Brian Wilson's Virginia Right-to-Work Utopia

Ikea's U.S. factory churns out unhappy workers
A union-organizing battle hangs over the Ikea plant in Virginia. Workers complain of eliminated raises, a frenzied pace, mandatory overtime and racial discrimination.
April 10, 2011
By Nathaniel Popper, Los Angeles Times

When home furnishing giant Ikea selected this fraying blue-collar city to build its first U.S. factory, residents couldn't believe their good fortune.

Beloved by consumers worldwide for its stylish and affordable furniture, the Swedish firm had also constructed a reputation as a good employer and solid corporate citizen. State and local officials offered $12 million in incentives. Residents thrilled at the prospect of a respected foreign company bringing jobs to this former textile region after watching so many flee overseas. (MORE)
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/10/business/la-fi-ikea-union-20110410
Quote From article:
"Laborers in Swedwood plants in Sweden produce bookcases and tables similar to those manufactured in Danville. The big difference is that the Europeans enjoy a minimum wage of about $19 an hour and a government-mandated five weeks of paid vacation. Full-time employees in Danville start at $8 an hour with 12 vacation days — eight of them on dates determined by the company."
Another take:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_04/028895.php

Another Right-to-Work for less success story:
BMW gets a deal on skilled workers
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/11/02/1405788/bmw-gets-a-deal-on-skil...

So goes the WSPD blowhards theory of skilled labor negotiating their own wages and benefits! For those who don't know Brian Wilson lives in Huddleston Virginia NOT Northwest Ohio as he misleads his listeners so often.

No votes yet

He also does his radio shows from his basement where he sits at his computer naked staring lovingly at the 3 foot by 4 foot picture of Walter Williams hanging on the wall.

ADMIN EDIT COMMENT REMOVED - USELESS AND SWEAR WORDS

First off...I'm flattered that someone is actualy reading my posts...

But I have a few questions regarding this edit:

Can we expect this to be applied accross the board.....or not?

Is there a list of "banned words"?

Cuz all I can find is this:

http://swampbubbles.com/don%E2%80%99t-something-was-saidposted-here-read

It clearly states posts may be edited for swearing...but this is the first time I remember seeing it done...

Is this a new policy..or a special case?

And does this prohibit the posting of Video clips that might contain profanity?

Some clarification would be appreciated so I dont run afoul of the rules.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

"Laborers in Swedwood plants in Sweden produce bookcases and tables similar to those manufactured in Danville. The big difference is that the Europeans enjoy a minimum wage of about $19 an hour and a government-mandated five weeks of paid vacation. Full-time employees in Danville start at $8 an hour with 12 vacation days — eight of them on dates determined by the company."

So they built plant here....

Gee...Mr Obvious ...I cant seem to make the connection....

Here's the same story but with a few facts that were somehow omitted in the above article:

An unhappy workforce at Danville Ikea factory
By Peter Galuszka

Danville in Southside Virginia has been especially hard hit by changing global markets. Once a major textile, tobacco and furniture town, the city has seen its economy decimated as those sectors have taken hits. Moving cut-and-sew plants to get cheaper labor overseas helped shutter such local textile names as Dan River Mills and Tultex , hiking the local unemployment rate.

So, it was with great joy that then-Gov. Tim Kaine announced in 2006 that Swedwood, a unit of Swedish furniture giant Ikea, would build a $281 million, 930,000 facility to make stylish and affordable furniture for Ikea stores in the United States, including in the D.C. area. State and local officials kicked in $12 million in incentives for the factory that would eventually employ 330 workers. The trade press trumpeted Swedwood’s plans for a “cost-effective, lean production flow.”

And that’s when Virginia’s notoriety for treating its workers shabbily kicked in.

Although Ikea has a good reputation for employee relations and allows unions in Sweden, not so in little Danville. Workers at the plant complain that promised raises don’t materialize and that they often learn on Friday evening that they must work a weekend overtime shift or face penalties, according to a report in The Los Angeles Times. One worker, Kylette Duncan, told the Times she had to cancel medical appointments for her sick husband because of Swedwood’s chaotic work schedules.

The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers says it has enough interest at Swedwood to try to organize the factory but the firm won’t let it on the grounds. After all, this is Virginia, where the “right to work” anti-union concept is a cherished idea. The firm hired Richmon law firm Jackson Lewis, which specializes in labor law, to help it blunt organizing efforts.

According to the Times, the story has been all over the media in Sweden but has gotten little attention in the United States. Small wonder, since unions have faced a bashing here, especially from budget-cutting Republicans in states such as Wisconsin. One oddity is that the official who pushed landing Swedwood is no Republican at all, but former Gov. Tim Kaine who has been head of the national Democratic Party and is running for the U.S. Senate.

When it comes to selling Virginia’s cheap labor, it doesn’t seem to matter what party state leaders belong to.

--------------------------------------------------

Kinda puts that story in a different light eh?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Hahahahahahhaahhahh Paul Wohlfarth must have cut too soon and pasted too little.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

is that wolfman is guilty of premature comprehension???

Paul Wohlfarth is soooo stupid, it is not even funny.

Brian and Fred and others of this ideology don't realize some things. In a perfect world I would agree that it would be nice not to have unions. However, they are necessary to balance the control of "managment." Wilsons ideology starts with the false premise that "management" and business owners are honorable and fair people. They are not...but to be fair...workers aren't either....So, we need a balance...which we get with the unions in place. Fred has made comments about "their was a time for unions." but things aren't like that anymore (the old Henry Ford days). Well....the reason they aren't like that anymore is because the unions balanced his power to take advantage of the worker. And, if unions cease to exist...it will go back to the old ways...which Fred and Brian don't seem to believe.

Brian and Fred and others of this ideology don't realize some things. In a perfect world I would agree that it would be nice not to have unions.

False premise....No one is calling for the abolition of Private sector Unions.

You are trying to paint with the broadest brush possible in painting your strawman..

I'm a union member.....That fact alone blows your stated premise out of the water...

The issue isnt unions in general...it's the extortion of the taxpayers through public sector unions that is the issue...that inturn line the pockets of the democrat machine to place democrats at the bargining table...

However, they are necessary to balance the control of "managment."

Another False premise....you are melding public and private sector unions into one basket...

In the case of public unions...the "management" is the TAXPAYER...not the owner of a company...

In THIS case...labor can BRIBE or THREATEN the "representives" of "management" at the negotiation table and sway the representatives to act in bad faith with the "management" IE the taxpayer..

"Wilsons ideology starts with the false premise that "management" and business owners are honorable and fair people. They are not."

Again with the broad brush and false premise...we're taling about PUBLIC Unions...not Pirvate sector unions...

See...with the private sector we have this thing called "freedom" (you might have to look that up)...it means if I dont like the way the company operates...I can choose another company to get my services from...

Not so with the public sector....a tax payer only has one of two recourses...get the law changed....or move elsewhere and tax their tax dollars with them...

..but to be fair...workers aren't either....

Stating the obvious...how many times are state, county, city including cops teachers and firefighters workers have been fired for just cause, some for even committing crimes on duty...and then are reinstated later with the backing of their highly paid union lawyers...

So, we need a balance...which we get with the unions in place.

There IS NO balance between the taxpayer and the public unions....and when some balance is attempted through use of the ballot box...unions balk, sue, threaten, riot etc...

Fred has made comments about "their was a time for unions." but things aren't like that anymore (the old Henry Ford days).

HENRY FORD IS THE FATHER OF THE FIVE DAY WORK WEEK YOU DUMBASS...LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A UNION AT FORD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford

The five-dollar workday
Time Magazine, January 14, 1935.Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism", designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots. Efficiency meant hiring and keeping the best workers.[22]

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($110 in current dollar terms), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers.[23] A Cleveland Ohio newspaper editorialized that the announcement, "shot like a blinding rocket through the dark clouds of the present industrial depression.".[24] The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs.[25][26] Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914, raising the minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying workers. (Using the consumer price index, this was equivalent to $111.10 per day in 2008 dollars.) It also set a new, reduced workweek, although the details vary in different accounts. Ford and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[27] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[28] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later it was changed to a day off.)

Detroit was already a high-wage city, but competitors were forced to raise wages or lose their best workers.[29] Ford's policy proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the economy. Ford explained the policy as profit-sharing rather than wages.[30] It may have been Couzzens who convinced Ford to adopt the $5 day.[31

Well....the reason they aren't like that anymore is because the unions balanced his power to take advantage of the worker.

Liberal MYTH...Ford didnt sign with the UAW until 1941...decades after his reform of wages and work hours...

And, if unions cease to exist...it will go back to the old ways...which Fred and Brian don't seem to believe.

More false premise and attempted bait & switch between the public and private sector unions through use of strawman arguments...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Actually, there were already several employers who had adopted the five-day work week by 1920. This was because industries dominated by Jewish workers gave in to demands that Jews be granted the Sabbath (Saturday) off. Ford didn't adopt the five-day week until 1926.

"...labor can BRIBE or THREATEN the "representives" of "management..."

Are you serious? Hoffa's been dead for 36 years. Lawyers do the bargaining these days for both sides.

Unions have what they have, in both the public and private sector, because inept management negotiators handed them the keys to the shop. You can't blame workers for that.

Actually, there were already several employers who had adopted the five-day work week by 1920.

Oh?...several?....more than one , less than many...

You of course offer no documentation to support that.....but I'll accept that "several" businesses treated thier workers well prior to 1920....in fact...I would assert Many busnesses treated their workers "well" by 1920 STANDARDS...

The joke comes in where you try and apply 2011 standards to 1920...or vice versa...

Are you serious? Hoffa's been dead for 36 years. Lawyers do the bargaining these days for both sides.

Really?...looks like a mob of thugs to me:

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

The 5 day work week and higher pay were willingly initiated by Henry Ford in 1914 in an attempt to keep turnover of skilled people low and in an attempt to keep unions out of his company. Fords plan to keep unions from infiltrating his company worked until June 20, 1941 when Ford Motor Company and the UAW signed their first contract.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/179437-ford-mot....

" In January 1914, Ford solved the employee turnover problem by doubling pay to $5 a day, cutting shifts from nine hours to an eight hour day for a 5 day work week (which also increased sales; a line worker could buy a T with less than four months' pay),[10] and instituting hiring practices that identified the best workers, including disabled people considered unemployable by other firms.[10] Employee turnover plunged, productivity soared, and with it, the cost per vehicle plummeted. Ford cut prices again and again and invented the system of franchised dealers who were loyal to his brand name. Wall Street had criticized Ford's generous labor practices when he began paying workers enough to buy the products they made.[12]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ford_Motor_Company

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

If you look..you'll see that I posted the SAME MATERIAL already....

Ford set the 5 day week in 1914....didnt sign a UAW contract unil 1941....

So clearly the union went back in time somehow?

Sorry man...chicken and egg..and when ford did it...Ford employee's BECAME the HIGHEST PAID WORKERS IN DETRIOT.....how is that even possible if what you say about Unions forcing Ford to change where true?

Ford pay would have been lagging behind the Union shops....

Yet it clearly wasnt the case...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

It's a load of crap what these union suck-ups keep saying about "thanking Unions for 5 day work weeks".

We can thank Henry Ford for the 5 day work week and higher pay in an effort to keep union hacks OUT of his company.

And it worked for 30+ years. Henry Ford was able to keep the union leaches away from his highly skilled and highly paid workers from the early 1900's until 1941.

Next time some Union hack butt kisser like Lilypad tries to feed America that load of crap about how Unions gave America the 5 day work week, higher pay bla bla bla remind them that Henry Ford did all that 30 years before Ford signed a union contract.

Shall we move on to the Union hack lie about employer supplied healthcare? Union hack morons had nothing to do with employer healthcare either. That came from WWII and the wage freeze in place.
History: Health Insurance Gained Popularity Due To Wage Controls During WWII
http://the-resistance.posterous.com/history-health-insurance-gained-popu...

Now, what is it that unions do for their members? NOTHING? Besides taking a Union hacks money to pay off politicians to grease the plams of the Union Leaders, unions haven't done squat.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Lib

"Next time some Union hack butt kisser like Lilypad tries to feed America that load of crap about how Unions gave America the 5 day work week..."

Show me exactly where I said that.

" Unions have what they have, in both the public and private sector, because inept management negotiators handed them the keys to the shop. You can't blame workers for that."

You stand in denial that the Negotiators for Govt are not bought and paid for by the public unions.....it's collusion....

The unions are hand pick democrats who will sit at the table and spend the taxpayer money in favor of the unions....who in turn give money to democrats...

Once again...I'm in a private sector union....I have to compete in the private sector...a public union does NOT...they can hold the tax payer hostage...just as they are trying to do in Wisconsin....

Once again from a union libtard ..."why do you have a right to your money?"

That sums up the public union position....which is also plain old fashioned COMMUNISM....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Such an uproar! I was simply pointing out that Henry Ford was NOT the father of the five-day work week. Your knowledge of labor history is apparently limited. Do some research and move on.

"You stand in denial that the Negotiators for Govt are not (sic) bought and paid for by the public unions.....it's collusion...."

I think you mean negotiators for GOVERNMENT are bought and paid for by the UNIONS. Are you really dumb enough to believe management hires and pays union-busting law firms huge amounts of money to negotiate for them who then turn around and give everything away because unions bribed them? Where do you get this crackpot BS? Collusion, my ass. Like I said before, unions have what they have because of management (and their negotiators') incompetence and stupidity.

Such an uproar! I was simply pointing out that Henry Ford was NOT the father of the five-day work week. Your knowledge of labor history is apparently limited. Do some research and move on.

I quoted and sourced the documentation....you have yet to counter it with anything..no link..no quote...no source.....

"You stand in denial that the Negotiators for Govt are not (sic) bought and paid for by the public unions.....it's collusion...."

I think you mean negotiators for GOVERNMENT are bought and paid for by the UNIONS. Are you really dumb enough to believe management hires and pays union-busting law firms huge amounts of money to negotiate for them who then turn around and give everything away because unions bribed them? Where do you get this crackpot BS? Collusion, my ass. Like I said before, unions have what they have because of management (and their negotiators') incompetence and stupidity.

Still trying to meld public sector unions and private sector unions into one group....

Sorry...not going to work....

What I said was clear..but I'll rephrase it for your limited abilities.....please try and keep up....

Public Union give money to Democrat.

Democrat give money to public Union.

Pubic Union give money to Democrat.

Democrat do Public Union bidding.

Public Union push for higher taxes.

Tax payer want lower taxes.

Public Union and Democrat attack tax payer.

Public Union give money to Democrat.

Democrat raises taxes.

It's called "organizational incest"....the pattern is quite clear....and it's coming to a screeching halt...thus the freak out .....

It always boils down to this...

"give us yo stuff"

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Let's cut to the chase. What your posts really imply is that because public workers are employed by the taxpayers they shouldn't have any rights. At this point, I don't believe a majority of Ohio taxpayers agree with you. Let's wait and see how the referendum on SB5 progresses.

For 35 years and God knows how many contracts, I watched a public sector union destroy mangement negotiators who weren't nearly as smart as the union negotiators. Public sector managers get dumber all the time because they are the in-bred offspring of their own crony system known as "screw up and move up." That's the real reason for SB5 - public management so incompetent the Republican legislature had to step in and save their sorry asses. Put the blame where it really belongs. Hey, if they're so willing to bend over, why not?

The man asks for citation and you change the subject. Your teachers failed you. Cite, Cite, Cite!

"What your posts really imply is that because public workers are employed by the taxpayers they shouldn't have any rights."

How do infer that this is what he implies? Again citations please.

No one is saying that public workers shouldn't have rights. However they don't need a union to get them. They are set by the laws, standards, and practices set forth by the government.

The problem with a union contract is when you have a politician negiotiating a union contract with a union boss who guaranteed union money for poltical donation then they are arguing from the same side of the table. The taxpayer is not fairly represented. Where are the rights for the taxpayer? Unions attempt to buy elections (to this I will cite the Arkansas Senate primary of 2010 and the WI supreme court special election of two weeks ago) and rig the negiotiation.

Luckily due to the financial crisis our governement has us in taxpayers have awakened to the scheme (again I will cite AR 2010 and WI 2011)

MikeyA

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/whaples.work.hours.us

"How do infer that this is what he implies? Again citations please."

Do you understand the words imply and infer? (BTW, love your gibberish)

"No one is saying that public workers shouldn't have rights."

What rights should they have? Do you understand that unions have the right to exist?

"The problem with a union contract is when you have a politician negiotiating a union contract with a union boss who guaranteed union money for poltical donation then they are arguing from the same side of the table."

WTF are you talking about? Your understanding of labor negotiations is zilch.

"Do you understand the words imply and infer? (BTW, love your gibberish)" Yes I do. Do you? Here's a quick tutorial so you will understand what I wrote was not gibberish. http://grammartips.homestead.com/imply.html You infer because you make a judgement that he was trying to imply something. As the concepts get harder I'll continue to explain them for you.

"What rights should they have? Do you understand that unions have the right to exist?" A right to exist, yes. A right to be used in negotiations, no. Do you understand the difference? Again I will explain the concepts to you if need be.

"Your understanding of labor negotiations is zilch." Again please cite or explain where I am wrong. You can't tell me I don't know anything and not back it up and expect to be taken seriously. Please see how I have explained and cited above. I believe your understanding of your government is zilch.

MikeyA

"Here's a quick tutorial so you will understand what I wrote was not gibberish."

I was referring to your twisted verbiage. I don't need grammar lessons from you or anyone else.

"A right to be used in negotiations, no."

Flatly wrong. If the union is the collective bargaining agent, it is the ONLY entity that can be used to represent workers in negotiations. Do you know what a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGENT is? I don't think YOU understand the difference.

"Again please cite or explain where I am wrong."

Politicians don't sit at the negotiating table, EVER, on either side. This is some of the worst nonsense I've ever heard. If you meant something else, please explain.

"I believe your understanding of your government is zilch."

if you don't understand public sector unions, you also have a lot to learn about government.

" was referring to your twisted verbiage. I don't need grammar lessons from you or anyone else." Do you need honesty lessons? You were the one who asked "Do you understand the words imply and infer? (BTW, love your gibberish)"

" If the union is the collective bargaining agent, it is the ONLY entity that can be used to represent workers in negotiations. Do you know what a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGENT is? I don't think YOU understand the difference." Maybe you didn't understand me. Either that or your lieing. I considering the content of the threads above either are probable.

"Politicians don't sit at the negotiating table, EVER, on either side. This is some of the worst nonsense I've ever heard. If you meant something else, please explain." Really? Are you ignorant or lieing? It's laid out in the Civil Service Relief Act of 1978 and Intergovernmental Personnel Act of 1970. While a politician serving a term may not sit at a table they have beneath them political appointees as agency heads or representatives from the Office of Personnel Management. Those people are normally..... politiicians! Of course state gov'ts can differ but normally not by much and are organized in very similar fashions. Truth is every governmental employee serves at the pleasure of the President, Governor, or Mayor therein.

"if you don't understand public sector unions, you also have a lot to learn about government." I work in government. It is the reality of my life. Thus, I am fully versed with the way it works.

MikeyA

I'm starting to lose patience with you, Mikey. You asked me for a citation of something that was implied and inferred. Can't be done. That's why I asked you if you knew the meanings of the words imply and infer. Get it now?

"Maybe you didn't understand me. Either that or your [sic] lieing [sic]. I [sic] considering the content of the threads above either are probable."

You still haven't figured out what a collective bargaining agent is, have you?

"Are you ignorant or lieing?"

Too bad you used "lieing" while asking me if I'm ignorant.

There is Civil Service law, but Civil Service, as such, is not a union. Scott Walker (Wisconsin governor) told public workers Civil Service law would protect them. Now, if Civil Service were a union, he wouldn't be telling them that, would he?

"Can't be done. That's why I asked you if you knew the meanings of the words imply and infer. Get it now?" Ah but it can be done.

Did you just wake up and decide "Zeitgeist believes public workers have no rights"? No you didn't. Something he wrote led you to decide that he believes that. I asked you for a citation (still never given). All you'd have to do is quote what he wrote that brought you to that since he never said "I believe public workers have no rights".

"Too bad you used "lieing" while asking me if I'm ignorant." Please look through my posts there are plenty of spelling mistakes. I don't contend that I'm perfect and I always post in informal language. I also have a tendancy to write "its" where I mean "it's". Do me a favor. Go through every one of my posts since I started posting on
SB. Take note of every spelling mistake and log them for me. Don't post again until it's done. I await your results.

MikeyA

Mikey's suffering from PTSD or post-traumatic stress disorder from one to many tours in some God awful third world countries. It took awhile to diagnose the symptoms but you can tell his dysfunction by his trouble assimilating back into American life after every tour. Thank you for your service!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

How dare a company build a plant, hire people to work, then complain when those people don't work.

BOO-FUKIN-HOOO! That will teach a company to build a manufacturing plant in America.

Should have built the plant in Mexico or India where the Union crybabies would be trampled to death from someone else climbing over their dead carcass to get the job that the union slakers are too damn lazy to do.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Ford was a nobody until 1914 when he announced a $5.00 per day pay scale for his workers. This move brought him nationwide publicity.

Hundreds of thousands of men from all over the U.S. arrived in Detroit, and Ford had the pick of the youngest and strongest, to man his mass production rapidly moving assembly line.

In order for the men to qualify for the $5.00 per day pay scale they had to meet certain criteria set up by Ford. He set up a special department modeled after the Inquisition called the Sociology Department. The initial staff consisted of 30 "investigators" who visited the homes of all his workers and noted every detail of their private lives. Any worker who got divorced, used alcohol, or took in boarders was disqualified from the higher pay scale. Here is a quote from a Ford biography:

At its worst, the new department was a mildly tyrannical instrument which sowed the seeds of inquisition at the Ford Motor Co. Its agents became, to some extent, collectors of tales and suspicions. Examined on their doorsteps, wives were called upon to testify against husbands, children against parents. Hearsay as well as fact found its way to a card catalogue where a record was kept of every worker's deviations. To avoid getting demerits in this index, the wily Ford employees sometimes beat the game by only pretending an interest in the rules. To some extent, prying induced lying. As Ford was to put it in his autobiography, his home visitors made an effort to break up the "evil custom" of taking in male boarders. To get around this prohibition, certain of his workmen and their wives simply passed off lodgers as "brothers" or "cousins. (Sward, The Legend of Henry Ford, p. 59).
http://www.reformation.org/henry-ford.html

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

some of you have conveniently left out how Ford FORCED workers to work 18-20 hour shifts with no breaks...My grandfather was one of those workers. He witnessed Ford's thugs physically and verbally intimidate workers who wanted to go home after an 18hr work day with only one or no breaks. I'm so sure you conservatives would be willing to work in those conditions...however,...I'm starting to realize you are so willing to suck mangament pole that maybe you actually would like the daily bending over and screwing of "upper management."

Also...quit pretending that all of your tax dollars you pay gives you an exhaustive say so in what public workers should make. This idea that public workers should have no rights because you pay taxes is absurd. In a teachers case...if the state requires them to have masters degrees at their own expense...continued certifications at their own expense...then their salary should justify the requirements demanded by the state.

You pinheads who hate police, fire and teachers and think they're overpaid are simply jealous because your "private" sector careers only remind you that you could never do a selfless job that requires you invest in the betterment of others. You realize that you are in this life only for yourself...and it eats at the core of your existence to know you are selfish and thoughtless of others.

I hope when your house catches on fire and your kid is to stupid to get of of the house because he was taught by a low-paid inexperienced teacher....I hope we will not hear you complain.
DON'T BLAME ME..I DIDN'T MAKE JOHN BOENER CRY!!

First off I'm going to just skim over your comments about Ford. First off, you give no citation other than annecdotal evidence and it counters an argument that has already been cited.

Secondly you say this. "You pinheads who hate police, fire and teachers and think they're overpaid are simply jealous because your "private" sector careers only remind you that you could never do a selfless job that requires you invest in the betterment of others. You realize that you are in this life only for yourself...and it eats at the core of your existence to know you are selfish and thoughtless of others."

First off, I don't know a person out there who hates police, fire, or teachers. I am against all of them striking. I am for whatever wage they will earn that will bring results (which teachers do not do).

Yet you contend that I can't do a selfless job. Actually I do. I have a job that requires a lot of sacrifice not only of myself but of my family. Here is what the average teacher makes in Ohio http://teacherportal.com/salary/Ohio-teacher-salary 50K. What does a Lieutenant in the military with 9 years in make? I recommend you google it. Keep in mind I don't get summers off and I HAVE worked 20+ hour days a minimum of 6 times in the last year ( I don't keep count but I can guarantee at least six).

So stop whining. There's no crying in the breast milk. Be thankful your wife actually has a job. A lot of good people don't.

MikeyA

"I am for whatever wage they will earn that will bring results (which teachers do not do)."

Where's your proof? Citation, please.

You don't know anyone who hates teachers? How long have you been posting here?

"What does a Lieutenant in the military with 9 years in make? I recommend you google it. Keep in mind I don't get summers off and I HAVE worked 20+ hour days a minimum of 6 times in the last year,,,"

Maybe you should have become a teacher in an urban public school system. (Combat pay, however, does not apply.)

Proof. You want proof. I thought the fact our schools were failing was widely known. But sure I have no problem giving citations.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=4732319&page=1 http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2010-09-23-science-education_N.htm?... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/education/16child.html

I hope 3 difference sources are good enough. If not let me know. I can get you more.

"You don't know anyone who hates teachers? How long have you been posting here?" I'd ask you to back up the claim. I know of plenty on here who are against employing bad teachers and are for revamping the system. That does not mean they "hate teachers". Again with inferring (please see the other post for a link to the definition).

"Maybe you should have become a teacher in an urban public school system." I'm patriotic not stupid. By saying 'Maybe I should try self-dentistry' doesn't make it a good idea.

"(Combat pay, however, does not apply.)" Combat pay is $225 a month. Average deployment in the MC is 6 months. Do I need to do the math for you? I have already had to define infer. PLUS Teachers get more for overtime and they still get 3 months off. So again, I'm tired of hearing the teachers whine.

MikeyA

Did you ever stop to consider that there are other reasons for student failure? Here are a few:

I don't like school, so I don't go. I'd rather hang out with the rest of my truant friends.
I go, but I'm an undisciplined asshole bred of lazy, disinterested parents, so I disrupt class.
I don't pay attention because I don't care.
Homework? Sh--, you gotta be kiddin me.
Who need schol? I gonna git me a skolaship and play profesonel ball.
I really love school and want to learn, but it's hard because my mom's never home to
help me with my homework.

"I know of plenty on here who are against employing bad teachers and are for revamping the system."

The teachers' union in Toledo started a very successful program to get rid of bad TPS teachers. The school board and administration fought for years against it. When principals did the evaluating it was rare for anyone to get fired.

"I'm patriotic, not stupid."

Thanks for the compliment.

OT? Oh, you mean the hours at home grading papers, recording grades, making lesson plans, etc., etc. And that 3 months off? Actually, mid June to mid August is 2 months. Buildings have to be open two weeks before school starts so rooms can be prepared. (Ask an elementary teacher about that.) Teachers at the bottom of the pay scale find summer employment if they can; others spend their summers working on that now-mandated master's degree. Have you ever tried to write a thesis during the school year?

Wow I give citations and you give me annecdotes and "what ifs". Maybe it's none of the things you suggest. Maybe the kids are being controlled by an alien race that wants to enslave us? I can play the Maybe game too.

"The teachers' union in Toledo started a very successful program to get rid of bad TPS teachers." So it's successful. So if I google (I need to google it because you don't support it with citation or known fact) the results of the TPS students in SAT scores, the profeciency test, and graduation rates they'd all be at the top? I don't think so. (quick google search http://webapp1.ode.state.oh.us/proficiency_reports/data/csvtoasp.asp?fil... doesn't back up your claim)

"And that 3 months off? Actually, mid June to mid August is 2 months." You forgot spring break -1 week Xmas break - 2 weeks. Bringing us to 2 2/3rds months. But yet..... The school year for teachers begins 25 Aug and ends 6 June. That's HARDLY mid of either month. So yes.... 3 months off a year.

As for working at home. Do you think I don't work at home? My wife is a government employee, she does work at home too. I get calls at 3am on Saturday nights from Marines who are drunk and need a ride. I either drive them or arrange a ride for them at that point again a part of my job because I have a duty to those Marines. You don't hear me whining about it. My pay is just fine and I don't get 3 months off. So again Stop Whining! You knew it was like this when you chose your career path.

MikeyA

"Wow I give citations and you give me annecdotes and "what ifs". Maybe it's none of the things you suggest."

Talk to some TPS teachers (if you have the stomach for it) and you'll hear worse. People like you love to hurl accusations without checking out both sides of the story.

If you want to learn more about the program Google "Toledo Plan Innovations in Government" or "The Toledo Plan" or "Toledo Plan education." There's way too much to cite individually.

"I get calls at 3am on Saturday nights from Marines who are drunk and need a ride."

Jesus, please don't let the enemy find out about that.

I am NOT a teacher. You couldn't pay me enough to shell out money for a 4-year degree and then spend thousands more to get a master's in order to spend 35 years in a profession that's so disrespected and (sometimes) hated by students, parents, and the general public. But I have lots of friends and relatives who made that choice.

"Talk to some TPS teachers (if you have the stomach for it) and you'll hear worse." Haven't you figured out that I don't deal in annecdotes? I deal in facts. Why would I need a teachers opinion when I have the raw data to make an objective judgement?

On your suggestion I googled the "Toledo Plan". So Toledo has been doing peer evaluations since 1981. It's obviously doing a crackerjack job given that I've already showed you the comparison of other districts in the county and how poorly Toledo does. You keep touting this program but the data proves that it hasn't worked. TPS students continue to get dumber. Peer evaluations have failed. TPS has failed. The only person who's underpaid at TPS is the janitor who has to clean the droul from off the desks.

"Jesus, please don't let the enemy find out about that." So now you believe that military members should not be allowed to legally drink in their off time? Any other legal rights you'd care to deprive them of?

"But I have lots of friends and relatives who made that choice." And what's your point? Do you want a cookie? I'm sorry I only give those out to those who correctly define the difference between infer and imply. Have you been practicing?

MikeyA

"Why would I need a teachers [sic] opinion when I have the raw data to make an objective judgement?"

Raw data? You can't treat education as if it were an industry because the raw material isn't equal. You don't build kids on an assembly line. And there's no level playing field. By that I mean there are too many variables. How much of your "data" broke down school districts by such variables as socio-economic status and tax base? You do understand that schools are funded by their tax bases, right? Smaller districts with wealthy tax bases always perform better than their poverty-driven urban counterparts. Parents are another variable. Some of them are interested in raising decent, respectful, educated human beings and others just plain don't give a damn. Kids are, before they ever set foot in a school, the products of their varied environments. That's the raw material teachers have to work with and it explains the impossibility of a level playing field. Not everyone is working with the same start-up material, and that's why numbers don't tell the whole story.

"Peer evaluations have failed."

Look at it this way - the program has removed hundreds of people from the classroom who don't belong there, and would still be there otherwise. TPS has removed more teachers for failure to meet performance standards than any other district in the U.S. since the inception of the program. How do you classify that as failure rather than a step in the right direction? Public education has been entrenched in the same rut for generations. If you think you're going to change it overnight, pull your head out of the clouds and then at least acknowledge that there are people trying to effect change and improvement by doing things differently.

BTW, Mikey, the word is spelled "drool." I learned that in TPS. Where did you get your education?

Why are you posting? I haven't gotten my report on all the words I've mispelled on this site.

Of course you may miss the fact that I am now purposefully mispelling words. Did you get those yet? I'm having fun doing it. Still waiting on my report though.

"Raw data? You can't treat education as if it were an industry because the raw material isn't equal." Everything is raw data. It's called statistics. Did you ever take that in college? You need raw data to make an objective opinion. Without raw data every opinion made will be subjective. My mentors over the years have consistently conveyed to me that the best way to be a leader is to not make emotional decisions. They have the greatest tendency to be wrong because they are not reasoned nor based upon logic.

"Look at it this way - the program has removed hundreds of people from the classroom who don't belong there, and would still be there otherwise." Yet it hasn't affected the students positively. If you replace a bad toilet with a bad toilet your house is still gonna smell like shit.

Public education has been entrenched in the same rut for generations. Public education has really only been around for three generations. Prior to that it was sparse and only seen in select cities. Likewise there was no standardized testing and most didn't even have grades. So we can only realistically look at 60 years of data. Which doesn't give us a lot to work with. So then we must look at comparisons and correlations within the same control or in the case of what I posted the controlled variables are the county and the timeframe.

MikeyA

"some of you have conveniently left out how Ford FORCED workers to work 18-20 hour shifts with no breaks...My grandfather was one of those workers. He witnessed Ford's thugs physically and verbally intimidate workers who wanted to go home after an 18hr work day with only one or no breaks."

Let's assume I believe YOU instead of the Detroit News for a second. Where did your grandfather work after he quit? You do realize that he had a choice, right? In order to make what Ford was paying, he had to work the same as everyone else who was at the Ford plant but not being a crybaby.

Where did grandpa work after he quit? I assume he did not put up with all that "abuse" you mentioned. After all, a real man would have told Ford to shove it and found another job. Sure it might have paid less, but a real man would have worked less hours for less money. He had a choice.

Second, Ford was also one of the first companies to institute the 8 hour work day, so you or your grand-pa are full of $hit when you vomit up the lie I quoted above. The 5 day work week, 8 hour work day started officially on Sept. 25th, 1926.
http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1926/september_25_1926_86099.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford
http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-...
http://www.historyorb.com/events/september/25

Here is the article published in the Detroit News that shows your grandpa was a liar.

And finally, if your grandpa was a factory laborer, I assume your daddy was a factory laborer, and I can tell by the way you suck Union butt that you are a mindless factory laborer.
Why is it my fault that three generations of your family are not smart enough to do anything else but be factory laborers? Why do you expect people to pay you uneducated Union morons so much money when your ignorant ass can and should be replaced by a robot?

Damn, man! Grow a pair like your grandpa should have done! Go to school! Get a job that requires more than turning oxygen into carbon dioxide. Get a spine and quit depending on your Union leaders to give you the breadcrumbs. Try and make it on your own.

Or, do you absolutely NEED to have Unions behind you because you cannot make it on your own? I hear McDonalds is hiring. And without an education, without your union thug backing, you are nothing more than a high-school dropout with no skills that a monkey does not have.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

"Clearly Libs Can Blow Me"

Hrm...libs can blow you?....but you are a lib.... wouldnt that be like political incest?

Kinky...

some of you have conveniently left out how Ford FORCED workers to work 18-20 hour shifts with no breaks...My grandfather was one of those workers. He witnessed Ford's thugs physically and verbally intimidate workers who wanted to go home after an 18hr work day with only one or no breaks. I'm so sure you conservatives would be willing to work in those conditions..

Got a link?...some proof?...or are we once again simply supposed to take your word for it?.

however,...I'm starting to realize you are so willing to suck mangament pole that maybe you actually would like the daily bending over and screwing of "upper management."

Ah yes...more homoerotica....no good libatrd post is complete without buggery of some type..

Once again....since you cant seem to grasp this simple fact...I'm in a Union..

Also...quit pretending that all of your tax dollars you pay gives you an exhaustive say so in what public workers should make.

Yeah!...who the HELL do we tax payers think we are???

The BOSS?

We're a bunch of ingrates arent we....daring to tell the people we PAY..... HOW MUCH we will pay...

This idea that public workers should have no rights because you pay taxes is absurd. In a teachers case...if the state requires them to have masters degrees at their own expense...continued certifications at their own expense...then their salary should justify the requirements demanded by the state.

Bullcrap....if it's a requirement to keep the job...meet it...or find another job....that's how it works in the REAL world...

You pinheads who hate police,

WHO hates Police?

WHO calls them pigs?

Note what the cop says tells to the jerk bitching at the end..."were the reason you can do that and say that asshole"

WHO throws rocks, bags of urine and fecal matter at Police?

Who RIOTS against Police?

fire

Sorry..save it for the other libtards...we had a fireman show up on this site recently and threaten to strike...I reminded him of the 1979 stikes and if he thought WE THE PEOPLE would put up with that shit again he was sorely mistaken....

and teachers and think they're overpaid are simply jealous because your "private" sector careers only remind you that you could never do a selfless job that requires you invest in the betterment of others.

Once again..I remeber the teachers strike....and the THREATS to strike if the didnt get a 9% raise a few years back...

You realize that you are in this life only for yourself...and it eats at the core of your existence to know you are selfish and thoughtless of others.

Selfish and thoughtless for wanting to control how our TAX MONEY is spent...

Yep...that's the exactl attitude I expect....

"who do you have a right to YOUR money"

I hope when your house catches on fire and your kid is to stupid to get of of the house because he was taught by a low-paid inexperienced teacher....I hope we will not hear you complain.
DON'T BLAME ME..I DIDN'T MAKE JOHN BOENER CRY!!

Meh...Political pocket lint.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

"Once again..I remeber the teachers strike....and the THREATS to strike if the didnt get a 9% raise a few years back..."

WHICH strike? What year was it? How many years had teachers not had a raise? Do you remember the settlement? Better be sure you can answer these questions. Knowledge is power.

"Selfish and thoughtless for wanting to control how our TAX MONEY is spent..."

I wasn't aware that public employees didn't pay taxes. And since, according to many of you, their wages are exorbitant aren't they paying more taxes than you?

From the New York Times....

5-DAY, 40-HOUR WEEK FOR FORD EMPLOYES; New Permanent Working Policy With Saturday and Sunday Shut-Down, Is Announced. RETAIN $6 A DAY MINIMUM Change Affecting 50,000 Men Will Mean 3,000 Increase in Force, Edsel Ford Says.

.Special to The New York Times. ();
March 25, 1922,
, Section , Page 1, Column , words

"DETROIT, Mich., March 24.--Official announcement that a forty-hour week as a permanent working policy will prevail in the plant of the Ford Motor Company and other Ford interests was made tonight by Edsel Ford, President. The work of each plant will be curtailed to five days, with a shutdown on Saturday and Sunday."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70612FC3D5D1A7A93C7AB178...

Just in case you flunked out of school before learning how to divide, 40 hours divided by 5 days is 8 hours a day.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

The Battle of the Overpass

By Jenny Nolan / The Detroit News

From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=172#ixzz1JvFkQgcS

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

WOW..thanks dogboy...I needed another reference documenting rioting by union thugs...

From your link:

After a successful strike at Kelsey-Hayes, an automotive supplier, the tide seemed to turn against the UAW and it was decided to launch a major operation. On Jan. 11, 1937, the Reuther brothers organized a sit-down strike at the GM Fisher 2 plant in Flint. After a pitched three-hour battle with police, in which strikers were gassed and shot with buckshot, the workers routed the police with water hoses and makeshift industrial-sized slingshots, hurling two-pound metal hinges. In what became known as the Battle of the Running Bulls, the UAW began an offensive that snowballed.

In February, they staged an attack on the Flint Chevy Plant No. 4 after a diversionary pass at Chevy No. 9. That successful operation was the final blow to GM, which signed a contract with the UAW. In March of that year, 192,642 workers staged sit-down strikes at their jobs. Chrysler capitulated, then Studebaker and Cadillac. By early summer, Walter Reuther's West Side Local 174 had grown from 78 to 30,000 members. They had won an hourly minimum wage, abolition of piecework pay, grievance committees, seniority, and most importantly, a voice.

Oh...almost forgot...

Walter Philip Reuther (September 1, 1907 – May 9, 1970) was an American labor union leader, who made the United Automobile Workers a major force not only in the auto industry but also in the Democratic Party in the mid 20th century. He was a socialist in the early 1930s; he became a leading liberal and supporter of the New Deal coalition
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Reuther

Commies.

Also of note...sit down strikes were an illegal occupation of private property.

.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Doughboy points out the problem with modern day unions.

Henry Ford voluntarily gave his employees almost double their wages in 1914.
Henry Ford voluntarily gave his employees the 40 hour work week in 1926.

And the blood-sucking leach parasites in the unions still wanted more and more and more. So on May 26, 1937, the blood sucking leach parasites in the unions started getting their drones together and threatened to close the plant that Henry Ford had built FOUR YEARS BEFORE FORD HAD AGREED TO ANY UNION CONTRACT.. The leach bastards in the unions didn't care about how many employees Henry Ford had given jobs, they just wanted a piece of the company that they had nothing to do with building. Hell, they even rioted in the streets to blackmail Ford, as pointed out by Wolfboy.

THAT is why SB5 was needed. Because, when you give a mouse a cookie, he will want a glass of milk.

Give a Union whore a raise, and he thinks he's the frikin owner of the company.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

"Democrat give money to public Union."
How?

"Democrat do Public Union bidding."
How?

"Public Union push for higher taxes."
How? Why would they want their members to pay higher taxes, that is so back asswards.

"Tax payer want lower taxes."
You are right on there! But maybe the government should start the cutting with the managers who don't actually do the work. Does Bell REALLY need deputy mayors? I mean he''s got two? or more, not sure? Did he really have to give raises to HIS staff because boo freaking hoo, they were doing the jobs of two or three people and deserved it. Its hypocritical!

There are plenty of places that can be cut, before screwing over the workers. (BTW, i am not in favor of a raise for union members at this time either).

Does city council members really need a salary? Hell no they don't, give them a per diem, they don't need vehicle expenses either, cut that!

"Democrat give money to public Union."
How?

Not just public unions but private sector unions too...Through stupid demands from Democrat city council members who try and strong arm developers into using Union labor.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2011/04/16/Chinese-reassessing-purchase...

Note...your elected DEMOCRATS didnt damand LOCAL LABOR be used...they demanded UNION LABOR be used.

Case closed.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

I agree with you, They should have demanded Local Labor. I really don't care if a union contractor gets the job or not. But i DO NOT WANT some scab company from freaking Alabama to come here and do the work and take their money back home.

"There is Civil Service law, but Civil Service, as such, is not a union. Scott Walker (Wisconsin governor) told public workers Civil Service law would protect them. Now, if Civil Service were a union, he wouldn't be telling them that, would he?"

Who said Civil Service was a union? I'd love to sea wear (darn more spelling errors to log, did you get them?). Civil Service laws do protect public workers. Have you read the act? It clearly spells out what can be done and what can't.

That's the point of myself and Z. Public workers don't need unions. They are protected by State and Federal laws which govern what can and can't be done. Those laws came without collective bargaining. Likewise public employees also have Inspector Generals, whistleblower protection, and FOIA protections to assist them in any grievances.

What Scott Walker did was not illegal. It was a legal bill put into law despite the illegal actions of the fleeing lawmakers and the protesters.

MikeyA

My statement: "Politicians don't sit at the negotiating table, EVER, on either side."

Your reply: "Really? Are you ignorant or lieing? It's laid out in the Civil Service Relief Act of 1978 and Intergovernmental Personnel Act of 1970."

Take note that the subject was collective bargaining and union negotiations.

And now you contradict yourself: "Who said Civil Service was a union?"

You either scored poorly in reading comprehension in elementary school or your ignorance of the subject has led you to back yourself into a corner.

I'm sorry you can't spell, but you need to remember that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Civil Services have unions but they themselves are not the union and I never implied as much.

You still haven't cited where "Politicians don't sit at the negotiating table, EVER, on either side." to witch I posted two laws where collective bargaining and employee rights are regulated. Technically since these laws were passed by.... wait for it... Politicians then it automatically disproves that they don't have a say in employee negotiations because they've already said their peace although they are not content with just that.

However I correctly outlined that someone sits opposite of the union. They are normally a political appointee (who is normally them self a... wait for it... politician) or a representative of a politician (Chief of Staff, Under Secretary, Deputy, Office of Personnel Affairs). Either way the politician does affect the process which negates your original point that they didn't have a hand in it at all. Trust me, when you serve at the pleasure of an elected official they WILL get their say.

MikeyA

"They are protected by State and Federal laws which govern what can and can't be done. Those laws came without collective bargaining. Likewise public employees also have Inspector Generals, whistleblower protection, and FOIA protections to assist them in any grievances. "

I don't mean to get in the middle of your discussion, but that was a good one. Did you know that is perfectly legal to be discriminated against because of your age? As long as your UNDER the age of 50 that is, unless of course you had UNION protection, which i didn't when it happened to me.

Unions discriminate because of age all the time. It's called seniority which is the basis upon how the Unions work.

My brother was in a union and even though he had less complaints and code violations than more senior members they got jobs and he was forced to work under the table because they were older and had been in the union longer. Of course my brother wised up realized the union wasn't really working for him and enlisted in the service. He used that experience to become a supervisor which he's been quite successful despite getting out in the middle of a recession. He's switched jobs twice and received more pay and responsibilities in the last two years. It pays to be smart.

Notice I'm not complaining about age discrimination though. It happens everywhere. Not receiving a social security check until the age of 70 is both age discrimination and race discrimination.

Why can't a responsible 14 year old drive? Why can 18 year olds vote but not drink? Why do some states make older people retake driver's tests?

MikeyA

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