I demand a re-vote on Issue 5 - Discrepancy in Votes. I'm not surprised at all by what this person found. She's waiting for a reply from her letter asking for an explanation. She has only searched two counties in Ohio so far - but if the results are even remotely similar to these countys, then it remains to be seen whether the "voters have spoken' about the state wide smoking ban in Ohio. Add to this, faulty voting machines........ I say we need a re-vote.
After examining the results of this election, I wrote the following message to Jennifer Brunner, the secretary of state of Ohio:
== start of letter ==
I noticed what should be an impossible discrepancy in results for election 2006. According to the statistics on this site, Henry County recorded 11,473 total votes cast while Miami County had 37,390 total votes cast. It is reported that Henry County's results on Issue 5 were 6,146 yes and 5,450 no, totaling 11,596 votes cast on that issue, which is larger by 123 votes than the total number of votes reported from that county. The same thing is reported for Miami County, in which 37,590 are reported for that issue, making a discrepancy of 200 more voters voting on that issue than voted total in that county. How can a discrepancy like this occur?
== end of letter ==
I was looking at statistics of the total turnout for this election county-by-county, as well as the county-by-county results for issue 5. For example, a total of 385,863 votes are reported to have been cast for Franklin County. 238,801 YES votes and 133,247 NO votes were cast on issue 5, totaling 372,048 votes on that issue, meaning that 13,815 of those who voted abstained from voting on issue 5 (i.e. they skipped that issue). This computes just fine for this county, but when I examined the results for Henry and Miami counties, I found this:
Henry 6,146 YES + 5,450 NO = 11,596 total on 5, out of 11,473 total votes cast (a discrepancy of 123)
Miami 22,104 YES + 15,486 NO = 37,590 total on 5, out of 37,390 total votes cast (a discrepancy of 200)
There are 323 extra votes reported for these two counties! I'll keep all of you posted on my reply.
Re-Vote denied.
While they're at it, how about a recount on Bush? Oh right... I forgot... DIEBOLD.
two fellows who can't be bothered by any pesky facts. Nicely done.
READY.............FIRE....................MOUTH OFF!!!!!!!
If her math adds up - then does then are you a part of the problem? (nodding vigorously here- yes, why YES, yes you are).
I am very interested in hearing any possible explanation for more votes being reported than registered voters.
Where I come from it's called vote rigging. And it merits a serious response.
Yeah, well that's what I was saying.
You can lose alot without the human interaction - but from this vantage point it seemed you were making a joke out of this. Not that alot of our voting rights aren't becoming jokes - but I intend to go kicking and screaming till the bitter end :-)
You are going to have to acquire a sense of humor at some point... less you become one of those nutjobs that go postal. Trust me on this one.
According to the results posted below from the SOS site at http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/ElectionsVoter/results2006.aspx?Section=1857, it appears that only Henry and Miami county have descrepencies. Does this warrent a State Wide recount or just a recount in those counties?
While i oppose the ban I trust the results.
I'll run through those numbers in the morning. Thank you for actually caring about facts. Nice change in pace over what I'm seeing lately.
Diabold seems to have a history of 'malfunctions' & questionable voting results. I seem to recall something in the news a couple of months after the smoking ban passed, about how they tested Diabold voting machines & many were found to be faulty & easily rigged. And yes, that could also reflect the results for Bush. I just read a review on a new book by John Grisholm "The Appeal" (yes, I know, it's fiction - however the author is a lawyer who's books usually have a lot of meat on the bones facts). It's about election tampering & is supposed to be an eye opener (this stuff really does happen) about a firm that specializes in election rigging. Supposed to be facinating stuff. Sounds like true to life, to me. And el mahico - why NOT a re-vote? Put it back on the ballot & let the people vote. Only problem would be those damned voting machines or the people who rig elections. There was just entirely too much money connected to the ACS & Big Pharma connected to Issue 5 - it was not their place to finance smoking bans. (especially with cancer cure money people had donated in good faith). Now the ACS is called to task with the IRS (it is a non-profit & had to form a sister corp. to save it's non-profit ass) - it's top executives make million dollar salaries & yearly bonuses . If there is even a hint of vote rigging or fraud, there should be a re-vote. Seems nothing is sacred in this country anymore. If our votes don't matter in small state issues, then they sure as hell won't matter in national issues.
no sh*t
Henry County and Miami County had overvotes that were distributed differently. Miami Co. had two precincts with abnormally high overvote totals, precinct ABT with 146 overvotes on issue 5 and precinct ACT with 147 overvotes. Henry Co. had their overvotes evenly distributed so that nearly all precincts had overvotes, but they ranged from 2 to 13 overvotes per precinct.
Either way, the total number of overvotes on Issue 5 were 1447 throughout the entire state and they occured in 243 out of 11789 precincts. The overvotes equal roughly .06% of the total votes, meaning the overvote is well within the acceptable error rate. It's strange, but not enough to overcome a deficit of several hundreds of thousands of votes.
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"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles
Bukowski
Maybe after this thing passes twice, and it would, some people might get the message.
you smug, rabid smoker-hating,holier-than-thou arrogant bastard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.
You know what? No matter what side of this debate you are on NOBODY wants to hear that kinda talk. What's your damage? Maybe you didn't get enough love from your mother growing up or was raised by wolves, but most adults can get through everyday conversation without the graphic use of teenage-boy-talk like the above
GROW UP.
It will help you, Mr. Darkseid.
I voted for the ban last time, and upon further review, I would vote against it now. As much as I enjoy being able to go out and not have to breath in anyone else's smoke, I would not take that right away from them again. Maybe I am just getting more nostalgic for the 'way things used to be' as I age, but I see this as just adding to the slippery slope of freedoms we can all kiss goodbye. I don't know how many people feel the way I do, and maybe it isn't enough to change it, but I just know that I regret voting for the ban, and wouldn't be against some kind of amendment to it.
Yup, there's a discrepancy in the numbers. However, I'm now watching the fat initiative. It seemed to me that if this test flew, the smoking initiative, the next target would have to be obesity.
Now I'm torn. I kind of want to see what happens next :-) I remember seeing the photos of a couple of the pac people from smokefreeohio etc. and they were pretty big :-)
I think it's going to be alot easier to refrain from smoking in public than being overweight :-)
Disclaimer.....I QUIT smoking months ago. So, nobody can say that I just want to be able to smoke in public. I just want people to be able to make their own choices. But many want the government to make those choices.
And so it began....RUN BIG PEOPLE.......RUN.......you are next.
Even if there were only a couple of dozen 'extra' votes - it still reeks of being rigged. And, it makes me wonder how many other ways votes can be rigged, voting machines tampered with, etc. (I"m sure there are many).. There was just too much big money, Big Pharma, big "non-profits" that paid to get this smoking ban passed - to make me not question how it got passed. Although, I think the antis banked on that people were complacent & just never thought it'd pass - would explain the poor voter turn-out. I say, we put it on the ballot again. I think the anti's would be surprised. IF it passed a second time - I'll shut up about it. But katie is right - it will be easier to not smoke in public than to be guilty of being big in public. Will be interesting to see how other groups like being treated like second class citizens.
ONE vote more than the registered voter base and you've got a bad vote. No arguing that point. And we are past that point here.
The question is what to do about it now that the numbers have turned up such that they have?
Do we hold out to see the next exercise in government control? Obese people? :-)
As I said, it's going to be a whole lot easier to not be out smoking in public than it is to not be out being obese in public.
I imagine, in every dang election...Forever...Particularly re: issues around provisional and absentee voting...The more important question is, what is the error size in regard to the election results, and do they merit a small sample recount, full recount, or certification of the election results. I would say that .06% (thx handbanana) is not significant enough to warrant that. I you think so, do we re-do every election in the books?
Interesting scientist take on voting irregularities:
Election officials have had no practical way to guarantee a correct ballot count—until now
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20080119/mathtrek.asp
As for vote rigging, there was just as much incentive by Big Tobacco, bar/restaurant associations, and other groups against the legislation that perhaps they rigged the election, albeit very poorly...I don't know what evidence there is otherwise? There IS no evidence of vote tampering, rigging, or fraud from that election.
And I don't know why you say that ACS has no right trying to pass the legislation - it's on their mission statement that one of their core initiatives is to act as a policy advocate. They don't hide it. As a matter of fact, a recent book came out that states the only way to make a significant social impact is to both work directly in the field and engage in affecting public policy.
wombat - I never said that the ACS had no right to promote the smoking ban. I SAID, it was unethical that the ACS used cancer cure donation monies to finance the promotion (and it is under investigation by the courts, IRS, etc.). I know that when I mailed off my donation check to my neighbor who was collecting for cancer cures, I expected it to go for research to find a cure for cancer. NOT to promote a smoking ban or dabble in the politics of it. They will never get another dime from me again. The ACS is supposed to be a non-profit - and YET, they had to form a sister company to retain their non-profit status because of how they played the game with the smoking ban. And YET - the ACS is wealthy beyond belief - it pays it's top execs multi million dollar salaries & yearly bonuses. Hardly sounds like a non-profit to me.
If any side had the funds & means to tamper with the votes on Issue 5, it'd be those who were promoting it's passing - they are the ones with the big money, they are HUGE. The little business owners didn't stand a chance in hell. I do agree that there was very poor voter turn-out, which helped to pass it. I am still angry at voters for indiffrerence or just presuming it 'would never pass' (which most non-voters did seem to assume & were lazy about voting.) I've talked to a lot of people who did vote for the ban who now, in retrospect, say they'd vote differently. So yes, a re-vote could easily have different results. And by voting against a smoking ban the second time around, and having the ban fail the second time around - it'd be fuel to stop future bans. That smoking ban just opened the doors for more bans to come - and people won't care until one of them affects them. Scott fired employees who smoked, even in the privacy of their own home - because they said it'd save insurance premium money if no employees smoked. But obese & overweight people costs about as much - or more, than smokers do in medical expenses (diseases, cancers, heart problems, diabetes, etc.). I posted the figures here a while back on that that put the numbers up & it did show that to be true. So what will happen when Scott (or any company, because a lot of companies are jumping on Scott's bandwagon now) decides to use that same logic on overweight employees? You will hear bitching & screaming & shouts of 'it's unconstitutional' across the country. And yet, it can & will happen, unless the masses stand up & say they won't stand for it anymore. Until the people get fed up with too much govt. in their private lives & open their eyes to see where it's heading.
"acceptable voter error rate"???? I'd say there should be no voter error rate. Of course there always has been, but it doesn't make it right. In the Issue 5 results, when there are more votes than people who voted - that is clearly vote tampering - it is NOT an error. And it's easy (I've read) to mess with the voting machines - a simple magnet will do it.
Please. When you smokers Vote NO on all the school levy's, ill vote for a revote.
Until then, can we have a peeing area in the city pools? Im sure the piss will not get into the no-peeing areas!
ArealAmerican - I always voted for school levies - until the ACS prostituted children to pass the smoking ban, and began the 'chain-smoke' of "it's for the children" for every damned thing now . Now, I won't EVER vote for another school levi. I feel as a smoker, I am paying far more for other people's children than non-smokers due to tobacco taxes. I've 'given'. A lot of people against the smoking ban feel the same way - most, I imagine. It is my guess, that unless these smoking bans are overturned, and soon - it's only a matter of time before the nannies go after most every aspect of people's private lives. Food, guns, weight, alcohol, vaccines, child bearing privalages, wood burning fireplaces, outdoor grills, swimming pool chemicals, cosmetics, hair dye, lawn products, reading materials, videos, tv programming, movie content, music, light bulbs, heating & cooling limitations in private homes, cell phones..... the list is endless. And before anybody assumes I am being paranoid - many of those things I mentioned already have known, Class A human carcinagens - just waiting for the zealots to remove from human consumption. Many are already on the table to be restricted or banned. Turning over the smoking ban can effectively put up road-blocks to future bans. As it is now, the barn door is wide open - they think they can control a lot of those things now.