Troy and Stephen Flagg of the Urban Coalition of Toledo, discuss the fact-finder report regarding the new TFT contract.
Get more info from The Blade
Check out more interviews @:
troyneff.com
Send your T-mails to troy@troyneff.com
Troy Neff Show: TFT President Fran Lawrence is Playing Hardball
By troy neff 1230 am - Posted on May 16th, 2008
Five years ago talk radio said that TFT would go on strike. TFT did not. Three years ago talk radio said that TFT would go on strike. TFT did not. Now, again, talk radio says TFT will so on strike. TFT has not been on strike for 30 (count 'em, it will take some time) 30 years! And for five long years Toledo teachers have had no raises. The TPS salary schedule is behind nearly every urban district in the State of Ohio, and every district in the Toledo area. How, precisely, is TPS going to attract high quality college graduates if TPS does not have a competitive salary schedule?
Steve Flagg so often talks off of the top of his head without thinking. Here's one of his statements from Friday. When talking about school funding from the State of Ohio, Steve stated that it may be inadequate. To paraphrase Steve, he said that no one had investigated state funding, and that Governor Strickland is talking about doing something soon.
Steve is correct that the governor is preparing a plan for a more adequate and equitable funding system for Ohio's schools, but this is part of Strickland's pledge, stemming from his 2006 campaign for governor, to address repeated Ohio Supreme Court decisions, over the past decade or more, declaring Ohio's school funding system to be unconstitutional. These decisions were not taken seriously by the previous governors nor by the Ohio General Assembly. But to say, as Steve did, that this matter has not been looked at seriously, is to ignore those decisions.
Inadequate state funding, and the wasteful spending on charter schools, have put the Toledo Public Schools, most of the other urban districts, and even suburban districts like Sylvania and Oregon in poor to desperate financial condition. However, as Steve, himself, has pointed out, TPS did have a nearly $19,000,000 surplus heading into this fiscal year, and an impressive surplus in its health care fund, built up by cost shifting to employees in the last three years. On top of this, TPS got a large increase in the last state budget, because TPS is such a poor district based primarily upon the per pupil evaluation of property within the district.
I also take strong issue with the "blame game" regarding suspensions in TPS. I have been a teacher in TPS for 32 years. I've never suspended any student, because I can't! No teacher can suspend any student in TPS! Only an administrator can. There is a serious problem with consistency in the suspension process from school to school and from situation to situation, but that has nothing to do with the TFT contract. For those who have a problem with the way suspensions are done, it's all about incompetent administrators. In my experience, incompetent administrators hide behind the TFT contract, whether or not there is something in the contract that applies.
And just because teachers are not required to give makeup work to suspended students, does not mean that teachers don't give makeup work to suspended students. Most teachers DO, in fact give makeup work. The nature of too many of the students who get suspended is that they typically don't hand in the assignments. I always give the opportunity for suspended students to do makeup work. Sadly, very few suspended students return to school with work in hand. Some do...far too few.
I must add that I am mystified over the number of people who are concerned about students who are so disruptive that they are suspended, but show little concern for the vast majority of TPS students who deserve an orderly learning environment, free from those disruptions? Who speaks for the good children? Who are their advocates? I have the answer...TEACHERS! That's who speaks for the children who enter our buildings with a positive attitude and a desire to learn.
Dale,
1. I never said the TFT would strike. But it has been widely circulated that Fran Lawrence will ask for a strike authorization at the Saturday meeting. And low and behold, she did just that as reported by the Blade - Teachers approve fact-finder report, strike authorization. The issue of the retroactive payment was included in the negotiations as I said it would be. So just how do I “talk off the top of my head without thinking”? I seem to have a good understanding of just what is going on and the facts surrounding the issues. I also said in the interview that details would be leaked to the press as a result of this meeting and they were!
I don't talk off the top of my head. I form my opinions based upon a lot of research. By saying something like this you want others to form an unfavorable opinion of the individual and not the issue at hand. Stop using labels or inferences that are personal and do not relate to the discussion!
2. If you paraphrase at least get the gist of it correct. I said, "The question has never been addressed as to whether or not the funding is adequate or not in terms of a quality education." I never said the funding as it relates to covering current expenses, whether justified or not, has never been addressed. The comment related to what a quality education looks like and what that will cost. In fact, the amendment being pushed by the education establishment (teachers unions, etc.) calls for a quality education to be defined and funding provided to address that issue. So please, if you must paraphrase, try to get it right. Better yet put the whole quote out there and then we can debate what I mean by it.
3. During the previous levy campaign I drew attention to the surpluses you mention and stated much of what you said. However, you must consider future operating expenses. If you use the entire surplus to pay for the retroactive wages (by my estimate based upon TPS data it is well over $20 million), your only choice in the out years of the financial forecast is to cut expenses (layoffs and school closings) or raise taxes. It is easy for you to want to raise property taxes on those of us who live in Toledo for your salary Dale; you don't have to pay them as you live outside Toledo. Laying off employees and closing schools to meet future deficits means you as a teacher or the union is willing to cannibalize the membership to pay for the raises barring increased taxes. Now just how does this help with educating the children of Toledo.
4. And apparently I am right as “economic concerns” and the issue of certification per ORC 5705.412 as the length of the contract (ability to certify that revenue is there to pay for the costs required for the term of the contract) was part of the fact finder's report.
5. As to suspensions, I don’t advocate having disruptive students in the classroom and you know it. But you insist on obfuscating the discussion by getting people to believe that I do. Nice try! How do you justify “teacher discretion” in determining whether students get to make up homework for both in-school and out of school suspensions? Obviously this can result in differences in how students are treated, etc. from teacher to teacher. Also, how do you justify suspending kids, missing classes and homework, tests, etc. for dress code violations? How is having the wrong color shirt or no belt disruptive to the learning environment? And I could go on.....
Why do you wish to take things out of context, inaccurately paraphrase and detour the discussion about the issues? As a teacher, you should understand how that can affect learning.
after hearing so much about the good student who is trying to learn in a classroom full of disruptive students that if only the "good" student is in classroom then there is no need for so many teacher or even schools. Check out the number of TPS students enrolled in 1998 and the number of suspension/expulsions. Then check out the number of TPS students enrolled in 2008 and the number of suspension/expulsions. Then check out the number of teachers for both years. What do those numbers tell you? It tells me that teachers are suspending/expelling themselves out of TFT jobs.
Charter schools are opening up everywhere, I can't even keep up with them. I know at least 10 families who have left TPS this school year for charter schools because of their "disruptive" student.
Your statement:
****but show little concern for the vast majority of TPS students who deserve an orderly learning environment, free from those disruptions? Who speaks for the good children? Who are their advocates? I have the answer****
begs the question who is the "good" student?
"Check out the number of TPS students enrolled in 1998 and the number of suspension/expulsions. Then check out the number of TPS students enrolled in 2008 and the number of suspension/expulsions. Then check out the number of teachers for both years. What do those numbers tell you? It tells me that teachers are suspending/expelling themselves out of TFT jobs."
I say get the Thugs out of there - Schools have policies as to what constitutes disruptive behavior, if you start winnowing out the weeds, then maybe some of the other disruptive ones who are only following the lead of more charismatic trouble makers just to 'fit in' will come around and act right.
If the thugs are being suspended or expelled for things theyre actually doing, then get them the hell out of there. Kids have a right to an education, but once their actions prevent other kids from getting an education, then they need to go.
It still comes down to the parents. You can blame the schools for your children's actions all you want,but ultimately what your kid does falls on the shoulders of his folks.
You talk about charter schools, but I know two teachers at Toledo Christian who can cite any number of people who've pulled their little angels out of TPS, only to put them right back after they find that TC demands attendance, and parental involvement - the parents find that's juuuuuuust a little bit much to ask.
Billy, the two largest categories of suspension at TPS per the rules of conduct are failure to follow directives and disorderly conduct - over 60% of the suspension per my last review.
Both categories rely upon teacher discretion as these categories are not well defined and rely upon the judgment of teachers and do vary from teacher to teacher and school to school. You can be suspended for some crazy things like stopping to watch a fight. It is human nature to stop and observe a disturbance - look at what happens when there is an accident on the freeway.
I don't advocate keeping "thugs" in class. But at the same time, just how would you define a thug? Further, I would rather try and change the behavior through intervention now than pay for 40 plus years of incarceration. It is just plain economic sense. And I do know kids that have been helped and are now productive citizens.
The throw the bums in jail and throw away the keys is not the proper option. I would hope that teachers of all people would generally feel the same way.
I would hope that teachers of all people would generally feel the same way.
I guess I always end up on the side of the kids who ARE trying who get a lesser education because the teacher's are spending all the time they should be teaching to the "intervention" you speak about. Do they have the right to sit in class and NOT have to put up with the disruptive behavior that you say constitutes 60% of the suspensions?
And before I define a Thug, lets have Twyla define a "typical teacher".
Billy, I was not talking about intervention necessarily coming in the classroom with all the students. But I do believe that early intervention and often if necessary might make it easier to continue a positive trend in the classroom
There really is no need to wait for another to define a term. I was just wondering how you would define a thug as that definition might, and probably would, differ from person to person. If we know, then we can further the debate.
Per dictionary.com:
noun
1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.
I'm guessing that this is not really what you mean.
Pertcheck does not live in Toledo? Typical teacher!
Typical lucas county democrat. You could care less what the person brings to the school as far as abilities. Just so's your get your cut at tax time is all you give a shit about. That kind of attitude does nothing for the kids - it's all just about money.
My youngest is graduating from TPS next month and completing the 38th year of schooling for my kids at TPS. My kids have probably had a total of about 50 different TPS teachers along the way. I have met and talked with every one of them and haven't had one yet that didn't care about my kids or do at least a satisfactory job of teaching, though I will admit there were a couple along the way I am glad we didn't get. Most have been much better than just satisfactory. There is also a TPS teacher living in this Toledo home. I suspect neither her method nor her attitude about teaching will change next year when we no longer have any TPS students in our household. I also find it hard to imagine that the place of residence of any of the 50 or so teachers we have worked with has any bearing on their performance or level of caring.
The typical TPS teacher in our experience has been pretty good. Maybe we have just been lucky for 38 school years.
You have been lucky. But I will agree that the vast majority care about the kids, although that does not mean they all do a good job. There are many fine teachers at TPS. I know a number of them. So as a general stereotype of TPS teachers, I agree with you.
what I was writing about. Typical "Conforming to type". The type of teacher who is prevalent in the TPS system is a white teacher who lives outside of Toledo. I am not sure of the percentage at this point but it is well over 50%. Well over!
And it is Twila if you don't mind. :=)