Findlay Cooper Tire Now Clyde Whirlpool

Whirlpool seeks duties on imported washing machines
Quote from article:
"Whirlpool makes washers at a plant in Clyde, Ohio, and said it recently began bringing back to that plant some front-load washers it had been producing in Germany and Mexico. But, the company said in its petition to the government, unfairly priced imports have wiped out profits on that production in Clyde, "to the point where Whirlpool's ability to maintain its commitment to expanded U.S. production is very much at risk."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-whirlpool-seeks-duti...

Same thing is going on with Hyundai and KIA autos imported from South Korea.

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When some Liberal or other type of Socialist/Communist/Pinko says "unfairly priced imports", what they really mean is that the uneducated Union hacks who couldn't get a job at McDonalds without a friend, cannot compete with foreign workers and need another handout from the Government to make sure they are not put out to pasture or replaced by a machine.

If Union labor was so damn great, why can't these closed-shop, union-member controlled workers make things faster, better and less-expensive than foreign workers?

Why would these "highly skilled" union members need to shaft foreign companies with import duties just to make their own crappy products competative?

Why not just admit that the typical closed-shop union controlled worker is not as good as a foreign worker?

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Clyde Whirlpool is a non-union factory.

Do you have any facts on whether non-union shops can compete any better with foreign companies, or are you just anti-union to a fault? By the way, what is your age? From your choice of user name, I'm guessing you are a teenager and still have much to learn.

Once again, trying to get a Liberal to use "logic" is like leading a horse to water...

OK, listen closely and try to use your brain. This is what normal people call "logic".

How can anything built overseas be cheaper in the American market? Raw materials like the iron ore to create steel are a commodity. That means they cause roughly the same no matter what country you purchase the material in. That is why a barrel of oil is traded in American Dollars all over the world. A barrel of oil costs the same in America as it does in China. The same amount of American dollars is required to purchase that barrel.
Got it?

So, the raw material costs about the same worldwide,

So Samsung makes a washing machine in their factory in Hangzhou, China factory.
The cost of material is about the same therefore the profit margin should also be about the same. And any company needs to make a profie to stay in business.

NOW here is the clencher.
Once you add in the cost of packing up that same washer, loading it on a boat and shipping it from China to the U.S.A., loading it on a truck to go from San Diego to Toledo, OH, HOW MUCH EXTRA MONEY DOES THAT COST? ESPECIALLY NOW THAT THE PRICE OF OIL/GASOLINE (another commodity) IS SO HIGH WORLDWIDE.

The only thing left is the cost of labor. So why do American manufactures want to add tariffs to foreign made products?

SO THOSE FOREIGN MADE PRODUCTS COST AS MUCH AS AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS. Even after you add the cost of shipping that item thousands of miles, American made products are still more expensive.

WHY?

Afer all, you uneducated Union hack morons say American workers are the best in the world. If that were true, you morons wouldn't need the government so support your lazy asses and you could compete EASILY with those foreign companies.

YOU don't have to ship your finished products thousands of miles to get to the buyers.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

The real problem is "trade imbalance", and it has little if anything to do with unions. Things made in America are more expensive than products made in China because all labor in this country, not just union labor, is more expensive. That's what I was trying to get you to think about.

We have enjoyed a high standard of living for many years in America. Should we lower that standard because the Chinese will work, or be forced to work by their oppressive government, for cheap? The solution is not to make Americans work for Chinese wages. The solution is to work on ways to improve the trade imbalance so Americans can have a more level playing field in the world market. All the anti-union talk just clouds the real issue.

Don't you realize there are more people who can afford to buy products already living in America?

Want to sell more washing machines? FORGET TRYING TO SELL TO CHINA. Try to win back Americans. I'll bet there are more Chinese washers sold in America than there are washers of any kind sold in China.

The average yearly salary in China for a manufacturing job is $586 per month.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml

The average yearly salary in America for a manufacturing job is $ 2,313 per month.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml

So, since I'm told the American worker is better trained, more productive, smarter, etc. I am SURE that American industries can build more products, faster, better, safer, higher quality and CHEAPER than any other worker worldwide.

Bottom line, QUIT WHINING ABOUT "TRADE IMBALANCE" BECAUSE YOU WON'T SELL YOUR PRODUCTS TO PEOPLE IN CHINA WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT. Make an American product that Americans can afford that Americans want to buy.

Win back market share in America because that is where the demand is.

In a nutshell, the solution is to make American industry more efficient and higher capacity. You can make $100 by:
1) building one item and get $100 profit if you can find someone rich enough to afford to pay that much
-or-
2) building 10 items and get $10 profit from each item, lower the price and have 10 people be able to afford that product who couldn't afford it previously.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

So, since I'm told the American worker is better trained, more productive, smarter, etc. I am SURE that American industries can build more products, faster, better, safer, higher quality and CHEAPER than any other worker worldwide.

American workers can build more products, faster, better, and safer with higher quality. In fact, high quality is often why American products are preferred over Chinese products. However, if you think the American worker can or should work for similar wages to the Chinese, nothing about the American economy will get any better. It takes more to live in America, that is just a fact. This is actually a product of our success, and it doesn't matter if a worker is union or not. A person can't live in America on a Chinese wage.

As your last post proved, there is a big difference in Chinese wages from those in America, and that vast difference creates a trade imbalance where folks in China aren't going to buy our stuff. You recognize the imbalance, but you don't want it brought up. You seem to just want to accept it and have our workers take less money than it would cost to keep roofs over their heads.

"In fact, high quality is often why American products are preferred over Chinese products."

If this were true there would be no problem. The "higher quality" however comes at a cost that the American Consumer is unwilling to pay. So either the Chinese quality must dip so low that the consumer won't buy it or the American Company must find a way to reduce costs. Unfortunately in most industries that are still "American" the profit margin is so low reducing costs is not an option.

An example of this I'd say is the resteraunt industry. It's completely American most times from the home grown meat and vegetables. Yet the resteraunt industry operates on most times a 5-15% profit margin (very small). No wonder resteraunts are the #1 businesses that fail.

Oh and the gov't has helped them by taxing the tips of waiters and waitresses! GO GOVERNMENT!

MikeyA

Hi Mikeya,
There are still certain American made products which are preferred for their quality. Musical instruments are such items. You can't beat a good old American made Martin guitar. People from all over the world seek them out. They pay good money for them too.

American companies make good quality. The only problem is a lot of them make it in other countries that either won't, or can't trade evenly with us. This creates a situation that is not really trade. It just becomes American companies using cheap labor from other countries, bypassing the American worker and hurting the American economy.

True trade helps both sides, but what we have with other countries like China is not true trade.

No it is true trade. We pay a price, they provide a product. Regardless if it's cheap labor or not it is still trade. The only way there is "uneven trade" is if product is not delivered or is not delivered to expectations. Now If you are arguing the latter then why are Chinese made products still successful? Is it because quality is not valued or price trumps quality or both? If the American worker is bypassed it is because of the American workers' own devices.

Either way we are dealing with consumer level issues that it is the responsible of the companies to figure out what the consumers want. At no point does this become a function of government. Every instance of government attempting to pick winners and losers in the marketplace is a total and utter failure.

MikeyA

Mikeya,
With all due respect, what we have with China is not true fair trade. In a fair trade situation currency fluctuations would eventually even things out. China always manipulates the yuan to be lower than our dollar. This keeps the trade imbalance going. To keep the dollar always higher than the yuan, they prop up the dollar, buying our treasuries, adding to the deficit.

We are not dealing with just consumer level issues. It is not just companies trying to figure out what the consumers want. It is a function of government. Unfortunately, it is the Chinese government functioning against ours. Their government is attempting to pick winners and losers in the marketplace; and they are picking us to lose while we say "let the market work" and "it's all the unions' fault".

I never said take a pay cut. This is America. EVERYONE should be able to make as much as the market will support.

I'm saying the manufacturing sector do what we did in WWII because, although we aren't sending troops, you might as well think of this as "war".

During WWII, American workers and manufacturers geared up almost overnight and started producing items for the war effort at an astounding pace. Like FDR said, “Powerful enemies must be out-fought and out-produced,” So out-produce the foreign competition. Flood the American market with inexpensive American made goods and put the Chinese competition out of business.

I have confidence in American workers, American manufacturers and American know-how.

On the white collar side, they need to be willing to re-fit the production lines to include more automated assembly methods like robotics that can assemble items faster and more accurately without the interruptions of shift change, breaks, vacation etc.

On the blue collar side, they need to get rid of Union negotiated minimum production quotas and Union negotiated minimum staffing levels that will allow the "balls-out" production needed to win this war.

This is America! I have confidence in Americans and I know that the American worker does not need any government help to make them competitive on the world stage.

When you ask for tariffs on foreign produced goods, you might as well slap an American worker in the face. You are saying an American worker isn’t as good as a foreign worker. You are saying an American worker needs a hand out because they can’t make it on their own. That offends me and it should offend you too.

Think of it this way. If American made washing machines cost $500 in the U.S.A. and Chinese made washing machines cost $400 in the U.S.A, then American ingenuity can easily make a washing machine that costs $300 in the U.S.A

THAT is how you win back market share with the largest consumer base in the world. That is how you get Americans to buy American made products. Not by making foreign goods less attractive but by making American goods more attractive.

Give us a reason to "Buy American" and we will. But if a lower income family needs a washer, they are going to buy the least expensive washer they can find. And usually that is made in China.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Not to take away from your argument Libs but also those who insist on imposing tariffs overlook that fact that tariffs are and have been a bad idea.

The reason is they cause unintended consequences. First, they can start Trade Wars and lead to real wars (See War of 1812), secondly they do nothing to increase the QUALITY of internally processed goods, third it's generally agreed that they can limit growth and prolong recessions as economists have noted with the Smoot-Hawley Tarrif Act, and fourth nations who would normally trade with the US will instead trade with other countries.

So they pretty much have the same affect that President Carter's decision not to take place in the Olympics did on our country. Nothing is gained politically and no Americans get the gold, pardon the pun.

MikeyA

It sounds to me that Whirlpool ran out of subsidy options at the local level and now looks for some at the federal level.

Modern American corporations are all essentially welfare queens who will take money wherever they can get it, legally or illegally, aboveboard or below, in the market or behind it.

One after one, it seems, companies quietly fade away to foreign countries or yell "bailout". No matter which it is, there is a great concern deep seated with the people of Ohio to keep those companies that are left, here, rather than, ship those jobs overseas to people who do not deserve them. Some serious issues need to be addressed here, starting with the government. The March elections for Ohio are nearing rapidly. Know who in your district is going to represent the people and the companies that employ them. No more families should have to struggle to put food on the table-this is America-after all. Choose who will make a difference in our future by meeting all the candidates and making an informed decision on which person you would like to vote for at:http://chadely.com/2012/ohio/congress/ohio-districts-2012.html

Er, what do you mean by "protect" and "keep"? You can't keep them if they find it economically advantageous to leave Ohio. You can't protect them by making them dependent on government action.

Those words you've used pretty much mean corporate welfare, and that just increases the slope of the teflon hill we're on. The rich will end up with a free ride, and we working class will have our backs broken by past debts and ever increasing taxes.

We are subsidizing our trading partners by spending billions defending corporate capitalism.
Why Are U.S. Troops Still In Korea?
Quote:
This year Uncle Sam is spending $3.8 trillion. Upward of $1.65 trillion of that will be borrowed, an incredible 40% or more. About $700 billion is going to the military, twice as much in real terms as just a decade ago.
Yet at a press briefing late last month Lt. Gen. John D. Johnson, commander of the U.S. Eighth Army in South Korea, said no reductions were planned in America’s garrison of 28,500. The Army even arranged transportation to allow the force’s participation in overseas exercises and immediate return to the Republic of Korea.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2011/05/03/why-u-s-troops-still-i...
No wonder KIA cars are so cheap!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Why are we still in South Korea?

Do you choose to be this ignorant or do you have a really low IQ?

North Korea has nuclear arms, about 6. North Korea has missiles that can reach US soil (Alaska).

If North Korea develops a missile that can reach the stratosphere close enough to the US they could detonate a nuclear bomb which would not kill anyone but instead cause an electromagnetic pulse that would destroy all the power and electronics up and down the entire US Western Costal/Pacific region. (hint search 9 July 1962 Starfish Prime, we did it on accident when we underestimated the affects)

And you wonder why we are still in North Korea. Do you also wonder why we still have Charles Manson in jail when he never killed anyone?

MikeyA

Mikey its not the nukes. Doesn't matter how many troops are in North Korea if you got nukes. Don't you know the Korean war was never won and our then leaders got us in a quagmire to defend the whole damn country while they focus on stealing our manufacturing base. Even Ron Paul agrees with this thinking and I do too!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

TRY MOVING LIKE OUT OF THE UNITED STATES.....AND LET US KNOW HOW THAT WORKS OUT FOR YA.....

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

You and Ron Paul are wrong. And yes the number of troops does matter.

No my age does not matter because if you want to have a discussion on the Korean War let's have it! I am confident in my knowledge of it because besides my study of it (it's impact on vertical envelopment, implementation of flak jackets, classic amphibious warfare, environmental and weather conditions on the battlefield) I also had my Grandfather who served in Inchon and later Pusan but I also had my Great Uncle who was decorated by Truman personally for his Platoon's valor when the Chinese crossed the Yalu.

You are trying to cloud the issue of manufacturing with military strategy. You cannot successfully define why there should not be US military in Korea while basing it in facts because the facts support that if the US were to pull out of S. Korea then N. Korea would be inclined to attack.

Likewise, how is defending agreed upon lines of demarkation a quagmire? Does that mean ICE agents on the border of Texas and California as a quagmire of the Mexican War. It is only a quagmire if you define success as the total destruction of North Korea which President Truman nor the UN defined it as. Rather success in the Korean War was defined as South Korea's continued existence below the 38th parallel as defined by the conditions in the surrender of Japan.

MikeyA

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