinner with one person (jeez, I"ve said this before, sorry for repeating myself) - then I will not 'step outside' & leave my one dinner partner to sit alone - that is beyond rude. If I am out to dinner with a group of friends, I also won't 'step outside' to exclude myself from the visit with my friends (that often took a month for us to arrange schedules to meet). I will not 'step outside' alone, in the dark (cold, rain) - there is a wealth of information available about ban damage as it pertains to a serious increase in crime - rape, assault, robberys - to those standing alone in the dark. Especially those places that now require you to stand 20 or more feet from the entrance. Thomasjay - if you were out to eat with a beloved aunt (or mother, sister, date, etc.) would you be ok with a single woman 'stepping outside' alone in the dark (cold, rain)? My husband clearly holds my safety to be more important than eating in an Ohio restaurant.

Also - smoke nazi's like to say 'just stop smoking', & act like we're just weak if we don't. Not that simple. Yes, I know people have succeeded, as did my internist who used to tell me that he quit smoking 20 years ago but there was not a day that went by that he still did not crave a Camel. I cannot speak for other smokers - but for me, it's more than just a nicotine addiction. It's a hand habit, an emotional crutch, it sooths my nerves, relieves my antsy angst feelings when things get slooow (like waiting for a waitress, dinner, check - that can take forever). But before you blast me for being such a weakling, just stop to remember all the people who are currently taking prescription drugs that ease the same feelings. Would you imply that those people are 'weak' because they injest a substance/drug that helps them? This country has become insane in the number of people medicated with drugs like Adderal, Xanax, Valium, etc. There are more people than ever before - astounding numbers - who have been "diagnosed" with ADD, ADHD, Bi-Polar, Depression, etc, etc. etc. What on earth did people do BEFORE? People don't really change, and people tend to be the same no matter where you go - so why NOW? Do not even try to blame stress now-a-days, because our parents & grandparents suffered far more stress than we have. My guess (just my own guess) is that people now are not suffering worse than our ancestors did - they just handled it better or differently, and did not rely on phamacuticals like this generation does. I've had my own experience with those types of drugs in the past & I cannot tolerate them, cannot tolerate anything that fuzzes up my brain. And these drugs are not necessarily proven to be better than just having a cigarette - if you look at the side effects, they can cause homocidal, suicidal, violent, depressed behaviours. My daughter's friend has been on several & she got worse & stranger with each one. My mother used to tell me 'choose your poison'. I'd much prefer to have a cigarette to calm my nerves than to be on those types of drugs. And if you had a friend or family member on those drugs & it affected their personality, I highly doubt that you'd suggest that they simply 'don't take the meds when we go out to dinner'. Personally, I'd much rather be sitting near a table of heavy duty cigar smokers than a table of people on these drugs. The shooter at Vermont tech was on these drugs I believe, as were the Colombine shooters. And before you go off on a rant about how I'm suggesting smoking for medical reasons - I am not, I admit that smoking is not good for you, and truth be told, wish I hadn't started at age 17. But I did, and it's been my 'fix' to sooth my nerves for that many years (I am slightly past 50). I'm just suggesting that you consider that there are many reasons smokers smoke, that go beyond the simple 'nicotine fix'. (And like katie - when I started smoking, doctors were actually suggesting you smoke to calm your nerves - they'd have ashtrays in doctors waiting rooms & offices, and 'doctors' in ads promoted smoking.) I agree that smoking is less than healthy - but the WHO has not once been able to prove one death caused by shs. And the short time you sit your ass in a restaurant that has an enclosed smoking section (with you in the pretty non-smoking part) there is no way that you will suffer any problems with shs. No way before any smoking ban, and no way now. So do not do that sorry 'cry me a river' routine about how unfair things were for you. You ALWAYS had the option of a non-smoking section, or the freedom to eat elsewhere. And yes, I could go 2 hours without smoking (as I've said before) - hell, I'd even dope myself up on Xanax to take a flight to Italy if somebody wants to pay for the flight so I can prove it - and survive without smoking. Easy? Of course it wouldn't be. My point is, why should I HAVE to? This smoking ban is NOT about my right to smoke, or your right to not have to deal with shs. It is about the rights of the private business owner to determine if he'll allow a legal activity. And as long as that owner makes it known that smoking is allowed (or not) - we all had/have the right to choose with our money where to go. Businesses always had the option to go smoke free - they did not need a law to tell them they could. I suggest thomasjay (and Roberta debour) that you put your money where your whiney mouth is and open your own non-smoking bar, bowling alley, bingo or pool hall, restaurant. Talk is cheap. Let's see you walk the walk.

The money is going some place. If people are spending less money at the bar, they're spending it on something else. For every bar owner that's hurting there is another entrepreneur someplace that's not.

Not always Shane - we haven't eaten out nearly as often as we used to since the ban, and we aren't spending our money elsewhere or on other things.

I can identify with your comment about a cigarette relaxing the nerves. The effects of nicotine on the dopamine receptors of the brain are documented. Nicotine itself will 'short circuit' the pain receptors and make life tolerable for those of us with a chronic illness and multiple allergies to medications. I cannot take pain meds and don't do well on most sedatives - break out in hives, can't breathe, hallucinate.

My doctor reminds me (dutifully) that smoking is bad for me, but she also realizes that, for me, it helps. Helps control the pain, the muscle spasms, and the anxiety that goes along with multiple disorders.

I believe non-smokers have the right to dine without smoke - but they have ALWAYS had that right. I believe that adult smokers that have made an informed choice to partake of a potentially unhealthy LEGAL product should also have the right to do so. But most importantly - if I own a business and put a sign in my ads and on the door that says "We welcome Smokers and NonSmokers alike" and you (JQ NonSmoker) choose to enter then you just need to hush and eat your dinner. At that point the BUSINESS OWNER has determined what works to keep his business profitable and thriving for his clientele.

I agree carol - There are so many people on meds now to 'calm the nerves' , or for multiple reasons - I wonder how they'd feel/fare if they just went cold turkey & let their bi-polor, adhd, depressions kick in full force. I cannot tolerate those types of meds - I'm on no prescriptions, and have good health - I'd rather smoke than take most of those meds.

For every bar owner that's hurting there is another entrepreneur someplace that's not.

Yeah, so what's your point? Why should those bar owners be hurt just because of mob rule?

You realize that's the same rationale bureaucratic thieves like Carty use when they use their eminent domain BS to justify the illegal seizure of the property of homeowners and businessmen.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070512/NEWS02/70...

Smoking is legal. If a businessman wants to allow a legal activity on his property, mob rule should NOT be allowed to prevent that.

If the government is so damn fired up to protect us from ourselves then why dont they treat tobacco like they did asbestos and lead based paint???

Truth is, the government doesnt give two shits. Tobacco is big bucks. Passing more laws also generates bucks.

Considering all of the places that allowed smoking before the ban, just where the hell would I go? I go out twice a week now as opposed to not at all before the ban and the places I go to don't sure don't seem to be at a loss for business. Quit being selfish.

BWWWAaaHHHAAAHHhhHHAAaaa!!!! I couldn't believe I read that. The ONLY liberty or freedom of choice most rabid smoker-haters believe in is abortion. This country is finished. If WW2 were fought today, we'd all be saluting Hitler by now. And Dear God, Da Bore is an uglyyyyy woman.
I don't miss reading her horseshit (always sounded as if she merely had her columns 'ghost-written'by J.R.B)one iota.

BTW, congrats, Starling, that was the best comeback I ever remember reading by you.

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BRING THE TROOPS HOME-NOW!
Why should one more drop of our soldiers blood be spilled on foreign soil? Why fight/die for 'freedom' anymore when our citizens are pissing it away at the voting booth?

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Dear Thomas,

Smokers are a persecuted minority in every sense of the phrase. The current smoking ban was passed by people who are either annoyed by smoke or somehow feel that they were making the world a better place by getting rid of smoking.

By the way, what makes you think smokers want to quit? Those that do quit. Those who don't continue smoking. When I smoked, I damn well enjoyed it.

Big Jim

...they'd just outright ban the legal substance.

But instead Tom wants to put his stupidity on the table and call it a "qualifed statement"

Forget the smoking ban stuff....how do you even afford to smoke? I bet somewhere, someone paid $10 a pack in some crazy urban hot spot / hotel.

Well said, Billy.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

The places you go don't seem to be hurting for business. That's nice.

The places I go to aren't so fortunate. One example is a little neighborhood bar I visit on occasion, whose customer base used to consist of working people stopping in after their shift was over. Since they can't enjoy their after work beer and cigarette at their favorite local watering hole, they're skipping that step and just going home.

But it's not just the little bars. I also frequent a fairly upscale club with live music. The people who run it have noticed a large drop off in business. My friends haven't been as vocal about the ban as many others have. They don't like the ban, but they've been trying to work with it because that's "what the voters wanted." And because the anti-smoking contingent assured them that the non-smokers would be coming out in swarms once all the ashtrays were gone.

Well, the owners are still waiting. Just recently, a band that usually packs their club drew less than half a room. And at any given moment, you will generally find more people out on the patio than in the bar.

So, where are you ThomasJay? Where are you and all of your friends who promised to support all of the businesses that went non-smoking? You guys have some SERIOUS work to do, so you'd better get organized and start helping out. This is what you wanted, right? Get busy.

Talked to a Cleveland bar owner last week on the west side of the Cuyahoga River... he said his business was dying. Just a working-class bar, but they can't smoke there any more so they're staying away. He doesn't have a patio. I guess he's just being selfish.

Yes, bar owners have nothing to worry about now that Thomas Jay is going out two times a week.

Seriously, Mr. Jay, what bars did you used to stay away from that you now go into a couple times a week?

Big Jim

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