Poverty in America

I sent the following E-mail to Fred at WSPD.
"Magna Toledo expansion: The jobs will pay an average of $13.46 an hour for assembly workers and $19.46 an hour for skilled-trades workers, city officials said.
WOW! How many families will be able to support their families on that wage? Those jobs will pay no taxes to support your Toledo government."

Finding my E-mail read on the WSPD morning show Oct 29th, I call the host and for the next half hour the show had a discussion on the living wage in Toledo. Since I was referencing the $13.46 wage the host asked me what I thought was a living wage? I quoted a living wage for a family of four in Toledo roughly at 22/hour. Of course this took in consideration the cost of funding your retirement account and health care benefits which in a civilized society would be factored into this wage if you didn't want these people to not feed off the government totally. Anyway I realize the limits as to what can be discussed on a talk radio program so much of what was said was not of any great depth of explanation. Many business owners chimed in as usual to the conservative program offering their view of the world as a business owner. Only one comment to the show touched on the true crux of the problem. And he stated that for himself making that wage would afford the government no tax revenue in fact it would give a tax credit to the family living in poverty of somewhere I believe around $800 a year not to mention the burden on social services. So you see with global competition and trade comes poverty for America as the race to the bottom forces the few with jobs to work for wages that Americans are not accustom to and will not continue the American standard of living. I told Fred why do you think that all these small business are failing here in Toledo? Look around at all the closed strip mall shops why would that be? Well one, unemployment and two, non living wage employment. So here we are again kind of like the chicken or the egg if the station wants all employees to work at unaffordable wages then the employers will have no customers.

The following excerpt was written in better times of 2006 for full story:
http://www.povertyinamerica.psu.edu/
"Christina Mattison of Fort Ann is in a similar situation. She earns about $7.50 an hour as a cashier for a retail chain, and her fiancee, James Mariani, earns twice that much as an overnight retail stocker. But their combined wages are barely enough to cover household expenses, let alone pay a baby-sitter for their four children — so they work opposite shifts, staggering their sleep schedules as needed. “We’ve been struggling a lot lately, especially with gas prices going up,” Mattison said. “This winter’s going to be tough, because we have fuel heat, but I don’t even want to think about that yet.”

According to the government’s definition of poverty, as measured by the U.S. Census Bureau, neither of these families are poor. The official poverty threshold for a family of four is $19,806 in annual income, which translates to a full-time hourly wage of about $9.50 in a single-income family. For a family with four children, like Mattison’s and Mariani’s, the threshold rises to about $26,000, or two workers earning $6.25 per hour. They are well past that mark.

But in recent years, many economists have pointed out that the poverty rate is calculated with an overly simplistic formula that hasn’t changed since the 1960s, and does not include the effect of factors like taxes, home ownership, health care and child care costs.

“There’s almost no place in America where you can live on $20,000 as a family of four…you need at least $36,000 to pay basic expenses,” said Amy Glasmeier, director of the Poverty in America project at Penn State University, which developed a city-specific Living Wage Calculator based on census data and economic statistics."

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You think that a "living wage" for a family of 4 in Toledo is $22 an hour? Interesting.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be factored into a "living wage." Are you talking about enough to get by, or are you talking about having some nice things on top of that?

That's about what I make, and I support my family of 4 in Sylvania Twp just fine. Even send my kids to private school. (Of course, I know how to budget well...something that many people never learned.)

I'd have to think your quote of $22/hour as the minimum "living wage" for Toledo is overestimating a little.

(Disclaimer - there have been times over the years where my husband has brought in some money. But he has been unemployed or underemployed most of that time, and spent that time focusing on child care instead.)

He forgot to tell you that 4 to 5 bucks an hour goes to union dues....LMAO...

Cant have a workers party without a good thuggish union behind it...

22 bucks an hour....to make 11 dollar big macs...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

* The average worker in a right to work state makes about $5,333 a year less than workers in other states
* 21 percent more people lack health insurance in right to work states compared to free-bargaining states
* Right to work states have a poverty rate of 12.5 percent, compared with 10.2 percent in other states
* Right to work makes it harder for unionized employers to compete for business
* Right to work brings government interference to private enterprise

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

All you can do is parrot Union propaganda:

You stuff is cut and paste from here:

http://www.unionvoice.org/miaflcio/alert-description.tcl?alert_id=1471861

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

These guidelines are of wages only. It does not take benefit costs such as 401K contributions or costly health care (which would add $6000 to$12000) in consideration.

The 2009 Poverty Guidelines for the
48 Contiguous States and the District of Columbia Persons in family Poverty guideline
1 $10,830
2 14,570
3 18,310
4 22,050
5 25,790
6 29,530
7 33,270
8 37,010
For families with more than 8 persons, add $3,740 for each additional person.

Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)
Who is eligible for the EITC?
If you were employed for at least part of 2008, you may be eligible for the EITC based on these general requirements:

* You earned less than $12,880 ($15,880 if married filing jointly) and did not have any qualifying children
* You earned less than $33,995 ($36,995 if married filing jointly) and have one qualifying child (See Who is a Qualifying Child Below)
* You earned less than $38,646 ($41,646 if married filing jointly) and have more than one qualifying child

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning the poverty level guidelines you had mentioned before. I know those are set on a federal level.

I was just curious about what type of lifestyle you'd think a person at "living wage" level would have. Because that $22/hour figure sounds high to me for a family of 4 in the city of Toledo.

But, perhaps we have different ideas about what lifestyle constitutes "living wage." Although I have close to the income level you cited, I feel like I live a lifestyle above the minimum "living wage" lifestyle. And I live in a suburb that's more expensive than living in the city of Toledo.

Obviously I don't live a caviar and champagne lifestyle. lol. But I have everything I need, plus a few "wants" and extras too.

I'm looking at the total package including benefits. The federal guidelines do not include these but a business looking to hire would look at it this way. So a 22/hr wage for a family of four does not really support you or your family. Do you have health care? Do you fund your retirement 401K, IRA? If you have neither you will be using government services at some point in your life that you didn't pay for. The global economy that we as Americans are now in does not support working Americans to a lifestyle they were accustom to. When you have Airplane Pilots making 20,000/year our country is in trouble. We were told to become educated for the jobs of the future but the future is now and we have 6 applicants for every job. Plus education costs limit the viability of obtaining a college degree that makes it economical if you carry huge loan costs. So what I'm saying here I don't think you're looking at all the costs of an American middle class life. Most home foreclosures are caused by medical bills or a loss of a job that pays a livable wage. Also you have to look at government, over 40% of the population do not pay taxes. This number is rising so how long will it be before our government is bankrupt? Who will pay for your Social Security if most of us are not paying the bills? When I here myopic discussion about wages from business (WSPD) who only look at their own selfish concern with a short term fix without looking at the big picture, that needs to be challenged. If we keep listening to this, as we have been, where will we be in ten years?

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

"Most home foreclosures are caused by medical bills or a loss of a job that pays a livable wage"

Where do you get the stats to back up this claim. Please cite them.

I ask because I know of at least 5 people who have foreclosed in the last 2 years and none fit.

You talk of the living wage yet we just increased minimum wage and with the exception of 2 times in the whole history of the minimum wage every time we've raised it we've seen joblessness increase.

Additionally you mention college. Currently education is a large portion of healthcare costs. And college students represent one of the largest groups of uninsured. Yet no where in any of the healthcare bills are students specifically targeted.

Additionally the price of college has increasted 7.5%. This is way beyond the 3% traditional inflation rate. http://stlouisfed.org/publications/itv/articles/?id=1722 Where is that reform?

It seems to me with most of this debate we are not dealing with the issues that really would make a difference.

MikeyA

Stats?...he dont need no stinkin stats....dont need no stinkin badges either!

No stats because it's a liberal myth used to club people into submission:

For example ,Countrywide...(not friends of angelo appearently.).

A decrease in household income led to 58.3 percent of all foreclosures
Medical bills and/or illness led to 13.2 percent of all foreclosures
Divorce led to 8.4 percent of all foreclosures
Inability to sell a home led to 6.1 percent of all foreclosures
Death caused 3.6 percent of all foreclosures

http://themortgagereports.com/foreclosures

Three states account for more than half the forclosures...with Cali WAY out in the lead...

It's just another "crisis" that needs "rescue" from Democrats who helped create the conditions in the first place...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

MikeyA tell me of the 5 people who have foreclosed and the circumstance that caused it? What are the issues that would make a difference? I've stated my case what is your belief?

I find the silence of Fred to be interesting after all we ran out of time on WSPD to fully debate the question of living wage.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Of the 5 people, Two had to move due to their job. One is in the middle of a very bad divorce. Two others essentially bought homes they could not afford.

Again you made a claim. You quoted a reason. All I have asked for is a citation and not some baseless claim.

I don't care what Fred thinks. I am against the living wage. Why? Because it causes higher unemployment and it is just a tool the unions use to try to get others to conform to their agenda.

Again, you made a claim I would like a citation please.

MikeyA

Sarah, You said " Although I have close to the income level you cited, I feel like I live a lifestyle above the minimum "living Wage" lifestyle".
I would be interested in learning how much more you make, [than 22$/hr] , what you pay monthly for food, rent or house pymt., taxes, insurance [Life, auto, homeowners or renters, HEALTH}, gasoline, lights. heat, telephone,public utilities, doctor bills etc.and your few "wants" and extras too? I know people that I would like to have this info, because as you said they never learned this .Plus you said that you live in "sylvania".!!! You did say that you send your kids to private school right?

Just so you don't think I'm crazy, I'll highlight a couple of points. We definitely don't live a "fancy" life (if by "fancy" you man having the best and newest of everything), but we are comfortable. And I certainly count my blessings for the things we do have!

1) We didn't get married until our late 20s - first/only marriage for each of us. So, for pretty much our whole 20s, we each only had one person (ourselves) to support financially. (Our only children are the 2 we had after we were married.) I'm not saying this because I think its a "better" choice than anyone elses - that's just the way it happened for us. But, that did help each of us to bring more savings/assets into the marriage than we might have if we'd married/had kids when we were younger.

2) We don't drive new cars or make car payments. I'm a total cheapskate when it comes to cars - as long as its still safe to be on the road, I'll drive it until it dies! (And then I replace it with a car I can pay cash for with some of the money I saved all along from making car payments. "What I can afford" isn't always...okay, ever...fancy, but it still gets me from point A to point B.) This also helps to save on car insurance as well.

3) We don't keep up with the hottest electronics on the market. Our cell phones and computer are relatively basic. Might seem "out of date" by some people's standards, but they meet our needs.

4) School - yes, our kids do go to Catholic school. To keep our out-of-pocket tuition payments as low as possible, I take full advantage of Scrip. (Scrip = a program where you purchase gift cards for grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants, retailers, etc. and earn a contribution percentage towards your tuition. I use the program to pay for all of our groceries, gas, Christmas and birthday presents, etc.) You have to put in a little extra effort to plan and budget your expenses, but its worth it. Reduces our tuition by nearly a third, and I don't buy anything I wouldn't already normally purchase. Basically, I get a 3-5% kickback on all of our groceries and gas (for example)...doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over the course of a year.

(Shoot - I'll have to continue this later...need to take care of something right now...)

EITC Thresholds and Tax Law Updates
Tax Year 2008
Earned income and adjusted gross income (AGI) must each be less than:

$38,646 ($41,646 married filing jointly) with two or more qualifying children
$33,995 ($36,995 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$12,880 ($15,880 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

Tax Year 2008 maximum credit:
* $4,824 with two or more qualifying children
* $2,917 with one qualifying child
* $438 with no qualifying children

Many pay no income tax or very little
A Tax Foundation survey found 56% of Americans think the amount of federal income tax they pay is too high. Those most likely to feel that way, according to the survey, include those making between $35,000 and $50,000.

But once the various tax breaks to which they're entitled are counted, the burdens of low- and middle-income tax filers as a group has been fairly low.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that for 2009, 43% of tax units (most of which are lower income households that may or may not file a return) will have no income tax liability or will have a negative income tax liability, meaning the government will actually pay them.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/pf/taxes/who_pays_most_least/

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

The Home Energy Assistance Program (HEAP) is a federally funded program administered by the Ohio Department of Development, Office of Community Service (OCS). It is designed to help eligible low-income Ohioans meet the high costs of home heating. If you are eligible for assistance, the amount of your one-time HEAP benefit wilI depend on federal funding levels, how many people live with you, total household income and the primary fuel you use to heat your home. In most cases, the one-time benefit will be a credit applied to your energy bill by your utility company (or fuel vendor).

2009-2010 Energy Assistance Application

Eligibility Requirements:
Applications for the 2009-2010 Regular HEAP program will be accepted August 1, 2009 through May 31, 2010. The total household income of an applicant must be at or below 200 percent of the Federal Fiscal Year 2009 federal poverty guidelines listed below:

Size of Household

Total Household Income Twelve Months
1
up to $21,660.00
2
$29,140.00
3
$36,620.00
4
$44,100.00
5
$51,580.00
6
$59,060.00
7
$66,540.00
8
$74,020.00
For households with more than 8 members, add $7,480 per member

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Meaningless statistics...

70 grand a year in New York or California ,is not the same as 70 grand a year in Toledo.

22hr as a "living wage" is rediculous...

Do the math....many union employee's making over 30 bucks an hour qualifiy for federal assistance if they have two kids...

Gonna call 50 grand a year poverty?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

"Do the math....many union employee's making over 30 bucks an hour qualifiy for federal assistance if they have two kids..."

Um..... maybe you should do the math, $30 an hour times 40 hour a week times 52 weeks a year is $62,400.

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