Blog this - Michael Miller takes on anonymous posters (yes you)

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But there remains an element of blogging and Web commentary that drags down the quality of conversation like a rotted corpse clinging to the heroine's ankles in a Stephen King story. Too many anonymous posters are electronic piss ants, crawling through the virtual dregs of more honorable people's thoughts and efforts.

When I have something to say, on this page or while posting on a blog site, I use my name. Whether I am criticizing the mayor, applauding someone's effort or working through the aftermath of a personal life change, I stand in the open, for whatever roses or rotten tomatoes are tossed my way.

That's accountability. That's why newspapers generally eschew unnamed sources, and why no newspaper with an understanding of ethics and responsibility publishes anonymous commentary. Show me one that does, and I'll show you a reckless publication you should fear like you'd fear a loose cannon on deck during a hurricane.

Read the entire column at:
http://www.toledofreepress.com/?id=4987

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

I really understand where Miller is coming from - My posts are identified, always. And hey Mike, it's spelled Steven. But it's the thought that counts.

There is actually a lot to be said for anonymity in my opinion. I feel that some people are truly wacky, and could come after you if you use your real name. I'm not scared. It's just that it makes a person wonder if it's even worth it to post any type of thought or ideas on the internet? Then there are those who threaten to sue everyone whose comments they don't like. Is it even worth it? To have some clown suing you because you disagree with them on the internet? It's really much easier to just leave this stupid internet and stay home and do your own thing and forget about it. What's next? Putting down your address and phone number after every comment? There are actually some damned good reasons for being anonymous. What if you have no great achievements to distinguish yourself? Does that mean your opinion is worth any less? There are some people I don't want to invite into my personal space, and my personal business, and my life, period. I am not a very trusting type of person. The internet is filled with electronic piss-ants and that is the very reason it's much better to be relatively anonymous. Turning off the computer is another option. Who the hell ever said we humans have to be connected all the time? Go to the park, and go for a walk, or get a kite and go fly the damn thing. I like using the internet, yet I would no more trust some of the people here than I would trust Charles Manson!

The grounds for a lawsuit resulting from something posted on the internet is extremly unusual. Even if you write something unflattering if it is your opinion, that's pretty much free speech. If you want to be totally logical, if you really slandered or libeled somone on a blog even as an anonymous, your IP address is tracked since the majority of you do not use an anonymizer program. Even those depending on the choice are not foolproof.

I understand why Michael wrote this editorial and I have mixed emotions on anonymous commenting. I allow it on my blog, people are not required to sign up or wait to have their comments moderated because I do understand some of you don't want to be identified. Yet, it is important to realize that an undentified person for many of us automatically has less credibility because we don't know if you are the same commenter below who raved about how smart you were. Unless we are the forum/blog operator...

I have to balance on my blog my desire to provide a place where people can comment as easily and as protected as possible knowing the few who have reasons to not be named, yet make sure it's not abused. Thankfully I have never had to ban or edit anyone (except spammers) and there have been times when that has been a difficult decision.

We don't remember days only moments...

What do we tell our children about divulging any personal info on the internet? Including their name.

I post anonymously with validated and documented complaints and photo's; does my posting invalidate what I do because I do not identify myself?

Is a person entitled to privacy? Is a person entitled to speak out and not be named, Deepthroat from the Watergate era, and so on.

People in certain countries are jailed and tortured for speaking out, Eypgt for one and that country also receives millions and millions of dollars in aid and yet a blogger was just jailed.

I also use a ssh tunnel service to encrypt my isp connections, why?, because I can and I want my privacy.

Mr. Miller makes some valid points but maybe he could not dismiss all out of hand and judge each person who posts with a little more research and then condemn or validate.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

:-) Cowardly, useless warts on the ass of the blogosphere.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

I was thinking that too, what Mr. Miller was referring too, those that enter a dialog for no other good reason other than to provoke and offer nothing.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

I think that more and more there's a growing grey area for those who wish to blog, and for those that think their blog is journalism. Michael Miller is a "journalist", but since he blogs he should do it in the light of day in order to remain credible. So when he says

When I have something to say, on this page or while posting on a blog site, I use my name. Whether I am criticizing the mayor, applauding someone's effort or working through the aftermath of a personal life change, I stand in the open, for whatever roses or rotten tomatoes are tossed my way.

That's accountability. That's why newspapers generally eschew unnamed sources, and why no newspaper with an understanding of ethics and responsibility publishes anonymous commentary. Show me one that does, and I'll show you a reckless publication you should fear like you'd fear a loose cannon on deck during a hurricane.

I think he's confusing those who wish to have their comments taken seriously in a "journalistic" sense, and those who wish to rant and debate anonymously. Trolls are exposed as trolls by their actions, and no one takes them seriously anyway. If he's talking about trolls, then he's wasting his time because they'll always exist. If he thinks that in order to criticize, people must identify themselves...then he's just fucking wrong.

Pink Slip

If you want commentary on trollish behavior - post it on the net and sit back.

You'll f**ing get it....eh slip?

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Jr's take on the column:
http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/comments.pl/27/3562

I don't mind users posting under anonymous names. If you look at the user directory you will see most of the screen names are anonymous. I don't care to know who you are and I don't go looking for you.

I am going to be pretty liberal with postings and users. I also don't mind media/blog people/personalities highlighting their stories or work. I will not allow spam postings and most business advertisements and will edit profane language if I decide to. But this is the Wild Wild West and this is the latest frontier and it was usually the newer cities that were more lawless than the more established ones..so enjoy.

I DO think you lose credibility if you don't post under your real name or specify who you are. People have the right to question who you are and your intentions if you do not identify yourself. I do post under the admin account so people don't accuse me of trying to take over the site, but when I make allegations I will be doing it under my own name (e.g. the board member parking issue).

The Internet has matured to a point where I think there is a good cross section of society on it. Early on, there were many extremes, but I don't think this is the case anymore. I think threads can represent what a community thinks and I think this will only increase in the future as even more people make online destinations a part of their daily routine.

As long as the full spectrum of users in a society is represented here, we will be OK. Now if I can only get Anonymous Coward or limedrop911 to start posting here or maybe they already are...........

I would just cringe if anyone ever found out who I am. That is why I have created this special user name. I like my anonymity, thank you very much.
Sh-h-h-h. If you figure out who I am, please don't let anyone else know.

Roland's Ramblings
http://www.theglitch.ws/roland/

What does Michael Miller think of the Kevin "Sparky" Milliken incident that JR exposed on Toledo Talk?

Examples:

March 6, 2006 - "Of course, NBC-24 broke some exclusive details about the project. Kevin Milliken also reported Skippy is going to use millions of our taxpayer dollars to finance the arena like Ray Kest did with 5/3 Field."

June 9, 2006 - "Carty was supposed to be a guest on WSPD's Eye on Toledo last night. However, Brian Wilson said he pulled the plug on an in-studio interview with Kevin Milliken, the show's host, until the mayor issues a public apology to Fred, the station, and its advertisers."

June 27, 2006 - "One of WSPD's talk show hosts got charged $1500...and they've been talking about it for a couple of weeks."

July 5, 2006 - "Lemmon writes this toilet paper tirade against WSPD for bashing Carty. BTW, check out Eye on Toledo @ 6 pm-- Milliken seems to give WSPD some two-sided issues, stays local and has some journalism behind him."

July 13, 2006 - "Kevin Milliken has been hammering away at the flooding for two nights now on WSPD...had some info about the Toledo Waterways Initiative and a lawsuit that took more than a decade to settle."

Does he think Milliken is a "piss-ant" for using his anonymity to shamelessly promote himself and the media outlets he worked for? Also, does Michael Miller think that NBC-24 & WSPD are "reckless publications" for using and promoting the work of a anonymous poster?? It was also pointed out that Milliken writes a weekly for the Free Press. What of this connection? Does Milliken still post under a pseudonym, promoting himself and the same paper that Mr Miller works for? I think these are important questions that Michael Miller should answer.

Pink Slip

I think all of this calls for us to reexamine our journalistic laws and ethics rules.

Bloggers to some extent should share the same rights as other journalists but the country should diminish the rights when it comes to journalistic commentary. This not only means bloggers but journalists such as O'Reilly and Grace would see diminished rights as well.

Furthermore journalistic ethics should be reexamined. Journalists are only held accountable for what they write but not for what they don't write. Key pieces of information could be left out and the journalist at hand would recieve nothing more than a slap on the wrist if that at all. Things such as the policy articles for money scandal and the Tailwind scandal would be less apt to occur.

Imagine if that were the case in other occupations. A lawyer tells you to fight your case without correctly telling you the ramifications that could come if you are not found in favor of? That lawyer would be either disbarred or some other severe reprimand. Why should journalists and bloggers receive a different standard?

MikeyA

MikeyA

That's why Mikey. IF a site positions itself as a news site - I agree with you. If it positions itself as a place to post current events and offer commentary on such - that is a different story.

One is commenting on the news and the other is supposed to be reporting the news. The difference is opinion vs. fact.

And that is why there is a different level of conduct for opinion pieces in a newspaper than there is for news reporting.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

February 15, 2007
Media Giant Bullies Internet Critic

Discovery Communications Tries to Chill Speech with Baseless Legal Claims

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2007_02.php#005126

http://www.eff.org

It more it is hard to prove your case and win, but suing is really easy, anyone can do it.

http://toledoohioneighborhoodconcerns.com/blog

I don't think you are the type of poster that Michael was referring to. You are one of the ones I was referring too when I said I realize there are people who feel they must be anonymous. Sides, you do put a name with all of your posts.

The anonymizer has no bearing except to point out to the poster I was responding to - cmantyla45 - that she or he isn't as anonymous as they think they are...

We don't remember days only moments...

It's not the same thing. We tell our children not to talk to strangers in person, too, and yet we adults deal with "strangers" every day, at the grocery store, gas station, our jobs (depending on what we do for a living), etc.

My feeling is that if you're going to post something and you expect to be taken seriously, you go into it with the same attitude you'd have if you were writing a letter to the editor of your local paper. Since most newspapers don't accept anonymous letters, anyone who reads what you wrote will know your name.

If someone isn't comfortable with that, they probably shouldn't be posting.

I agree the actual "suing" is done but when it comes to the actual case it's another. Recently a conservative blogger by the name of Scott Pullins had filed a lawsuit against an anonymous commenter on a forum. He's an attorney...he dropped the case a few days ago...

We don't remember days only moments...

if you were writing a letter to the editor of your local paper. Since most newspapers don't accept anonymous letters

I wrote a letter to the editor of the Blade once and it was published, on a Sunday I think. Later that day I was flooded with phone calls by people who'd looked up my phone number and address.
Luckily they were all nice calls but they could have just as easily been bad and worse if they had my phone number they also had my address so I could have gotten unwelcome visitors.
Considering that my letter was about in regards to a police officer shooting a guy in a flea bag motel and the guys family was playing the race card and calling the police officer a killer because the gun the guy was waving around at the police wasn't working amd that I came out on the side of the police it could have easily gone badly for me had one of the guys friends had decided to pay me a visit.

I've had an unlisted, unpublished number since then.

I think the Blade and other papers should rethink that whole posting of peoples street & names (if they still are I don't get the paper). Considering how some subjects can inflame people I think its a dangerous practice.

It appears to me that some folks here on SwampBubbles have not been following court rulings concerning defamation of character (slander when spoken; liable when written) in regards to the internet. A few of the people who post here on SwampBubbles have established that they do indeed make defamatory comments that are in fact untrue and are not simple expressions of opinion, like when MikeyA has used the words "Anal-Rapist" and "narcoleptic molester" in his reference to me which seem a bit more serious than when he calls me "a whiny little bitch" or writes this about me: "his life of huge debt, fat wife, erectile dysfunction, etc" in his description of me.
I certainly hope that the SwampBubbles administrator does not condone such defamatory comments.

You might also look up the term "public figure".....which is what you became when you started a blog in your name....and started a very public war with a local radio host...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

So I suppose calling Rollie an Art Bell-wannabe- complete with tinfoil hat, is right out then?

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

Technically, I can say he's a public figure because he's run for several offices to include Toledo board of ed, Toledo city coucil District 6, and the State board of ed. So as a candidate I can make fun of him using any language I want just as I also could do with Ed Emery and Opal Covey.

He chose to put himself into the public domain not me.

Thank God he didn't win any of those. If he's whining about Facebook discussions and Swampbubbles posts could you imagine what would happen when the Free Press or Dispatch printed something he didn't like?

You shouldn't be surprized that he's a whiney little bitch Z. He's been a union leader for many years. I believe Anal rapist and narcoleptic molester are both in the thesaurus for union leader as they all do the same thing.

MikeyA

Roland, good luck bringing a lawsuit against me.

A libel/slander/defamation suit needs several things to go forward. The first is malice. Now I can show in the thread that had you stopped posting and gone away you would not have received the comments I wrote.

Additionally I used this sentence " He talks a lot of smack online but he's just doing it to escape his life of huge debt, fat wife, erectile dysfunction, etc whatever it is." notice the wording. At no point did I describe your life of all of them. I merely stated there's something in your life that leaves you unfulfilled and thus you come online to fill it and at no point did I say I knew what it was but I gave examples as what it could be.

So good luck proving malice.

The second thing you need is damage. So what damage have I done to you with my words? Did you lose out on a business contract? Did you get fired? Did winged monkeys come and rape your mouth in the night? No. Well it turns out you're going to have an awfully hard time proving damage as well. Go on with your lawsuit though because I would LOVE to use the free, excellent, attorney's at my disposal on a harassment countersuit.

Secondly, go ahead and complain to Chris. I think he's more concerned about trolls who come into his threads and post comments with little meaning like "yawn" and "ooooo" that use up the space and time where people can put quality posts.

I'm sorry I'd think a former UT professor would be smarter. But there I go assuming, burns you every time.

Quit being a whiney little bitch. Go back to facebook and leave swampbubbles where people discuss real issues not that Fred was mean to them in another website.

MikeyA

Waa-a-a-a-a-a-a. Hey, Mike, did you see that you got censored? Hmmm, I wonder why. And, you sure show your ignorance when you make statements that are indeed not factual, e.g. I never ran for (as you wrote) "Toledo board of ed" Why di you lie about that? Or were you just plain mistaken out of ignorance? BTW, having sought or held public elective office in the past and not currently seeking or holding elective office, does not make a person a public figure in the present; nor does having a blog constitute being a public figure. DUH!!!!

A lot of people make noises online about testing things in court. Then they don't file.

You strike me as the sort of person who won't file. So noise is probably the extent of your power.

If that makes you feel better, then fine. Keep making noise.

BANG!!!!!

"You strike me as the sort of person who won't file. So noise is probably the extent of your power.

If that makes you feel better, then fine. Keep making noise."

GZ was right. I have yet to be served with any lawsuit for my "lies".

Roland and wolfman are two on here who like to talk a good game. Hell one I even gave the number to his local prosecutor. Just goes to show you their knowledge of the law and the internet is woefully inadequate for what they say.

MikeyA

Once again, Mike who eats at the Y of the A demonstrates that he along with the other Daffy Ducks are the most blissful of all persons on the internet. Their Nazi-like attacks remind me of how Hitler rose to power, of Hitler's use of intimidation, prejudice, discrimination, hatred, silencing of all opposing views, etc,. and of why there really are not that many people who bother to post on SwampBubbles. Mike and the Daffy Ducks just keep cheer-leading one another on, congratulating each other of how narrow-mindedness rules SwampBubbles, chasing away all who dare disagree by using personal attacks with vile name-calling, all-the-while placing what could have been a good forum of discussion onto the very bottom of a garbage heap. What a bunch of anonymous cyberbullies! I see the KKK mindset in their writings.

And Roland invokes Godwin's law!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Notice how he says we chase people away with name calling yet says we use Nazi tactics, Hitler's use of intimidation, and a KKK mindset.

Yet, no where can he cite where I used any aforementioned tactics nor can he effectively compare my mindset of logic and rational thinking to the racism of the Ku Klux Klan.

In fact, if my interactions with Farmergal are any indication it's that I will challenge narrowmindedness on both sides of the political aisle even if their position is from the same ideological side.

On the flip side. He has accused me of breaking the law and despite my continued support for him to stand up for his rights I have yet to receive any court summons or cease and desist letter. Apparently his threats are as thin as his arguments.

MikeyA

Blah, blah, blah. Yawn.

You keep saying this but you can't back it up.

Will the prosecutor be serving me soon? I just want to know so I can start shopping for a frame for the summons.

MikeyA

Ho-hum.

I love Roland. He comes here looking for the attention he doesn't get on his own site, except from his wife, and when he gets the attention he "ho hums" it but continues to post. It's a strange little dance he does with himself. It must be sad to be pushed away by a group you gave so much too who then found out they no longer needed your "expertise". Luckily the intenest came along and gave you a purpose. Please give me more than a ho hum. It would make my day.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

You're right Fred.

Notice he keeps his posts coming on a thread started in 2007.

MikeyA

Hey Mike, Can you not read? Do you not follow a message thread from its beginning to its conclusion. Are you not capable of a conversation that is continuous. It does appear that you prefer your blitzkrieg style of posting messages, hitting low on one message thread and then beginning another without finishing the other. ADHD, perhaps?

This entire thread began with a heading that reads, in part,
".... TAKES ON ANONYMOUS POSTERS (YES YOU)"
and you are an anonymous poster. Mike the Unknown.

It appears that you failed to read the message I wrote above dated MON, 2012-01-02 13:59 entitled "Boo-hoo" that started out with,
"Waa-a-a-a-a-a-a. Hey, Mike, did you see that you got censored? ..."

And that posted message of mine was a follow-up to the previous message of mine "Libelous Comments Abound On SwampBubbles" dated THU, 2011-10-27 20:47 in which I wrote, in part,
"... A few of the people who post here on SwampBubbles have established that they do indeed make defamatory comments that are in fact untrue and are not simple expressions of opinion, like when MikeyA has used the words "Anal-Rapist" and "narcoleptic molester" in his reference to me which seem a bit more serious than when he calls me "a whiny little bitch" or writes this about me: "his life of huge debt, fat wife, erectile dysfunction, etc" in his description of me...."

So, Mike, the bottom line is that you have failed elementary reading and comprehension. You must go back to START.

What a failure! And -- What a miserable loser you are!

loser and failure eh? I'm glad your not a name calling nazi with a KKK mindset!

Again, I will encourage you to exercise your rights if you feel you've been defamed. Would you like the name and number to the prosecutor's office? I can help.

MikeyA

Well, Mike, I will let you explain to everyone here in The Swamp the reasoning behind the fact that the administrator of SwampBubbles actually edited two of your personal attacks on me and added the phrase "[admin edit - comment is out of bounds]"

It's simple.

Because the site owner actually owns the content to include whatever I post. We do not have free speech on here. Out speech is allowed as long as the site editor allows it.

So either out of personal courtesy or professional discretion the site owner has choosen that the language I used on this site was not within the standards they want on the site.

It does not mean what was posted was defamation as you have claimed. I could go into detail as to why it is not defamation but I would MUCH rather you serve me with charges and my lawyer describe it to you and your lawyer.

BTW the proof I have it's not defamation is the Supreme Court has rejected Prior Restraint, meaning it's not defamation until it's deemed defamation by a court. Until that time I am afforded full rights of due process.

MikeyA

Hey Fred, I see you frequently bring up the subject of my wife. For whatever reason you do so is beyond me. Speaking of wives, Fred, how is it going between you and your wife?

ref:
http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/DocketDR.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=DR2...

Damn Fred no better than the Rushbo! I think that job has affected you personally. I've noticed you've become a more coarse intolerant soul since joining Speedy. Being surrounded and promoting all that negativity will affect anyone.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

As you can see Roland, unless you failed to read all the way to the end, there is a continuance granted. I hope I won't need to explain that to you.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Fred that type of KKK mindset of explaining things is not welcomed here.

Also read until the end? What type of nazi-like tactics are those! Who are you to mandate he do something like read and comprehend?

MikeyA

Trying to figure out what is interesting about this public record for you roland. I have not taken any pot shots at your wife, only pointed out that on your blog site you quite often refer to her comments as in this recent entry " My wife, Judy, also has two blogs, Judy's Jewels and Judy Hansen Commentary. At times, in one or both of my blogs, I may link to entries on one or the other or both of Judy's blogs. And, then there are times that I may make a combination of linkages within and between my blogs and Judy's blogs."
I haven't posted any public records for either of you and fail to see how posting mine is of any interest to anyone, but maybe I'm wrong.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Fred you know you're not clean here. You in the past have initiated the vindictive personal attacks yourself. Recently I had to contact Shutterfly to have one of my personal pics that you had posted on a blog site and taken as your own removed from your account. I made referencing to this is a another thread but didn't reveal the particulars and do not intend to here. So before you try and take the high road remember what you do could be construed unethical a least and criminal at most.

Roland just curious how did you come to know about Fred's divorce court filing?

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

It's public record Paul. The use of the pic, which is from the internet, could be considered fair usage since it was posted on the internet a very public site.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

So Roland has every right to post your personal problems on the internet. Sad that we live in a world like this but with your public persona and the fact you are an agent of Clear Channel reflecting their public image you'd think caution would be in order.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

No Paul there is a difference.

You posted the pic yourself into a public forum. In the other case Roland posted the link, no Fred.

Now if I took a picture of you or say posted your address or phone number online then that would be the same as what Roland did. If you take a pic off Fred's show's website and use it then that would be akin to what Fred did.

MikeyA

Or even better. I could post satelite images and the public blueprints for homes just off 23. Because that too is public record. Would that be crossing a line?

MikeyA

Excellent example. For instance the pic of me in my fur coat with long hair, I posted it first so now it's fair game, and you have used it Paul. I didn't post about my personal problem nor discussed them on air because they are in fact personal. Roland has posted numerous times about his wife's blog site on his own blog, I included an example in the last post. Two very different levels here Paul. But you'll notice I'm not calling for Roland to be removed, or censored by the administrator. The public record also reflects other people besides myself who might not wish our business to be public, Roland didn't take that into consideration though. A public record in a drawer at the courthouse is very different from a public record posted on a blog site I'm sorry for you if you can't see the difference, and I hope that your public records don't show up here someday when you don't want them to.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Comment edited at user request.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Paul, why do you insist on reposting a divorce filing? I can answer your question easily enough. A high school educated talk show host working 6-9 each day should be paid whatever the private company which hires him is willing to pay, along with health care benefits and pension plans. None of those of course are paid for by the public directly so it is between the talk show host and the company.
The others mentioned in your list who include PUBLIC sector union employees should be paid whatever the municipality can afford to pay them without having to raise taxes on citizens to a level that causes them to move away thereby leaving fewer and fewer citizens to carry the weight of the budget on their backs.
Hope this helps. Maybe someone else can throw in their two cents.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

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