Before my postcard informing me of the change. I discovered that next week my neighborhood is being forced to participate in a pilot program. Automated trash pickup. Which also includes recycling. Two cans arrive next week. They even sign you up to recycle without your concent. All you can stuff in one can for the duration of the program. If you have extras the commissioner said just hit up your neighbors and use their extra space if the have any. We still maintain " unlimited service " if we jump thru their new hoops and schedule additional service. As long as they have slotted space to fit their schedule. When the program is done then our city leaders will decide if it works for them. If the see a cost savings they plan to implement automated service city wide in 2009. The pilot participants are going to be surveyed for their input. But the goal here is to save money on labor and trucks. Not to deliver improved service. Or to even maintain the current service.
Why cant they leave well enough alone. And why has their been no media coverage of this ? This proposed change was in the mayors budget plans for this year and if i had not attended a meeting last night I would not have know about it at all.
Those attending last nights meeting were very upset at the changes. And we were assured that this was not a done deal. But we were also told her words we were left without a choice if we didnt wish to participate in the pilot program. and that buring our trash ment we risked federal EPA fines. Said in jest...... still pissed off many in this small group. Can't wait to see how the whole city reacts to the change.
So dont go buying any new trash cans because you may not be able to use them for long.
There was coverage of it.
Several weeks ago we had a discussion even here on Swampbubbles about the automated plan after a story ran in the Blade about it. I'm pretty sure it was on the TV but I wouldn't swear to it.
I'm not thrilled by the idea of having to cart that big ol bin out and I'd still like to know where they would expect me to put the damn thing in the winter when my curb area is two feet deep of snow.
My driveway approach isn't wide enough for me to place it there AND get in and out of my drive and I'm not even thinking about having to jump in and out of my car to move it around every week at five AM when I'm trying to leave for work.
Wow- almost all I hear is people bitching about unlimited pick up being too expensive and the city should be looking to be more efficient and use fewer employees to pick up the trash.
Now they go and see if they can do it and people are still complaining. Why should the mayor and city council try and make things better or do things differently. 30% bitch about the status quo, 30% bitch about changing the status quo and 40% bitch no matter what.
"But the goal here is to save money on labor and trucks. Not to deliver improved service. Or to even maintain the current service."
Angrysage, you might want to read a few more newspapers and blogs. We're entering a Depression. Saving money after our outrageous 1920s-esque era of obscene and orgiastic excess, is REQUIRED. If it results in lower levels of service, just recall that people in the 1930s were just left to fend for themselves. Be glad then you have any government service at all, since you certainly sound like a person who expects the government to give you such services.
As for the EPA threat ... in a Depression, there's going to be nearly ZERO enforcement. So, you'll be free to burn all the trash you wish.
The off-grid movement is coming. Join in, why doncha?
...tonight. As with most such meetings those who question or are opposed to any change were those who showed up. The presenter (I arrived a minute or so late so I never got her name) let her presentation get away from her a little. She began to get questions (and tried to answer them) before she could complete her presentation. I found out that I am beyond the "pilot" area (I am on the north side of South Avenue, and the "pilot" area nearest me ends at Prouty, which parallels South Avenue but is south of it). I hadn't heard until the meeting, but according to some of the participants the garbage collectors had quite a few cases of "blue flu" today. Personally, I don't think I will have any problem with the cans. At present I think we are limited to 3 x 32 gallon cans. This will be replaced with one 96 gallon can (during the "pilot" program) for garbage (grey in color), and one 96 gallon container (blue) for recycling. We will go from two "streams" of recycling to one: everything that is recyclable can go into the blue container, and it will be sorted at the county facility that was purchased from a private company named "Toledo Recycling", I think. Since I own a duplex I can have a total of four cans (two grey for garbage, and two blue for recycling) so I will probably be allowing my neighbors to use my excess capacity if they need it. Better than having garbage on the street. The presenter stated that it would be possible to call the department if there was garbage in excess of what was picked up.
I asked if the city had looked at "private enterprise" such as "Waste Management" to contract for pickup. This "pilot" program is supposed to run 60 days, and then a determination is to be made a short time after that. I would assume that if the executive branch (the Mayjor) were to make the decision it would be short and decisive. Since the Council will also be involved then I assume it will be several months of pontificating before a final decision is made. "Private enterprise" is also being looked into. Offers are going to be made to see what "private enterprise" would charge for similar services, and it is possible that we may have private enterprise doing the work. The presenter pointed out that the city cannot be held hostage to the passions of employees who aren't willing to accept changes in the work structure.
She pointed out that the equipment in many cases is 15-20 years old. Today 4 of the 6 trucks used for recycling were "down" because of various problems. Some areas of the city may not be able to "accept" the automated collectors. There is supposed to be three feet of space between cars so the arms can reach the cans between vehicles. She said is some cases (especially in this area around Broadway and South) the streets may too narrow or crowded to accomodate these vehicles, and "semi-automated" vehicles with two collectors feeding a "boom" that works from the rear may be necessary. She says she and other managers are under no illusions. There will be accidents (just as sometimes happens now). Trucks will hit parked cars, the cranes will cause accidents, and there will be "roll-aways" among the new trashcans. The "pilot" program is to test that. That is why some of the older parts of town with narrow streets are being tried. She also said that the City Law Office will work with citizens who suffer losses from this program, and probably work with the insurance companies of those damaged to reimburse them, taking in account any deductibles.
... what Czarty will say when the 60-day eval period is up.
You see, inside the malformed brain of our nutty mayor, there is a strong and irrational desire to be taken seriously in all matters, as well as the desire to have everything that larger cities have.
That means that inside the Czarty Brain, those new, sexy, hip, mod, def, trendy bins produce an IRRESISTIBLE reaction that causes the mayor's salivary glands to start producing. As the mayor's mouth fills with saliva, the mayor will naturally seek out yummy food to consume. As a result of that, the mayor will feel extremely sated.
Hence, Czarty will conclude that these bins are good and the entire program should be adopted, since his level of satiation will be extraordinary.
Seriously now, if the change introduces some 21st Century appearance for Toledo, Czarty will be all for it.
She also brought up that they are getting reports that the new trashcans are already being stolen on the East Side. I guess the "recyclers" will be getting plastic as well as copper now.
attending and reporting on it Birdy
Another issue that came up was that the automated system can collect from only one side of the street at a time. It is possible that rather than make an awkward turn-around to get the other side the city may require that one side of the street be designated for all garbage cans. I wonder if it would make sense to do all garbage cans on one side and all recyclables on the other? But maybe the two trucks would be coming face-to-face too often, and either cause awkward stops (and traffic jams), or accidents because of truck drivers feeling road rage.
The city of Toledo doesn't "own" the containers used in the pilot program. The presenter pointed out that the company who owns the cans is "investing" $300,000 in the program in hopes that they will recoup their "investment" if they are accepted as vendors. All the cans in the pilot program are the same size: 96 gallons; but if we contract with these companies you will have a choice of containers in three sizes: 48 gallon, 64 gallon, and 96 gallon (if I remember correctly). Many of the trucks will be able to handle all three sizes so there might be some choice in future of what size trashcan you put out for your trash.
I do not wish to be a part of the pilot program. I do not want to see any changes made at all. I want the same service our payroll tax has been paying for for the past 2 dozen years.
Going off grid sounds like a perfect sollution. Maybe I can simply dump my trash in a unkempt city park or one off the city's many vacant houses or businesses ? Then when i do not particpate in the recycling program they automatically signed me up for i can get a fine. Guess i better mail in that opt out postcard.
I do not like the argument we have to do this because all our trucks are dying. Or to extend the life of a landfill Those failures should have been address before they became huge problems. I see this as change for change sake.
Landfills fill up...How do you address the problem? You dig a new hole at big $$$ or you put less into the one you have making it last longer.
What other option do you think the city should do?
Ohio is a garbage-import state from those states with even more virulent NIMBYs and regulations than we have. Landfilling is obviously not that much of a problem, access wise.
However, it might be a problem with PAYING for landfills as you imply. We might be charging New York and New Jersey an arm and a leg for their garbage ... and by "an arm and a leg", I'm not talking about all the body parts hidden in their garbage streams from big-city, East Coast mob activity.
Angrysage, you must not have noticed that you live in the People's Socialist Worker's Republic of Toledo. The People's Government around here will decide FOR YOU about your trash collection. You don't get to.
If you don't like that, then move away. Move up to Lambertville with that LibsCanBlowMe character and other survivalists and gun nuts and conspiracy theorists and Ron Paul voters ... well, fuck, now that I say all that, I had better move there myself! :^D
We have privatized trash collection in Sylvania Twp too. I have a few different companies I can choose from. In fact, I'm considering calling around for estimates, because I'm not sure we're getting the best deal from our current provider.
(Of course, I still end up paying a shitload more in taxes than I would if I were in the City of Toledo. Sigh. But, I guess some of the tradeoffs are worth it.)
Curious, too, how much do you pay per month for your garbage collection.?
"I want the same service our payroll tax has been paying for for the past 2 dozen years."
And you should also try and live off the salary you were receiving back in 1981....or 15 years ago....10? Let me know how that works out for ya. Costs go up buddy.
Just wondering, isn't the tax % currently assessed on higher numbers than 1981? 1993? 1998?
They certainly are, but if more people are leaving and incomes are not increasing at the rate costs are, then you still need to come up with that extra cash to make the difference or cut costs.
AKA Recycling fee
Which can be eliminated via the use of technology, such as automated trash pickup. And the bigger bins are actually easier to move then the little guys with no wheels. I had a much less hassle taking my parents garbage cans (the big BFI cans) to the curve than my three little cans without wheels.
There are costs associated with trash pick up that are like most others, will be there no matter what.
The cost of fuel, the repair and maintainence of the fleet and so on. Then there is the landfill cost.
Recycling could be better and should be better, but the market is volatile for the materials.
The city and county both want us to recycle and the county has dumpsters that allow us to recycle for free.
There needs to be more education and community out reach to make the program successful and cost effective.
One of our city councilors, one that actually engages in conversations electronically, understands this and wants to get us to that that point, where recycling is effective and city wide.
...of the area being evaluated. Better yet, I would like to see the program privatized (even if it means I have to pay more for services).
I had no clue I was going to be part until yesterday. I was not in the original maps that I saw about the test areas.
If the new vehicles are power-everything (steering, brakes, etc.) I would assume this would open up a lot more jobs to women in this area. This would probably piss a lot of guys off, but women might be better suited to this work than men (better fine motor skills) when it comes to handling the joy-stick that controls the crane that lifts the new cans. This work might even appeal to more effete amoung us. No more handing diapers out of ripped plastic bags, and other such crap. Instead, a nice clean job with few muscle aches. Even a skinny little guy like me might be able to do it (if I were younger).
oldsouthendbrdy, your comment amused me. :) yeah, us women like to handling the joy-stick that controls the crane that lifts the new cans. someone's mind is in the gutter. :)
it's nice to read your posts again.
...I've got to watch myself, though. I was getting a.lot of stuff done while I was off the 'net. Well, time for me to go help a neighbor with a stray cat.
Old SouthEndBrdy, did they happen to mention exactally where we're supposed to put the bins? (I'm not in the pilot program and between work and cub scouts missed the meeting).
....because many older, or disabled people are afraid they won't be able to manage the new cans. The spokesman said (because of uniformity) that probably that wouldn't be a good idea, or even possible. I don't know the dimensions of the can but some people expressed doubt that they would be able to get them through the gates in the fences. Much of this will have to be worked out, I guess. And winter will add another twist to it (although Bowling Green, OH has had this system for at least one winter, and survived it).
I remember the picture from the story on BG's trash pick up and that's what got me thinking because it looked like they were actually setting the bins out on their driveway approach.
Made me think how mine (or any of my neighbors with driveways) isn't wide enough for me to sit the bin in the approach and still get my car in or out.
we will have to make sure my husband, or anyone else, is not parked outside our house, otherwise there won't be enough room for them to pick it up. does that mean they will just pass us by?