Why I have problems with Religion (other than the fact that the Bible was re-written, re-translated, so many times - a grocery list couldn't have survived that much re-writes intact).
Advocate child abuse and murder amongst many other cruelties.
Christians are always claiming, “he’s the lamb”, “our savior”, “the king of peace”, “the embodiment of love”, amongst the many other names they associate with a loving, merciful nature. Jesus a nice guy? Not in my book. Nor in any other person’s who is capable of compassion and rationality. Let’s examine who the hell the Jesus character really is. These verses will show not only is Jesus’ “loving” nature a joke but so are the Christians who worship him. Jesus’ real mission to come to earth:
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34
Jesus says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. “The real beauty of this verse is that Jesus demands people truly love him more then they love their own family. I ask you how can we love someone that we can not see or interact with? Love is an emotion pertaining to physical existence not to faithful ideologies, yet God threatens you with Death just because your love for your mother maybe stronger than your love for him. Matthew 10:34
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17
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Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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Contradictions of the Bible & Other Biblical Evils
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm
For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called “God” of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.
It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK. If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.
Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.
Exterminate 7 Nations
"You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?' But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little. You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all." (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
http://www.evilbible.com/
And RAPE & SLAVERY
If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “...they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)? Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered. The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men." Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?
The Bible advocates Slavery -
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing. When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible
(Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?)
http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
... Even more peculiar is God's obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that "consecrate" means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping. Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers. What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom? A kidnapper! If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham...
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Why Many "Christians" are hypocrites -
Another tenet clearly prohibits women from being ministers or otherwise speaking in church (“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak”-- 1 Corinthians 14:34).
Christian women are supposed to dress discreetly (“...that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire”--l Timothy 2:9 RSV; and “Let not yours be the outward adorning of braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing”-- 1 Peter 3 :3). Violations of these rules are too numerous to mention. Just visualize Tammy Faye Baker’s mascara laden eyes and gold encrusted wrists.
Believers are supposed to hate their parents when they follow Jesus (“If any man come to me, and not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sister, yet, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26). Well, considering that Christians do not abandon their families but usually attempt to brainwash them they are all guilty of not following this verse. “It’s symbolic”, yeah, I know.
Christians are not supposed to plan or prepare. God will provide (“Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or that ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on... Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, not gather into barns; yet your heavenly father feedth them. Are ye not much better than they?” --Matthew 6:25-34 & Luke 12:22-31 inclusive).
Money cannot be lent at interest to your brother, only to foreigners (Deuteronomy 23: 19-20) Ahhh, I’m recalling all the Christian banking corporations....
Eating pork is forbidden (Deuteronomy 14:8). Hmm, I’ve never met a Christian who DIDN’T enjoy bacon and eggs.
A man must marry and have relations with his dead brother’s wife (Deuteronomy 25:5-6). This goes without explaining of course.
A seducer must marry an unengaged virgin whom he seduces (Exodus 22:16-17)
A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). What justice the “moral majority” advocates!
There are several petty and silly little verses in the O.T., but none the less, they are to be followed. I guess it’s okay to disobey the lord for fashion’s sake. Beards can’t be rounded (Leviticus 19:27); A garment composed of wool and linen can’t be worn (Deuteronomy 22:11); Note: this explains why you will commonly see orthodox Jews with the long beards and black clothing. I say Christians should do this too so we can identify their stupidity upon first impression.
Bastards can’t enter the Lord’s congregation. (Deuteronomy 23:2) Hey, I know this is harsh, but God commands it, hence it must be “just”.
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"Why I Am Not A Christian" (not my words, but I agree with the writer.)
http://www.evilbible.com/why_i_am_not_a_christian.htm
I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil. Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things”. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?...
...Now God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil. It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains. Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world. All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept. Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people? Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes? The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at. People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism....
...I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy. I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian God he/she believes in. A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system. A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as God in their blindness and faith. For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality..
There are much in the Bible that conflicts the 10 Commandments & that condone horrific things like sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes....
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The Biblical God is NOT pro-life, he advocates child murder, infanticide, child abuse and abortion:
http://www.evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm
...I see so many Christians talking about abortion being a crime against God. It’s not a wonder that they are hard pressed to find a conclusive biblical statement to corroborate their position. In their determination to control women they have been forced to rely on exceedingly weak sections such as “thou shall not kill”,”I kneweth thou in the womb” and their favorite: “When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth...“--Exodus 21:22-24 The problem here is that the man who injures a pregnant woman in the process, shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted on her, not the fetus. I am often dumbfounded at how Christians can assume that abortion is wrong judging by these feeble verses when the Bible clearly advocates infanticide and many other atrocities against children and pregnant women. I can no longer allow such ignorance of the Bible and deem it necessary to expose the true agenda. I am tired of the many young Christians who are brainwashed by their clergy. They are only taught the “love and mercy” parts of the Bible and never bother to read what is not so openly preached . The Church thrives off of speaking in half truths and concealing their blood soaked robes. Of course my job as preacher of an Atheist parish is to give a sermon about those things that the Bible TRUTHFULLY commands. Here they are, god’s views on the unborn, the actions of righteous men” and god’s commands of infanticide and child abuse: (note-There are Torah verses in this list but I will not attack the Jewish faith for being pro-life since they are not rampant advocates of the matter.)
ABORTION:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
INFANTCIDE:
1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.
THE MURDERING OF CHILDREN:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.
Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?
Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.
2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.
Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.
I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.
Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.
Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.
Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.
CHILD ABUSE:
Genesis 22:9 & 10 “And they came to the place which God had told him of and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.” It matters not that god let Abraham get out of murdering Isaac. To put a knife up to your son’s throat is child abuse.
I Kings 3:24-25 “And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other." This test was of course given to see who the real mother of the child was. Christians view this king as a wise man. I look upon his suggestion with far more revulsion then I give accredit to Susan Smith.
Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children.
Matthew 19:29 If you really loved Jesus then he insists that you abandon your wife and children for him. Only that way will he allow you to go to heaven. (That is if you meet his other hefty requirements, don’t slip through the loopholes, and ignore the contradictions.)
Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.
* In conclusion I shall end this list with a verse that should keep the pro lifers in check. It is Romans 13: 1-7
t you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes, if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
Clearly it is the job of Christians to obey the laws, and the laws of this country clearly state that abortion is legal. So too should Christians respect and honor that law. God commands them to NOT disobey, which entails attempting to get the law overturned. If god wanted abortion to be illegal he wouldn’t have appointed authorities to make it legal.
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WWJD?
Advocate child abuse and murder amongst many other cruelties.
http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm
Christians are always claiming, “he’s the lamb”, “our savior”, “the king of peace”, “the embodiment of love”, amongst the many other names they associate with a loving, merciful nature. Jesus a nice guy? Not in my book. Nor in any other person’s who is capable of compassion and rationality. Let’s examine who the hell the Jesus character really is. These verses will show not only is Jesus’ “loving” nature a joke but so are the Christians who worship him. Jesus’ real mission to come to earth:
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34
Jesus says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. “The real beauty of this verse is that Jesus demands people truly love him more then they love their own family. I ask you how can we love someone that we can not see or interact with? Love is an emotion pertaining to physical existence not to faithful ideologies, yet God threatens you with Death just because your love for your mother maybe stronger than your love for him. Matthew 10:34
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17...
Starling02,
I have decided that you are very well versed in these matters and it is probably beyond anyone's power to change your mind. I do, however, feel bad for you since it is clear someone has poisoned your mind against even the possiblity of a power higher than your own in anyway that resembles a Christian God.
I am curious, however, as to what, if any, interaction you have had with Christians. I mean this not to be combatative, I am just interested in hearing how all of this information and these opinions were gathered for you.
If you're going to throw out the Old and New Testaments based on their reliability and historicity you're going to have to throw out Herodotus, Tacitus, Pliny, Plato Thucydides, and the rest of the classical writings of the ancient world because those are much less accurate and reliable. There is much less manuscript evidence for those than the Bible. Nobody disputes those ancient writings, which have very little manuscript evidence, while many dispute the Biblical writings which have much more.
See this essay: The Jury Returns: A Juridicial Defense of Christianity by John Warwick Mongtomery
Are the New Testament Documents Reliable? by F.F. Bruce
Also A General Introduction to the Bible by Norman L. Geisler and William Nix
When you've read those, then you will at least have some way to intelligently argue against facts and evidence.
Montgomery from the perspective of a legal scholar, founder of the Simon Greenleaf School of Law (now University) and Lutheran theologian, said:
Montgomery continues:
I never knew you had that much anger in you.
I mean, I figured out that you and Darkseid were very unhappy people a long time ago, but I never thought your anger and unhappiness ran this deep.
I have a client on my caseload in Florida that suffers from the same sort of repressed anger and unhappiness that you appear to.
Would you like to meet this person ? Perhaps some good ' I hate everybody ' conversations between you two could help alleviate the pain that you are both experiencing.
What the hell- Make it a threesome, I'll even include Darkseid - LET THE VENOM FLOW ! ! ! !!
Contrary to popular belief...just mincing holier-than-thou troll bastards who always feel they're superior to Starling and I...you know, people like you.
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"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.
I thought that you were under an 'Involuntary Committment Order' from Probate Court for 90 days out at NorthCoast Behavioral.
Where have you been hiding all your venom ?
Are you ready to enroll in my 'Re-Education Center' ?
Would you mind sharing a room with BrianInVero
for a few months while you are at the Center ?
Seems you two have a lot in common.
I highly disagree but you are entitled to your own opinion.
You truly believe there is a God?
Show me one thing that hasn't been created by man that indicates there is a "God".
The Bible? The Koran? Written and re-written by mortals.
And that's all you have.
I just love how christians want to shove their point of view down your throat when you don't see through their eyes.
BrianInVeroFL.....
You can answer your own question.....TAKE A BREATH!
Colossians 1:16-17, "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."
A billion or so years ago there was this gigantic "boom" and a bunch of rocks were strewn throughout the universe.
Factual statement back by "proof".
Where did the hydogen and other matter come from that produced this gigantic "boom"?
Where did "god" come from?
I'd be Time's "Man of the Year".
Good question.
Which is more plausible, an infinite and eternal being called God, or infinite and eternal matter created by mere chance?
If eternal matter, then the universe must have always been here and wouldn't be running out of energy.
Of course, some solipsist would argue that the universe is just an illusion.
What should be remembered is whatever chance can create, it also can destroy.
We evolved to think in a linear fashion, so we tend to need a "beginning" and an "end". But it's true that matter just changes form. Some say that the universe is just a series of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. It's thought that the "Big Bang" started from a singularity. What if this singularity was a result of a previous universe collapsing under it's own weight?
Now you have asked him a question to back up his wild claim.
Don't wait for an answer. He is incapable of backing anything up, or even answering questions.
He just moves on to his next rant.
are you saying God made them?
During my research in my youngin days, I've found things which basically couldn't be explained. This is one of them. Which is why I avoid these types of threads.
I wasn't around when the universe was created. I have the fundamentals about how but I have nothing more to back it up except for the science and research of understanding the measurements of time and velocity.
With that being said, men more educated in this field have been able to provide proof that this universe was formed billions and billions of years ago. The age of man didn't come about until around 200,000 to 250,000 years ago., which pretty much devalues the "Adam and Eve" concept when you "age" our species.
But for my beliefs, combined with alllllllll those differing beliefs across our world, the only similarity with there being a good place and a bad place "to spend eternity" does not reinforce the existance of God as you know Him to be to me.
No, I'm not saying God made them.
All I'm asking is where did the hydrogen and other matter come from in order for a big bang to take place?
So are you saying that that stuff just spontaneously emerged from nothing?
mr. jayott, waiting for an intelligible response from this person. It is his m.o. to just hurl stuff out there to make himself feel like he is a part of the action. We used to call them 'joiners'. They will do anything for attention.
He has never once answered any of my questions for proof or substance. He just 'flips the script' and will start with his name-calling as soon as he wakes up from last nites drinking escapade.
He didn't get in until 5 a.m. ooooh, such a hangover ! !
el mahico,
I see. O.K. so he's just rehashing the arguments of Keith Parsons, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens et. al.
Fortunately, people such as William Lane Craig and others have done much of the heavy lifting and none of them so far have been able to answer.
Gee, sounds like the way our city council and our mayor operate doesn't it?
I've already explained I'm not "involved" in researching your beliefs, how they evolved or whatnot, and I've made myself clear that the universe was formed way before I was born, so unless you have refutable proof otherwise, I'd suggest you calm down before I ask you to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt where your "God" is.
And Him being in the Bible is not an answer.
El Moron has the "poisoned mind" and you're going to compare Starling's perspective on that?
I can tell you I've successfully completed my path through life without once giving credit to "God". I don't rely on a diety nor do I believe in a higher power that guides me. And I'm ok with that.
But to declare someone with a "poisoned mind" because they don't believe in what you believe is just sad.
One does not have to give credit to God for Him to exist... Your disbelief had NO bearing on whether God exists. My belief in Him has no bearing either. Either God exists or He doesn't, and saying you don't believe is not helpful in any way when one is attempting to debate the existence of God.
Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel and their sisters incestuously populated the planet, it says so in The Bible...
There is no God, and you have no proof, except for your Faith.
Brian, is it? I'm not entirely sure who you think you are, but you have no grounds on which to declare that I have no proof of God's existence. I could offer my arguments for the existence of a First Cause and a Higher Being and my thought processes by which I came to the conclusion that that is the God of the Bible. I can also list the contradictions with the belief that there is no God. It is a logical impossibility.
You, however, are combative and clearly incapable of an honest exchange of ideas and I will not waste my breath.
In the future, do not make assumptions on my beliefs... you will likely be wrong.
BrianInVeroFL....
Perhaps you need to reread Genesis 1 and 2.
Genesis chapter 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis chapter 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
please don't offer your insight to me about your faith.
You can preach to me till the cows come home and I'm not going to believe in your God.
I think I've been respectful enough by capitalizing His name for you christian folks.
But I can offer you one thing that you don't have about our existance.
Proof.
Besides, men of cloth, aren't you folks supposed to take an oath of poverty when putting that collar on?
BrianInveroFL....
First and foremost, it is interesting how you can post on a public message board, and then tell another person not to respond.
Secondly, I am not preaching to you, and whether you capatalize his name or not....that makes no difference to me. He is God all by himself...and whether you choose to capatalize his name, or leave his name out of your conversation is not going to change that fact.
Brian the fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what you or I think, at this point. No matter what anyone says, when it comes to religion that is a never ending debate.
I however personally believe that God exist. I am a Christian, and I will not apologize for it. I am persuaded that nothing shall seperate me from the love of God.
And in regard to your foolish thinking of ministers taking an oath of poverty....I think you are a little misdirected.
I have not taken an oath of poverty. I work a 9-5 job just like the next man does to support his family, and that job that I work is not within the church.
I said "don't preach to me". Big difference.
I do appreciate your station in life and respect the position you hold in the community, but there is nothing you can quote to me from a book written by man passed off as something God offered to change my mind, and in all honesty, I am offended that you'd even approach me to coerce me into your beliefs by using Scripture.
I do respect your Faith in Him, Reverened Ward. I also appreciate the fact that you'd even try. But I am steadfast in my belief as you are with yours, and you don't see me trying to convince you otherwise, except by the factual statement I provided concerning the creation of the universe.
And thank you for caring. I appreciate that.
Starling02...
2 Timothy 4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."
You are entitled to your opinion. I will say however that it seems that your opinion is based on misinterpreted scriptures, and what you also read off someones internet web page.
One thing I won't do however is argue with anyone about God. Psalm 14:1, " Only a fool says in his heart that there is no God." I have learned over the years that people will believe what they choose to believe, and in the end...
Philippians 2: 10 - 11, " At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
I must admit, it is nice to think of God's love being so infinitely great that all will ultimately be saved. Hell is a terrible place and I don't want anyone to go there. But it does not matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says.
God is love (1 John 4:8), but God also punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity. God is not one sided. He is not simply an infinitely loving God. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin. He must punish the sinner.
In the truth of God's word, we find that the Lord has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, salvation will come. But to those who turn away, God's wrath abides upon them: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him," (John 3:36).
Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.
Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."
God's Law is Perfect
When God said, "Let there be light," it happened. When He commanded that the oceans be, they came into existence. God's word is powerful. What He says is never futile, empty, or without power.
The Law is a reflection of God's character. It is pure and perfect. It is powerful. The Ten Commandments reflect God's holiness and justice. These commandments are not without punishments. A law without consequences is only an empty slogan.
To sin is to break God's Law and offend His character. To sin means to challenge His character and authority. It means you go against His word. But God is not a liar. His word is true. He has said He will punish the lawbreaker.
But, praise be to God, that while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us (Rom. 5:6). There is no way we can appease God. That is why God became one of us (John 1:1,14; Heb. 2:17), to take our place and become sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21). Therefore, people have two options:
Trust Jesus, God in flesh, as your savior and put your faith in the sacrifice that He made on the cross and in nothing you do.
Reject the cross and let the penalty of the Law fall upon you.
Either God pays, or you do -- forever. Which will it be?
"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," (Heb. 10:26). If there is no sacrifice available for you, then God's wrath abides upon you because He hates sin and your sin is not removed (John 3:36).
as you were about Starling's "poisoned mind"?
and no, I'm not being combative, I'm being realistic.
This debate has gone on forever and still no proof of His existance.
I have more faith in the Egyptian hieroglyphics indicating there were UFO's than in a diety.
Hmmm... I made no assumptions, Starling's beliefs were laid bare for all to read. So, no, I try not to assume.
I again assert that your belief has no bearing on either my belief or God's actual existence.
for forming her own opinions based on her own experiences.
think that everyone is entiled to their own opinion and can/should discuss it. Although, no one shouldn't try to force their opinion/belief on others.
Well, in that case, I believe in absolute right and absolute wrong. I think you are wrong. Christians, by nature, should share their faith with others. Some call this "forcing opinions," and if that's how you want to call it, then let it be so, and I am guilty.
The idea that "everyone is entitled to their opinion" is dangerous. Yep, this is a free country, and you can believe whatever you want to, as can I. So in that way, you're right. But to say that everyone is right is a contradiction. If I am right, atheism is wrong. If atheism is right, Christianity is wrong. Either way, there is a loser.
but I don't credit a diety for guidance differentiating between the two.
And that makes me combative, huh?
Nope, that would be your tone and attacking mannerisms.
your perception of me is wrong.
you may perceive my tone as aggressive, but it's frustration.
and let me apologize for you're thinking I'm "attacking" you. That was not the intent. Just voicing my frustration about your own perception.
Brian, you seem like a semi-intelligent being. So let's play nice, huh?
I have not made assumptions or called names. I am being civil and logical. Let's work on communicating ideas rather than just blasting one another, yeah?
To do that, one must first understand, that the creator gave us all different voices, different ways of seeing and different ways of being.
One can believe or not believe and there is no harm in doing so.
As if we all know what is right and proper for people, yet, we do not know what is right and proper for ourselves, first.
“Four rabbis used to argue theology together, and three were always
in accord against the fourth. One day, the odd rabbi out, after losing
three to one again, decided to appeal to a higher authority. 'O, God!,'
he cried, 'I know in my heart that I am right and they are wrong!
Please give me a sign to prove it to them!'
It was a beautiful sunny
day. As soon as the rabbi finished his prayer, a storm cloud moved
across the sky above the four rabbis. It rumbled once and dissolved. 'A
sign from God! See, I'm right, I knew it!'
But the other three
disagreed, pointing out that storm clouds often form on hot days. So
the rabbi prayed again. 'O, God, I need a bigger sign to show that I am
right and they are wrong. So please, God, a bigger sign!' This time
four storm clouds appeared, rushed toward each other to form one big
cloud, and a bolt of lightning slammed into a tree on a nearby hill. 'I
told you I was right!' cried the rabbi, but his friends insisted that
nothing had happened that could not be explained by natural causes.
The
rabbi was getting ready to ask for a very, very big sign, but just as
he said, 'O, God...,' the sky turned pitch-black, the earth shook, and
a deep, booming voice intoned, 'HEEEEEE'S RIIIIIIGHT!'
The rabbi put
his hands on his hips, turned to the other three, and said, 'Well?'
'So,' shrugged one of the other rabbis, 'now it's three to two.'”
but assuming Starling has a "poisoned mind" is bullshit and I'm calling him on it.
I am so sick of reading these holier than thou fruit loops that because they believe in something, it's a just cause.
It's not.
I've respected in their beliefs and I usually don't comment in these types of threads just for this reason. But Crusader is so wrong in saying Starling has a poisoned mind because she dosen't share Crusader's belief.
since it is clear someone has poisoned your mind against even the possiblity of a power higher than your own in anyway that resembles a Christi