A Balck man is killed by Police in the US Every 28 hours

Police officers, security guards, or self-appointed vigilantes extrajudicially killed at least 313 African-Americans in 2012, according to a recent study. This means a black person was killed by a security officer every 28 hours. The report notes that it's possible that the real number could be much higher.

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what the hell is a BALCK MAN? Never heard of him.

Pronunciation of the word Black in the Hood.

No, it isn't.

According to a recent study? What study? Who conducted it? What was the methodology?

We already know the FBI statistics. So be careful with any reading of "self appointed vigilantes" because how is that term defined? That's a loaded and subjective term so one must consider the source. Sadly the source is ZC who calls suicides lynchings.


Again, MikeyA, look it up yourself




Here's another outrage, Zey: Elton Simpson. Another misunderstood and railroaded Black man senselessly slaughtered by police for merely expressing his right to keep and bear arms. An outrage!


Just proves that some Black people are influenced by KKK philosophy. You know, that White terrorist Christian Group that formed itself right after the Civil War to terrorize anyone who didn't fit their image of White Supremacy. By the way, I didn't ask you to provide a citation like MikeyA does. I looked it up Elton Simpson myself.

What does the KKK have to do with Islamist extremeists attacking an art contest?

There is a difference between a widely known case and talking about a unique case, not widely known, where the details you provide bring up your post as the only source when researched.

In other words there's a fine line between known truths and bullshit.


What does the KKK have to do with Islamist extremeists attacking an art contest?

Nothing. Zey was merely trying to do two things:

1. Avoid criticizing that cultural cancer known as "Islam".

2. Somehow blame Whites for anything bad that happens, even if the bad thing involves Blacks and Islam.

I expected your responses. The KKK has been in this country longer than any other terrorist group, and still exists today. One of our Presidents was a member at one time.

So where's the reported evidence collected that establishes a link between Elton Simpson and the KKK?

(I know there isn't any, but it's fun to ask.)

The world is emulating the behavior of America. The majority in this country have been trying to assimilate minorities and religious groups in this country ever since European's arrived. This is not the first time there has been religious extremism. Look at your history. The KKK, which claims to be a Christian organization, terrorized Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhist, and also terrorized people of color and ethnic groups. Sounds like these guys tried to copy what the KKK has done. We must remember that the KKK was the largest terrorist group in the history of the United States. America wanted assimilation, now America has it.

I want to make it quite clear. I do not agree, nor will I support or participate in any extremist views or actions, but the current situation with extremism is fueled by America's own past.

I knew you'd find a way to blame Whites for Black and Islamic violence. But that way isn't valid in the slightest... because Islamic violent extremism pre-dates the KKK by about 1000 years.

You're a 'kkkook'. You're a militant Liberal by virtue of your mental illness. When you said you "work for the State" I'm guessing that you're a volunteer test subject for a new class of psychotropic drugs.

I love it when I receive compliments.

The only compliment you received from me is an implied one when I noted the likelihood that you were a volunteer to test psychotropic drugs.

Nothing else.

GZ, notice how he spins and deflects. He cannot answer a straight question with a straight answer.

I know you believe this is a derrangement of his mind that you define as liberalism but I think he fully understands what he's doing. He's just being naturally dishonest in my opinion.


But that's what Liberalism is... a set of ideas that are so wrong in the real world that they can only survive (as Sowell has memorably said) in places where ideas don't need to work at all. So we find Liberals infesting unions, government, academia and the media. Those are institutions that run on a "natural dishonesty"; unions claim they are economically beneficial; government claims to be helping you; academics claim you need their form of education; and finally and most grossly, the media claims it informs us about important stuff (like Miley's twerking, not that I even know what the hell "twerking" is).

Fortunately, part of the media empire proved unsustainable in the face of technological change, so lots of Liberals got shown the door in their newspapers. And as you might guess, every time a union falls, I'm cheering. But the war rages on. Union shits just slid into government and expanded the tax monkey on our backs. Academia is still in a bubble and people still believe despite all evidence to the contrary that they somehow need a degree (and the concomitant debt that goes along with it). Etc. We will fight this culture war with Liberals all our lives.

The Christians are the ones who started the Holy wars in the Middle East. The Christians invaded the Holy land and killed thousands of Middle Eastern people because they didn't want Islamism ruling the Holy Land. This war has been going on for centuries.

Christianity and Islam have been at each other's throats for centuries. There was no event that "started it". Both are crusading religions who were born in blood and whom take periodic dips in blood to keep their origins fresh. Both claim similar originating territories, hence conflict was guaranteed.

Your implied alliance with Islam is yet another stupid mistake, Zey. Islam is the religion governing some of the dumbest, most violent people on Earth. The more you Liberals fail to recognize that, the more you become alien to the American people.

The problem with saying "White people commit the most crimes" is white people are a larger portion of the country so it stands to reason they commit the most crimes. However when you look as crime compared to percentage of the population you see that white people commit on average less crime than other demographics. Black people outpace other demos as a percentage of crime and it's not even close. It's double the next closest ethnic group. When it comes to violent crime the gap widens. These are the FBI's crime statistics. It's not an opinion.

Also you don't see any other ethnic groups protesting that their groups lives matter above others. And that ignores the fact that the victims of black crime is the black community. Arguing anything counter to the facts prevents solutions to the problem. Blaming poverty and lack of education when crime outpaces those dispell them as the causation of the inflated rate.


Where is your citation? It appears you think your sources of information are accurate and everyone else s is incorrect. That is why it makes no difference if anyone provides a citation because you always take the position that their sources are flawed and yours are dead-on accurate. By the way, isn't the FBI the organization that flooded Oakland, California with heroin to make the African American Community docile?

FBI crime stats by race are easily found. Liberals know exactly where they're at, and even know all about them.


But Liberals can't admit the inescapable truth about what these stats imply about the Black population of the United States. Well, the statistical truth may be inescapable, but with help from the bankers, the physical truth can be escaped, and that escape has been given a name: White Flight. Liberals have White neighbors. Liberals aren't fooling anybody about their true feelings about Blacks in the United States. They won't live near Blacks, they won't work with Blacks, and they sure as fuck won't send their little darling children to school with Blacks.

Hell, even the Black middle class (largely a creation of affirmative action and government job positions) doesn't want to mingle with the larger Black population. The Black middle class has White Flighted, too.

So there is indeed a problem. And that problem is visually evident to anyone with half a brain and one eye open. Go out into Toledo and look around. If the neighborhood is shit, with blowing trash, dilapidated housing, and those police cameras, you'll always see a lot of idle Blacks wandering around. Everyone knows this. It's a fundamental part of our culture: The presence of Blacks means degradation, poverty and crime.

It is a shame that you have to live your life with such hatred. If you took all that energy that you are using to hate, you probably could become a human being.

Facts and logic aren't hatred.

And denigrating my Humanity is the very thing you accuse others of doing.

Yours is the dumb, hypocritical voice of Liberalism today... which is why it's dying off.

Wrong again, GZ. I do not accuse anyone of anything. I just state the truth, which is something that you and a few others on thissite hatefully ignore.

This is your accusation that I am not Human: "If you took all that energy that you are using to hate, you probably could become a human being."

Dehumanization is exactly what you imply you're against. But that's not what Liberalism is really about. Liberalism today is about social Marxism. It has nothing to do with Humanism anymore. It's all about collecting political power into a core group of elitist fucks like yourself, Zey. And since that system is short-circuiting, most of you are mad as heck that your future as rulers of the Human race won't come to pass.

You should have chosen banking.

Zero, back in a recent post you wrote the following:
Trayvon Martin was obviously going to end up in jail eventually. Zimmerman just saved us the trouble of paying an average of $25K/yr to house, clothe and feed Martin.
Those were your words. They are not based on fact, or logic. What you wrote was pretty much pure hatred. It's too bad you live with so much hatred.


Well stated, PMW!

My comment was purely based on facts and logic. Zimmerman's shooting was justified. There's only one way that could be: He fired in self defense. You only defend yourself against illegal attack. And the illegal attacker was Trayvon Martin.

Nobody is bothering to convict Martin for his crime of attacking Zimmerman, since we don't convict dead people. That's just a formality. Martin is guilty as hell.

So obviously Trayvon Martin was going to end up in jail eventually. That's straight-line logic used on the facts of the matter.

What the fuck is the matter with you Liberals? You just lost your ass in the UK elections for holding the line against justice and proper order. Your ideology is circling the drain. Keep supporting lawless minorities like this and you'll sink as low as Libertarians.

Nice tap dance!

"Lawless minorities"?

Keep supporting lawless minorities like this and you'll sink as low as Libertarians.

Sounds like someone is pumping out the racism without even realizing it. Be careful Zero, that's what racists do. Racists will often delude themselves into thinking they are not racist. Throughout history racists have gone as far as using science and statistics to justify their racism.

You Liberals have played the race card so much that we're just numb to it now. It's lost its power at long last.

We also know that if Liberals look left and right at their neighbors, they see White faces. Liberals aren't fooling anyone anymore; they're as racist as they accuse other people of being. They flee Blacks to avoid the despondency, poverty and crime that Blacks invariably bring to their neighborhoods. Even the Black middle class does the same.

As in most other cities, when you construct a Census-fueled map of race-by-area, you always find Blacks ghettoed in the urban zone. Always. There's a good reason for that... said reason having to do with the strong connection between despondency, poverty and crime and Blacks.

So when Liberals go into politics and keep trying to support these lawless minorities, they alienate much of America. If Liberals had any sense (as they plainly showed in the UK that they don't) they would ditch all this worship of lawless minorities and instead embrace a wider program of social justice. Of course, this means justice for everyone, which includes people like George Zimmerman (note: a Hispanic minority), who was railroaded into court. Until Liberals admit we can commit justified shootings in those situations, there can't be real social justice, hence they fatally alienate the law-abiding majority, hence Liberals ultimately collapse as a political force.

This is as simple to understand as a basic geometry problem, PMW. Stamping your feet like a mad little kid won't alter that. True, people buy into your "social justice" rhetoric for a while, but it's only for a while. Then there's blowback. People see George Zimmerman who fired desperately (we assume) in self defense, and then they see the hand of another lawless minority from the White House reaching out to throw the Department of Justice at him. That message strikes American hearts deeper than your "social justice" whining. The actions of Liberals speak louder than their words.

Ever think of looking at people as individuals, instead of focusing on the color of their skin? Try that sometime. It might help you to lose some of the hate.

I have lived in mixed race neighborhoods all my life. I know first hand that you are absolutely wrong and have no real idea what you are talking about. Your last post showed exactly who and what you are. Don't try to blame it on anyone else but yourself.

Thanks for proving my point. I told you that playing the race card doesn't work anymore, but you're just an algorithm. You keep playing the race card since you have no other instructions in your naturally-deficient Liberal programming.

You said: "I have lived in mixed race neighborhoods all my life. I know first hand that you are absolutely wrong and have no real idea what you are talking about."

So you're just another moron who pretends that FBI crime statistics are faked. Got it.

What you really got is "Liberalism" and it's a disease, a mental illness.

If Black-ish neighborhoods were so great, why do people flee them all the time? Why is crime and poverty and despondency so high in them? Sorry, I put the cart before the horse on that one: People flee them BECAUSE of the crime and poverty and despondency.

Everyone knows this. Everyone, from the most Marxist Liberal to the most Fascist Conservative. People can talk however they wish, but when you note where they live, where they work, where they send their kids to school, and where they spend their money, then you know how they really feel.

For example, for all the "diversity" rhetoric out of the Robert Brundage crowd, the Whites in the OWE sure don't seem to be sending their kids to Scott High School. Why is that? Because of the alignment of Mars and Jupiter in the sky? Fuck no; it's because White Liberals don't want to send their kids to a school filled with Black kids.

Post some signs in that 'hood about how they need to "lose the hate". It's pointless to do that, since it's not hate... you Liberals keep associating one thing with another, but it's really prudence and concern: Don't put your kids into a snake pit.

Try judging people by their character, not statistics. Statistically, serial killers are white males. It doesn't mean all white males are serial killers. Every person is different. You make a total fool of yourself by claiming to know what people are like just by the color of their skin.

By the way, my kids went to school side by side with others that weren't the same color as they were, and everything worked out fine. It's called living on the same planet.

"Try judging people by their character, not statistics."

I am. Blacks bring despondency, poverty and crime to your neighborhood. That's what the statistics say. That's what their character says as it forms statistics.

"Statistically, serial killers are white males."

Oh really?


So, yeahhhhh, that's a 'no'. Anyway, even if it was true that EVERY serial killer was White, serial killers are a tiny number of people... I googled up about 2300 serial killers in total for the United States, for about the period of 1900 forward. That's about 20 per year (half of which are White). In contrast, with about 15000 murders per year in the USA, assuming 1 unique killer per victim, that's 15000 per year (about half of which are White). That's a ratio of over 300 to 1.

"You make a total fool of yourself by claiming to know what people are like just by the color of their skin."

No, I am only sensible when I clearly observe what Black neighborhoods are dominantly like; they are filled with despondency, poverty and crime.

There are exceptions, of course. I've seen enclaves of Black middle class form perfectly nice neighborhoods. But once again, the exceptions test the rule as being true.

So, Dale, the next time you pull some numbered outrage from your Liberal Online Playbook, bother to fact-check it first. You can't win this one. Everyone knows what Black neighborhoods are like. I don't mind classifying that, since everyone knows what poor White neighborhoods are like, too. The escapists who fled to Maumee, Swanton and over the Michigan border don't want to live near people like me either. I don't mind; I hate yuppies in turn and want to watch them scream and die with burning tires around their necks. They don't like me, and I don't like them. That's why we can't live together. Like clings to like. That's the basis here.

You just did it again! Over and over you prove yourself a racist with your very own words. Do you honestly think you are judging character with statements like "Blacks bring despondency, poverty and crime to your neighborhood. That's what the statistics say. That's what their character says as it forms statistics"?

Let me restate it for you: try judging individuals by their character and stop judging a whole group based on the color of their skin.

If you want to be a racist, fine. It would be nice if you could just admit it and move on. The rest of us see who you are, but you seem to be losing sleep trying to convince yourself and others differently.

When I open my front door, I often see a member of the African-American family across the street. They've been living there for over a decade, now, and we have yet to see any deterioration emanating from their property. Indeed, other African-American families have moved in within that time, and I am still awaiting the deterioration GZ aka Chicken Little keeps ranting about.

GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass should get a wider circle of friends and acquaintances! I not only live in a mixed neighborhood, but I also worked with innumerable African-Americans in various occupations, including the teaching profession. I even roomed with African-Americans at a few different teachers' conventions.
I urge you, GZ aka Chicken Little, to do as PMW suggests. Judge people as individuals, instead of prejudging them based upon their race, any other accident of birth, or whatever religion they choose to follow, or chose to not follow, as they wish. Among the closest friends my wife and I have are one couple who were both born and raised in Greece, and another couple who were born and raised in India. Our lives are enriched by having these friends. And they accept us even though, along with our ethnic differences, we are both Jewish, and they are Orthodox Christian and Hindu, respectively. We were also invited to the wedding of an African-American friend and his wife who is European-American. That was about 30 years ago, and they're still married!

Diversity is the America of today. Love it, or leave it!

Like you, Dale, the Black middle class has White Flighted away. So they live near you. There are a few of them, sure... the Black middle class is tiny, and purely a creation of affirmative action. That exception puts the rule I noted to the test, and it tests true. There are a FEW of them. If your neighborhood became 30% full of them, you'd move.

"Diversity is the America of today. Love it, or leave it!"

America has left us. The tax slavery of the coming era is probably something that you'll miss, since you're one of the demented Boomers. But your children will definitely suffer; to continue living in areas free of despondency, poverty and crime, they'll have to pay a larger and larger fraction of their incomes as taxes. This will drive more and more of that class downward. Finally the natty Liberal twats like yourself will have to deal directly with all that diversity they claimed to love and claimed was so socially healthy.

Nobody really likes diversity, Dale. Your lies are your undoing. People want to live with people who are just like themselves. That's Human nature.

All you have, GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass, is vacuous opinion.

PMW and I both prefer diversity. And we're not alone by any means.

If you desire racial purity, you can find it in other countries.
America -- Love it, or leave it!
Bon voyage, GZ aka Chicken Little.

Yes, Dale, I hear you Liberals claim you prefer diversity all the time. And yet, your suburban and exurban neighborhoods are lily White. What explains this discrepancy?

The answer is obvious: Liberals prefer diversity as a cultural idea that they don't have to deal with directly. Diversity in housing is great, as long as it doesn't happen in your neighborhood. Diversity in the workplace is great, as long as your co-workers are White (I'm sure there are a few Blacks in the building, probably in building maintenance, where you don't have to deal with them every day). Diversity in schools is great... no wait, that can't possibly be the case, since Liberals flee diverse schools so heavily that they are willing to pay the costs of education twice (via property taxes and then via private-school tuition). So the school thing doesn't pass the least muster.

As for your admonition about love it or leave it... Dale, you Liberals have already left it. You White Flighted. The suburbs and particularly the exurbs are filled with White faces. You helped construct the Two Americas: The America of the poor and working class (PWC), and the America of the rich and Golden Class (RGC). I live in PWC America, and you live in RGC America (like like that nutcase Baumhower). Your class claims I'm the racist, and yet I live freely with Blacks and Hispanics; while implying or stating that you're NOT racist, your America is lily White. Hmm! Looks like we've dug deeply into Liberal hypocrisy.

mainly living in all white neighborhoods. Your vacuous post is an admission by omission!
Apparently, you are following the George Orwell, "1984" line: say a lie often enough and people will accept it as the truth.
For example, PMW and I BOTH live in integrated neighborhoods.
What part of this do you not comprehend?

I was just watching a show featuring Anthony Bourdain. He travels the world, mostly learning about different cultures by the foods they eat, and the way they obtain and prepare their foods. He was in one of his favorite cities, Glasgow, Scotland. He stated that Glasgow is considered to be one of the most dangerous and violent cities in the world. He also stated that a river divides the city, north end from south end, but there was a greater divide in violent life style. According to Bourdain and a retired police official, the west side of Glasgow was relatively free of violence, was clearly more prosperous, and held much more promise for its children's futures. The east side of Glasgow was run-down economically, and the general populous there were less well educated and much more violent.
Why is this relevant? Because, almost all of the people living in BOTH the west side of Glasgow, AND the east side of Glasgow are Scots. There are no significant minorities living there. By your thinking, GZ aka Chicken Little, this is impossible. According to you, Mr. Empty Glass, when likes live with likes, everything is honky-dory! If so, how can this long-running disparity exist in a relatively homogeneous society?

Get a life! Judge people as individuals! Diversity IS the America of today.
Love it. or leave it!

There is plenty of evidence Dale. The problem is you have to look at the individual cities.

You love San Franciso since your son lives there and you've several times used it as an example of how we should be. Well it's got the biggest wage gap in the country (on par with Rwanda). http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21012235/bay-area-wage-gap-widened-past-de... Blacks account for 9% of the population yet 40% of the crime. How has this come about? White liberals using property values to further increase the income disparity and keep "undesireables" out of their neighborhoods. They don't even have a "black enclave" in the city anymore. It used to be the Filmore district this is no longer due to housing costs. http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/26656-developers-aren-t-going-to-solv... You don't really believe it's the Republicans causing this in the Bay Area do you? The city has been Dem controlled for 5 decades, the state is under a supermajority Dem control.

You see it as well in cities like Detroit, Baltimore, and Atlanta. Whites have left and what remains is liberals and white liberals who use government subsidies to keep the poor dependent and only in the areas they want them in.


GZ aka Chicken Little is charging. He fallaciously claims that LIBERAL VOTERS leave central cities to live surrounded by only white people. Voting statistics, to which I referred, prove otherwise.

Before you comment, Mikey, read the entirety of posts, please.

It's not fallacious. It is exactly what happened in Detroit, Baltimore, and Atlanta.... as I've already noted.

In SF, they did the opposite but to the same affect. The liberals drove the black people out and into abject poverty through higher property values.

And I've provided citations to show it.


To repeat: East Toledo is well know as being a bastion of Democratic, liberal VOTES! Sylvania (for example) is a bastion of Republican, conservative VOTES. Most political liberals in the Toledo area do NOT live in "whites only" neighborhoods. If so, you or GZ aka Chicken Little, need to prove this charge.
There is no such proof!

It's really appalling that Liberals are so unable to think logically. Liberalism is a memetic poison. It fouls minds and renders them unable to function.

What happens in American society, and in fact in Western culture, is that young people tend to be Liberal, but once they accumulate wealth and responsibility, they become more Conservative.

People who remain poor tend to remain Liberal.

So what happens logically is that city cores which are filled with poor people, are Liberal constituencies.

People who flee these foul rotting cores tend to be wealthy enough to be Conservative. Hence the suburbs and exurbs (particularly) tend to be Conservative.

Dale, you simply can't admit that you Liberals are out-numbered in the suburbs and particularly exurbs despite your White Flight there. In fact, you can't even admit that Liberals are outnumbered on the whole. Look what happened to your gun-grabbing plan. That really fucking backfired on you. Every state now has concealed-carry expressly written into the law, even that holdout, Illinois. Militant Liberalism is on the retreat, everywhere... but Liberals sure do like running their mouths online like it's still 1994 or something.

Get it, yet? Liberalism is really a minority. The Congress is majority rightwing, the state legislatures are majority rightwing, and the governorships are majority rightwing. Those are far stronger indicators of where the country is, than a single Presidential election every 4 years.

most liberal voters do NOT live in lily white suburbs and exurbs,
AND that most suburban and exurban voters are conservatives.

Voter trends ebb and flow.
Remind me, who won the POTUS elections in 2008 and 2012?
What happened? Couldn't Jeb fix those elections as he did in 2000?

You're reading race into a situation where there is none. This article http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/26656-developers-aren-t-going-to-solv... is about the supply and demand for property in the Bay Area being so high it is keeping out everyone who is not rich. It has nothing to do with race, "white flight" or any of that. Instead, it is about rich investors keeping out the working class. A member of the working class can be any race, white, black, whatever. Likewise, rich investors can be any race as well. They can be foreign born or from this country. They can be from anywhere on the political spectrum. It is not about liberals trying to control where black people live. Give me a break...

Where is the section 8 housing?

I thought liberals were supposed to be so helpful with all their programs designed to help people.

Why do Blacks in the SF area outpace crime statistics of the rest of the nation?

Or just this....

Where is the middle class in SF?


they live is based upon what statistics? Since my wife and I live in a modest Sylvania neighborhood, there are some other registered Democrats around us, but not too many. Most of Sylvania votes overwhelmingly Republican and conservative. Ever see the vote count of Democrats running in Ottawa Hills? Barley there!
Anyone who has been involved in local Democratic politics knows that the strongest support for Democrats comes not only from minority neighborhoods, but also from working class neighborhoods of white or mixed races of the city. We would often refer to the "East Side" as "G-d's country," because Democratic candidates did so well there.

There are some, and I mean a very limited number as "some," white liberals who live in lily-white neighborhoods, far from minorities. But, if you actually check out the demographics, and look at [horror of horrors] statistics, you'll find that few of these lily-white areas vote for democratic candidates. I know, GZ aka Chicken Little, that you prefer your gut feelings over statistical evidence, but if I am wrong, prove it to me, other than just by saying things like, "I know this one guy who is liberal, and he doesn't live within 10 miles of a minority." You demand proof and citations from others. Cite some facts which prove me wrong!

Again the guy who refuses to cite anything expects me to provide citations for him. Entitlement.

GZ cited exactly the same statistics I was going to. And ZC you again are badly misinformed. I have never seen any argument that the FBI flooded the streets with heroin. Please provide a citation.

I believe you have all three facts confused. The organization, the drug, and the city. THAT is why we cite.


Only if you see it, it must be true. Right?

We have a son who lives there. I never claimed that San Francisco was perfect.
Others here decry liberalism as a consistent failure. Some even accuse liberals of having to be mentally ill!
I used San Francisco as an example of a city with consistently dominant Democratic mayors and city councils, which has a low rate of unemployment and high incomes among its residents. To me, this proves that there is nothing inherently destructive about Democratic and/or liberal governments. And there is nothing inherently positive about Republican and/or conservative governments. You may ascribe San Francisco's success to some type of gigantic conspiracy to kick out poor people. I need evidence of this. You show none!

I have consistently posted that I am interested in solutions to the problems facing our society today. I DON'T CARE if these are liberal solutions, conservative solutions, moderate solutions, whatever! If an idea and/or program improves society in a community, I'm all for it! For example, in Toledo, Mayor Paula Hicks-Hudson arranged for ALL of the cities pools to be opened this summer, using donations from businesses and individuals. Is this a "liberal" solution, or a "conservative" solution to something which is a quality of life issue? I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE! And, I have no idea how many people will take advantage of these pool areas. I do know that these pools will provide some, perhaps many, Toledoans with a respite from the coming summer heat. It's a good thing. The ideology of the program means absolutely NOTHING to me.

(I am responding to PMW's posting from Sun, 2015-05-10 17:06, due to the shrinking-columns problem.)

PMW said: "Over and over you prove yourself a racist with your very own words."

FBI statistics and my own eyes are racist? Do tell.

PMW said: "Do you honestly think you are judging character[?]"

Yes, since Black neighborhoods are filled with despondency, poverty and crime, and those don't show up there due to the conjunction of the planet Jupiter with the constellation of Leo. They appear there since the neighborhood is filled with Blacks.

Everyone knows this, which is why people flee Black neighborhoods, even the Blacks who attain middle class lifestyles, or sadly attain enough banker backing to flee.

Nobody wants to live in the average Black-dominated neighborhood. And it hardly matters why, since despondency, poverty and crime say enough about why, and more about "what to do".

PMW said: "[T]ry judging individuals by their character and stop judging a whole group based on the color of their skin."

The whole group is responsible for how their neighborhood ends up, just like I'm responsible for how my neighborhood turns out. Which is why I don't hide in my residence when people are trying to misbehave outside.

PMW said: "If you want to be a racist, fine."

Your Liberal "race card" no longer has any power. How many times do you have to be told that?

You Liberals and "White Knights" need to get off your high horses and read Jared Taylor, Thomas Sowell, and the like, so that you'll finally have to face the stark hypocrisy that glares so darkly at the core of Liberalism today. And... move back into Toledo. (You, and the Baumhowers of the world.) I hear the average assessed value of a house in East Toledo has fallen to $16000... snap one up, man! Cheap living should be attracting you money-grubbers here, right?

Jared Taylor? LOL!

You make me laugh, Zero.

That's who said serial killers are more likely to be white males, something you disputed. Check out the 3:15 timestamp of this video: https://youtu.be/zRE3Pj2FMao

Apparently you don't agree with him as much as you think. What do you think about his idea that East Asians are more intelligent than Whites?

“I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society.” -Jared Taylor

Do you agree with that? Do you think that Whites as a whole are inferior to East Asians when it comes to brains?

In my opinion Jared Taylor's ideas depend heavily on group think and generalities. It's all about race with him, and not the individual. When you get down to specific cases, where individuals are involved, his ideas fall apart. He's been around for awhile. He's nothing new. I've heard him speak, and read interviews with him too many times to know what he says and believes. I wouldn't need to waste time or money on any of his books.

Jared Taylor is a highly educated man (meaning he has your permission to speak, according to you) with direct international experience in observing societies.

Like with all intellectuals, he has his high points and low. That doesn't detract from his message, that being we should recognize racial differences and preferences instead of denying them.

If there's any name for his movement, it's "racial realism". And you Liberals are dead-set against it. After all, you want people to believe in the myth of equality, while also tolerating the highly unequal flow of welfare bucks to your diversity pets.

As for inferiority in brains, using IQ as a standard metric, I can easily conclude that we Whites don't measure up to Asians, just as Africans don't measure up to Whites. IQ metrics have their problems, but they aren't invalid. As long as you recognize that a low IQ is great predictor of low personal capacity, and a high IQ is less able to predict high personal capacity, then you are able to accept what the racial bell curves are telling us. And in the United States, the bell curves for race demonstrate that about 85% of Blacks fall below the average White IQ. Those bell curves eminently predict that Blacks are largely going to be impoverished and subject to a lot of law-enforcement attention. And so it is.

You Liberals can't unmake racial differences, just like you can't take away our gun rights. And it's high time we scolded you in public for all that. Take your nutty, anti-American ideas and keep them in your homes; Liberal ideas don't work and therefore have no place in the public, particularly in the scope of public policy, i.e. government.

Taylor is full of ideas but no solutions. His stance is that diversity is bad, that each race has its own interests, and that the races shouldn't mix. He is pretty much promoting segregation and all the conflicts and inequities that come with it. For someone who calls his view “racial realism”, he doesn't sound very realistic. What are we supposed to do, institute certain race zones across the land so that the races can stay away from each other? How about a little redlining? Maybe a little discrimination in lending? What are we supposed to tell a black man wanting to buy a house in an all white neighborhood... "sorry we're practicing racial realism here"? That might work in some other country, but in America he has the right to buy a house where he wants to buy a house.

Taylor is also pretty much a hypocrite since he himself benefits directly from diversity. He lives in Japan. He enjoys being a white person living in an East Asian country. Apparently it is alright for him to practice diversity but not others. How would he feel if his neighbors decided they wanted an all Asian neighborhood?

Jared Taylor is quick to tell us that diversity causes problems and conflict. Does his living in Japan cause problems and conflict? Apparently it does not. It does not cause problems because in reality diversity itself is not the cause of conflict. It is the practice of discrimination and hatred to prevent diversity that causes the conflict.

"He is pretty much promoting segregation and all the conflicts and inequities that come with it."

He's promoting voluntary segregation, which we have already.

The rest of your so-called line of thought is reactionary since it assumes voluntary segregation means involuntary segregation. The logical flaw there is glaring.

"What are we supposed to tell a black man wanting to buy a house in an all white neighborhood... "sorry we're practicing racial realism here"?"

We already do that. It's called "high property values". It's also called "the exurbs" since you must have a pretty good car to survive all that commuting, which Blacks don't tend to have.

"[Taylor] enjoys being a white person living in an East Asian country."

If you had read anything he wrote about the topic, you'd know how wrong you are. He was raised in Japan, hence he has a natural link to it. In his book "Shadows of the Rising Sun" (which I've read and which I encourage you to read) he goes on and on about the (culturally-labeled) dark side of Japanese culture. In short, he's gaijin there, and although that's clearly a second-class citizen (by culture and law), at least he has more status in the eyes of the Nips than does the rare White person who becomes an actual Japanese citizen. Whites-becoming-Japanese are true outcasts, having all the lack of status due to being non-Oriental, combined with none of the benefits of being a "foreigner" (in the sense of "exotic visitor"). So about the only thing that Taylor enjoys in his adopted land is being an exotic visitor (since to my knowledge he never wanted to be a Japanese citizen), which any of us would enjoy... in a land where the rule of law is very strong, unlike many other places where diversity exists, where the rule of law offers little support, like the United States.

Taylor is taking advantage of being more than just an icon of diversity. Speaking of which, sorry I missed your stupidity earlier: Japan is highly UN-diverse. There is no such culture (and social poison) of diversity as you Liberals have pushed so heavily here in the United States. Foreigners stand out in Japan since they are so few. Well over 90% of the people on the Japanese islands are visually Oriental, with epicanthic folds and black hair. That's a remarkable difference compared to the United States, where "few" is not how you should be labeling Blacks and Hispanics in our country. Non-Hispanic Whites are the majority, but only about 64%, and they don't look the same as a group anyway.

"Does his living in Japan cause problems and conflict? Apparently it does not."

No, since he's heavily out-numbered, and if he truly starts some shit, he can be easily deported.

Diversity doesn't work. That's what you Liberals will be forced to admit, one way or another, and eventually.

Think about what you are saying.
He's promoting voluntary segregation, which we have already.
The rest of your so-called line of thought is reactionary since it assumes voluntary segregation means involuntary segregation. The logical flaw there is glaring.

That's sounds all fine and dandy, but this is the real world- not some “racial realist” la la land. In the real world such a thing as “voluntary segregation” can only work if all parties agree to segregate. If all parties don't agree, then it either doesn't work, or it must become “involuntary”.

Again my question:

"What are we supposed to tell a black man wanting to buy a house in an all white neighborhood... "sorry we're practicing racial realism here"?"

You claim he would be kept out by high property values. The first flaw in your thinking is to assume that all white neighborhoods have property values higher than what a black person can afford. What if he has the money, and the car? What do you do then? With nothing to enforce “voluntary segregation” how can it be maintained? It doesn't seem like the racial realist crowd has thought things through, or else you would be able to answer the question.

Fact is, America has diversity whether you like it or not ( and it wasn't caused by the Liberals). We have all races of people living here as Americans. Some came here on their own; some were brought here by others; some were here to begin with. With segregation there will always be the question of who sets the boundaries for whom. Setting up boundaries by race is not only impractical, but will cause the loss of freedom for individuals to live where they want.

Diversity doesn't work. That's what you Liberals will be forced to admit, one way or another, and eventually.

Well, in the real world, we better darn well try to make it work, as we can't go back in a time machine and tell the white Europeans that founded this country not to bring black slaves and settle in a land where an indigenous population existed.

"In the real world such a thing as “voluntary segregation” can only work if all parties agree to segregate. If all parties don't agree, then it either doesn't work, or it must become “involuntary”."

I can see where you're going with this. Voluntary is voluntary even if there's an economic exclusion. And economic exclusion is perfectly fine, since it's linked to the fundamental right you have to keeping your own wealth.

"What if he has the money, and the car? What do you do then?"

Nothing. Statistics have already taken care of that. Blacks suppress themselves. There are the occasional Black families in the "Whitevilles" of Maumee, Perrysburg, Swanton, etc. Like I said to the liar Dale before, they seldom rise above 5% of their populations, and are often in the range of 0-3%.

Other than your Liberal marching orders, I don't know why you're harping on this issue. We already segregate by race by using economics to achieve that end. A person who doesn't want to see Black people, merely has to move to a neighborhood with higher and higher property values. In the zones of the highest regional values, the percentage of Blacks drops to a minimal value, less than one percent. Anyone can see this by merely driving around with their eyes and minds open.

"Setting up boundaries by race is not only impractical, but will cause the loss of freedom for individuals to live where they want."

You don't get to live where you want, moron. You only get to live where you can afford to live.

Despite the outrage and expense, I am secretly hoping the Section 8 program does expand, since it will bring suffering to the all the Whites who carefully calculated a move to a mid-level Whiteburg just in time for expanded housing crashes and Section 8s to follow them. It's happening across much of West Toledo as we speak here, and it's continuing to drive bankruptcies and foreclosures and divorces in legions of assholes who only deserve it. Instead of making use of excessive bank credit to flee the problem, they should have stayed in their old neighborhoods and quite simply dealt with the problem... said "problem" being a very foul Black culture that should have been fought vigorously on the ground, using neighbors, police, and ultimately the Molotov cocktail for anyone too stupid to have learned the lesson by then.

charge about gun confiscation. This is raised in every election cycle. It was raised in 2008 and again in 2012. The far right claimed that Obama would order the federal government to confiscate all privately owned guns.
Obama's second term is up on January 20, 2017. I'm still waiting for the phone call from my NRA-card-carrying member son-in-law informing me that the ATF or the FBI or heaven knows which other federal agency, has come to take away his firearms. I'm quite close to his father as well. His father has yet to inform me that any federal agency has come to take away his guns.
Simply put, this is an empty charge. It is meant to appeal to the emotions of voters, rather than dealing with real, everyday economic and societal problems. You conservatives are just SO EMOTIONAL!

Personally, I fully support our Second Amendment right to bear arms. I have always stated so publicly, and I continue to do so. I oppose any federal program to confiscate guns from law-abiding Americans. And I cannot contemplate any situation which would cause me to change my opinion about that.

And, as far as gun confiscation is concerned, I'm still awaiting that call from my son-in-law and/or his father.
Still waiting...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

"And, as far as gun confiscation is concerned, I'm still awaiting that call from my son-in-law and/or his father." You can't be this dumb.

Ok, what happens if I travel with my AR-15 to New York state with my magazine that holds 15 rounds which is the industry standard? If I apply in CA for my concealled carry permit in Los Angelos county for just my non-public figure personal safety how long can I expect to wait before it's granted.


Remember the 2008 AND 2012 campaigns?
The POTUS does NOT control state governments.
Do Feds coming yet!

Still waiting...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

The President was leading the charge after Newtown. Only when Democrats in the Senate let him know they would block it did he back down and only offer small regulations that didn't do much.

But let's see what his stated policy is. https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_f... Notice what it said "Banning military style assault weapons". What is the AR-15 but a "military style assault weapon".

So.. the President wants to even go further than NY and BAN the AR-15. Now the AR-15 doesn't lead as the weapon of choice in gun deaths... and it's not even close. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/crime-study-no-rise-in-mass-shootings-...

So the President wants to take the weapons out of hands of law abiding citizens because it essentially doesn't kill that many people in the US. There you have it. His stated policy and the Dem controlled states that have take steps to achieve it.

No waiting needed. Just the need to open ones eyes.


My son-in-law is a card-carrying member of the NRA. No federal agent has come to confiscate any weapon he has. During both the 2008 and 2012 election campaigns, the Republicans trotted out the fallacious specter of Obama getting the federal government to take away all personal weapons! That was great propaganda. Gun manufacturers were thrilled. NRA membership soared. It doesn't matter what the truth is. It only matters what a lot of people BELIEVE the truth to be. It goes back to the book "1984." If you say a lie often enough, people accept it as the truth.
Remember, during his first two years in office, Obama had a Democratic majority in both Houses of Congress. Yet no law was passed to take away my son-in-law's weapons, nor the weapons in the possession of his father either.
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

In truth, the Republicans don't want this issue to go away, because they use it as one way to frighten people. They consistently appeal to the emotion of fear among the populous. For example, when was the last time Fox News, or any other right-wing news outlet, featured the fact that the violent crime rate is about half of what it was 20 years ago? That wouldn't frighten people enough. So, it remains an untold story.
Republicans and conservatives specialize in focusing on issues about which they have no intention of doing anything! It's all a show to get voters to focus on these issues, instead of things government can really do something about. The latest news is that Karl Rove and some other conservatives are advising Republican politicians to play down the Obamacare issue, because the Republicans have no idea what they will to if Obamacare were really to be overturned.
Republican politicians couldn't care less about the overall health of the people or the economy, as long as wealthy people who contribute overwhelmingly to Republican candidates can get excellent health care and make tons of money. So, they divert attention to so-called social issues, and other emotional issues. Conservatives are just so emotional!
BTW -- Still waiting...my son-in-law hasn't called yet!
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

Again, I provided you proof that it is the President's stated policy. Just because he doesn't have the votes to make it happen doesn't mean he wants it to happen or hasn't tried to make it happen.

I provided you with no propaganda. I provided you with a link to White House policy! That is no lie, that is what they are telling everyone.

And I already provided you with a law that takes guns away from law abiding citizens. If I go to New York State with my legally owned AR-15 and the most common sized magazine for that weapon I get arrested and my gun confiscated. Deny that law exists. Please.


Mikey, what you're fighting is the Lying Liberal, or LIE-beral.

They hate that working-class and working-poor Whites are armed. Those classes lean rightwing, and are also the biggest threat to the Liberal "diversity pets" (i.e. welfare-class minorities that form Democrat-voting urban cores).

They will never give up trying to take our guns. And by "our" I mean your guns and mine, Mikey... the guns of the rightwing working-class and working-poor Whites. Many Liberals are armed. They aren't against guns per se. They don't mind Liberals like themselves (or their families, as Dale likes to espouse) being armed. They just don't want guys like you and me being armed. We're the big threat... the threat against big government and diversity.

The Liberals came after our guns in a big way in the 80s and 90s. Sadly they got pretty far, culminating in the clearly-unconstitutional AWB. As you noted, Obama and his cronies are ready to pull the same unconstitutional crap again. They are ALWAYS ready. But as the 90s matured something magical happened: Americans realized what the Second Amendment really meant, and they fought back. By the late 00s, anti-"anti-gun" sentiment was in full flowering. CC was passing like mad. Gun and ammo sales were through the roof. The AWB expired and nobody sane dared to bring it back to the floor. So it became morning in the nation, for gun rights. The Liberals lost the gun argument for at least a generation, if not longer... so they became LIE-berals. They now lie constantly about who exactly was anti-gun in the first place, and what was done against guns by those persons.

"Nobody here but us chickens, boss." That's the new LIE-beral line. Suddenly none of the stupid fucking Liberals knows anything about the wholesale assault on our gun rights during the 80s and 90s. Whistle, whistle, nobody knows anything. They all look so fucking innocent now, right? It's all a front. And they're dead lucky that we didn't just round them up, scrape open mass graves, and plug them one by one at the back of the head nearly ISIS-style, as their lifeless and useless Liberal bodies fell like dominoes into the lime-dusted pits we should have prepared for them. Disarming Americans is treason, hence paramount to war, so mass graves are fair game at that point.

his father. Still waiting...still waiting...still waiting...

The POTUS has NO SAY over state laws. So, if you can't take your AR-15 to New York, with the "common size" magazine, will you be defenseless while there?
Where are all of the horror stories about guns being confiscated?

NO! I do NOT accept the fact that violent crime has plummeted over the past 20 years as "deflection." It is exactly and precisely on point! Why have people been buying guns by the carload, if the chance of being a victim of violent crime is so much less now than it was 20 years ago? Propaganda by the far right that has people believing that America is a more dangerous place to live now than it ever was, that's why.

But, go ahead, Mikey, and the other right-wingers here. Keep ignoring the fact that our society is so much safer now than it was 20 years ago. Keep appealing to the emotions of Americans. You conservatives are just SO EMOTIONAL!!

"For example, when was the last time Fox News, or any other right-wing news outlet, featured the fact that the violent crime rate is about half of what it was 20 years ago? That wouldn't frighten people enough. So, it remains an untold story."

"The latest news is that Karl Rove and some other conservatives are advising Republican politicians to play down the Obamacare issue, because the Republicans have no idea what they will to if Obamacare were really to be overturned."



"In truth, the Republicans don't want this issue to go away, because they use it as one way to frighten people."

In truth, the Democrats won't let it go away either. More facts for Dale:


Daily Reminder

Democrats hate that working-class and working-poor Whites are armed. Democrats will never stop trying to take our guns away, take our ammo away, or take away our legal right to guns or ammo.

"The POTUS does NOT control state governments."

State governments are no longer an issue, you lying dolt.

There are two SCOTUS decisions which totally removed state governments from the gun issue. Today, gun rights in the United States are totally controlled by three critical pieces of law or court decisions:

1791 Second Amendment
2008 District of Columbia v. Heller
2010 McDonald v. City of Chicago

Read 'em and weep, you piece of LIE-beral trash. Gun laws in these United States have been affirmed as absolute, per above. No state can take away your right to keep and bear arms. NY's anti-rifle law is unconstitutional. So, when will your lord Obama sic his Department of Justice on NY? Oh wait, Obama's DOJ has been too busy pursuing people like George Zimmerman. My bad.

Hey Dale, why not just hang a sign that says "I only support your gun rights verbally while I keep hoping my Liberal leaders will pass laws restricting those rights". As propagandists go, YOU SUCK.

Dale, I will never again let you militant Liberals get away with your sneaking around about guns. I did that in the 1990s and we can see the results (largely, the AWB).

"Personally, I fully support our Second Amendment right to bear arms."

No you don't. You're lying. The 1990s proved how you Liberals really feel about guns, particularly guns in the hands of the working-class and working-poor Whites. (And we know why that is, too: Those classes trend rightward, and they come in the closest contact with your beloved diversity pets. Nothing horrifies a Liberal more than a working-poor White shooting some home-invading Negro to death, totally justified of course.)

"I have always stated so publicly, and I continue to do so."

And each time you state your lies in public, if I'm around, I'm going to call you a LIAR.

"I oppose any federal program to confiscate guns from law-abiding Americans."

You see, that's part of your lie. (1) Gun bans were being implemented by states and municipalities, not the feds. (2) The phrase "law-abiding" tries to differentiate. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, meaning you can't use the law to differentiate. You can't pass a tax on guns, then state the non-payers are not law-abiding, then confiscate their guns. YOU would try that, since you're a Liberal gun-grabbing fucking LIAR, but I'm exposing your ways and means right now. You can't mandate that gun owners carry liability insurance for their guns. You can't mandate gun registration, you can't mandate training, you can't do this, you can't do that. The right to keep and bear arms is absolute; the federal government under the US Constitution has ZERO legal power to take a gun away from you, or stop you from obtaining a gun. All the federal laws about guns and gun-owners on the books today are obviously illegal.

Dale, we're not just talking about Toledo. We're talking about race in America. The liberals have continually pushed policies that are payoffs to the Black community that ultimately hurt the black community. Toledo is following the same path as Detroit, Flint, and Baltimore. When this is pointed out liberals scream "racist", you see it in this thread and it's clearly not true.

GZ and I have based our decisions in facts and keep posting them. I know I personally support more black americans owning guns and school choice. I would bet that GZ probably does as well but I won't speak for him. Now if racism is our driving motivation why would we want them more learned and better armed?

As long as the Black community keeps voting as a block and soley for Democrats there will be no major change. It doesn't surprise me that with a GOP President and GOP policies black business ownership outpaced that of the rest of America. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/business_ownership/cb1... And that when given the chance to continue improvements the Democrats even a Black President would sell out the Black community for tighter control on power. http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21PR-Amnesty_Black_Employment_081114.html We've seen this before with Janitors in LA who used to be majority black and were pushed out by lower wages by Democrats who were eager to get hispanic votes.


"I would bet that GZ probably does as well[.]"

You bet. Everyone should have the right to keep and bear arms. Felons. Crazy people. Blind people. After all... felons, crazy people and blind people all have the natural right to defend themselves. Take a for-instance: Say a previously-jailed drug dealer is sitting in his home putting together his "phat stacks" of cash and marijuana, and some thug kicks down his door to rob him of all that. Who are we to tell the drug dealer that he can't defend himself from such an attack? The drug dealer should have every right to pull out his gat and make the thug do the "lead dance". The police should then show up, shovel up the remains of the thug into a garbage can, thank the drug dealer for his accurate shooting, and then arrest him for drug possession. (Of course, Libertarianism says that drug dealing should be 100% legal, but that's beyond the scope of this posting.)

I've no problem whatsoever with Blacks on my street being armed. In fact, since it's all too likely they'll be shot by other Blacks*, they SHOULD be armed.

* Those wacky FBI statistics again!

Chicken Little is full of hypocrisy. He is often contradictory. For example, Mr. Empty Glass often states that, in his opinion, ALL BLACK PEOPLE live in deteriorating neighborhoods, and when they move to other neighborhoods, inevitably bring down the quality of their new neighborhoods. In contradiction, in other posts, he states that "middle class" blacks are part of the "white flight" to the suburbs. At the same time, Mr. Empty Glass concludes, without evidence, that ALL liberal, white voters move to all white suburbs, and when PMW and I point out that we live in integrated neighborhoods, Chicken Little conveniently ignores or denigrates this information.

Mikey -- I have NEVER accused you of being a racist. I have a LOT of posts here. Many are aimed precisely at you, by name. Please quote me where I EVER claimed you were a racist, and I will apologize. I have apologized to you before for misstatements I have made about you. I have no problem apologizing where an apology is appropriate. Actually, I don't think that you'll be able to find any time I have stated that ANYONE here is a racist. I am very careful about using that inflammatory term. I feel overusing that term lessens the effect of using it where appropriate.

The reason why you LIE-berals lie so blatantly is that you're desperate to control the public narrative so that you can continue to destroy the rightwing working classes.

I never said all Blacks live in bad neighborhoods. I said that Black neighborhoods tend to be marked by despondency, poverty and crime. Anyone can search just this thread to find my statements to that effect. I even stated (in English) that I've seen Black-dominated neighborhoods that were fine middle-class ones, but they were rare.

Nobody can sanely say that a few middle-class Blacks in your neighborhood mean that you're "integrated". Show me a neighborhood trend in the United States were Blacks are at demographic parity (about 13%) without also showing a positive correlation with despondency, poverty and crime... which you White Liberals flee all the fucking time. What I said before is perfectly true in accordance with statistics... people like you largely live in lily-White neighborhoods. Blacks there might reach 5%, but are usually between 0-3% (to one significant figure). The number of Liberal neighborhoods that have Black demographic parity (about 13%) is tiny.

And we all know why that is: Blacks tend to bring despondency, poverty and crime. Everyone knows this. It's not even up for debate, since 99% of the people who search for a house to buy, use demographics as significant indicators of neighbohood suitability... even though a good many of them couch their racism in terms like "too much crime" and "poor schools".

And I say all that being what's commonly believed to be a "poor White" (even though I'm solidly middle class). People like you, Dale, as a member of the Golden Class, don't want to live near "White trash" like myself either. I don't mind, since after all I'm not a hypocrite. But I'm not going to sugar-coat the issue either.

You debate yourself with your posts on different threads. Unlike you, I don't keep an eye on the number of African-Americans living in my neighborhood. I just know that there is one family across the street and another around the corner, maybe 4 houses away. Since I live in a very modest neighborhood, I'm sure there are many other African-American families, but I don't really keep track. That's the main difference between you and me. I DON'T CARE!

And you trot out that "Golden Class" argument again. Willard and his wife are in the "Golden Class." Jeb and W are in the "Golden Class." When they were born, they already had many millions in their respective families. In 2011, the only tax return which Willard would issue publicly before the 2012 POTUS election, as I best recall, Willard and his wife had a gross income of 200 times as much as my wife and I had. And they paid a lower percentage of their gross income in income taxes than my wife and I paid! Now, THAT'S being in the "Golden Class."
I will not apologize for both my wife and me being modestly successful. I will not apologize for either of us working our way through school. (I started when I was 14.) I won't apologize for working two jobs in the summers while I attended school. I will not apologize for our living frugally and paying for both of our children to get college degrees as well. That hardly places us in any "Golden Class!"

as part of one job I had cleaning offices of executives at a factory working the second shift as a second summer job, I didn't exactly feel as though I was part of a "Golden Class." Oh yes! I had to clean out the ashtrays after I dumped the butts and other trash, of course. And while I cleaned all of the floors in the entire building, I also had to polish the floors in the executive offices every evening!
When I was unloading sacks of mail from trucks starting at 5:40 A.M. while working for the Postal Service as part of a second summer job, I didn't feel like part of any "Golden Class."
While I was working in the Shipping and Receiving Department in an un-air-conditioned factory as a second job one very hot summer, with temperatures usually topping 90 degrees in the building, I didn't feel like part of a "Golden Class."
Mark Twain stated it well, (I may be paraphrasing here): "Opportunity only knocks once, but often people don't recognize it, because it usually comes to the door wearing overalls, looking like hard work." Something for you to think about, Chicken Little?

If being able to pay one's bills every month, and not being a financial burden to your children, makes my wife and me part of a "Golden Class," then Willard, Jeb, and W, must be part of...what...a "Diamond Circle?" And where do we place the Koch brothers? It is stated that they plan to donate $900 million to a Republican candidate of whom they approve in the next POTUS election. What's more valuable than diamonds? OK. I looked it up. According to one web site, there are 10 gemstones which are more rare than diamonds and, therefore, more valuable. One, the Red Beryl, is stated to be priced at $10,000 per carat. I was in the jewelry business at one time. I do know that some very high quality diamonds are priced higher than that, however. I guess that places the Koch brothers in a category so high it's indescribable!

The closer we get to the essential racism in the Liberal ideology, the more you tell lies.

Of course you care about your neighborhood's security. Hence you must care about its racial makeup... since Blacks tend to bring despondency, poverty and crime. Even middle-classed Blacks have links to that, since those links are cultural... the middle-class Black couple that moves into your neighborhood may be perfectly fine, but their sons and daughters are risk factors, since the very worst parts of Black culture are strongly linked to the young. And it's more than that... if it's not the sons and daughters bringing "thug culture" into your neighborhood, it's their friends, who are likely to not be of their same social class.

Granted, you and the Baumhowers of the world have automatically excluded a lot of Blacks from your neighborhoods by price alone (and you know it), but you can't deny the risk factors, hence your eyes are still open when you drive (not walk, since nobody actually walks around except in very poor neighborhoods like East and North Toledo) down your street. You'd note the appearance of that singular risk factor... small groups of wandering young Black males.

(I'm not going to bother responding to your whine about the Golden Class since you were outed on the issue a long time ago.)

by Mr. Empty Glass to be "principled" and "generally entrenched in logic?"

Chicken Little -- Do NOT state things as fact which are only true within the limited, skewed ideological box you build around yourself and your ideas. My wife and I have walked our neighborhood almost every day since we moved here in 1974! When you state lies such as, you know that we, "drive (not walk, since nobody actually walks around except in very poor neigborhoods like East and North Toledo) down your streeet," focuses attention on the vacuous nature of so many of the statements you post.

Myself, having actually known many middle class African-Americans and their children, I can assure you that most of the "next generation" achieve about as well as others in their respective neighborhoods, and at their social level. As an example, some years ago my wife and I were invited to the retirement party of a teaching colleague. She had a joint retirement party with two other women with whom she had gone all the way through school, including college. All three were African-Americans. Every single one of their children, who were all in attendance, men and women alike, were college graduates and had positions as professionals. As I recall, most of these in the "next generation," worked for private sector businesses. GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass -- you simply must broaden your horizons!
I will let those who read here judge as to which one of us is more credible.

"I can assure you that most of the "next generation" achieve about as well as others in their respective neighborhoods, and at their social level."

Wrong. The statistics are so clear on this point that you can only be lying.

Blacks underperform Whites by IQ and grades, per class. Blacks placed into White families when young, also don't "keep up"

We can speculate on why that is, all we like. But it's not even up for debate. What I said is true. What you claimed is just a stupid Liberal lie. You're a LIE-beral. No wonder Liberalism is losing ground in the nation; you retards can't admit the most basic facts of society; you align yourselves with "feel-good" fantasies about social structures that (ironically) you refuse to engage in yourself. After all, as far as statistics go, you Liberals don't live near Blacks, don't work with Blacks, and you sure as fuck don't send your precious little palefaces to school with Blacks. Anyone can look at Scott High School's demographics to see the bald proof of the latter... according to those, Whites with HS-age children must be far less than 1% of the Old West End. And yet, driving around the OWE, you can clearly see far more than 1% are there. What could possibly explain this discrepancy? They don't send little Connor and Madison to Scott!

How fucking ignorant can you be, Dale! Oh wait, you're a militant Liberal. It's not ignorance at all. It's AGENDA.

It's like the book "1984." If you keep repeating a lie over and over again, it does not morph into truth.
If these statistics to which you refer are so abundant, post a link to a credible study. From the studies I've read, once the family's income and eduational levels are factored in, you'll find that any difference by race is statistically insignificant. Prove me wrong, Chicken Little!

Once again, you bring up the number of African-American families in my neighborhood. Unlike you, I try to NOT post information I do not have as if it is true. I am not concerned one iota about what is the racial background of those who live in each house in my neighborhood. In contrast, since I do have young grandchildren who are often at our house, I do look at a website which shows where those who are considered to be sexual predators live. THAT, I care about!

BTW -- still waiting for our neighborhood to deteriorate...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

I respect GZ the same way I respect you.

I wouldn't say we like each other but I would say we appreciate each other. We've had our differences. On time he called be a blinded neocon hell bent on destroying the country and I called him a negative typical Toledoan with no ideas for the city so it's not all roses and perfume.

I find he is principled and while others may not agree with his conclusions his opinions are generally entrenched in logic. I am definitively more optimistic in general though.

I know you've never called me a racist but there are liberals on here who have. My opinions come from observing facts. GZ's as well. Too many on the liberal side are quick to throw out the claim of racism and as GZ has stated it's lost it's weight. Much like how I was accused of having "convicted" Michael Brown when I stated after seeing the convenience store video that the family's side of the story was probably exaggerated. So what you're seeing is liberals jumping at reactions rather than facts. When that happens you will be wrong more times than you will be right.


Little and Mr. Empty Glass. The negativity to which you refer provides the main reason for these aka's. I would respect his opinions more if he used more hard facts to support his opinions. Most of the time, GZ posts opinions which are his gut feelings. Often these gut feelings are anchored in urban myths and his limited education and experiences. He is logical only within his limited sphere of understanding.

I do agree that the overuse of labeling hurts those who overuse such charges, and minimizes the effect of using such charges. There are definitely times when such charges fit and are warranted. I tend to err on the side of under-use, rather than overuse. Simply disagreeing on an issue which involves race in some way does not make anyone a racist.
Discrimination, however, does exist. And, it is a greater factor in the daily lives of everyone who, by their appearance, are easily recognizable as being a member of a minority. As a Jew, who doesn't "look Jewish," I have often felt like that Eddie Murphy character who was made up and dressed like a white person in that old SNL sketch. You'd be surprised at the number and pejorative nature of the anti-semitic statements I have heard during my lifetime!

If you are referring to his comment two up from this (entitled "the closer we get") yes it is entrenched in logic. He is speaking from a factual basis. The greatest at risk is young black males. This is a fact supported by many studies.

Now his conclusions are his own opinion but he cited facts as a basis for them. Just because you or I may or may not agree with them does not mean they are not founded in logic nor does it mean they are unprincipled.


Where does GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass or you, Mikey, get "factual evidence" that children of middle class black families, according to Chicken Little, "are risk factors since their very worst parts of Black culture are strongly linked to the young."
Now, I've stated that African-Americans have lived across the street from me for over a decade, and they have brought no "thug culture" with them. I also told of my retired teaching colleagues who had every one of their children become college educated professionals. These facts counter Mr. Empty Glass's vacuous assumptions.
In addition, I pointed out that, as is so often the case, Chicken Little's assumptions about the walking habits in my neighborhood are ludicrous. My wife and I are far from the only people who walk around our neighborhood! What was his "factual basis" for stating that erroneous assumption?
His analyses on racial issues are far removed from reality mainly because of the limited nature of his personal experiences. Trapped within his tiny ideological box, Mr. Empty Glass simply cannot perceive that the experience of others can be so different from what he has experienced.

On another note regarding family matters, some of us are old enough to recall what an embarrasment Donald Nixon was to brother Richard. Others may recall the way Billy Carter embarrassed his brother, Jimmy. Currently, Hugh Rodham may prove to be that type of problem for sister Hillary. Which of these noted family members are part of the "thug culture" among inner city Blacks?

Young Black men face significant hurdles in education, employment, and cultural acceptance. If you don't concede that there is no further reason to discuss your anecdotes or false equivalences. Ignorance of the facts is a stronger case for racism and discrimination than anything GZ has ever said.


We agree that African-Americans face hurdles over which non-minorities do not have to leap. DUH!!

What GZ, (and you, apparently), cannot prove statistically is that the children of well-educated, African-American members of the "middle class" bring "thug culture" to whatever neighborhoods into which their parents live, and are a danger in these communities. If this is so, PROVE IT!

From my personal experiences, African-American members of the middle class are assets to the communities in which they live, and do work in their chosen occupations well. Some are even exemplary, like Dr. Ben! Dr. Ben has 3 sons. Should I be afraid of them? Mr. Empty Glass seems to think I should. Do you share this view, Mikey?

First let me apologize for you feeling I'm misrepresenting you. That's not my intent.

What you're asking for proof of the thug culture is to provide proof to something anecdotal. I cannot think of a study that would study that nor how to present it in a objective manner. I will say having spent a lot of time with Black men 18-25 from various classes the far majority I've seen still embrace the hip hop culture. Now is this the "thug culture" that's to be debated. I can say former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick gre up in an affluent Black household and I would certainly say he embraced the thug culture. But again this is annecdotal meaning I can only prove the instance.

On Dr. Ben's children. Following GZ's logic then yes. I don't exactly hold his view but I will say they are significantly more at risk than my son and they have more advantages than my son.


Only you know the young African-American males with whom you work. But, neither you nor GZ have statistics about the children of folks like Dr. Ben being a danger to their communities.
The only true disadvantages which chidren of middle class blacks face are from racial discrimination. And that's something we can all affect in a positive way by judging each person with whom we come in contact as an individual, not prejudging them in any way, either positively or negatively. I truly believe that's where you and I agree. And that does make us different than GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass.

"Now, I've stated that African-Americans have lived across the street from me for over a decade, and they have brought no "thug culture" with them."

Anecdote. You found ONE. (Assuming you're not lying, which is a bad assumption given your statements so far.)

It's a documented fact that Blacks bring despondency, poverty and crime wherever they move to. It's also a documented fact that Blacks underperform Whites per class... meaning, poor Blacks underperform poor Whites, middle-class Blacks underperform middle-class Whites, and rich Blacks underperform rich Whites. (That's another little factoid that Liberals like you can't admit.)

"My wife and I are far from the only people who walk around our neighborhood!"

Anyone can drive neighborhoods and clearly see there are few people walking. Anyone can drive by parks across Toledo and see few people in them. We're a withdrawn culture; we have a great many entertainments available now that keep us inside. Air conditioning, TVs, VCR/DVD, Internet, smart phones. But hey, keep denying it. You're only exposing yourself as a liar, or at least a man as divorced from reality as you accuse me of being.

your vacuous claims. When you use terms like, "It is a documented fact..." and you do not document anything, once again you are posting your gut feelings as if these are facts.

In this modern era where you can't actually keep people from using Google and Wikipedia, propagandists like you have to resort to bloviating on blogs to try to erect emotional barriers against simple search actions.

Your effort is in vain. Just like with the increasing use of police officer uniform cameras, you can't stop the truth anymore about race and culture. There's just too much data about it and it's too accessible now.

Kind of a big change from your Liberal heyday up to the mid 1990s, eh? Your ability to control the narrative by restricting information, is over. In the future, Liberal teachers will lie like crazy in class, and the students with their implants can cross-reference the lie to the truth in seconds and start chuckling. Liberalism is destroyed by truth, which is why you propagandists spend so much time fighting a losing battle online for the narrative. I'd find the entire thing distasteful for being pathetic, if I wasn't enjoying it so much myself.

documentation, huh? Same old, same old.
You have no facts.
You have no credentials.
You have no practical experience.
All you have are vacuous opinions!

GZ aka Chicken Little...it is you who are the one who bloviates!

Google works well, but I strongly suggest that you try to find some source other than Wikipedia. While it can be useful, anyone can post anything on there, and, if the information is incorrect, it stays on Wikipedia until and unless it is corrected. Happy searching!

Still waiting for my neighborhood to deteriorate...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

And we walked IN our "scary" neighborhood...you know, the one where black people live with what you label as their "thug culture." We did see some teenagers walking, too. None were too scary, though...they weren't wearing hoodies. Those are just SO SCARY, especially when it's raining! Survived again! Whew!
We'll walk again tomorrow. We seldom miss a day. We do try to avoid rain. We even walk most winter days. Haven't fallen victim to what you label as "thugs" yet!
Livin' on the edge, you know.
Pressing our luck every day!
Heaven protects liberals, I guess. Pope Francis is on our side, you know.

First of all, the only biker-types I have ever known personally have been people who love everything about riding motorcycles. My wife contributes quilts annually to the Black Swamp Festival at the Fulton County Fairgrounds every June for an auction which raises money for the Mennonite charities which include the Sunshine Children's Home in Monclova Township. And a "biker gang" named The Centurions, ALWAYS bids on quilts, "buys" them, and places them up for auction again as a way to donate funds to this worthy cause. In short, they create within me a very positive view of so-called "biker gangs."

Be that as it may...using GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass's logic, I hope that none of these biker-types move into my neighborhood, bringing their "thug culture" with them! Here's the link to the story of violence in Waco. Just remembered...our daughter and son-in-law live directly across the street from a biker. Using GZ aka Chicken Little's logic...watching out for the deterioration of their neighborhood! Glad my son-in-law is packin'!
Here's the link: http://news.yahoo.com/waco-guard-biker-gang-shootout-leaves-9-dead-07210...

the Waco riot. Drug dealing, assaults, at least one with nationwide affiliates, the other pursuing nationwide affiliation...sounds like a "thug culture" to me. Hope none live in my neighborhood. Glad we can be legally armed. The police might be intimidated or paid off, you know...right GZ aka Chicken Little? Sure am glad these gang members are well armed! Makes me feel much safer. That's the libertarian way, right?
Here's the link: http://news.yahoo.com/who-was-involved-in-the-deadly-waco-biker-brawl-17...
Since these gang members are almost exclusively white folks, and since they wear leather instead of hoddies, I guess I should not really be so concerned. Right Mr. Empty Glass?

The difference is I have no problem with a biker wearing the colors of a biker gang being stopped and frisked. Additionally I am not protesting the 9 killed by police as unjust. Nor am I describing the dead as a "gentle giant".

The behavior of the dead is not widely accepted in white culture.


And, Mikey, neither you nor I may admire the life style of these biker gangs, but a large segment of the community sees these folks as tough, anti-establishment heroes -- even the epitome of libertarianism. Bikers really have quite a wide-ranging number of admiring followers. And many, such as the folks to whom I referred, are truly good people.

In actuality, I am just trying to indicate that tarring an entire group because of the actions of one segment of that group is a very good definition of prejudice. GZ aka Chicken Little is so convinced that African-Americans are almost all evil that he cannot imagine any white person having a good relationship, even [heaven forbid] friendship with anyone of African background. He is so limited in his exposure to the wonderful variety of people who make up America today, that he holds these feelings as if they must be the reality for everyone. I'm just trying, perhaps lamely, to show him and others who think like him, how ridiculous such beliefs are.
I actually have attended, not only the wedding of an African-American teaching colleague to a non-minority teaching colleague, I have also attended the wedding of a former African-American student whose grandmother was also a teaching colleague. I also attended the swearing in of a good friend and teaching colleague when she became the President of the local chapter of the NAACP. I was the only non-minority at her church that evening who was not one member of a mixed-race couple. I also saw a teaching colleague from my school there, whose son I had as a student a few years later, and two of my former students who were brother and sister. I truly had a wonderful time. Imagine...all of those (I'd say about 150 or so) African-Americans and not one fight! There was even singing and laughing! And, I was able to park my car, walk in by myself, return to my car by myself, and get home alive and well, from an inner-city church! GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass, probably thinks it was a miracle, or that I am lying. Thank heaven I did not become a victim of "thug culture" that night!
BTW -- I'm still waiting for my neighborhood to deteriorate...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

The segment of the community that idolizes biker gangs is NOT the majority and it's not even close. So we are not talking about cultural acceptance.

Now there are bikers not affiliated with gangs who ride and wear leather but don't have a club patch. Well these individuals know that will bring you attention, some of it unwanted. This they must accept and tolerate that attention. Now, if that means stop and frisk then if you're a law abiding individual then you will comply. But if they were to become confrontational with a police officer then I would support the officer taking appropriate escalation of force measures. It's not a black or white issue.


to comment on this topic, but here goes. I am linking to an article about crime. Even by very loose standards, no more than 1/3 of the African-American population have committed felonies. And many of these felonies are victimless, mostly involving non-violent drug dealing and/or drug use.
Here's the link: https://www.libertariannews.org/2014/06/05/what-percentage-of-us-adult-p... (GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass should LOVE this source!)

So, just on raw data, the so-called "thug culture" does not affect the majority of African-Americans enough to make them serious criminals. Then, we must take into consideration the reasons why an African-American family would move to a suburb. Most who do so, have a relatively stable occupation, and, usually, a stable home environment. So, chances of such individuals or their progeny bringing a so-called "thug culture" to my neighborhood, are far less than one in three.
I wouldn't even hazard a guess at what those chances might be. All I can say, is that I'm still waiting for the "thug culture" and the deterioration that Chicken Little is certain will come to my neighborhood. And I've been waiting for over a decade!
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

Dale, I will comment in a public thread on what interests me. Now if I felt the facts were being properly treated I probably would not comment.

Just because someone is not arrested for a felony does not mean they are not a part of the thug culture. The clear majority of Black media and entertainment is accepting of violence. Look at the BET awards. Primarily a group of upper class blacks for a gala... which has ended up in violence several times. Look at Kwame Kilpatrick, an upper class Black politician, arrested after abusing government employees but also was known for taking his entourage to strip clubs and bars on government dime. Or how about purnhrt on here, an elderly black woman who criticized leaders because they had no "street cried".

I am in a country where racism actually exists. Where you don't call the police if your Asian and where you are turned away from establishments if you're from India or Bangladesh. So I have seen the worst parts of racism and it was not in the U.S. Any problems the Black community has to hurdle culturally will only be solved internally.


about anything you want.
I would be most careful, however, about classifying an entire (or most of them, anyway) group of people for the actions of a few. For every Kwame Kilpatrick, I could point out many non-minority politicians who have been crooked. That does not mean that I cannot trust the African-American friends I have.

And, as far as that "thug culture" coming to my neighborhood is concerned, I'm still waiting...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...
Been waiting for over a decade now, and still waiting...
Still waiting...
Still waiting...

Sorry that you share GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass's view on this topic. I really thought your experiences would give you a more universal perspective. Oh well...

I agree it's annecdotal but I used that to display how it crosses income classes within the Black community. My conclusions are supported by the facts which are the culture finds a higher level of violence to be acceptable, celebrates it, and as a result has a higher crime rate with particular emphasis on violent crime and this is across the board when you factor for poverty and education.

Now I don't go as far as GZ with my conclusions. I see benefits within the black communities acceptance of an aggressiveness but I see Black culture channeling it into the wrong venues. If the Black community could channel it into parenting toward educational success, and entrepreneurialship then Blacks in America would probably outshine every other race. Hopefully we see this realization in the near future but I don't predict it will happen as long as the Black voters keep throwing blanket support to Democrats who keep social programs that discourage self actuization.


at all levels have been quite different, I guess. When I worked in retail, the majority of our customers were African-American. Most were good people. My father's store was in Swayne Field Shopping Center, so our clientele was mostly working class people of all backgrounds. I did not find that the race of the individual meant much in customer relations. They were all people. Some became friends. I remember my father asking me to accompany him to the 80th birthday party of an African-American woman who became one of our lifelong friends. Her daughter was a customer and friend as well.
In addition, my experiences with African-Americans in my neighborhood and those with whom I worked were quite positive as well. As a matter of fact, most of the most dedicated union members among the teachers in Toledo were African-Americans. One, a former math teacher, was instrumental in analyzing the voluminous financial documents TPS reluctantly presented when we were in several rounds of negotiations. And, yes, I actually roomed with African-Americans at several conventions of the Ohio Federation of Teachers. I apologize to GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass because my contacts with African-Americans have been so positive. I guess my personal experiences greatly influence my positive impressions of African-Americans.
I know the statistics. I share the concern with the high rate of poverty and violence within the African-American community. I do have a very different view about which 21st Century political party gives African-Americans the greatest opportunities for their future, but, to me, the primary problems are still poverty and freedom of opportunity. Racial barriers remain, but the barriers of poverty affect all of those within the poorest areas of every city, regardless of race. And, you may deny the popularity of a violent biker mentality all you want, but I have seen how popular that type of rogue biker is in rural America, particularly in the South. It is real. And it is insidious. And, statistically, while most black victims of crime are victimized by other blacks, most white victims of crime are victimized by other whites.
Even though violent crime rates are about half of what they were 20 years ago, America still has a severe problem with violent crime. We all must work toward solutions. Today's children deserve a better tomorrow. It's not their fault!

Glass, as a true believer in libertarianism, believes that it is a "natural right" for ALL people to carry a gun. I am linking to an article about a person who, according to the article, was involuntarily committed twice. In the article he was shot and killed by police after he shot a random person AND a police officer. While I do support the right of law-abiding citizens to carry guns, as a 2nd Amendment right, I do draw the line at known mental patients and felons. But, I'm not Chicken Little. He'd rather be totally consistent [read intransigent] than be concerned about his own safety, and the safety of his family, friends, and community, by limiting IN ANY WAY who may carry a gun. Good for you, Mr. Empty Glass. Please don't get all emotional about his death. I know how emotional you conservatives can get when a white gun user is killed by the police. You conservatives are just SO EMOTIONAL!
Here's the link: http://news.yahoo.com/police-teen-fatally-shot-shooting-florida-officer-...

Sure hope this type of person never brings his/her "thug culture" to my neighborhood. He would look a little more menacing if he would be wearing a hoddie, of course.

I am sure that this type of relationship between police and all citizens, including minorities, is much more the norm than are encounters which have spotlighted negative actions by a few bigots. I'll let the story be told as it appears on the web.
Here it is: https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/moms-facebook-photo-of-hero-cop-strikes-...

The latest news indicates the police are preparing to start killing unarmed Black females.They did their test run by attacking an unarmed Black female at a high school pool party. It's a good thing that cameras are ready to record this type of behavior by police which has been going on for decades.

Most of the police officers I have been privileged to know and to work with conduct themselves in a thoroughly professional manner. They would not think of targeting anyone. They believe in their motto of "Protect and Serve."

What is that called when one taints a whole group of people for the malicious actions of a few?

I know people on the police force and also have relatives who are on the police force. Based on my experiences with them, it's better to keep an eye on them.

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