is this racism?

I work for an organization that does a small amount of business with the federal government. We had an opening for a a technical position that pays in the $70,000-$75,000 salary range. It requires specialized skills and experience. We advertised the position and got two applicants. One of them was ideally suited for the job, but we couldn't hire him because our applicant "pool wasn't diverse." You see, if you accept federal money, you must have at least one minority candidate for every job search (even if that position is unrelated to the government funding).

So, this guy didn't get a job and we didn't get an employee. Human Resources has indicated we must re-open the search, which we will do with little hope of getting a "diverse pool" of applicants. We are being encouraged to recruit a minority candidate. Essentially, that means to get a minority who either is or isn't qualified for the job to participate in the search so we can check a box on a federal form.

How is this fair to the candidates or the company? Another example of government interference and ineptitude.

We're re-thinking accepting government money.

No votes yet

It's not racism per se, but if your incorporated organization is willing to accept free money from the government, it shouldn't complain about a relatively low eligibilty threshold. You say the position was advertised but not how. A two-day classified in the Blade doesn't cut it, if that was the extent. There are minority publications and specialty publications to seek out for gettingthe word out. Groups such as the African American and Hispanic chambers of commerce are good resources for identifying potential candidates. Minority alumni groups from UT could be of assistance. Your organization sounds like it needs to work on how to cast a wider net.

Patience is a great virtue.

Would that be like saying there is no such thing as price gouging, because its a free market society.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

We don't get "free money" from the government. We are an organization that makes a product that every level of government uses. Keep in mind that a government produces nothing. Government tells us what price it will pay (typically 8% below our commercial price). There is no other company in a 3-state area that makes this product, so we have felt responsible to work with the government (even with its extensive regulations).

Concerning "net casting," every position for which we are hiring we utilize a search firm that promotes the job--by contract--in at least 6 publications/websites that focus on minorities. This position does not require a college degree, so universities aren't good sources.

So--is it racist that this qualified applicant (who was willing to move to Toledo) couldn't get the job because he wasn't a minority?

discrimination, yes. My comment was directed toward DW, I was using that analogy because DW said it wasn't discrimination per se'.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Tread, I said it wasn't racism per se, not discrimination per se. Two very different things.

Patience is a great virtue.

How so?

Why should that "free money" only be used to hire minorities when most all U.S.citizens pay into that "free money" account?

It's not a set-aside. The government attaches many strings to the money it eithers gives or pays out, including a hardly burdensome requirement that employers at least try to interview QUALIFIED non-whites. Don't you think that otherwise most white employers are going to feel more comfortable with prospective employees who look like them?

Patience is a great virtue.

No

No

Companies will claim they can't find any minorities or women because they don't cast a very wide net. The companies do this on purpose.

Companies claim they can't find qualified AMERICANS by writing the job description to be impossible to fill and make sure nobody sees the listing, then they run off to the government and cry for H1B visas to import people with, so they can pay Johnny Foreigner below-industry wages and know that he won't say a word because if he did they'd fire his ass and he'd have to go back to his Third World country.

The candidate that we wanted to hire was an American living in Iowa.

I'd be interested in getting an answer to the question:

Is it racist when a qualified candidate is not offered a job because he is not a minority?

Sounds like a pretty wide net, huh zed?

If the candidate is white, it wouldn't be racism, but a case alleging discrimination could be made. It'd be very difficult to win, though, since your organization didn't meet the diversity standard.

Patience is a great virtue.

There are three reasons that a particular race is given special considerations:

1. Others believe that a particular race doesn't measure up and must be provided with help to compensate for their lack of ability.

2. Others will blatantly discriminate against the members of the particular race.

3. The race deserves special treatment to make-up for the historical behavior of others.

How about if we begin to have universal expectations for everyone to eliminate #1, let the numerous anti-discrimination laws take care of people who paticipate in actions related to #2, and learn to suck-it-up and move on for #3.

What about giving preferential treatment to a race rather than discrimating against? Like hiring Asians for mathmatical fields?

The truth is most people in the US have never really seen discrimination or real racism. I am in a country where I see it daily. I am viewed as a second class citizen here but Westerners are still widely accepted and skin color has no affect.

Asians here, however, are treated as third class citizens. I've had a chance to talk to a few, their employers hold control over their visa and thus not just their vacation time but their travel plans are restricted by their employer. I went golfing and had my tee time moved up because the member of the club didn't want to be paired with an asian. I have to remember not to bus my table at fast food places because there is a guy paid to do it and he could get fired if I'm seen throwing away my own trash.

Poverty? This is a rich country and there is more than enough money changing hands but I've been to the slums here and let me say they make the worst parts of Toledo look like the Ritz.

I have gotten personally embarassed by the way some of the westerners act here. I'm thankful that in each case it wasn't Americans acting out of line and pushing the "Ugly American" stereotype.

MikeyA

Galt, some call it the "good ol' boys network" and some call it "white privilege." Whatever it's called, it is whites who have been "given special consideration" for so many years that most of them are not even aware of it. It's saturated in the culture, undetected because it's the norm, as mundane in daily life as making a pot of coffee in the morning.

Patience is a great virtue.

So, you would subscribe to my reason #3.

Then how much longer will we need to give minorities special consideration to compensate for the years of "white privilege"? 20 more years? 50 more years? 100 more years? Forever?

Does punishing today's generation of whites make-up for the (apparent) "privileged" actions of people they never knew?

As long as they get superior rights, they'll keep bitching. Like what happens when parents give in to crybaby children. In a few years, we'll get coveted victim status ourselves, and then I'll be the first one on the gravy train!

White men have been given superior rights for centuries and continue to get them. Many of them act like crybabies when they see a minority or a women obtain an opportunity or are successful. Example: Some years ago a Black person in Toledo started a sports training program that no one else was interested in developing. Over the years many of the trainees went on to get college athletic scholarships and several entered the professional ranks. All of a sudden, after thirteen years of success a group of White men proceeded to try to destroy the program and take it over because they concluded that the administrator and coaches were incompetent. The Administrator and four coaches had over 100 years of combined coaching experience, had coaching certifications in the sport, and were very successful in the sport themselves. The destroyers wanted to replace the program staff with uncertified, White Male high school students with little or no experience.

Fortunately, the destroyers were unsuccessful

I've been in the room during discussions about minority candidates. Supposedly well-meaning Whites will come up with a list of issues that will eliminate the minority candidates. The most used excuse is, even though he or she is the most qualified candidate, he or she won't be happy here. This is racism, but the decisions makers are convinced they are doing the candidate a favor.

Are you talking about a Country-Western Bar? With all kinds of Gene Autry, Hank Williams and Patsy Cline music playing all the time?

I'm talking about Corporate America.

Yep, you can't trust Whites. THEY'RE ALL RACIST!

I can't call it racism, at least not from your end. (It IS racism from the policy end.)

I can call it stupidity, though. Why would the federal government affect your entire business via hiring policies* just because you do a "small amount" of business with them?

Tell your stupid, stupid, stupid bosses to tear up the federal contract and ship all their fucking inventory back to them. Don't do business with people who over-reach (like unions). I don't care if it's government. Stop doing business with them. Let some other dorks take it.

* Your words: "even if that position is unrelated to the government funding".

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