CYO BBall party leads to more than 50 juveniles and adults arrested for drinking

When I won a divisional championship I only got pizza and pop-times have changed. Who is at fault for this?

Toledo Blade: Ohio liquor enforcement agents and Sylvania Township police arrested a total of 52 juveniles and adults early this morning during a raid at a party at 5931 Stewart Rd. off Alexis Road.

Earl Mack, agent-In-charge of the Ohio Department of Public Safety's Toledo District office, said this afternoon that most of those arrested were underage juveniles from Bedford, Notre Dame Academy, and St. John's Jesuit high schools. He said the party was apparently held to celebrate a divisional basketball championship won by a Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) team affiliated with Our Lady of Mount Carmel Catholic Church in Temperance.

"where one full keg and one partial keg of beer were confiscated along with three empty kegs," - Wow a 5 keg'r

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070304/DEVELOPIN...

No votes yet

... is widespread. The authorities can spank these parties all they want -- there are just going to be more and more of them. Let the cultural Bacchanalia begin!

Of course, we do need to lower the age of majority a bit. By 16, people are champing at the bit to get out from under certain restrictions of age. By 18, they fully expect to be social drinkers -- yet in Ohio they cannot be legal for 3 more years. There's a price to pay for such enfranchisement, of course, but real liberty always carries a cost. The story of America was SUPPOSED to be one where liberty would constantly expand. Right?

I blame Bush for this. Oh wait, I spelled it wrong....I blame "Busch" for this...

Pink Slip

Pete is correct, in my opinion.

And I could be wrong, but I believe most of the federal blackmail started when the Clintons were in power. I know they were famous for using it at any rate. The states have little power any more.
The RWJF is behind most of the push on drinking laws, the same as the war on smokers.

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In World War 2 we fought (and defeated) the Axis. Today we're afraid of cellphones, smokers, and cheeseburgers. It's about at the end, people.

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

There's a price to pay for such enfranchisement, of course, but real liberty always carries a cost. The story of America was SUPPOSED to be one where liberty would constantly expand. Right?

But we NEED the government to tell us how to live, how to act, and how to be safe, dont we?

I mean, without the government, all 18,19 and 20 yr olders would do would be to hang out in bars drinking, smoking cigarettes and eating Transfat Burgers...

The problem here is that it wasn't a group of 18-20 year olds at this party. They were juveniles under 18 so I guess I just don't understand how this incident could be a case for dropping the drinking age to 18. This group would have still been breaking the law.
Since the party was for the 16-17 year old basketball team it's pretty safe to guess there were more then a few teens there under the age of 18.

I'm with Pete on this one. Well said.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

IMO, if we can put 15 years old kids on trial in adult court, then 18 years seems appropriate for a minimum drinking age. You can do everything else at 18. If you can sign a contract, get married or get ripped off by a credit card company, why can't you drink. Of course, let's not forget military service.

I understand the price for treating the age of majority as the age for drinking. I agree with Pete and GZ. But I think there is plenty of blame to pass around. We have a lot of nanny organizations out there that push for something because in their minds what is best for us is what they tell us to do. There was a lot of pressure on the Feds to put this pressure on states to use federal dollars as blackmail. Unfortunately for us, it is a lot easier for politicians to go along with this type of pressure than to say no.

An old friend of the family, who was also a doctor, once told me that the drinking age was based upon physiological considerations...something about the body going through 7-year cycles and that, at 21 (third cycle) the body could physically handle alcohol consumption.

Now, he told me this quite some time ago, and new advances may have negated this theory...but has anyone else ever heard this?

ps - I have no opinion on the drinking age - other than it should be decided by the states without interference or pressure from the federal government.

It may be easy to look at a kid that is 18, looks 25 and is big, etc. But inside, that brain may still lack the maturity to make good decisions.

Especially the male brains, they dont mature until what, 40?

HAHAHAHAHA - JUST KIDDING GUYS. (I just couldn't resist that one LOL)

FYI - while it is legal to allow your own children to drink alcohol, (this is a cultural choice, and a parents' prerogative), you may not serve or purchase alcohol to/for any one else's child.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Well, if we're all so disturbed by what the age of majority is, and for which purpose such majority applies to, then let's set voluntary and testable limitations.

We could set 16 as the starting age of majority, subject to a voluntary set of tests for:

project? Thay can let us know how it goes, after they build--implement--evaluate.

we could let our own beloved fearless leader, implement, build and evaluate?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

It's amazing how anyone survived growing up without seatbelts, bike helmets, and car seats. Even more amazing we were surrounded with lead paint, asbestos, and trans fat and used cigarettes, guns, and alchohol.

Ahhh, the good ol' days.

An excellent point was made on this thread. An 18 yr old is not legally old (adult) enough to drink alchohol, but can get married, go to war, sign a contract, go into debt, donate an organ. However, a 15 yr old IS considered old (adult) enough to be tried as an adult. To me, that is a huge contradiction & jumbled logic at best.

High School & College Rocked!
Submitted by brassmonkey on Tue, 2007-03-06 14:58.

It's amazing how anyone survived growing up without seatbelts, bike helmets, and car seats. Even more amazing we were surrounded with lead paint, asbestos, and trans fat and used cigarettes, guns, and alchohol.

Ahhh, the good ol' days.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Don't tell me no one on this post had or attended a party when they were underage..

Yea, but i never got caught. I made it out the back door and into the alley while the cops were coming in the front. 8-) Man, those were the good old days!

Ohio and every other state in the union have been blackmailed by the Feds into adopting the 21-year-old statute on alcohol consumption. If they don't adopt the law, they lose millions of dollars in highway funds. Same with seatbelts, same with speedlimits (until recently) and same with other restrictions that the Feds want enforced. I have a feeling that the alcohol restrictions actually reinforce keggers and excessive consumption of alcohol. The Feds ought to get out of coercing states into adopting laws that should be locally grown.

There is a ton of research that has been done on the development of adolescents, especially brain development.

Here are a couple of pieces that bring out some of the issues:
http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/Adolescence.pdf
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/Publicat/teenbrain.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

A case could be made that the age of majority should be more like 20 or 21 just based upon the development of the brain and when it is fully mature and functional. This is critical with regard to the frontal lobe and its function as the brain's "CEO" so to speak.

It may be easy to look at a kid that is 18, looks 25 and is big, etc. But inside, that brain may still lack the maturity to make good decisions.

From Sflagg: We have a lot of nanny organizations out there that push for something because in their minds what is best for us is what they tell us to do.

Just tell me why we can

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Well, I'm sure you'd know all about that, TM.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

I'm sure there's more to come on this story and we'll see just what the ages were of most of the offenders. But I understand your post and point even if it did get lost with the anti "nanny-government" crowd.

Hey

I'm glad to know I finally made it. Wonder when my wife will grow up...Just kidding ladies.

This has been a most interesting thread - we have been all over the place.

Hard concept to grasp but...my 17 year old who was days away from turning 18 wanted to attend this and another party. I asked the infamous question...will there be parents there and will no alcohol be served?

Upon my questioning said minor was not able to provide satisfactory answers. So...SHE DID NOT GO...a friend of hers who is 18 was called to pick up two girls, who were minor's and who's parents obviously sucked...only way I can describe that sort of parent. So, the 18 year old drove over to pick up two minors and that is the exact moment the raid happened. The 18 year old had the brains to call me. I told her to demand a test since they were stating she had used alcohol. She blew a zero yet they still cited her for being present. She can deal with that later...bottom line...STUPID parents who don't bother to make sure where their children are that late at night (well after midnight) give us all a bad name - even in the burbs where they like to pretend this doesn't happen but happens all to often....

We don't remember days only moments...

Starling the reason 18 is chosen as the age of adulthood is that is the age when the average person is capablable of making a right or wrong choice, fully acknowledge the consequences of that choice, and have the ability to find all necessary information to make an informed choice.

However a 15 year old killer is tried as an adult simply because they understand the difference between right and wrong.

Every psychologist will tell you that bad traits such as dishonesty, stealing etc. are all learned traits. However the first step in our learning is the acknowlegdement of right and wrong. And every child learns that right and wrong comes with consequences. As to if they know exactly what consequences is the difference.

Now a 15 yr old knows right and wrong. They know there's consequences. Yet if they make the choice to do an adult act they then must face adult consequences.

Basically the difference in the law is acknowledging that there's an age where a person is fully able to make adult decisions through the law and one who makes adult decisions of their own accord despite the law. Both have consequences and to diminish those consequences without weighing the impact of the decision is socially dangerous.

If all 15 yr olds knew they could murder someone in cold blood and get away with it with only 3 yrs served we'd see a significant rise in violent crime.

MikeyA

MikeyA

What are you talking about. I'm all for 5 keg parties.

Thinking about buying a keg this weekend.

Don't tell me no one on this post had or attended a party when they were underage.

Jack - why does one have to run for office to make changes in our community? If more citizens asked questions and held those accountable, we would have better government - period. So should we tell people to shut up if they don't run for office?

I'm not saying that some things should not be regulated. But before I have someone else tell me this is good for me, I want to weigh in and have an impact on the decisions that affect me. And I especially want to have something to say when my liberties are are the question.

I don't know what these so-called scientists are talking about. Why, when I was a child gin was mother's milk to me. And later on, when the damned government stuck me in high school it was gin that got me through the day. Gin!

Here's how!

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

It may be easy to look at a kid that is 18, looks 25 and is big, etc. But inside, that brain may still lack the maturity to make good decisions.

Yet we'll hand that same 18 year old who lacks the maturity to make good decisions an uber weapon and send him to war.

...but I wasn't a typical teenager...

You're right brass I attended such events. Moreso in college when that type of thing is a common occurance. But I think the key thing is the ones I went to were not condoned by my parents and if I had gotten caught I would have had a strict punishment and I would have personally acknowledged that I had done wrong and accepted my punishment.

MikeyA

MikeyA

Sflagg:

My point here is that you're quick to mention nanny style government while you're holding an anti-gun sign and upholding the Brady-bunch and their anti-freedom campaign. What you don

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

I don't want to send any 18 year old to war and I think the experience at that age can have some long term consequences - mostly all bad. Personally I would rather solve every problem with diplomacy and send no one to war. But alas....

Nice try Jack

even if you are elected, your ability to influence change is still limited in many ways. Sometimes, being the thorn in the side or the sqeaky wheel is the more effective method - depending on what you're trying to accomplish....

When I entered the military I was 22. I was older and more mature than 80% of my peers. However I wouldn't say I was more aptly able to take any experience better than them. They were all energetic, and intelligent. While I was more experienced I would not saw I was smarter. If anything they had an upper hand because they easily adapted to the disciplined lifestyle because most had just come from a disciplined environment.

They moved from a life where their parents were authority figures and the military seniors stepped in and filled that void.

I, however, had lived on my own and was unaccostomed to following anyone's orders but my own. So I had to adjust my thoughts to conform.

I think the biggest thing we should all realize is that an 18 yr old, regardless of their environment or family suitation, is old enough to know right from wrong. It may not seem like an important distinction but it is. That's why I have no problem opening more choices for 18 yr old's. However that's without diminishing the consequences.

Those I served with who came up with the best ideas, worked the hardest, and who were willing to sacrifice more were below the age of 21. Most not much older than that of a high school senior. They handled equipment and made decisions that meant millions of dollars. I put my life in their hands and I'd do it again without hesitation.

MikeyA

MikeyA

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