Like always, feel good legislation seems to rule the day in Toledo. Many times this feel good legislation will cause more problems. Could this charter school issue be another legal issue in waiting? Why may the Toledo council and plan commission be treading on very thin legal ice if they require districts to follow Ohio School Facilities Commission requirements? Because Ohio revised code specifically says they are exempt from building requirements. The Ohio Department of Education has a primer on what laws charter schools are exempt and non-exempt from and it says they are specifically exempt from the building requirements in ORC 3301.07.
The document linked below says charter schools are exempt from the following:
State Board of Education minimum standards covering the assignment of professional personnel according to training and qualifications; instructional materials and equipment, including library facilities; proper organization, administration, and supervision of schools; buildings and grounds (other than any
building health and safety standards); admission and promotion
of students; driver education courses; phonics instruction;
instruction in energy and resource conservation; and reporting
requirements.
You can read this document at:
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/DocumentManagement/DocumentDownload.aspx?D...
Loose lips sink ships which is why this may be put on shaky legal grounds because one of the purposes for structuring the legislation was to:
"The plan commission modeled the regulations on building standards used by the Ohio School Facilities Commission."
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081008/NEWS04/81...
Those standards were drawn up for public schools, but charter schools are exempt from these requirements. Maybe this is why there is not traction at the state level.
Of course it seems like they know about this when it was summarized the council said:
"adopting facility regulations was critical to students' health and safety."
Note this is a legal codeword. It means our lawyers looked at the law and said we can only pass it if we say this. How will these proposed changes help the health and safety? Will students be healthy and safe without a gym? A play area- that may actually increase health and safety risks. But why ask these questions, when it feels right the right thing to do. Shame on me.
You think the City would know better than bending rules and regulations just to feel good as with the carryout legislation, but I am sure that was passed more for community organization support in the next election than real problems, and this law is also bordering on thin ice.
Sounds like if a charter school operator wants to challenge this, they may have a case. I am not a lawyer, but if it passes, this may be an interesting judicial case on zoning and state laws.
Real source:
Demolition of the United Way headquarters would be subject to review by the Toledo City Plan Commission, which would then turn the matter over to council's zoning and planning committee for its review before it goes before the entire body.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081008/NEWS04/81...
Note: Elected council people bring up the topic. Next year is an election. Santa Fran is pulling strings to get as much done her way to try to stunt charter school growth. Do not underestimate the power of going against Fran and the TFT. Because not only can they hurt you with their own money, but they can get other unions to turn on you.
Funding:
According to ODE (2/08) the State provides $6,180 out of $11,319 so that is 51% of the funding. The district provides $4,217 or 34% of the funding. The rest is made up of Federal or other sources.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/DocumentManagement/DocumentDownload.aspx?D...
State pays more of the money. Note when a student goes to a charter school they take the $6.1k with them, the 4.2k stays with the district.
I think City Council and the plan commission get the "Let them eat cake award" for continually focusing on issues that do not matter while the city rots.
Is this new? NO. TFT using old tricks and political pull to get the local changes in law (from hoover institute):
Often the most painstaking and difficult parts of launching a charter school are locating, purchasing, and maintaining the school building. Many charter opponents believe that if they can sufficiently complicate this nascent stage of a charter school’s life, they will have dealt a major blow to its future success.
In Albany, New York, opponents have used the city’s zoning commission to halt charter school growth. When Albany Preparatory Charter School requested a variance on property it was eyeing, opponents appeared before a public hearing about the proposed school building and used the opportunity to argue against charter schools in general. Both the city and the board of zoning appeals denied the variance request in February 2005 on grounds that the proposed building was in a location that was not suitable for a school. It wasn’t difficult for the charter school to prove that the decision was unfairly “arbitrary and capricious,” however. The building that Albany had deemed unsuitable for a school had been, for more than 70 years, Albany’s very own Public School 3 In December 2005, State Supreme Court Justice Thomas J. Spargo gave the city 60 days to approve the variance request.
Albany’s story is not unusual. Playing games with facilities and zoning is a powerful way to get charter schools to delay or abandon plans to open. Certainly some zoning boards resist on principle any new land use that may increase traffic or noise, but blatant political hostility is quite common. Why are local boards hostile to charter schools?
http://www.hoover.org/publications/ednext/4611587.html
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Original Post by Fred:
The Toledo Planning Commission today will consider new regulations for "new school buildings" for the City of Toledo. The regulations are meant to kill any competition from charter schools as they are directed at arbitrary standards being set by the planning commission for schools.
They include playgrounds, athletic fields, cafeterias, parking and a number of other items which would only affect charter schools since they are not normally located in traditional school buildings.
In fact some charter schools in Ohio have tried to buy abandoned old school buildings and in one case the building was bulldozed rather than let a charter school open. When did this stop being about the children?
Ron Adler was my guest this morning for an exclusive interview on this proposal. It is available at http://www.wspd.com/pages/fredstop10.html Pleae take the time to listen to it as it affects your tax dollars and job creation in Toledo.
Charter schools pay taxes on the property they own, hire personnel, pay payroll taxes, use other goods and services from local vendors etc. etc. Why your city council would even consider trying to stifle this growth is beyond me, other than to protect the monopoly on education that TFT currently has.
I like most of Toledo have heard enough of your negativity to last two lifetimes.
Thanks for the comment asscat it goes right to the matter at hand, whether or not your school choice is being taken away. Hopefully others will feel as strongly as you do about our school system. When you get time please post the research on your "most of Toledo" comment as I have some numbers that might contradict yours. We should compare studies though. Tongue now removed from cheek.
comments from a teacher and a Francine Lawrence bully!
Former TPS Superintendent Sanders first made the comment about not selling any buildings being abandoned through the construction of new schools or school closings back in 2002. At board meetings and in conversations with other administrators and board members they all have said they prefer demolition to selling to charter schools. The exception to this is Darlene Fisher who says she welcomes the challenge.
At this time, I know of no law that requires that TPS must sell vacant buildings to charter schools. Although there may be something about offering buildings to charter schools if they put buildings up for sale. We should check on this, but I will be honest I have a number of items on my plate right now and this is not a priority.
As was noted in the interview with Ron Adler, charter schools would pay property taxes. The only time a charter school might not have to pay property taxes would be if the school is ran by a non-profit group with an approved federal tax exemption. I would guess that there is a process in place at the county level to request such an exemption.
I also wonder how many City Council members have been endorsed by the TFT and have received contributions to their campaigns. This might just give you an indication of how the council members will vote. I’m aware of several members who do get contributions from the TFT.
According to an article in the Toledo Free Press, ’Loophole could allow ‘legal money laundering, McNamara, Ashford and Webb have received TFT contributions. I know that Sobczak was endorsed in 2005 by the TFT but don’t know about contributions.
This is a blatant attempt, as many have noted over at Glass City Jungle, to put hurdles up to prevent charter schools from opening in Toledo. It is all about politics and not about good city planning!
All of us should call and write (email is best) our city council members and ask them to do as Schultz has said she would do on Fred’s show this morning: vote NO as this is not a matter city council should be involved with. I have several calls in right now. Do you?
I’m pretty upset with this as it makes no sense. Charter schools and watch dog groups are the two big reasons why TPS has made any changes. Although TPS keeps fighting them both rather than compete or be responsive to community members. And parents should have choices on how their children are educated. This is a parental decision and not a decision that should be made by the state or any other governmental entity.
Mr. Adler mentioned this morning on air during the interview that it was the Cleveland district that demolished a school rather than sell it to a charter school. It's a shame more the media didn't see this as an important story. So far only Betty Schultz and Tom Waniewski have weighed in and both believe a no vote is in order. Collins and Webb were not on council when this originally was sent to the planning commission on a 12-0 vote.
That would mean Waniewski was also not on council since he was elected at the same time as Webb and Collins. I believe that Collins will see it in the same light when the time comes. As to Webb, I would expect her to support the TFT position. But that is just a guess on my part as I have no information on which to base an opinion.
So that would mean that Brown, Craig and Ashford and all the at large council members were part of the 12 - 0 vote.
after driving past Riverside School and seeing it abandoned with all that building and playground going to waste, it just breaks my heart...
heard something about a new Riverside, but I couldn't find it, but did get lost trying to drive out where the Skyway Bridge cut the neighborhood right in half...
*sigh*
...when you can then pull money away from the system to pay for schools that don't have to play by those rules? It's apples and oranges. Thanks for the link, Chris - that was tres interesting.
I believe in school choice and a healthy diversity of school environs. I think the homogenization and reliance on early 20th century models of schooling (based on factories, uniform products and efficiency, etc.) are the bane of the future. That go against how we know people learn. That are command & control-based, with more focus on the Curriculum with a capital C as the driver (including exactly what a person should learn and when) and less on student interest and motivation. I mean, we put kids through systems of education that are based on a way of living and being that is no longer the norm, and prepare for a future that looks very different.
Looking through the exemption list for community schools - if these regs aren't important enough for all some publicly funded schools to adhere to, then why have them at all? That question, btw, is not meant to curtail charter schools, but rather allow public schools the latitude to try truly audacious experiments, not small tweaks on an archaic system.
When the local public school (TPS) is given "truly audacious lattitude" we find that black children suffer. For instance the Small School's concept instituted at Scott and Libbey, while possibly a good concept, the teacher's union (TFT) was given "truly audacious lattitude" in it's implementation and black children suffered and are still suffering.
Just the facts.
There is a MASSIVE glut of empty commercial property in Toledo. On top of that, the Berdan Academy didn't seem to have any problem building a new building on empty land in West Toledo.
I already know we have an insular and out-of-control public school system in Toledo. The TPS will make every decision BUT the one that makes the best social sense. So it's not surprising that they'd prefer to destroy an asset rather than see it end up in the hands of a competitor. This I expect. But it doesn't logically follow that charter schools are getting the short end of the stick. There is too much property waiting for a tenant for that to be true.
who wouldn't rent ot sell to a charter school, TFT has far reaching arms.
Here we go again. Bash TPS teachers. And don't give me that hackneyed line, "We love the teachers, but hate the teacher's union." Union leaders are elected. If their decisions do not reflect the wishes of the majority of their constituents, they're out!
The late President of the American Federation of Teachers, Albert Shanker, was an early advocate of charter schools. He conceived of them as experimental schools, chartered by publicly elected school boards, trying new ideas in education, freed from unnecessary regulations. Neither he, nor any of the early advocates about whom I have read, saw charter schools as a parallel, or even substitute school system for traditional public schools. Neither did they perceive of having these schools chartered by people that were not elected from the school district that is supposed to serve the kids.
Ohio's current charter school advocates tout their lower costs. One reason for this is the cheaper facilities. Smaller facilities means less upkeep. If gymnasiums and playgrounds are unnecessary for charter schools, why must traditional public schools have them? What about sports facilities for high schools? And science labs? Who needs them in the 21st Century? Why not have all schools cut back to "bare bones" education? That's the way to prepare today's children for tomorrow's world! Education on the cheap. How anti-American! How unpatriotic! They don't have this argument in China. A thorough, efficient, effective public educational system is not open to debate there. No wonder they own $500,000,000,000 to $1,000,000,000,000 of our bonds and treasury notes!
The other reason for lower costs is that, on the whole, charter schools pay their teachers much less, and provide fewer or no benefits. Maybe that's why little more than half of Ohio's charter school teachers are "highly qualified" while the traditional public schools in Ohio run at 95%. And, typically, TPS gets bashed because we're not at 100%!! Some of those same bashers love charter schools!
If there are some things that are unreasonable in the proposal, spell them out and ask for them to be eliminated. But only if you're willing to go to Columbus and ask that the same regulations should be eliminated for ALL public schools! This proposal merely puts everyone under the same rules. Isn't fairness important?
I must comment about Alison (little Sally) Perz. What a deal she and her mother cooked up! Bankrolled by David (I never saw a kid I couldn't make a buck off of) Brennan, Sally pushed the worst charter school law in the nation through the Ohio General Assembly. Shortly after, she resigned and took a six figure position with the University of Toledo, which became a chartering agent for these schools. Soon after, Alison climbed aboard the charter school gravy train. And the train has been chugging along ever since, lining their pockets.
But there is something much worse than this. Alison and other advocates, keep the propaganda flowing to give parents the false impression that Ohio's charter schools are a vibrant option for their children. With less "highly qualified" teachers, with many bare-bones facilities, with high teacher turnover, with awful test scores, how are these not falacious promises?
And now Alison blames the low test scores on the traditional public schools. She claims that a high number of the charter school students are behind when they came to the charter schools. That might have been a defense 8 years ago, or 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago, but it's not now! Charter schools were supposed to be such an improvement that they would fix the problems of low test scores. Many have been operating now for 5-8 years. Where's the promised improvement? Two out of three charter schools in Ohio are in "Academic Emergency" or "Academic Watch" after all these years. If any urban school district in Ohio had a record that bad, they'd be forced to totally overhaul, or be taken over by the State of Ohio.
Yes, I am a TPS teacher. Yes, I am on the TFT Board of Directors. But, as I've pointed out before, I'm near the end of my career. My concern is even more for the children than it ever was. I'm concerned with what type of public schools will be in place after I leave. I want children to be taught as I was, with a vibrant traditional public school system. I want a system that is unafraid, and unhampered when it comes to trying new ideas in education. However, I want those ideas to be tested and found to be effective. Under Ohio's charter school law, the vast majority of Ohio's charter schools are committing educational malpractice! They have become "cash cows" for David Brennan and the other "for profit" operators, as well as some individual operators who skim money as the CEO, or other such title. It's a sad commentary when our children become pawns in a game of high stakes gambling to enrich a small number of determined investors.
Improve your product.
If you have the ability to outperform the charter schools, they would go out of business and the students would return to TPS.
That way you wouldn't have to pull the strings of your puppets on the Toledo City Council and appear to be a bunch of crybaby protectionists who can't compete and need mommy government to rush in and wipe your butts for you.
Two clarifying questions for Libs:
1) What do you refer to as "product"?
2) What do you rate as outperform?
If you use OACS as a benchmark, for example:
Some report snippets from the OEA:
http://www.ohea.org/GD/Templates/Pages/OEA/OEADetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRe...
Statewide, traditional public schools outperform charter schools in each tested subject at each grade level. All things being equal, the difference in pass rates ranges from 5.6 to 10.0 percentage points. Traditional public schools experience gains in proficiency levels that are from 2.2 to 4.0 percentage points a year higher than those of charter schools.
White Hat is a for-profit company managing schools in Ohio. So we (a) give a for-profit company money to produce better schools and (b) exempt them from rules that traditional public schools must adhere to. Performance:
Twenty-seven of the 31 charter schools operated by White Hat Management were rated in academic watch or emergency. None received a rating as high as effective. White Hat schools met less than eight percent of report card standards.
Again, I'm for the idea of charter schools and offering a competitive option. And I don't think test scores are the only primary metric for a school's success or failure. And many charter schools do take in students who have not performed well in traditional public schools. But charter schools are NOT a panacea for educational woes. I think that there is an urban myth in the making that charter schools are, in fact, vastly superior to traditional public by their very nature.
http://www.whitehatmgmt.com/ventures/lifeskills/
"In the beginning, the idea behind White Hat's Life Skills Centers was to give dropouts a second chance."
In other words, White Hat has taken the potential dropouts out of TPS. Now imagine what the Ohio Achevement Test scores would be for TPS if those underachievers were still in TPS. If you are a teacher, you can understand that lower test scores will bring down the overall average, right?
Thank White Hat for making the TPS test scores go up by taking the lower part of the bell curve out of the average equation.
Also, can TPS offer the intense focus on Math and Reading that HOPE Academies does? In between study halls, the forced art classes required by the state, the forced health classes, the required 1/2 unit of Physical Education and all the electives required?
http://www.hope-academies.com/
"The HOPE Academies educational programs focus on reading and mathematics."
Can TPS offer the customized teaching curriculum that DELA offers? With 30+ students in each class, can we truly believe that each student is getting one on one time with the teacher?
And also, without the Charter Schools, all of the disruptive students, the potential dropouts, the students who demand more attention will be back in your classes.
Right now, with each classroom packed with over 30+ students, you want to add more students? What would that bring up the classroom count to? 34 or 35 per teacher?
In what you have cited...
Let me address what I consider a few key issues from your post:
1) Because white hat SAYS they focus on math and reading, does not mean that they actually do. In fact, in almost all public school systems across the United States, schools focus STRONGLY on reading and math (doesn't mean it is done well). In part because they are strong foundations for future learning and skills. Most importantly, they form the core of what counts toward meeting your AYP requirements for NCLB.
Here is one article that describes the phenomenon:
http://ednews.org/articles/23140/1/As-Schools-Spend-More-Time-on-Reading...
The result of this, time in every other subject is reduced profoundly. And in an increasingly technological world, one where knowledge of science is more and more important:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=5725791
BERKELEY, Calif. Oct.25, 2007 (KGO) (KGO) -- Science may be moving the world forward, but it's taking a backseat in Bay Area classrooms. A new study finds the majority of Bay Area elementary school teachers spend less than an hour on science each week. Compare that to a national survey that found students were spending two hours a week on science. An hour a week is not satisfying to the teachers, but many of them say in this world of standardized testing, that's how it has to be.
2) Average test scores - yes and no. If they are working with dropout populations, then there is *no effect* on TPS' scores, as these are students not counted in the system. Also, it's not as if all of the sudden low-performers and behavioral-issue students have flocked to charter schools, and not all students at the charters are poor-performers. And what about special needs students, who typically require large amounts of services? And the n-number of students at white hat schools, for example, is much lower than in the public school system. Until I can drill down into actual numbers, I would imagine the actual effect on TPS test scores (which are already abysmal) is actually minimal.
And saying that they focus on at-risk students (whether or not they do) does not absolve them of responsibility for meeting performance standards like other schools. They are being paid to perform, and we should hold them to a standard like others.
BTW-
If you are a teacher, you can understand that lower test scores will bring down the overall average, right?
That is condescending BS, Libs. There is no need for that. Shame on you.
3) When students leave the system, their money leaves as well, budgets shrink, and teachers are laid off/not rehired. As students come back into the system, their money does as well, and more teachers are hired to handle the load. What gets tricky is that it's not an immediate response system - it takes time to recover when sudden shifts in student populations occur.
4) So, White Hat Management owns the stuff that we, the taxpayers, bought. If one of their schools is closed for poor performance, they keep the assets that WE bought. So we have added capital assets for them, as well as intellectual property (they maintain their school strategies are proprietary).
5) $15.4 million dollars. The amount that it is estimated White Hat made (net) in Ohio 2005. No one knows for sure, though, because they resist transparency (even though they have tried *hard* to receive a tax-exempt status. Now, they are exempt from providing *many* services that our public school system is required to offer, and then by keeping any optional services to a minimum they can maximize profit. There is an inherent conflict of interest there that disturbs me to my core.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS24/60...
If you're most interested, read this article from the Plain Dealer. I think it breaks out very interesting points (a) about the poorly thought-out chartering system in Ohio and (b) that charters in other places have fared much better. It lays out well the challenges with their schools.
http://www.cleveland.com/charter/plaindealer/index.ssf?/charter/more/114...
Dale forgets the very basic premise of this argument....choice. If parents are unhappy with the results from TPS they should be able to choose where there children go to school without it having to be a private, costly school. Very simple. Or does Dale feel that he knows better than the parents what is good for thier children, and that he should force them to stay in poor performing schools that just happen to have science labs, gyms, cafeterias etc etc.
As for Fedor's contention that having gyms in the new schools will fight obesity...take at look at the kid in tps who have been in those schools for years now, there are a lot of fat kids. Seems your program doesn't work Theresa.
Just because Ohio's constitution mandates public education, DOESN'T mean that there must be a monopoly public school system. It just means that all avenues of educational pursuit -- public schools, charter/private schools, home schooling, etc. -- are overseen or enforced by the state.
The fact is, if the TPS wasn't such a horrible system for education, then parents of better means wouldn't take their children out of it. People are enduring being effectively charged TWICE, just to escape this terrible school system. THAT'S A WAKEUP CALL FOR YA, DALE! If people shoulder excessive costs just to get the fuck away from you, then YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
From DalePertCheck: They don't have this argument in China. A thorough, efficient, effective public educational system is not open to debate there.
Correction: China does not have public education. China has a State school.
Out of all the incredibly dumb things I've seen your write, this is a brand new standard for outrageous ignorance. Go back to school. Study communist China and learn about the daily life Chinese citizens enjoy. Pay particular attention to any incidents involving a place named Tiananmen Square, such as the June 4th incident - so named to differentiate it from other Tiananmen Square incidents.
You're quite correct in your assertion that objections or complaints about Chinese State education methods would not be debated. Those that objected would be taken away for political re-education, something you and your precious labor union should keep in mind whenever you start squawking about funding and working conditions.
As usual, GuestZero drove the spike firmly into the railroad tie. If the public education system were as good as the instructors claim it is, alternative schools would be few and far between. They aren't. If anything the number of alternative schools has increased over the last 40 years.
I do not claim to be an expert on China. I do know that once the Chinese Communists got away from using their educational system primarily to indoctrinate their children in Communist ideology, and turned, instead, to giving their children an effective education for the 21st Century, we started losing not only 20th Century-type manufacturing jobs to them, we also started losing high tech companies as well. Concurrently, the Commies turned away from a pure state-run economic model, and allowed individuals to run independent businesses and keep the fruits of their labor and ingenuity. I do know that the Commies are kicking our donkeys in the area of balance of trade.
As far as the way they run their dictatorship, no person who loves freedom and believes in our ideals of liberty would ever say anything good about China's political system. But, government run education works everywhere in the world: Japan, Germany, Canada, Britain, and on and on. Of course, in all of these countries they have standard educational goals, and national funding to ensure that their schools are not begging for support.
Just one thing about parental choice. Parents are influenced by propaganda and advertising about alternative schools. Parents in the field of educational choice fall victim to the same type of manipulation that causes them to choose to feed their children fast food, and allow their children to inundate themselves with popular violent and sexually oriented television programs. Parents often make poor choices for their children. I'm not oppose to choice. I'm not opposed to all charter schools. But Ohio's law is so poorly written, and there is so little oversight of most charter schools in Ohio, that our children, their parents, and our taxpayers are being cheated. As far as Ohio's charter schools are concerned, keep the ones that work, and close the ones that have failed. It's really that simple!
Dale, do you have any idea who Charlotte Iserbyt is? Take your time answering; it will provide us with much amusement to hear you first make claims against the Chinese for their Communist handling of their education system, whereas we're still gearing up for a full Communist treatment of students in our own schools. The irony will be about as strong as in a piece of good beef liver.
The sad truth is, your unionized hold over the public school system is well along the lines of autocratic systems. You worm your way into administrations and candidates and summarily take control, leaving out things like MERIT and ACCOUNTABILITY. All that's left is a pay and benefits system that grows more onerous with each passing year ... while student performance simply ceases to matter.
Once the NCLB Act hit, I was literally cheering, despite the Republicans' desire to squash Democrat-dominated big-city school systems. You claim you want the charters held to a standard ... while your unionized labor force has taken every possible step in dodging the same accountability for their own system. Witness the Pickett Shuffle ... it only happened as a pure vengeance move on the part of the administration against the teachers who finally won their deferred pay complaint.
I can't wait to see what miserable excuse or dodge you cook up this time. We can't fix ANY of these schools, since there are too many cronies with their hands in various tills. The same forces that resist holding the chartered schools responsible, are in force 110% in the public schools. All these schools are packed with welfare cases we laughingly call "teachers and administrators". In the charters also, there are "investors" who are undoubtedly behind the scenes. Our culture is the root problem. We worship money, and that religion drives out all other concerns ... like sufficient education of the students.
The Toledo Federation of Teachers was the first teacher's union in America to take part in the firing of its own members. Our Intern-Intervention program, now commonly called "The Toledo Plan", has become a model around the state, the nation and the world. This summer there were teachers and administrators visiting Toledo from the Republic of South Africa. They came here to study the Toledo Plan and other union-management cooperative programs that TFT is lauded for everywhere, but in Toledo.
Dal Lawrence got sick and tired of teaching down the hall or around the corner from poor practitioners. Most teachers care first about their students learning, and Dal was front and center on this issue. Dal worked with other union activists to devise the program. And when it was first proposed, the greatest opposition to it came from other teacher unionists. Dal and TFT were reviled for "doing management's job". It took several years for teacher unionists to accept the fact that teachers have a responsibility to place quality teachers into our classrooms.
In the 3 years before the Toledo Plan was negotiated, TPS fired (non-renewed) exactly zero first year teachers. In the average year under the Toledo Plan, 8%-12% of first year teachers are non-renewed. In addition, someone like me, with 32 years of teaching, can be place in the Intervention part of this program by either the principal alone, the union building committee alone, or both cooperatively. Most intervention cases are jointly recommended. Many are initiated by union building committee members who, like Dal Lawrence, don't want our children taught by poor practitioners.
Like most Toledoans, you have no knowledge of what TFT has done in these areas. As with most things in Toledo, Toledoans want to believe the worst about our own institutions and people. By the way, most of those who fail the Toledo Intern Program find employment in other school districts who have lower standards than does TPS.
I'm glad that you know who Charlotte Iserbyt is. I don't. It's too bad that you don't really know who Dal Lawrence is. His name is appearing in more and more publications as one of the greatest educators of our times! This includes recents books about the career of former American Federation of Teachers' President Albert Shanker, and one by former Secretary of Labor Ray Marshall which highlights labor-management cooperation.
I LOVE to learn! I am a lifelong learner. I'll research Iserbyt. Will you do some research about Lawrence?
Like enough Toledoans, Dale, I know this "Toledo Plan" is a great way to keep the base of teachers in the TPS more and more insular, and restricts this "non-renewals" policy to those with the least seniority in the system. It's still unionism gone wild. Under threat, the unions close ranks even AGAINST THEIR OWN MEMBERS, by classifying members by seniority.
As your base of teachers gets older, and your student base demonstrates incapacity, then the only rational conclusion is PRIVATIZATION of such a system.
That you as an educational professional never heard of Iserbyt is yet another demonstration that you inhabit a system as a native, largely concerned about your benefits package and not with the duty of instruction. One might think that teachers perform lifelong continuing education. The reality is quite the opposite ... for too many teachers, the job is just a job, and they do the minimum to get by each day. Teachers seldom seem intellectually interested in ... well, anything, really.
To wit: That's not what we pay you people for, Dale. Professionalism is a great responsibility. As a concerned layman, I noticed that I exhibited overall intellectual superiority over high school teachers while merely at my collegiate level. I was stunned. These teachers were PRODUCED by the same university. Why were they such dullards?
That's when I truly began to see what was dead wrong with modern and unionized education in these United States. For people who don't have to sweat out a living each day like the real working class, you're taking your positions greatly for granted. And from those positions, you assail the charter schools (although I can't argue against holding THEM accountable -- far from it), you demand ever increasing amounts of money, and then you turn aside once We The People (who pay your salaries) demand to know why Johnny can't read. Your arrogance is acculturated. You can't see what you're doing wrong, since that runs contrary to your economic interests. So it must end one way or another ... yes, even with poorly-performing charter schools. As I've said before, getting the same poor results for less money is still a BETTER OPTION for the public.
schools. They are not something you want to model after. The system is set up only to send the brightest on. I don't see how that will fly here where everyone is created equal. One of the best positions you can have in China is a principal, because people bribe you to pass you child on to the next level. If you are principal in China you have it made. Dale, the only reason China is kicking our butts is simple economics, their labor is cheaper. Just like in Hong Kong and Taiwan, once the salaries start to increase, companies will move on. The fact is the internal interests have set up the Public school system to not improve. Until the special interests are broken up our Public school system, especially in the large urban area will always flounder. The only pressure you can bring is another choice. Public schools are the ones who can decide to change if they want to - the key word is: WANT TO.
The tracking that you refer to was done away with officially in this country, but still exists to some extent. We offer "gifted", "honors", and "advanced placement" classes to our top students. We place our more challenging students in "special education" classes.
Almost all traditional public school teachers are unionized. Some of these smaller districts have very strong unions. In Ohio, teachers at Newton Falls went out on strike. The Newton Falls Schools rate excellent, yet their school board did not want to reward teachers with a reasonable salary schedule, Newton Falls has less than 100 teachers. The school board agreed to binding arbitration to end the strike. The situation is ongoing.
Charter schools in Ohio, with few exceptions, are outright failures! It's past time to close those which are failing, and try to find what makes the others work well and duplicate them. Anything else is educational malpractice that wastes taxpayer money, lies to the parents, and hurts the children. By the way, we don't hear much about the students who come back to TPS from years in the charter schools because the charter schools fail to teach them. Parents usually find this out when their children fail standardized tests year after year. They are usually very far behind most of my students and have few skills for treating school as a place for serious learning. I've been dealing with this challenge for many years now.
I am referring to the whole Chinese educational system. It is set up for only a few to move on and they still do indoctrinate students about communism; bad comparison and I would never use them as an educational system to look up to.
Charter schools are not outright failures, at the worst it equals public schools because there are many public schools that are failures too. And as many people as you say come back to public schools, there is the same amount of people that like Charter schools.
Instead of readers taking your advice or my advice, readers can compare charter schools and public schools at the following address:
https://webapp2.ode.state.oh.us/reportcard/archives/rc_county.asp?county...
I think when people look at the reports themselves they can see the truth about the performance and I think your assumption that they are failures will not stand up.
Yes, most school districts are unionized, but the larger districts are especially poisonous because they have lots of money and resources to influence and get their way. Look at this topic. Look at TPS, what not perfect examples of this. Saying the small districts are similar is not a fair comparison because the smaller Unions are much more responsible and don't throw their weight around; there is a huge difference.
The problems we see today are not much different than they were in 1923:
A public school system, in itself, is indeed of enormous benefit to the race. But it is of benefit only if it is kept healthy at every moment by the absolutely free possibility of the competition of private schools. A public school system, if it means the providing of free education for those who desire it, is a noteworthy and beneficent achievement of modern times; but when once it becomes monopolistic it is the most perfect instrument of tyranny which has yet been devised. Freedom of thought in the middle ages was combated by the Inquisition, but the modern method is far more effective. Place the lives of children in their formative years, despite the convictions of their parents, under the intimate control of experts appointed by the state, force them then to attend schools where the higher aspirations of humanity are crushed out, and where the mind is filled with the materialism of the day, and it is difficult to see how even the remnants of liberty can subsist. Such a tyranny, supported as it is by a perverse technique used as the instrument in destroying human souls, is certainly far more dangerous than the crude tyrannies of the past, which despite their weapons of fire and sword permitted thought at least to be free.
This unprecedented decline in literature and art is only one manifestation of a more far-reaching phenomenon; it is only one instance of that narrowing of the range of personality which has been going on in the modern world. The whole development of modern society has tended mightily toward the limitation of the realm of freedom for the individual man. The tendency is most clearly seen in socialism; a socialistic state would mean the reduction to a minimum of the sphere of individual choice. Labor and recreation, under a socialistic government, would both be prescribed, and individual liberty would be gone. But the same tendency exhibits itself today even in those communities where the name of socialism is most abhorred. When once the majority has determined that a certain regime is beneficial, that regime without further hesitation is forced ruthlessly upon the individual man. It never seems to occur to modern legislatures that although "welfare" is good, forced welfare may be bad. In other words, utilitarianism is being carried out to its logical conclusions; in the interests of physical well-being the great principles of liberty are being thrown ruthlessly to the winds. . . . The result is an unparalleled impoverishment of human life.-- J.Gresham Machen (emphasis added)
for the insight.
Chris, No problem, although It's not my insight. I thought I'd just pass it along because here we are again struggling with the same issues. I was worried that nobody would take the time to actually read this due to it's length so I omitted one paragraph which I think is also important:
In the state of Oregon, on Election Day, 1922, a law was passed by a referendum vote in accordance with which all children in the state are required to attend the public schools. Christian schools and private schools, at least in the all-important lower grades, are thus wiped out of existence. Such laws, which if the present temper of the people prevails will probably soon be extended far beyond the bounds of one state,[4] [which will] mean of course the ultimate destruction of all real education. When one considers what the public schools of America in many places already are--their materialism, their discouragement of any sustained intellectual effort, their encouragement of the dangerous pseudoscientific fads of experimental psychology--one can only be appalled by the thought of a commonwealth in which there is no escape from such a soul-killing system. But the principle of such laws and their ultimate tendency are far worse than the immediate results
Ohio's charter schools are, as a whole, abject failures! No urban school district has a record nearly so bad. Look at the state reports. The percentage of charter schools in academic watch or academic emergency is double or triple what that percentage is in any Ohio urban district. It's not even close!
Ohio's traditional public schools have improved greatly. The improvements would be even greater if the state wouldn't continuously raise the cut score needed for children to pass the tests! Charter schools have only become marginally better than they were three to five years ago. Alison Perz's predictable defense that charter schools are dealing with low performing students rings hollow. Alison sounds like the traditional public schools officials ten years ago. She, momma Sally, and other charter school proponents, claimed that charter schools would solve these problems. They were and are dead wrong!
Teacher unions are NOT the problem. Our problems with education are much more complex than that. If teacher unions were the problem, why are the charter schools doing do poorly? Ohio's charter school program is not brand new. We have nearly a decade of data, and all the data points to, with few exceptions, total failure!
Remember! Originally, Sally Perz told the Ohio General Assembly that her charter school bill would set up community-based non-profit schools that would solve the problems of public education, especially in urban schools. She did not inform her legislative colleagues that the "community" schools could contract with agencies that were not part of the community, and were very much FOR profit. Let's take David Brennan's "Hope" academies. The majority are in academic emergency. None are excellent. They've been around for the better part of a decade now, and the only winners are the Brennan family and their bank accounts! And since the charter schools contract with Brennan as a private business, the State of Ohio cannot audit Hope academy books to see how our tax money is being spent or how much profit Brennan is earning from our tax dollars! This sounds a lot like corporate welfare to me! No oversight. No accountability. No significant improvement. Educational malpractice!
And you are one of many who call for transparency and accountability for TPS and other traditional public schools. Why not call for Mr. Brennan and the other FOR PROFIT charter school management firms to have that same level of transparency and accountability? Oops! I forgot! Brennan is a diehard Republican, and is not associated with the Stain, so he's above your scrutiny.
Pure socialism does not work. China found that out and now allows a great deal of incentive economics...in other words limited capitalism.
Pure capitalism does not work. It led to the Great Depression. The unfettering, deregulating of capital markets in the last 28 years since the "Reagan Revolution" are driving our current economic crisis. We went too far!
While I truly believe that Republican policy is primarily to blame, there are many Democrats who were falling all over themselves to out Republican the Republicans on the issue of deregulation. It sounds so good, but is so harmful. This century started with the fall of Enron, Worldcom, and other trusted industrial bulwarks collapsing. Now, we're seeing financial institutions failing throughout the world.
We need balance. There are many things that the private sector does better. But there are many things that government does better. And we must recognize the nature of people to be greedy and self-absorbed. Without reasonable regulations, greed leads too many private sector operatives to make decisions for strictly selfish reasons. These actions too often include outright fraud and corruption.
I know I'm not original in saying that if all people were honest, there would be no need for government. The problem is that we need government to protect us from those who would do anything to enrich themselves at our expense. Balance is what's needed. Controlled capitalism with some socialistic programs work the best. That's how most of Europe and Japan operate, and China is moving in that direction. But make no mistake about it, I am unalterably opposed to the Communist dictatorship in China. That's their terribly flawed political system. China's economic changes are fascinating to watch and a great challenge to us.
By the way, in a post above, Chris referred to China having cheaper labor as the reason for our large trade deficit with China. That has been true, but you're ignoring the fact that China is now becoming a sophisticated, scientific and technological force as well. India, and other Asian nations are too.
We have to stop strangling our educational system under a financial structure that is at least a hundred years behind the times. No industrialized nation in the world funds its educational institutions based primarily upon the local value of property. It's ludicrous! And now, we are falling behind what used to be called "third world nations". A few years ago, we were having some problems with our computer. My wife called the helpline and spent about 45 minutes on the phone with a very helpful person. Part way into the conversation, she mentioned that it was in the evening. He stated that it was morning for him. He was in Bangladesh!
And finally, to GuestZero, I will never accept that the United States cannot devise a system of fair educational opportunity for all Americans! I will not settle for a system, as you said that you would, that is worse (Charter Schools) but cheaper! How unpatriotic of you!
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Play that card to your peril, Dale.
As for fair educational opportunity, we already have that sort of system. Fair cannot be divorced from choice. By trying to do so, you're only taking the essentially Communist line that Charlotte Iserbyt well documented that your depraved and unionized public system is taking, that equality will be ENFORCED.
This is a nation where individualism can well exist within a larger social context, Dale. That means that those of better means are not only allowed to exist, but they can do what is in their means to do. If that results in their seeking private schooling for their children, then they MUST be allowed under our Constitution to do so. Remember that all rights not enumerated under the U.S. Constitution must fall under the purview of the States or the people. That means most directly that Ohioans have the right to seek educational alternatives.
Like I said before, charter schools need to be held accountable. However, they don't have the massive propaganda system protecting them like the TPS does. We have legions of paycheck-collectors like yourself who support the terrible production of the TPS. In contrast, the charters are relatively weak and tend to attract those of subsidized means. They cannot defend their low performance like the TPS does. And that's what you claim you're wanting to fix, Dale: LOW PERFORMANCE. TPS is a low-performing school district. Under the all-important NCLB Act, many of its schools should have been effectively privatized by now. But your own, beloved, and I hasten to add, UNIONIZED administration, great delays have been unlawfully introduced into the NCLB Act's corrective process.
Do you really know any urban teachers? You are so arrogant, insulting, and condescending! How do you know what motivates urban teachers? Are you Kreskin?
I was in business for 15 years before I started teaching. As a percentage of the work force, I know more hard-working, sincere, committed teachers, than workers I met in any of the various workplaces in which I worked before I started teaching. And, generally speaking, urban teachers work harder, under more challenging conditions, than do any other teachers.
I know teachers in Ottawa Hills. I helped train one of them, who was a "methods" student (pre-student teaching), and a student teacher with me as well. I know the former, longtime President of the Ottawa Hills Education Association. They both respect what I do. But, they've both "been there" and seen my job up close.
The former local union president started his career at LaGrange School. I once wrote a letter-to-the-editor that was published in The Blade about how unfair it was to compare the quality of urban teachers with teachers in Ottawa Hills based solely on student test scores. He commented to me that he really improved as a teacher when he moved from LaGrange to Ottawa Hills, because he had been teaching students with very low test scores at Lagrange, and he then was teaching students with nearly the top scores in the state. And he was less weary at the end of the school day and the school week, because the work was not so challenging in Ottawa Hills! Explain that!
Back in the 1980s in Rockford, Illinois, a school district that had about 60,000 students then, parents of students attending the central city schools were angry. Their children were not scoring nearly so well on standardized tests as were children attending schools in the suburban-like outer belt of the city. The central city parents demanded that their children get the "good" teachers from the other schools, assigned instead to their children's schools. The school board listened. They switched faculties at several paired-up schools. The next year, the outer belt students' test scores were about the same as they had been, no statistically significant difference. The central city schools' test scores were down slightly, not a great deal, but enough to be statistically significant. Explain that!
You may ask how I know this. One of my colleagues still teaching in TPS, formerly taught in Rockford, and saw this experiment up close and personal. Business considerations brought her husband to Toledo, and she came with him. By the way, she's a rock-ribbed Republican who is probably supporting John McCain, and probably has a McCain-Palin yard sign in her yard! She's at a different school than I am now, and I only talk to her occassionally. But we are good friends. I wonder if you could tolerate having a Democrat as a friend? Or they, you?