Anti-Israel Protesters

Well of course its Israel's fault for defending themselves. It's Israel's fault that Hamas has several tunnels that exit into Israel territory so they can kidnap and attack their people. It's Israel's fault that 3 of their teenagers were killed by Hamas. It's Israel's fault that Hamas fires hundreds of missiles a day into Israel. It's Israel's fault that the great people of Hamas put their missile launchers inside masques, and homes, and fills ambulances full of kids transporting RPG's. It's Israel's fault that Hamas puts their people in harms way. And even then the military gives people a chance to get out, but Hamas holds them at gun point while they run. Yeah, lets protest the bad Israel's for defending themselves.

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have your anti Israel sign, walking the streets. After all you have condemned Israel for occupying Hamas territory. And you don't like the U.S. military, or America as you have stated before. After all, YOU stand behind your Obama for the fundamental change of America, and the World. How's that looking as of today? The HOPE YOU wanted is gone. The CHANGE YOU wanted is for the worst.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Speaking about signs, have seen the ones today, carried around Paris? The only way I knew it was Paris, is because it said so at the bottom of my television screen. It looked like Hamas Territory to me, spreading across Europe.

I'm not in this thread and I object to your attack and attempt to drag me into it and find it patently offensive since it's basically what Chris probably told you not to do.

Also, posting an article to the front page then turning right around and posting a comment to it DIRECTLY ADDRESSING AND ATTACKING ME looks an AWFUL LOT like a way of evading that "no front page posts" thing... not a wise move, especially between Mikey, myself, and others trying to warn you about shooting yourself in the foot by whining about how unfair Chris is and saying he's a liar or "mistaken".

I'm not coming back to this thread. You can dig yourself a bigger hole, I'm just gonna be over there with a six pack waiting for the inevitable banhammer to smack you. Mikey, I'm willing to share a beer with you if you want one while I wait.

What about me? I'm thirsty, too. Why am I being discriminated against?

I wish I could. I'm in an Arab country and it's Ramadan so no beer will be sold here for another week.

MikeyA

But you posted here twice

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Doesn't mean he allows you to speak for him. I haven't seen any posts where Mikey warned me about anything. And who are you to warn me about anything as well, HYPOCRITE, LIAR.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Hamas territory??? So DTOM, you recognize and respect Hamas? I don't know AC, but I'd be willing to guess he wouldn't have called it "Hamas territory", as you are so quick to do. If AC was condemning anything, it would most likely have been for Israel occupying "Palestinian" territory.

That's also what the Palestinians have always claimed, that Israel is occupying Palestinian Territory.

That's because Israeli settlements in the West Bank are considered illegal under international law. The West Bank is, in fact, Palestinian territory. Therefore, the Palestinians do make that claim. Do you think they should not?

Israeli territory is illegally occupied!
Unless ALL major Muslim players in this region declare that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state where it currently is located, Israel will continue to do what is necessary TO SURVIVE!

I guess I have to say this over and over again. ISRAEL IS TINY, T-I-N-Y!! Israel is around 8000 square miles. Tiny Lebanon is over 10,000 square miles. Jordan, which is also quite small compared to most countries in the world, has over 89,000 square miles! And, in fact, Jordan IS a Palestinian state! YES!! In 1970, about 2/3 of the population of Jordan was made up of Palestinians. But, that's not enough for some people. The only thing that will satisfy them is the TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE! And you are supporting that position every time you criticize Israel's actions which are done for basic SURVIVAL!!

How is pushing settlements in the West Bank helping Israel to survive? What, to make Israel bigger? How does that equate to survival? Maybe they would have less conflict if they stopped at least this one practice.

Tiny...still spelled T-I-N-Y!!

When we did it, Pay, we called it Manifest Destiny. Israel's biggest misstep, in my view, was giving up control of Sinai.

Patience is a great virtue.

for peace. The Sinai Peninsula, by itself, is about 3 times the size of Israel, and contains petroleum resources, too.

ISRAEL WANTS PEACE.
HAMAS WANTS VIOLENCE!

If they are willing to trade land for peace, why do they turn around and take land by pushing for more settlements in the West Bank- which is viewed by many as being against the Fourth Geneva Convention? Just asking...I'm not trying to be anti-Israel. So often it seems like just questioning Israel's actions is forbidden.

Submitted by payingmyway on Sun, 2014-07-20 11:41.
"How is pushing settlements in the West Bank helping Israel to survive? What, to make Israel bigger? How does that equate to survival? Maybe they would have less conflict if they stopped at least this one practice". You have no clue, based on this statement. How did you state it, LACK of general knowledge

Try less proof reading posts, and MORE general knowledge about what you post.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Ok then...why don't you help me out. Explain to me the West Bank. Define it for me, and explain to me the cause of all the controversies that have taken place there over the years. While you're at it, tell how what has gone on there in the past hasn't contributed to continual conflict.

Can you grammar Nazi your own sentence structure. HIPOCRITE
Submitted by payingmyway. "While you're at it, (tell how what has gone on there in the past" ) , Go read DP's post's again, that will give you the premise for your questions.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

You just proved your ignorance, again!

Israel and the Jews who live there want to live in peace. Hamas and the Muslims who support them want nothing less than the annihilation of Israel and every Jew who lives there. Many of these fanatics want everyone who is not the "right kind" of Muslim wiped off this entire planet! Keep defending them, PMW. After they would be done wiping out the Jews, guess who would be next?

PMW -- Did you get the part about Israel being tiny? As in T-I-N-Y!! I know that this is posted elsewhere right on this very thread, but here we go again!

Dennis Prager's excellent analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8&sns=em

Pmw

Where is your Hamas sympathizer sign. Go research the history again. Try a non liberal slant you might learn something,or go read DP's post again.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

I don't have a Hamas sympathizer sign because I don't support them. I do, however, have sympathy for the innocent people trapped in the middle of this conflict, innocent people on both sides. And, I am smart enough to know that there are two sides to the struggle. Pointing out that Israel took homes away from people means I am only stating history. Stating history doesn't mean I'm against Israel.

Here's some history on the subject of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

His position would definitely lead to the total destruction of Israel and the death of every Jew living in the Middle East, including him and his family. Just because he is Israeli doesn't mean he's right. How do political parties which reflect his views do in Israeli elections? He articulates the view of a tiny minority in his tiny country which would fail to exist if his views became national policy in Israel.

I'm not in this thread. See above.

You're in it because DTOM put you in it. He asked you a question. You probably didn't notice because he doesn't know how to use question marks.

Pmw

Correct this, fake u gammer notsie. Did you understand that,if so,your grammar correction attempts are pointless. Referring to misspelled words,commas, ect,to struggles pertains to many who have posted here. Even you HYPOCRITE...

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

The video contained in the following embedded link is interesting and informative: Prager University, Political Science: The Middle East Problem, taught by Dennis Prager

Just keep in mind...Israel is tiny...T-I-N-Y! The Muslim lands surrounding Israel are huge. Target the real culprits here. It's Hamas and those who support Hamas.

Blaming Israel is like blaming the victim of a mugging because that person should have known better than to be in that place at that time. Or like blaming a business owner who is robbed for opening her/his doors for business.

Israel and the Jews who live there are in the type of constant terror that we in America can never really understand. Just imagine tunnels built across the state line in Michigan, in which rockets are prepared for launch, and, after those rockets are fired, the terrorists asking for pity because we invade them to destroy their tunnels, launch sites, and rockets.

Israel and the Jews in Israel are the victims of, not the perpetrators of, violence. As Dennis Prager puts it so well, contrast what would occur if Israel unilaterally declared the they would fight no more, to the situation of Hamas and the Muslims who support them, declaring they would fight no more? And, what happened in the past week when the Muslim State of Egypt tried to broker a cease fire between Israel and Hamas? Israel accepted, and Hamas fired more rockets at Israel. Get a clue!!

Prager leaves out a lot in his one- sided analysis. I never heard him mention, among other things, the Zionist Movement, the Oslo Accords, or the practice of pushing settlements in the West Bank. A more thorough analysis of the conflict would deal with these subjects and more. He basically boils the whole conflict down to one, bite size, ready to repeat, ready to absorb, emotional issue : "One side wants the other dead". This conclusion is very dramatic, and designed to be. In my opinion, this kind of one-sided, emotional, analysis is actually part of the problem. It strengthens the myth that Israel has never had any fault in the conflict. And, it bolsters the false notion that anyone bringing up what Israel has done is anti-Israel. That false notion is exactly what I'm getting right now on this thread.

Here's a little piece about Netanyahu, the Oslo Accords, and other items:

Unfortunately, there is plenty of hate on both sides of this issue.This video is about the West Bank. It is very recent. It is about a group calling themselves "Price Taggers", young Israelis that take pride in committing random acts of violence against Arabs. Listen to the young woman's reason for what makes an Arab "guilty".

When one lives surrounded by terrorism, some become terrorists themselves. It's a defense mechanism, quite literally. Are these few spouting official Israeli policy? NO!!

FYI -- The world's population of Muslims is over 2,000,000,000.
also FYI -- The world's population of Jews is about 13,000,000.
also FYI -- Here's the math. There are 154 Muslims in the world for every 1 Jew.

PMW -- Just keep blaming the victims, until the perpetrators come for you!

Sometimes size has nothing to do with discrimination and oppression. In South Africa a minority ruled through apartheid. Some would compare this to what is happening in the occupied West Bank, since a minority with a strong military rules there as well. Here is another Israeli soldier's story of the things he was called on to do in the West Bank. You may think he is misguided, but often those speaking truth to power are labeled as such. If you watch all the way to the end, he has an interesting take on just who the perpetrators will be. You know, those perpetrators that everyone warns will eventually come get people like me in the end. Again, I am not anti-Israel. I am just giving another side.

Are the Muslims living in Israel fleeing for their lives or for freedom? NO!!! Most of the Muslims living in Israel have more rights and have a better life than do almost all of the Muslims in the Muslim countries that comprise Israel's neighbors.

You have no conception of what living as a Jew in Israel, surrounded by a sea of an overwhelming number of people who want you dead, is like. Remember, if they are ever able to wipe out the Jews in Israel, and elsewhere in the world, YOU'RE NEXT!!

PMW -- You may truly believe you are merely, "giving another side." To most Jews, you appear to be taking the side of a powerful, terrorist organization which has access to almost unlimited resources, against a tiny nation fighting for its very existence. When you attack Israel, Jews perceive that you are attacking all Jews, everywhere. That may not seem fair to you, but that's the reality.

I am not trying to offend you in any way. And, I'm not saying Israel should lay down and have all the other countries in the ME run over her.

I must insist, however, that I am giving another side. It is the side of certain Jews living in Israel who agree with taking a different approach in the settlement areas where Arabs do not have as many rights and are treated very differently than Jewish settlers. I've heard them say that when it comes to the average person, Jews and Palestinians can, and have proven they can live together and get along. It is the side of those who believe government policy and a heavy military presence in the West Bank maintains a tension that keeps people separated. I don't know, but this is what they say. Maybe they are idiots. Maybe the only thing is to have everlasting conflict and war.

By the way Dale, it is obvious that we don't agree totally, but thank you for a good discussion. It feels good to discuss with someone using facts and not just throwing out insults and slurs.

I can tell you feel strongly about what you are writing, and I do think about what you are saying. I just think things could be done a little differently when it comes to the Palestinians and the Israelis. I think the Israelis are actually letting a good opportunity for peace slip by.

Again, good discussion. Maybe, some day we will agree. I've never been totally set in stone on this subject, and keep trying to learn.

It is my contention that if Israel did not exist as a Jewish state, there would still be turmoil in the Middle East. This has been the case for well over 1000 years, and Israel is only 66 years old! As evidence, the most murderous conflict in the Middle East in the last 70 years had nothing to do with Israel. It was the war between Iraq and Iran in the 1980s. It is estimated that at least 500,000 Muslims, maybe as many as 1,000,000 Muslims, died at the hands of other Muslims! If you're looking for peace in the Middle East, it begins and ends with the Muslims in that area. It requires all Muslim factions, at least as a first step, to accept the rights of Muslims from different sects to all live together in peace.
You are trusting in the judgment of some very naïve Israelis. They should learn a little more about the long-term history of the Middle East. Every POTUS starting with Harry Truman believed that they could do something to get the Muslims in the Middle East to understand how destructive their use of violence has been, is, and will be. Nothing has worked so far.
The most nonsensical thing Israel could do, if it wants to continue to exist, is to -- unilaterally, and with no preconditions -- stop fighting. Jews remember the Holocaust. We know history. We know that most of the world thought that could never be happening even when evidence mounted saying the Holocaust was, indeed, happening. We know that Germany was one of the most educated, sophisticated cultures in that time. We also know that the Jews in Germany felt more integrated into German society than did Jews in any other European nation at that time.
PMW -- Don't be so naïve that you believe all the Jews have to do is show "good faith" by dismantling Jewish settlements in the West Bank area. See how well that has worked when the Israelis forced all Jews in the Gaza Strip to leave Gaza? Don't be so naïve as to believe that all Israel has to do is to state that they really, really, REALLY want to live in peace, and Hamas and its supporters will allow Israel and the Jews in Israel to live there in peace.
As Thomas Jefferson stated, "Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty." Israel must be eternally vigilant or Israel, and all of the Jews living there, will die! That's NOT an exaggeration. That's NOT a statement meant to illicit emotional reactions. It is a fact!

Here's one Israeli's point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S2mJGMwsOs

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