Contradictions of the Bible & Other Biblical Evils - Why I Don't Believe

Contrary to popular belief...just mincing holier-than-thou troll bastards who always feel they're superior to Starling and I...you know, people like you.

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"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.

BrianInVeroFL.....

You can answer your own question.....TAKE A BREATH!

Colossians 1:16-17, "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

Brian, is it? I'm not entirely sure who you think you are, but you have no grounds on which to declare that I have no proof of God's existence. I could offer my arguments for the existence of a First Cause and a Higher Being and my thought processes by which I came to the conclusion that that is the God of the Bible. I can also list the contradictions with the belief that there is no God. It is a logical impossibility.

You, however, are combative and clearly incapable of an honest exchange of ideas and I will not waste my breath.

In the future, do not make assumptions on my beliefs... you will likely be wrong.

Hmmm... I made no assumptions, Starling's beliefs were laid bare for all to read. So, no, I try not to assume.

I again assert that your belief has no bearing on either my belief or God's actual existence.

Well, in that case, I believe in absolute right and absolute wrong. I think you are wrong. Christians, by nature, should share their faith with others. Some call this "forcing opinions," and if that's how you want to call it, then let it be so, and I am guilty.

The idea that "everyone is entitled to their opinion" is dangerous. Yep, this is a free country, and you can believe whatever you want to, as can I. So in that way, you're right. But to say that everyone is right is a contradiction. If I am right, atheism is wrong. If atheism is right, Christianity is wrong. Either way, there is a loser.

Just because you hate Christians doesn't mean that you need to be illogical in your arguments, Brian.

Starling's views are inherently anti-Christian, and no one can say otherwise. My choice of a verb that you don't like, doesn't make my statement incorrect. Starling's mind is against Christians, is it not?

I would have said the same thing if someone had said something negative about women, or about someone of a particular race. Starling is not willing to even consider the possiblity of the idea of a God, and therefore, his/her mind has been poisioned against it.

Starling02, at your request, I will expound on the scriptures that you listed. However, I must say in order to expound on them, I must use reference to scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-36

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household."

The last part of this verse is a quotation from Micah 7:6 which says, "For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man’s enemies are the men of his own house." So this is a quotation from the Old Testament that Jesus applies to Christians. At first glance, it seems rather strange for Jesus to be quoting pre-Babylonian prophets, but upon inspection of the context and meaning of both passages, I think that this will become clear.

First, in the prophecy of Micah, we see a dialogue between God and Micah. Chapter six of Micah is key to this dialogue because God is setting forth an accusation or "controversy" with the children of Israel and calling for their repentance. Scholars believe that in chapter seven, Micah is speaking on behalf of the faithful congregation within the midst of a rebellious people. Verses 1-6 of Micah chapter six are a description of the wickedness that surrounds the faithful of God. Verses 7-13 are a confession of sin on the part of this congregation and an acceptance of the punishment that the Lord is going to mete out. This style of writing is commonly found in the Old Testament especially in the Psalms. The Psalmist will often describe the characters and attributes of the wicked and then state what the faithful's response to wickedness should be. Psalm 2 is an excellent example of this type of comparison and contrast. So having these thoughts in mind, verse 6 is a description of how wicked people are going to act in the presence of the faithful. How will they act? The wicked son will dishonor the father. The wicked daughter will rise up against her mother. The wicked daughter-in-law will do the same against her mother-in-law. In essence, when it comes to wicked people, "a man's enemies are the men of his own house."

Now, how does this apply to Matthew 10:34-36? If you go back all the way to the beginning of the chapter you will notice that this chapter concerns the sending of the disciples on the limited commission. The entire chapter is devoted to instruction on what the disciples should expect when they go out into the world and preach the gospel to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" (verse 6). There are two types of instruction given to the disciples in this chapter. First there is positive instruction as to what they are to do on the limited commission. This comprises verses 5-15. Then there are various and sundry warnings given to the disciples about what they could expect from the unbelievers. This comprises verses 16-42. Chapter 11 verse 1 clearly indicates that this entire section of scripture was given as instruction for this limited commission because it gives this conclusion to the commission in these words: "When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples."

The section of scripture with which we are concerned falls within the sundry warnings that Jesus is giving to his disciples regarding the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus words to them are basically this. Don't expect that you will receive a warm welcome out of the unfaithful. When you preach the gospel, people are going to become your enemies. In this sense, Jesus' came to bring a sword. The warning of Micah describing the unfaithful holds true here. Even among families, there will be division. This is the typical response of the unfaithful. So Micah's description of the unfaithful apply to the situation where disciples would be going into the very houses of the unfaithful to preach the gospel, and they were to be aware as to how the unfaithful would respond to this preaching. So in essence, that is the reason Jesus quotes from Micah.

One further question presents itself. What applicability does this passage have, if any, today? While the passage specifically addressed what the twelve disciples were to do on the limited commission, we can learn from both Micah and from this passage what the attitude of the unfaithful will be. When it comes to preaching the gospel, the unfaithful will not want anything to do with it. They will oppose it. They will reject it. They will even sever family ties over it if they disapprove of it. It is our responsibility, however, to preach the gospel regardless of what kind of problems that may cause. So this passage serves as a warning to us as well regarding what kind of attitudes we should expect from some people in regard to the preaching and teaching of the truth. We should also note that Jesus mentions that some will respond in a positive way to the gospel. Notice verses 40-42, "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward."

Matthew 5:17-19

The context here is that this was towards the beginning of Jesus' ministry; Jesus – having resisted Satan's temptation (Matthew 4:1-11), thereby effectively reducing his power to deceive (Matthew 10:1; Luke 10:17-20), was now ready to give more detailed teaching to His disciples, many of whom would be instrumental in laying the foundations of the Church. Matthew, chapters 5 through 7, contains the famous Sermon on the Mount which effectively outlines The Law of Christ and a whole new approach toward law which Christians would very much need to understand. Soon Jesus would seriously challenge the Jew's traditional understanding of the commandments and of the law in general (Matthew 5:21-48) in the six famous 'You have heard...but I say...' type-statements, but – first of all – Jesus wanted to ensure that the disciples correctly understood that the Old Testament still held a valid place in the Scriptures.

The 'Law and the Prophets' which Jesus refers to in verse 17 is a clear reference to the Hebrew Bible – what we now call the Old Testament. This was known as 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' – 'The Law' was the Torah (the 5 Books of Moses), The Prophets (self-explanatory) and the 'Writings' were the wisdom books (Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes etc). So this is a reference to the validity of the Old Testament: the Old Testament continues to have validity, it is and aways will be divinely-inspired Scripture! Jesus would soon make some quite sensational comments as He outlined how the New Covenant would be dramatically different to the 'ministration written on stones', but He first wished to ensure that His listeners correctly understood the ongoing validity of the Old Testament as Holy Scripture! (Sometimes the Old Testament was called 'The Law and the Prophets' but at other times 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' - compare Matthew 5:17 with Matthew 7:12, Luke 16:16-17 and Romans 3:21. Also check out Luke 24:27,44. In verse 44 the Old Testament is described as 'the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms').

The 'Law and the Prophets' which Jesus refers to in verse 17 is a clear reference to the Hebrew Bible – what we now call the Old Testament. This was known as 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' – 'The Law' was the Torah (the 5 Books of Moses), The Prophets (self-explanatory) and the 'Writings' were the wisdom books (Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes etc). So this is a reference to the validity of the Old Testament: the Old Testament continues to have validity, it is and aways will be divinely-inspired Scripture! Jesus would soon make some quite sensational comments as He outlined how the New Covenant would be dramatically different to the 'ministration written on stones', but He first wished to ensure that His listeners correctly understood the ongoing validity of the Old Testament as Holy Scripture! (Sometimes the Old Testament was called 'The Law and the Prophets' but at other times 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' - compare Matthew 5:17 with Matthew 7:12, Luke 16:16-17 and Romans 3:21. Also check out Luke 24:27,44. In verse 44 the Old Testament is described as 'the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms').

The 'Law and the Prophets' which Jesus refers to in verse 17 is a clear reference to the Hebrew Bible – what we now call the Old Testament. This was known as 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' – 'The Law' was the Torah (the 5 Books of Moses), The Prophets (self-explanatory) and the 'Writings' were the wisdom books (Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes etc). So this is a reference to the validity of the Old Testament: the Old Testament continues to have validity, it is and aways will be divinely-inspired Scripture! Jesus would soon make some quite sensational comments as He outlined how the New Covenant would be dramatically different to the 'ministration written on stones', but He first wished to ensure that His listeners correctly understood the ongoing validity of the Old Testament as Holy Scripture! (Sometimes the Old Testament was called 'The Law and the Prophets' but at other times 'The Law, Prophets and Writings' - compare Matthew 5:17 with Matthew 7:12, Luke 16:16-17 and Romans 3:21. Also check out Luke 24:27,44. In verse 44 the Old Testament is described as 'the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms').

So if Jesus had used modern English in verse 17, He might have said something like...

'Do not think that I have come to overturn/destroy the authority of the Old Testament – in fact, I have come to fulfil the things in the Old Testament'

Some mistakenly think that this statement addresses whether Christians should still keep the law and spend many hours arguing about what 'fulfil' means, when it should be obvious to all of us what that word means!

Verse 18 corroborates that Jesus had been referring to Holy Scripture in the preceding verse by His comment that 'one jot or tittle' will by no means pass from the Law. 'One jot' means the smallest written letter. In English we sometimes say, 'It doesn't make one iota of difference' – referring to a small Greek letter. This is the Greek equivalent to the smallest Hebrew letter, 'yodh' which Jesus undoubtedly had in mind since He was discussing the Old Testament, written of course in Hebrew. What about 'tittle'? This refers to the stroke involved in writing just part of a letter (such as crossing one's 't's in English) – actually this is all made completely clear in the NIV Bible, where it is rendered,

'I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.'

Again, let us remind ourselves that Jesus obviously challenged much of what the Pharisees and scribes said and did and - in this very chapter - He would soon make some amazing statements about a new understanding of law – so He initially tells His listeners, and you and I today, that, despite everything, the Old Testament must continue to be considered as 'Holy Writ'. Indeed He Himself would fulfil numerous things written therein. Jesus was concerned that we should all continue to learn about, and to be inspired, by people like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and the Prophets – indeed so many things in the Old Testament continually point to Jesus. So the Old Covenant might be dead, but the Old Testament must not be put aside.

Oh, the other point to mention is that Jesus just says 'Law' in verse 18 however the context leaves us in no doubt that He continues to discuss what we call the Old Testament. It could be argued that since Jesus only mentions 'Law' in verse 18 He is only referring to the Torah here but there is no reason to assume that – the context has already clearly been established in the previous verse, Jesus is referring to the Old Testament Scriptures; He chooses to say 'Law' because He is summarizing in this verse.

The word 'commandments' (Greek, 'entolay' - '1785' in Strongs) indeed refers loosely to the 'commandments', but it is a little loose and can refer to other instructions. It can certainly refer to the Ten Commandments (Matthew 10:19; Luke 18:20), but in Colossians 4:10 it means 'instructions' where Paul refers to instructions concerning Barnabas, Mark and Aristarchus. In Titus 1:14 it refers to 'the commandments of men' - NKJV, ('the commands of those who reject the truth' - NIV). Today we might say, 'the rules' or 'standards' of those who reject the truth.

To digress just for one moment, we may note that the Apostle John has a huge preference to use 'entolay' when referring to the teachings of Jesus and to the great moral and spiritual law which lies behind the Ten Commandments, yet which is infinitely greater than it – the 'Law of Christ' – which is what Jesus expounds in Matthew 5-7. There are many examples of John's use of this word, just notice John 14:15,21 and every appearance of 'commandments' in his First Epistle (usually rendered 'commands' in the NIV). Many carelessly assume that these are references to the Ten Commandments as a code - when they patently are often not. Finally, John defines his own use of 'entolay' in 1 John 3:22-23:

'And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.'

This comment by John certainly does not rule out that he would ever use 'entolay' when discussing the Ten Commandments, but it does show that he understands the word in a broad, rather than in a specific, sense.

But back to Matthew 5: In verse 19, Jesus could have said, 'Whoever breaks even the smallest part of the law (nomos), and teaches men so...' but He plainly decided not to do so, preferring to use 'commandments' (entolay) which is broader and may mean the Ten Commandments or any divine teaching instructions or admonitions from God to Mankind (in this context-type).

But – certainly - We must understand that 'entolay' does not mean 'law' - The Greek word used for 'law' in the New Testament is almost invariably 'nomos' (word '3551' in Strongs).

So when Jesus says, 'Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments...' is He necessarily referring to Old Covenant law, or to the Ten Commandments specifically? After all, He is talking about the ongoing importance of the Old Testament Scriptures here. I would say no, although He may well have had the Ten Commandments somewhat in mind - yet there are clear difficulties here - Which commandment of the ten would be 'the least of these commandments' ? Certainly He is clearly not discussing the whole package of Old Covenant law in view of the comments He would later make in this chapter, and comments which people like Paul would later be inspired to make. Therefore I suggest that Jesus is simply discussing whether or not one is obedient toward God and to His revelation to Mankind; He backs up the authority of the Old Testament and is telling us that we should also back up its authority (It is true, of course, that the era of the 'Law and Prophets' has now passed and many things in the Old Testament may no longer be applicable to Christians – as Luke makes very clear in Luke 16:16). The point is: are we willing to obey God and walk in faith towards divine commands and instructions and admonitions – even what may appear to be more minor ones? This is surely what Jesus' central point is here!

Starling....there are many more scriptures that you listed, but time will not permit for me to expound on them all right now.

I will say that one can come to all types of conclusions when reading the Bible. However, I believe that we must study the Bible over and over.

For proper understanding of the Bible, we must study and know the following:

What book of the Bible we are reading.

Who wrote that Book of the Bible.

When was that book of the Bible written.

What was taken place during that time period.

Who was the writer speaking to.....

We have to know the Who, What, When, Where, Why and How....without that, it is hard to make an accurate account and get the true meaning of the scriptures...and it becomes very easy to misinterperate the scriptures.

The Bible was not written in one specific year or in a single location. The Bible is a collection of writings, and the earliest ones were set down nearly 3500 years ago. So let's start at the beginning of this fascinating story.

The first five books of the Bible are attributed to Moses and are commonly called the Pentateuch (literally "five scrolls").

Moses lived between 1500 and 1300 BC, though he recounts events in the first eleven chapters of the Bible that occurred long before his time (such as the creation and the flood).

These earliest accounts were handed on from generation to generation in songs, narratives, and poetry.

In those early societies there was no writing as yet and people passed on these oral accounts with great detail and accuracy.

The earliest writing began when symbols were scratched or pressed on clay tablets. The Egyptians refined this technique and developed an early form of writing known as hieroglyphics. The Bible tells us that Moses was "educated in all the learning of the Egyptians", so he would have been familiar with the major writing systems of his time. We also read that God gave Moses "two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God"(Exodus 31:18). All this leads to the conclusion that the earliest writings in the Bible were set down around 1400 BC.

The writings of the thirty or so other contributors to the Old Testament span a thousand years! They recount the times and messages from Moses' successor, Joshua, to the last of the Old Testament prophets, Malachi, who wrote his little tract around 450 BC.

Then there is a 500-year period when no writings were contributed to the Bible. This is the period between the testaments, when Alexander the Great conquered much of the world and when the Greek language was introduced to the Hebrews. Indeed, they began to use Greek so much that the Hebrew language was replaced by Greek and by another language, Aramaic, which was spoken all over that area of the world at that time.

The New Testament was written during a much shorter period, i.e. during the last half of the first century AD.

It was the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, which ignited the flame that produced the New Testament, as the new faith swept across the Near East and then westward to Greece and on to Rome.

Half of the New Testament books were contributed by one man, the Apostle Paul, in the epistles he sent to groups of new Christians and to his assistants Timothy and Titus.

The Bible closes with a majestic book of visions and dramatic views of the future. It was penned by the aged Apostle John around 95 AD and describes the new heaven and the new earth when God's kingdom will embrace the universe and all rebellion and death will be a thing of the past.

In looking at all these dates, the important thing to remember is that when the Bible was written is not as important as what was written. However, the when is important also as we sense how God's presence persisted through the centuries and gave us "in the fullness of time" the full-orbed revelation of salvation and hope through his son Jesus Christ.

Many people contributed to the writing of the Bible. Actually the Bible is a collection of writings from about forty contributors, thirty in the Old Testament and ten in the New Testament. For example, the Psalms are a collection of the works of several authors, of whom David, the "sweet singer of Israel", is the best known. But psalms were also written by Moses, by Asaph, by a man named Ethan, and by the sons of Korah.

The accounts which have been preserved in the Old Testament date from the earliest times and were both written down and transmitted orally. As time passed they were collected together and received by the Hebrews as coming to them by God's mandate. The prophets transmit God's message to humans, while many of the Psalms articulate cries of people to God. Yet these psalms are also preserved in the Bible as part of God's message to mankind.

The New Testament stories and teachings were widely circulated among the early Christian churches. The letters of Paul to the Christians in several cities were likely the earliest writings now found in the New Testament. But many other letters and epistles were circulated as well. Gradually it became clear to the early churches which writings were truly inspired and which were spurious or simply edifying messages from pious authors.

It is truly amazing that all forty of these authors, spread out over 1600 years, have such a unified message in spite of their great diversity in language, culture and time. There is a reason for that! The reason is that these forty or so writers are all secondary authors. There is actually only one primary author, the one who inspired all the human authors, the eternal God.

Christians believe that the Bible came to us from God himself, who used all these human authors to give us his message, through the presence and inspiration of his Spirit. He did not simply give dictation to these authors, because we observe their unique personalities and varying styles of writing shining through. But God's message, God's authorship, is always there, providing in the end through all the years, exactly what he wanted us to have. In this way the Bible is our own ageless treasure.

The Bible is the account of God's action in the world and his purpose with all creation. The writing of the Bible took place over sixteen centuries and is the work of over forty human authors. It is a quite amazing collection of 66 books with very different styles all containing the message God desired us to have.

This compilation of booklets contains an astonishing variety of literary styles. It provides many stories about the lives of good and bad people, about battles and journeys, about the life of Jesus along with letters written to groups of Christians that met in homes. It comes to us in narratives and dialogues, in proverbs and parables, in songs and allegories, in history and prophecy.

The accounts in the Bible were not generally written down as they occurred. Rather they were told over and over again and handed down through the years before someone finally wrote them down. Yet the same themes may be found throughout the book.

So along with the diversity there is also a remarkable unity. So what is the Bible? Well, in addition to all the above, the Bible is this:

It is a guide for living life to the full. It gives us a road map for the perilous journey of life. Or to put it another way, on our voyage through life's ocean, we find our anchor right here.

It is a storehouse of wonderful stories for children and grownups. Remember Noah and the ark? Joseph's coat of many colors? Daniel in the lion's den? Jonah and the fish? The parables of Jesus? In these stories we recognize the triumphs and failures of ordinary people - and we may even see ourselves!

It is a refuge in trouble. People in pain, in suffering, in prison, in mourning, tell how they turned to the Bible and found strength there in their desperate hours.

It is a treasury of insight as to who we are. We are not meaningless robots, but we are magnificent creatures of a God who loves us and gives us a purpose and a destiny.

It is a sourcebook for everyday living. We find standards for our conduct, guidelines for knowing right from wrong, principles to help us in a confused society where so often "anything goes."

The Bible addresses many basic issues of life and death, of the present and the future, and so it is difficult to select just one theme as the main one. Students of the Bible have generally grouped the leading topics treated in the Bible under two main heads. Let's look briefly at both of them.

The first school suggests that the main message of the Bible is the wonderful presentation of salvation. The good news of salvation in Jesus Christ is the fundamental message of the Scripture. Under this head there are many basic truths:

God created a majestic universe and crowned it by forming the first man and woman in sinless perfection.

Adam and Eve succumbed to temptation from Satan, and fell into sin and shame. The consequences of sin are obvious, but people everywhere still love to rebel against God.

Yet God did not abandon humanity on its course to destruction. He chose one people to demonstrate his special care and from them to provide a Savior for the whole world.

God sent his own son Jesus Christ to bear the awesome consequences of sin. God does not just blithely disregard sin, but he poured out all the terror of eternal condemnation on his son in those terrible hours of suffering and death on the cross.

In the resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates his victory over sin and calls people everywhere to identify with this victory by faith in Jesus Christ.

In living in this salvation, we know that life is not meaningless, but we live surrounded by God's love, and bound for eternity with him.

The second school of thought views the main message of the Bible from a much different perspective. These readers agree that salvation is certainly very important, but it is only part of a much greater message. That bigger message goes far beyond the man-centered focus of salvation to embrace the purpose of all time and space. We may call this message the revelation of God's plan and purpose for the universe. Under this head there are also many basic truths:

God in his dynamic and creative essence resolved to create the universe and delight in it.

However, God is not the sole transcendent being. There is a rebellious and fallen being named Satan who opposes God and his plan. He deceives and undermines God's purpose everywhere.

This conflict marks all history and results in two kingdoms. Satan foments disorder and all that is bizarre and sinister. Quarreling and dissension among God's people is often his most horrid device.

In sending his son Jesus Christ, God established the decisive hour in this conflict. In his servanthood, Jesus was the opposite of all the pomp, pride, greed and egoism that Satan promotes.

In Christ's death, Satan declared victory over God, but the resurrection turned that seeming victory into actual defeat.

Satan still prowls the world, but he realizes he cannot win. God's people are now heralds of his present and coming kingdom. Gradually the contours of the final conflict emerge across the world.

Eventually evil so captivates and enslaves humanity that the climactic end time of history arrives. Finally, Christ returns to earth as the victor and God's kingdom is established for all eternity. The purpose of God's creation and universal plan is achieved.

Both these majestic messages are found in the Bible. They are simply two perspectives on one majestic theme: God's Plan For His People And His Cosmic Kingdom. What is your heart's response to his message?

Is the Bible inspired? And what does that mean? Christians do believe that the Bible is inspired, but not nearly everyone is clear as to what that means. The Bible itself says in 2 Timothy 3:16, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” Did you catch that word “God-breathed”? That’s the biblical term to describe what is meant by the inspiration of God’s Word. But how did God “breathe”, that is, just how did he give the writers of the Bible his message?

Some Christians believe that God dictated the Bible word for word in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, and that the writers were simply secretaries who recorded those words. But there are two big problems with this view.

First of all, as we look at the writing styles of the various human authors, it is clear that their personalities are very much in evidence in what they write. There is no mechanical word-for-word dictation going on here.

For example, the apostle Paul wrote with long, complicated sentences, and our English translations generally put them into shorter sentences so we can more clearly understand them. However, Mark wrote his Gospel using short, action-packed sentences that race along in a much different way.

While the Gospel of John also covers the life of Jesus, his description of Jesus’ life, words, and deeds comes from a much different point of view than Luke. Yet both were transmitting the inspired message which God gave them.

That is why most Christians conclude that God provided the precise thought to the human author, and he then wrote it down in terms of his own vocabulary, culture, education, and writing style. So we have here no wooden, single-colored document, but a many-faceted and dynamic book.

The second problem with the word-for-word view of inspiration is that many of the Psalms (and other passages) are the cries of imperfect, suffering people, who are voicing their own complaints or praises to God. They are words and thoughts emanating directly from the hearts of God’s people, which he in turn allowed to be placed in the Bible so we could identify with these complaining, suffering or rejoicing people who are so much like us. God used their words and thoughts.

For those reasons many Christians believe that inspiration should be described as thought-for-thought rather than word-for-word. The human writers provide God’s message in terms of their own personalities and historical circumstances, and yet they transmit the message fully and exactly as God desired. So we can call this view of inspiration “dynamic”, as well as “verbal” (extending to the very words of the writer) and “plenary” (meaning that the Bible is fully and totally inspired.)

There's a third view of inspiration, too. This view asserts that the writers of the Bible were indeed inspired, but so were many great artists, musicians, and authors. Some superhuman, transcendent, divine aura possessed them and they produced works of sheer genius.

This is not what most Christians mean when they refer to inspiration.

Rather, Christians believe that the message God gave us in the Bible is unique, and in fact, infallible.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit who so guided the writers of the Scripture that they gave us, in their unique manner, exactly the message God intended.

So we can say that the Bible is a very human book, for we see in it both elegance and lack of polish, both finesse and struggle. But it is a divine book as well, for it is the only book in all the world that is truly "God-breathed". It is humanity's precious gift from God. Is it your guide for time and eternity?

Many brilliant people deny that the Bible is true, so obviously sheer intelligence is not the key to faith in the Bible. Jesus gives us an insight when he said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32, NIV) That sense of freedom in your soul which Jesus mentions is one way to gauge the truth of the Bible. That is, you'll be free from the horrible compulsion that you have to earn God's approval. You'll be free from fear about your eternal destiny, and free from the grip of slavery to your pride. In other words, the results in your life will demonstrate the truth of your faith! Mere intelligence alone can never give that freedom.

But let's look at what we mean by "truth" in talking about the Bible. Some scholars have a field day describing how archaic and out of date the Bible is. Here are some typical examples of what these scholars claim the Bible teaches:

the sun revolves around the earth,

historical data and many statistics are inaccurate,

polygamy, slavery, and anti-Semitism are condoned,

women are demeaned,

pillaging the environment is of minimal concern.

Notice that these issues are of two kinds. First, there is the matter of factual accuracy. While this does bother some scholars of a scientific bent, we need to remember that the Bible's intention is not to instruct about scientific data, but rather about God's plan and the salvation of people. So, for example, we do not expect that the Bible will tell us if the days of creation were exactly 24 hours long or covered much longer periods (the Hebrew word for day, "yom", permits either reading). Such matters are outside the intent of what the authors (and the Holy Spirit who inspired them) wanted to communicate. It is unreasonable to expect that authors writing three thousand years ago would write in the terminology and categories of the 21st century.

The other kinds of issues are moral ones, such as slavery, which is not specifically condemned in the Bible. However, the moral tone of the Bible is such that slavery would fade away as the standards of love and justice proclaimed by Christ are upheld. The place of women, aliens, prisoners, and the disabled, is elevated in Scripture. The worship of one God in a world of many deities stands out as a call to people to turn away from idols and temple prostitution to purity and a consecrated life.

So indeed there are factual difficulties in the Bible - as we remember that it was begun over three thousand years ago and took sixteen centuries to complete. What is truly amazing is that there is a deeper unity of purpose and message throughout the entire book! God's plan for his people and the universe is clearly spelled out. His love and purpose are unmistakable. On the very deepest level this is ageless truth. We are called upon to confess with John, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17) This is the truth that answers our heart's cry. And how can you know it's true?

Again this answer is on two levels.

The first is the reliability of the underlying documents. On this level the evidence is utterly astonishing. No other volume in the world has even a small percentage of ancient manuscripts, parchments, papyri, and other documents which antedate the printing press. They number over five thousand! In the terrible days of persecution by the Roman emperors, many of the precious copies of the Scriptures were destroyed by imperial edict. Yet several were kept in secret and so God's Word was preserved throughout the centuries. It is also remarkable that the thousands of underlying documents agree to such a surprising extent. We may be sure that even today we have the authentic Bible.

But there is another level of our acceptance of the truth of the Bible. This is a faith issue, and it is interwoven with all of God's work in our lives. There is a way in which God's call on our lives nudges us toward faith and life. We can resist and object. We can listen to the dozens of doubts and objections the Enemy puts before us. As Dr. Bill Bright has said, for those who do not believe the Bible, it is not because they are unable to believe, rather they are unwilling to believe. But as we are open to God's voice, we hear his mandate growing more clear as he calls, "Believe!" This is a level beyond mere factual analysis. It is the level of faith where we finally respond, "I believe! Help my unbelief!"

I hope this helps you.

Calling gays, Jews and the Koran evil? We label them Fundamentalists…

but you know me - we've talked about alot of stuff over the last couple of years, haven't we.

I just think it's really good that you are searching. And I think you've got a right to feel that alot of the 'religious' folks are full of the proverbial brown stuff. Because they pretty much are. Jesus thought so too.

He really didn't think too much of organized religion in his time. And the government and religious leaders didn't approve of him either.

The first miracle he did was to show up at a wedding and turn all the water into wine. The Pharisees (religious leaders of his day) called he and his friends drunkards :-)

SOoooooo let me ask you a question - does this sound anything like the Jesus you've heard about?

Because the world and many religious folks tell alot of lies about who he really is. And he said that they would.

I can tell you one thing for sure starling - if you're this frustrated, he must be alot more frustrated that you were frustrated, in his own name :-)

Something that has puzzled me for many years, no disrespect, but when the tablets were handed down, Jesus was not yet born.

The Commandments state that: I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not have any strange gods before me.

The tablets were given to Moses from God.

How can a later person be then, Lord, when the tablets and rules were handed down from God, before the later person was elevated to Lord.

I've read the words, listened to the words and spoken with people about the words, and yet there is this, what appears on the surface to be a conflict.

But then again, with the absoluteness of many of the statements, a person who questions even in a good way, is wrong, straight away.

to madjack - how will those of other beliefs fare as far as going to Heaven?

That's a good question, and begs the next: What about infants, small children, people who have never heard of the Lord, such as rain forest pygmies or isolated Inuit tribes? Do they get a free pass?

My answer is: I don't know for sure. I've had people explain to me that the Bible is very clear, and there is no other way into Heaven except through the Lord Jesus. I also have been given to understand that you are only responsible for what you've heard. So, for instance, if you've never heard of Christianity, you aren't liable.

It is my own considered opinion that the majority of these people who are eligible (they've heard about Jesus in terms that they can understand) and who have seen fit to reject the Lord Jesus and His offer to take their punishment in their stead, these people are not going to Heaven. However, there may be exceptions granted on a case by case basis. Also, we can't know what a person sees as we pass from this life to the next, and according to the scripture all that is required is a single cry for help, and help will certainly be forthcoming.

hey kate, was that the shortened version of your post. :) i think you missed a few points, ever thought of writing a book. :) sorry, i had to pick one you, you know it's all in love. :)