When Did Collins Know About Potential Water Problems?

The 13abc I-Team has uncovered a letter from the Ohio EPA showing concerns about the city's water system dated in June.

The letter warns the city about the lack of progress being made to improvements at Toledo's Public Water System, in particular the Collins Park Water Treatment Plant.

It goes on to say the plant is vulnerable to potential failures that could severely impact the city's ability to provide enough safe water to its citizens.

"I cannot underscore boldly enough the precarious condition of Toledo's drinking water system and the imminent vulnerability to failure," wrote Ohio EPA Director Craig Butler.

The City of Toledo responded to the letter a little over a week later on June 16.

No votes yet

Know about the water problems? Right after Carty, Ford, and Carty again.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

(collectively) reward evasiveness. It is hard to imagine anyone in this current century being elected Mayor of Toledo while running a campaign telling Toledoans that our 70-year-old water treatment plant needs either the expenditure of multi-hundreds of millions of dollars in modernization, or multi-hundreds of millions of dollars to replace it. And they, the taxpayers and/or rate payers, would have to pay at least half of the cost under current law! Such a candidate would run 8th in a Primary Election with 6 opponents! Even Opal Covey would get more votes!
We can blame elected officials all we want, but, ultimately, as it has been stated many times, in a Democracy, we get the kind of government we deserve. When voters more regularly reward politicians for their honesty by voting for them, we will get more responsible government. Until then, we will most often elect to office those who are masters of obfuscation.

Couldn't agree more with you, Dale. But the public also depends on an aggressive and knowledgable press to bring these kinds of issues to light prior to elections. Last time around, the public was done a disservice by one of America's really, really great newspapers.


Patience is a great virtue.

DW -- You're right, of course. Media have awesome responsibilities in a Democracy.

Where ours has failed miserably for decades.

The first failure is subscribing to the Bland.


Since when have we been living in a democracy? The United States is a Representative Republic. If this was a true democracy, it would be unrecognizable to anybody, and the total population would maybe a tenth of what it is today, if that. A democracy, with Majority Rule, is the very definition of a lynch mob.

There are different forms of democracy. We do not have a direct democracy, because that would require every eligible voter to vote on everything government does. They have such in very small communities. Many towns and villages, especially in New England, run ALL of their local governmental business at once a week or once a month town hall meetings. In those meetings, the mayor is more of a meeting chair. Being the mayor is a part-time job. The mayor handles any decisions that must be made between meetings. If the mayor goes beyond the purview of her/his powers, they must face the voters directly at the next town hall meeting. Even a city like Sylvania, where I live, is much too big to operate as a direct democracy.
Some conservatives make a bid deal about this. They state that the United States is NOT a democracy, it IS a republic, as though the word "republic" is somehow anti-democratic. This is from the Merriam-Webster website. A republic is: "A form of government in which a state is ruled by representatives elected by its populace. The term was applied to a form of government in which a leader is periodically appointed under a constitution; it was contrasted to governments in which leadership is hereditary. A republic may also be distinguished from direct democracy, though modern representative democracies are by and large republics." In simple terms, a republic IS a representative democracy. The real power is in the hands of the voting populace. Therefore, we live in a nation which has a democratic form of government. When the people fail to properly acquaint themselves about the important issues of the day, and/or fail to actively participate in the choosing of their elected representatives, we far too often get a government which fails. As Thomas Jefferson stated 200 years ago, from the Monticello website: "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it wants what never was and what never will be. If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Finally, we can and do have majority rule. However, majority rule does not have to mean minority destruction. That's why we have the constitution -- more specifically, the Bill of Rights and several other amendments -- and the courts. Minorities in all areas of social and political interaction have their rights guaranteed. When those rights are violated, the perpetrators face the court system. As imperfect as they are, the courts most often protect the weakest among us against the tyranny of the majority.

You always try to weasel your way out of your' comments such as "there are many kinds of democracy", followed by paragraph after paragraph of irrelevant nonsense to trick people into thinking you know something. We STILL live in a Representative Republic, which I learned in the fifth grade, and you still haven't learned. Bottoms up, dude!

I guess the Merriam-Webster site is not good enough for you, so live in ignorance.
I'm so sorry that I cite factual information. I know how much ideologues hate facts! Those nasty facts get in the way of your opinions, based upon what you recall from fifth grade. Do you have total recall like Marilu Henner?

I'll let others who read here decide if your 5th grade recollection measures up to Merriam-Webster.

Just finished my wine, and it was sssooo gggooooooddd! Almost glad I have coronary-artery disease!

We still live in a Representative Republic.

The fuck we do. When one party gets to gerrrymander the districts to stay in control, that's neither representative nor a republic.

More people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the last Congressional election and I don't see a majority of Democrats in the House with Speaker Pelosi presiding, do you?

We have an Oligarchy and you damn well know it.

Soon you won't see a majority of democrats in the SENATE either.

Remember when the Dems said the country would make the Republicans pay for shutting down the government and they predicted a 30 seat swing in the House thus giving Dems control of it.

Ah, the good old days of last year.

What changed? Oh yeah, a lof of nothing from a certain party's leader.


And that will sink the democrats' party. Not only that, but none of his constituents ANY of the goodies they were promised. Even things that wouldn't cost anything, like political appointments. Clinton delivered more minority appointments. When any political party has a large block of votes for granted, why give them anything? The good stuff as a result, goes to the politicians friends and cronies. The DNC nominated a Black candidate, and now as far as the DNC is concerned, that's good enough for 'em. Well, maybe lifting the work requirement to get on relief was highly thought of by some. We'll see in November.

Does your bartender agree with your doctor? BTW, I haven't met a booze hound yet who DOESN'T love the sauce.

We all know that I have one glass of red wine per night, as prescribed by a cardiologist and an internist. How about you?

BTW -- Does drinking one glass of red wine per night make me a "booze hound?" If so, I plead guilty!

My evangelical spouse would call you an alcoholic.

It is considered to be a medical fact that, overall, those who totally abstain from drinking alcoholic beverages have a shorter life expectancy than those who are moderate drinkers. Of course, those who abuse alcohol have a significantly shorter life expectancy than do either moderate drinkers, or those who abstain.

Of course not, but who do you know that drinks ONE glass per night? We all know you stated before you drink FOUR glasses per. I don't care one way or the other what you do. I've been trying to figure out why your posts are wandering and somewhat incoherent, mostly later in the evening, and now I have.

So, G-MAN, from this post, it appears that you must be among those who cannot drink only, "one glass per night." I have been told by experts in the field of addiction, that not being able to limit one's consumption of adult beverages is one sign of alcoholism.
And, you misquoted me once again, as is your wont. I get 5 glasses of wine from each standard bottle, not 4. It's no big deal. It's merely another example of your not reading my posts carefully.

As for my posts being, "wandering and somewhat incoherent," I would suggest that you actually read them. You disagree so strongly with my positions that you can't bear to actually read my posts and think about them. MikeyA and I read what the other writes, and, at times, find common ground, or even find reason to change our opinions somewhat. I have praised some of GZ aka Mr. Empty Glass's posts. (When he's not off into his "the sky is falling" negativity, he makes some cogent analyses.) I read what he writes, too.
As for my posting late at night, I'm a night owl. I indulge myself somewhat in retirement after working for 50 years, and getting up for work at 5:45 AM for the last 35 of those years. One of my summer jobs, when I was in college, was working for the U.S. Postal Service. I did "mail handling" every morning, (unloading trucks of mail bags), and had to report to work at 5:40 AM!! I usually worked until early afternoon, then went to my father's jewelry store, washed up and changed in the back room, and worked in retail sales until 9:00 PM. And, I don't resent any of this. It was my life. I chose to work hard. And I enjoyed it!

I read ALL of your posts, as well the rest of the posts here. Like I said before, some of your posts wander all over the place and are hard to follow. Usually I can figure out the general idea, but not always. And posting your life story continually doesn't help. The reason I don't do that is other people think a lot less about how great I am, than they do about how great they are themselves. And any sort of personal story could be 100% true, 100% lies and anything in between---and free of anything that can be proven.

Collins did look like a buffoon during the crisis. Someone needs to tell him that he should have prepared statements because he appears very awkward when winging it.

However, my belief is what Collins knew and when isn't as important as to ascertain whether the individuals running the operation of the water treatment plant are qualified and competent. The Director of Public Utilities shouldn't be a political hack whose time in the City government position rotation has come to be in charge of our water supply.

To save any semblance of faith that NW Ohio has in him, Collins needs to clean house in the Public Utilities Department.

Mr. Moore is an engineer. Maybe we should place a philosophy major in his position.

According to the Toledo Blade, the City of Toledo knew six months before the crisis that the Collins Park Plant was in trouble and the Ohio EPA considered taking over the water plant.


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