AR-15 Assault rifle

Do people actually use these to hunt? These are semi-auto correct?

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gun used for protection was a single-shot musket and/or a flintlock pistol! NONE of the Founding Fathers envisioned arming common citizens with weapons of mass destruction. While stating that the AR-15 can fire up to 700 rounds per minute seems to be a gross exaggeration, one pro-AR-15 source claims that it can "only" fire 45 rounds per minute accurately. http://checkyourfact.com/2018/02/24/fact-check-ar-15-bullets-a-second/ The true number seems to be something in between these numbers, but it means that a lot of people can be killed in a short time by just one crazed individual.
DONNAHONEY -- I do not hunt, but I have a son-in-law who is a card-carrying member of the NRA and does hunt. As far as I know, he has NEVER HUNTED WITH AN AR-15!

In addition, those who LOVE the 2nd Amendment only quote the latter part of that amendment. Here is the amendment in full: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Why was the Second Amendment written this way? Many of the Founding Fathers were most concerned with the central government being too strong. That's what England had, and they didn't want to recreate the British system in America. Remember that opening clause, "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state..." The Founding Fathers wanted to make sure that citizens in the individual states could protect that state from the possible tyranny of a central government with a standing army to use against a state. They wanted each state to have a "well-regulated militia" for this purpose. They NEVER envisioned hooligan bands of unregulated citizens using weapons of mass destruction, not yet created, to slaughter innocent citizens rather than marauding armies of an evil central government.
Now the NRA and their supporters may not think of the potential killing of 45 people or more per minute as an unacceptable sacrifice for the freedom to own any weapon one desires to own. Do you? The United States has tried allowing ANYONE who wants a weapon to own weapons. It is estimated that, while less than half of all households have guns in them, many gun owners own more than one gun. So the number of guns in America is around 300,000,000! Do we all feel safer now?

Yes, people really do hunt with the AR-15. They use high capacity magazines, too. This is preferred varmint rifle for someone living out west who is having a problem with coyotes, wolves, or moonbats. The last I knew, there wasn't a bag limit on moonbats, and you could use electronic callers to bring them into range.

Women, by the way, hunt with AR-15s using high capacity magazines. Just not Dale Pertcheck's wife, or his mistress for that matter. Right Dale?

Weapons that our founding fathers were familiar with included knives, swords, boarding axes (tomahawks, etc.), pikes, and black powder flint lock firearms. It's said that a well-trained man could fire one round per 20 seconds with a flintlock rifle. They didn't have bump-stocks back then, which is a real shame. By comparison, a well-trained man with an AR-15 can fire one shot per second and actually hit something besides the water from the center of the lake. Your mileage may vary, but this is the generally accepted rate of fire. A fully automatic version of the AR-15 is able to fire 800 rounds per minute; about 13 shots a second. Bringing out a used envelope and a pencil, you can empty a 20 round magazine in two seconds. A 30 round magazine in about 3 seconds, and so forth. Hitting anything is problematical. Some shooters can (I can. I've done it.) and most cannot. What full auto is good for is spraying a large area and forcing everyone to keep their heads down. The rule on shooting at the enemy with a fully automatic weapon is this: If you see dust, aim a bit higher. If they keep standing, aim lower. When they start falling, you're doing it right. My point is that this is the real difference between a flintlock rifle and a modern rifle.

Shooting at the gun range and trusting you'll at least hit the back stop is one thing. Almost any adult can do that. Hitting the target at, say, 25 feet, is something else again. I've watched shooters practicing for deer season who couldn't hit a thing at 15 feet. Shooting at a live target increases the difficulty exponentially, and if you're shooting at people the difficulty increases to a whole new level. Now mind you, these are people who are running away from you, the shooter, and who are not shooting back. This should be like shooting fish in a barrel, but it isn't. Cruz, for example, fired 150 shots and only killed 17, and he did this with a rifle made for dropping a 200 pound critter. So Cruz, a determined shooter, missed much more often than not. If some or all of the victims are able to shoot back, the difficulty of hitting anyone goes up again. In fact, the shooter may not get anyone at all. Case in point, how often does a police station get attacked by a suicidal psychotic, determined to take out as many people as he can? Cruz, by the way, just decided he'd had enough fun for the day, ditched his gear and slipped away undetected. Nice, huh?

The only valid argument I've ever heard for not allowing the teachers of a public school to arm themselves is that some would, and they'd carry concealed at school. Then when the fertilizer hit the turbine blades, they haul out their pistol of choice (almost certainly a pocket pistol), draw a bead on the shooter, and find that they couldn't shoot. Or they fire a warning shot into the ceiling (Lord help us all), and wave their .38 caliber magic wand around, anticipating that everyone will just start doing as they are told. The shooter will surrender, right? Or maybe the shooter takes a hostage, like on TV. Now what? How would you handle that one, Dale?

As for weapons of mass destruction and the 2A, the founding fathers were familiar with cannon. It took 7 to 14 men to operate one cannon, but the destruction would have been incredible. Grapeshot was particularly effective. So while they might not have ever envisioned a machine gun (we'll never really know the answer to that one) the country had just won a revolutionary war where the smart money was betting on the other side. They, the founding fathers, understood that tyranny was unavoidable, and so took precautions against it. They also understood that every individual has a right to self-protection, hence the 2A applies to individual rights - not just the collective.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a bit if every single gun control law in the country were stripped away, and a whole host of laws passed that ensured the right of the people to keep and bear arms. That's unlikely, but that's the way I see it. Full auto weapons would be self-regulating by economics, as would man portable missile systems. You ever priced a Stinger? They wouldn't be prolific because no one could afford it.

In the meantime, the government (Local, State, Federal) has had years to provide a system for ensuring the safety of a school building. Columbine was April 20, 1999, so almost 19 years have gone by with no good system in place. Nineteen years of more gun control laws haven't worked. Given the fact that guns are never going to be outlawed in the United States, maybe it's time to try something else. You think?

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

There are an estimated THREE HUNDRED MILLION GUNS IN AMERICA! How safe do you feel? You and the NRA claim that we have all of these laws which limit gun ownership, but America has THREE HUNDRED MILLION GUNS!! That mentally unbalanced 19-year-old bought the gun used in the Parkland, FL, massacre legally!
For eight long years, we endured the lies about Obama and the Democrats confiscating ALL GUNS! WHAT A CROCK!! Neither my card-carrying NRA member son-in-law nor his father have had ONE SINGLE GUN confiscated EVER!

One more laugh from you, MJ. 18th Century cannons were "weapons of mass destruction?" LMAO! Thanks for the education on shooting an AR-15. I guess a skilled shooter can fire hundreds of rounds a minute! Were those folks in Las Vegas moonbats? A lot of innocent people died, all righty! No limit. Woo-hoo! Guess those coyotes and wolves must threaten those poor westerners in massive packs! That's news to me!

As far as the issue of teachers having guns is concerned, the more guns there are the more guns will be used improperly. The statistics are clear. Here's something for you to contemplate about that issue. If students know that teachers have guns at the ready, what will prevent them from taking a teacher's gun and using it against other students or that and/or other teachers? The young man at Central Michigan University who killed his parents got the gun from his father. His father was a trained police officer!
Ever speak to police about burglars? You know what is at the top of their list of items to steal? GUNS! Burglars don't avoid homes with guns. They LOVE to steal guns! Guns are small, easy to carry, and great to fence! You get a good price for "hot" guns! 300,000,000 are not enough! America needs more guns!
Whew! I feel safer already!

Okay, so there are 300 million guns (or more) in the United States. So what? I feel perfectly safe, not that my feelings make a difference one way or the other. Neither do your feelings count for anything, Dale. You have no 'right to feel safe'.

The Columbine shooting happened in 1999. Local, State, and Federal governments have had 19 years to come up with a way to make public schools safe against violent crime. They haven't been able to do so. Given that the government isn't going to do a house to house confiscation of firearms this year, and likely won't try it while President Donald Trump is in office - what, six more years, right? - what do you suggest?

As for 18th century canon and mass destruction, read your history. Or re-read your history. Canon, mortars, rockets all existed back then, and those were the weapons of mass destruction that the founding fathers knew about. Barrels of gunpowder were available as well. If you really think that's funny, read a few of the first hand accounts of people who went to war, and provided you with the First Amendment that you seem to treasure.

Some schools have already armed their teachers, and did so sometime back. Again, a gun free zone is not a gun safe zone. Criminals know this - do you?

The only thing that gun laws have accomplished so far is to make it harder for a law abiding citizen to buy and carry a gun. The criminals tend to ignore these gun laws. What are you going to do about that Dale? I can find you some criminals if you'd like to confront them and demand they all turn their firearms over to you. For safety.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

First of all, here's what Australia did to end mass shootings -- and it worked!
http://fortune.com/2018/02/20/australia-gun-control-success/ And, if you actually read the article, the only guns banned in Australia are automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Australians, much like Western Americans, are hardy folks, and STILL do a LOT of hunting, etc. They use traditional weapons.
As far as a level of safety is concerned, most common folks felt MUCH safer when America had FAR LESS guns when I was growing up in the 1950s. We lived in a central city neighborhood and NEVER LOCKED OUR DOORS! With 300 million guns in America today, I NEVER read aboout people who feel safe. I'm glad that you do, MJ!
You keep referring to 18th Century weapons being used in war. Did any group back then EVER drag a cannon to a school, load it up with buckshot and blast innocent children? OOPS! Guess not, MJ! Little did I know that crazy Americans are standing in line to trade in their AR-15 semis for cannons! Yes, I continue to look at your assertions on this topic and I'm LMAO!
The United States has the highest rate of gun-related deaths among all of the industrialized nations of the world. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-rates-of-... On the list in this article, America is 11th among ALL the countries of the world. We're right in their with the most violent, war-torn nations anywhere!
Finally, here's an article about what the gun-death rates are in each state in America. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm Among the highest rates are in the South. The Northeast states are among the lowest rates, Oh, and despite what the current POTUS and the NRA might purport, New York, in the Northeast, and California, both rank among states with the lowest rate of gun-related deaths!

But, that's OK, MJ. Keep living in Egypt on this one. I apologize for using actual facts to back up my case. You stick to your unsupported opinions. We all know that facts may change over time, but your opinions are consistent -- consistently wrong!

Madjack, I noticed over on Toledo Talk that you and JR (Justread), jerk each off after one of you makes a dumbass post. Are you and JR (Justread) Lovers? Just curious.

Hope I didn't offend anyone!

Sorry, I left out the third member of the depends circle jerk club, Mariner, aka popeye.

Hope I didn't offend anyone!

I don't get the whole hunting thing. If you hunt for food so you and your family can eat or if you need to kill predatory animals killing your live stock is one thing, this I get. To go out in the woods and shoot animals for sport, I don't get. Like hunting is a sport, LOL.
When you have coward pussies like Ted Nugent shooting deer on his property that he fenced in or a pussy like Drumph Jr. shooting Lions in Africa to make him feel like big man,
these things I don't get. If someone wants some excitement and wants to prove his manhood, go hunt with sticks and rocks like the caveman did. Whats next, hunting with dynamite. Sport my ass. Just my 2 cents.

Hope I didn't offend anyone!

Here is an actual example of the circle jerk that I mentioned above. Some person posted a thread about having a sleep study done. The depend circle jerks hijack the thread with their
usual dumb ass humor. Here is the thread:
http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/216548/04Jan2018/Sleep_s...
Here is the stupid replies:

I had mine done years ago in my high school American History class. I passed, I guess.

posted by madjack on Jan 05, 2018 at 12:40:11 pm #

The magic marker mustache was proof of that.

posted by Molsonator on Jan 05, 2018 at 12:50:49 pm # 3 people liked this

I've always admired him for keeping the magic marker mustache all these years. He grew into it, for sure.

posted by justread on Jan 05, 2018 at 02:32:36 pm # 1 person liked this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgjOObPxds

posted by Mariner on Jan 05, 2018 at 03:28:09 pm #

Pretty funny huh.

Hope I didn't offend anyone!

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