http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080611/NEWS17/806110...
What The Hell??????
Is anyone getting as tired of this crap as I am?? Those assholes asked us for tax money once - we said NO. They asked AGAIN - we said NO AGAIN!!!
Folks, this is a private enterprise - there've been some awesome restaurants down town that have had to close their doors due to various reasons, THEY never went to the voters time and again for funding, why should COSI be any different? Because they provide a service??? ALL businesses provide a service or they close up!!!
So the city will be on the hook for $6900 per month?? They wouldnt be if they SOLD THE BUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!!
If any businessman had the record of failures that the city has toted up, there is nobody on God's green earth who'd give them any venture capital - why do we put up with continually letting the city tax us for failure after failure???
Why cant we tell our leaders to get the hell out of private business - they fuck it up every time they touch it, and every time they do, it costs us money!!!!
What is even more amazing and should anger you is that Tuesday in front of city council Adam Loux, Law Dept. asked for an amended lease agreement which will put the tax payer on the hook for $6,900 a month. That's to cover security, utilities, etc. while the COSI board prepares for the possible levy fight. The mayor says he never heard of this, or the dollar figure. So who is running the city at this point Bob Reinbolt, Finkbeiner, Loux?
You need to tell your city council people today that they should not support this, and that the building should be put up for sale immediately.
If, as promised, the downtown will be filled with people at the ballpark, convention center and arena come 2009 wouldn't it make sense to sell the building to someone who will put a business in there that would keep those people downtown spending money instead of leaving an event and going back home? Maybe I'm just a talk show host being simplistic.
Toledo is a Socialist state for the elite. This is perfectly obvious to the observer. And if you try to press the issue they will make it more obvious. Ballots will be packed with more and more corporate welfare items until you either drown in your own poverty, or you get the message and leave the area.
Maggie has already pointed out that COSI's so-called leadership were counting on taxpayer support, in such a way that they really weren't that concerned about seeking other sources of funding. That type of revelation shows how deeply corrupting welfare really is. The COSI leaders just stopped trying, except to stroke the egos of Czarty and the Czouncil by giving them visions of a science museum like a real city has. (Note that in other cities those museums are largely on taxpayer support, so it's still an outrage.)
It can be almost mathematically proven that as people leave Toledo, those who remain are less capable. That leads to even more moronic voting. That means a greater chance over time for some corporate welfare queen to get on the dole.
And, yeah, Fred? As Toledo continues to lose population and sustainable, core businesses, all that downtown retail and entertainment activity will AT BEST eke onward surrounded by "blightscape" as well evidenced by downtown Detroit. But that's the BEST circumstance. What's LIKELY to happen is that attendance will drop, hence starving all those outlets downtown. Naturally, they'll turn to the ballot for more life support ... leading to more people leaving Toledo.
Watching a city crash and burn is pretty breathtaking, isn't it?
BTW, that Blockade article shows well what the plan is, purely from the photo. If COSI "closed down", then why the FUCK is all that shit still in the building 6 months later? It's because there's no REAL tenant-landlord relationship. It's because they had no intention of really shutting down. The "closure" was just to ram the point home of the outlet's absence. The emotional hole created in Toledo's dumbassed mentality will be used as leverage for a levy ... and now it's real.
I'll believe COSI is gone when those exhibits are finally sold off. Naturally, for Toledo ("Waste Capital of the United States"), those exhibits are very likely to end up in dumpsters, but I'm just sayin'.
Duh, "all that shit" is still in the building because it is all property of the state of ohio and neither cosi nor the city of toledo can touch the property with out the state of ohio's approval. Since the city signed over management of the the buiding to the state it just sits there till they decide what to do with it. The city may own the building, but they can do nothing without state approval.
I haven't heard one person say that they've missed COSI since it closed. I voted NO the last time and I'll be voting NO again this time. As for "all that shit" I think I have to go woth GZ's thought. I believe that the people running COSI really thought that if they threatened to close people would vote for a levy. When it didn't happen they closed, but without the intention of staying closed. Which only makes me even more sure I'd never vote for them. The biggest reason COSI sunk was because it was boring. They had the same exhibits the whole time they were there. What reason was there to go more then once in a lifetime?
I haven't heard one person say that they've missed COSI since it closed. I voted NO the last time and I'll be voting NO again this time.
As for "all that shit" I think I have to go woth GZ's thought. I believe that the people running COSI really thought that if they threatened to close people would vote for a levy. When it didn't happen they closed, but without the intention of staying closed. Which only makes me even more sure I'd never vote for them.
The biggest reason COSI sunk was because it was boring. They had the same exhibits the whole time they were there. What reason was there to go more then once in a lifetime?
I miss it... it was fun for the kids.
Doesn't mean it should be funded by the tax payer, but we missed it for sure this winter.
I guess it depends on who you talk to because I know that my family and I miss COSI and I know of many others who do too.
I voted for the levy and will vote for it again if it is on the ballot.
It's people like you, with immoral and socialistic minds like yours who are partially responsible for draining the taxpayers dry.
If you love COSI and the other businesses who keep dipping into the pockets of taxpayers, then why don't you buy it or them with your own money? But please keep your slimy paws out of our bank accounts.
The Daily Double!!!:
immoral and socialistic
Comments like yours have driven many from this discussion board. Resorting to name calling instead of having a civilized conversation will get you nowhere.
If you're referring to my post, trust me on this, it was done in a sarcastic manner meant to skew the one above it. Just so you know...
This is just the way the system nests the replies. Sorry.
O.K. the question is not whether or not I used names, but whether or not the names are true, accurate and justifiable.
Can you show how and why the names I used, "immoral and socialistic" do not accurately reflect the idea that I as a taxpayer should have to pay for your kid's entertainment at COSI?
'pay' for her kid's education at whatever public school is in your district?
For the record, I personally voted no to COSI because it was run into the ground and the last time I visited it was dirty and ill-managed (letting kids cut in line at the exhibits, etc.)
Point is, it was on the ballott before, it was voted down and will be voted down again.
MaumeeMom simply said she missed the place and she would be voting for it again. You have the right to do otherwise without resorting to assinine name-calling.
Immoral?? How the f is that immoral??
It was on the ballot in Maumee??
COSI was on the November, 2007, ballot throughout Lucas County.
Here are stats for Maumee from the BOE:
COSI 14
Total Number of Precincts 20
Precincts Reporting 20 100.0 %
Total Votes 3462
FOR 1541 (44.51%)
AGAINST 1921 (55.49%)
DUH
I asked a question without sarcasm and she responded to it with a straight answer.
What's up your wrinkled old ass, you twit?
I asked a question without sarcasm and she responded to it with a straight answer.
What's up your wrinkled old ass, you twit? What have you contributed to this post other than being an asshole?
Billy, you're not usually this thin-skinned. Go enjoy a nice lunch and come back refreshed....
"because it is all property of the state of ohio and neither cosi nor the city of toledo can touch the property with out the state of ohio's approval. Since the city signed over management of the the buiding to the state it just sits there till they decide what to do with it"
In other words, the business inside the city owned building is owned by the State, right?
Then why is Toledo being asked to pick up the tab on taxes for the State? Or is that business as usual in Toledo? The State is going to take money from the turnpike, and also force Toledoans to pay for their storage of unused science displays also?
WOW! I didn't know Toledoans had so much money lying around that they are happy to turn MORE over to the State!
Why don't you Toledoans just get it over with and sign over your entire paycheck? Those of you who still have a job that is.
I agree with LibsCanBlowMe. Is the state going to pick up the tab for the monthly utilities? If not they can come pick up there stuff. MaumeeMom should understand that the levy for Cosi has had 2 chances. It's obvious how the voters feel. To keep shoving more votes down our necks is crazy. It's done, we need to move on.
With the numbers of buildings and property for sale or lease in the downtown area, what would attract a potential buyer.
Foot traffic?
There is that much?
The area around the COSI building does not have a lot of retail, sure hotels nearby, but what else does the area have to attract a buyer and visitors.
COSI's so-called leadership were counting on taxpayer support,
And why shouldn't they? It's worked for the Toledo Public Schools for years.
COSI sucked. I agree with OhioKat that it was B-O-R-I-N-G, not to mention kind of dirty. I wonder how many kids went home with all kinds of science experiments just festering in their slimy mucous dripping little noses after a day at COSI.
Call me crazy, but I miss Portside. I used to go down there all the time with my friends and not only on weekends. We'd go after work (from across town) and have a couple drinks, eat dinner, shop, and mix. I remember how everyone used to love to walk through the SeaGate building underground shops, the "tunnel" to Portside, and just hang out. The downtown riverfront was never more alive and fun than during the 80's when that place was hoppin. Keep the stupid city of Toledo and state of Ohio out of it, it just might thrive again. Government is not supposed to be in business. Their business is to provide police & fire protection, maintain infrastructure, and work to retain and attract (private) economic growth.
Toledo used to be a good place to live. Not so much anymore. It's just become depressing.
MaumeeMom -
Were you a member at COSI? Or did you simply expect others to support it, via memberships or forced contributions (i.e. Taxes) voted for by you? Before you assume, know that I was a member. But I still voted no, its a private business, it needs private money. If its such a good idea to take my money to give to COSI, how did it survive for 10 years without government? Private money. But even the private donors didn't see anything new, and quit giving. Last resort was to take from taxpayers, who obviously were not smart enough to give COSI the money they thought they were entitled to.
Maybe there should be organized opposition to this levy request.....
... COSI was continually drawing from a large government-grant-sourced fund that finally ran out. Concurrently to the latter life of that fund, the prices of electricity and natural gas rose significantly ... and the Portside site is a notoriously expensive site to run (being built in the go-go 1980s where Reaganites could do no wrong, hence built any foolish thing they wanted). Hence, public money was too much of a factor in supporting COSI.
All that's irrelevant to the cause, however. COSI needs to seek private money and a better location. I refuse to give it public funds. I wouldn't even do it if COSI finally wises up and moves to the Toledo Zoo area for synergy purposes. It is ALWAYS incumbent upon an organization's leadership to seek the proper economic position of their enterprise. The downtown (and particularly the Portside site) is just the wrong location, at the very least. COSI's downtown location was almost purely an ego boost for the depraved politicians who love to waste our money.
I truly believe now that COSI will continue to put itself on the ballot at least once a year until it passes, or until the city's pols finally give up and put COSI's exhibits in a dumpster. The Lake Township school issue was accomplished in the same fashion. Our vigilance against these sort of travesties is now more keenly needed than ever. SAY NO TO COSI. Force those little fuckers to figure out their own funding formula that works. A theatre has to do that, right? Of course right.
It's obvious that we stupid voters didn't get it right the first two times this was on the ballot. I will vote "no" again.