A reasonable proposal

Granted, terrorist organizations such as Hamas that seem to revel in having children and women killed for propaganda purposes would bitterly denounce this rational idea, but we have to hope the sane still outnumber the insane in the Middle East.


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A more reasonable and lasting solution is to remove the prize from both religious sides. The borders were artificially created post WWll and can be re-created again with the stroke of a pen. Create a universal country where all faiths can live, visit, worship in peace under a world wide joint authority and security. Neither side will ever back down. Switzerland is a model since mankind worships gold and it remains removed, inviolate, protected by that universality century after century.

is that is naïve. As I have stated before, eliminate Israel; kill or remove ALL of the Jews who live there, and the Middle East would STILL be in chaos. Does this writer really believe that over 1000 years of religious warfare -- the worst of which is Muslim against Muslim -- can be ended just because the rational thing to do is to make peace instead of war?

Dale, he was referring only to the slice of land currently at issue, Gaza.

Patience is a great virtue.

Who are we to judge, sitting comfortably halfway around the world from the imminent danger Israel faces every day?
Have you read the goals of Hamas? GET REAL!!

Maybe you didn't read the link. He was referring to G-A-Z-A, about restoring order and calm in that particular piece of real estate. Or for you does the mention of Israel mean everything must be discussed in apocalyptic terms? By the way, he called for decapitating Hamas militarily, not giving in.

Patience is a great virtue.

Hamas was elected to lead G-A-Z-A. This is from the Preamble to the Hamas Covenant: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." From Article 13: "[Peace] initiatives and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are a contradiction to the principals of the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]...Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbiters in the lands of Islam...There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad [holy war]. Initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are but a waste of time, and an exercise in futility."

Hamas wants nothing less than to destroy Israel. And, they have the support of tens of millions of Muslims living in the Middle East, including several oil-rich nations. Try negotiating with that!

Why not invite the Jews to come and live HERE? Think about it. Six or so million immigrants, who are highly educated, motivated, able to think for themselves with regard to voting, who won't get on relief(and stay on it), who have skills in science-medicine-legal-engineering and educational areas? Compare all that to the people who are now headed here, as the Third World empties across the Rio Grand into the U.S. .

Then, the folks can resume the uninterrupted killing of each other in the Middle East. At first the excuse will be the arbitrary borders not drawn at the end of WW2, but the ones drawn at the end of WW1.

Why didn't we take them in at the end of WWII?

It appears that the general American public did not want an influx of non-Christians after World War II. The war got the U.S. out of the Great Depression, and the disarmament after the war gave the U.S. a recession. Most Americans didn't want boatloads of new immigrants adding to the ranks of the unemployed.
When Harry Truman ordered the U.S. Government to recognize the State of Israel in 1948, it was extremely controversial. There were many well-connected, rich and famous Americans who hated Jews. For example, it is well known that, in the 1930s, Henry Ford had a picture of Adolph Hitler in his office, and Adolph Hitler had a picture of Henry Ford in his office. For a variety of reasons, they admired each other. One of those reasons was they shared a hatred of Jews!
At one point, Ford ordered anyone who was not a mainline Christian, fired from the company. This included not only Jews, but also Orthodox Christians, because they calculated the dates of Easter and Christmas differently than did most other Christians, and often celebrated Christmas and Easter on different dates. And the senior Ford only died in 1947!
Keep in mind, too, that most Jewish immigrants after World War II were poverty stricken and poorly educated. America simply didn't want them here.

Nope and the Zionists don't need to rush to the front of the line for blame time after time. The removal of the prospect of EVER possessing the real estate reduces ALL covetous parties to null and void. Success of such an endeavour would require 100% participation of the world's governments bringing the bloodshed and carnage to a conclusion. Examine Northern Ireland and the influence of Sec. State James Baker.

Outside of a few areas in the northern 1/3 of Israel, almost all of the rest of Israel was desert, where few lived before the Jews started settling there. Overall, about 60% of Israel is covered by the Negev Desert.
Much of the Negev is blooming now. Israeli has poured huge amounts of money into irrigation research and resources, bringing water from its northern areas to a large part of the Negev. Because of the otherwise favorable climate for agriculture, crops can often be grown year-round on land that was useless less than a century ago.

There are some Jews who, at least for the foreseeable future, will never trust any other nation to give them a place where they can live without prejudice, outside of their own State of Israel. As I stated previously on another thread, the Jews in Germany before the Holocaust were the most integrated into society of anywhere in Europe. Such an extreme case of mass murder was the furthest thing from the minds of German Jews. They were not in (horror of horrors) backward Russia, after all. Germany was NOT the land of the Pogroms which sent millions packing from Russia in the early 20th Century! This experience played an unbelievably powerful role in the creation of, and settling of, Israel by millions of Jews, many of whom had fled the Holocaust, or -- by some miracle -- survived the Holocaust. One major theme by which most Israelis live is, "Never Again." Jews will "Never Again" be taken as sheep to slaughter by any other peoples who hate them just because they are Jews.

So, to your offer to come to America, the vast majority of Israeli Jews say, "No, thanks!"
BTW -- How many of about 1 1/2 million Muslims living in Israel are fleeing Israel to "enjoy freedom" in some Muslim state? How many lifelong Israeli Muslim residents are moving to the United States? In fact, one survey I saw stated that 77% of all Muslims living in Israel, would not want to live ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!
One truth which the anti-Israelis want you to overlook, or not focus upon, is that the Muslims living in Israel have more freedoms than they would have in any other state in the Middle East!

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Didn't Jesus object to many things written in the Old Testament? Didn't Jesus set out to reform the Jewish faith?
If the Israelis decide that Israel can't be destroyed because "it says so in Ezekiel," and they lay down their arms, it will be a new Holocaust!

Not exactly Dale.

He held the old testament to be the word of God and to be held true. He also said that his coming as the Son of Man heralded a new covenant with God. Meaning the old word was now overwritten by the new word of God through belief in God's sacrifice in the fulfillment of the prophecies. So when Jesus said he would tear down the temple and build it anew meant he was destroying the old way and starting a new one.

That is why most Christians incorrectly reference the bible for things such as homosexuality, roles of gender, dietary restrictions, basically every hell worthy tresspass. Pope John Paul said and I'm paraphrasing that yes there is a hell but he couldn't say for certain if anyone was actually there because all of our sins were wiped away with the new covenant.



That might be because that same 77% consider Israel to be Palestinian territory in the first place. As soon as Iran gets "the bomb", all bets will be off, anyway.

have it anywhere else in the Middle East at least. More freedom; better economic opportunities.
Between 1881 and 1914, it is estimated that about 2,000,000 Jews left Russia, mainly because of the Pogroms. About 90% of them came to the United States. All four of my grandparents were among those. If people are suppressed and they are allowed to leave, they leave! The vast majority of Muslims in Israel are living there happily, and want to stay, period.

The following quotes are from Muna Shikaki , a Palestinian writer. I am copying and pasting her words here to show how Palestinians do not have the same rights in their own country as Israelis do.

“As a Palestinian from the West Bank I am prohibited from entering any part of Jerusalem, Israel or the Gaza Strip. In fact, I am not allowed to use many roads within the West Bank, since they are reserved exclusively for Israeli settlers. This summer I took my husband and my mother-in-law, Americans from Kansas with no connection to the region, to visit for the first time. With their American passports they were able to tour Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv and most of Israel. As a Palestinian whose grandfather was kicked out of what-is-now Israel in the 1948 war, I would need special permission from the Israeli military authorities to enter my ancestral land.”

“The occupation, which is enforced through a system of checkpoint and walls, affects the transpiration of people and of goods. But it has an even more dangerous consequence: It separates Palestinians from fellow Palestinians. As an example, I have not seen my aunts, uncles or cousins who live in Gaza in over 14 years.”

“Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip aren't allowed to use Israeli airports and we are not permitted to have any of our own.”

She has chosen to live where she lives. She can move to another Muslim nation and compare her level of freedoms there with the level she has in the West Bank. Those living as Israeli citizens have even more rights than those living in the West Bank; however, I would still contend that either place gives Palestinians more freedom than they would have anywhere else in the Middle East.
The West Bank and Gaza are administered by two separate groups of Palestinians. She would have to deal with Hamas in order to see her family in Gaza. I wonder why she left that part out of her "tale of woe?"
Regardless, this all would be moot if the Palestinian authorities, including the elected leadership of Gaza, namely Hamas, would eschew violence, the destruction of Israel, and the killing of Jews everywhere. But, I guess that's too much to ask.

The woman can't even use the airports and certain roads in her country, and your answer is "She has chosen to live where she lives." How nice of you.

"The West Bank is NOT Israel."
Yes, that is very true, precisely why they call the West Bank occupied territory. Israel controls land that is not part of Israel, something that has always been a problem for peace. Israel creates settlements and expands its population into this occupied territory, something that is against the Fourth Geneva Convention. But, let's never mention that. It's better to tell the woman how good she has it, and tell her to "move to another Muslim nation" if she doesn't like it.

Let's face it-all people in the area are equal, but some folks are MORE equal.

And yet, this is what Mr. Apparatchik calls living the good life. For them, not him. He is here,of course.

Cleary we have a few Hamas supporters here and they seem to be on the left...why am I not shocked?

After watching Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11 IDGF what happens to them anymore.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

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