Union loss translates into jobs victory

At least 2,000 unemployed Tennesseeans are glad the UAW got spanked a few months ago. They will now get jobs that could have gone to Mexico if the vote had gone the other way. http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/cars/volkswagen-to-invest-900b-to-exp... Congratulations Tennessee.

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Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Unions in America have had two important effects on the Country:

1. They were the originators of the entitlement culture--"I breathe, therefore I deserve a job that gives me more than my education and skills can justify."

2. The relocation of most manufacturing out of the U.S.--What company would choose to stay in a country where the threat of unionization could result in having to deal with the people characterized in #1?

If you can't find a decent job, don't blame unionism. Less than 7% of jobs in the private sector are unionized.

Just keep beating away!
(Seems like a waste of time to me.)

Why Dale? You hid behind it, as a teacher in TPS, for how many years?? In the private sector, your antics would have been discounted and discarded many years before you retired! And once again, as a former student of yours, I can comment on this, and honestly state, you were one of the worst instructors I ever encountered!

This is part of The Toledo Plan.
Sorry I didn't meet your standards.

The union initiates most firings? Could you give us an example in general terms, of what a teacher would have to do to begin the process? Absenteeism, poor performance evaluations? Just wondering. A relation of mine worked for the Board of Education for 35 years. She also had a DeD(sic?) She told us between Dal and Francine, it was almost impossible to fire a teacher. I can't ask her any more. Thank You.

In Ohio, tenure does NOT guarantee lifetime employment. It only guarantees "due process." The truth is, while some school administrators are very good to excellent, most are not. The skills needed to be a good to excellent teacher are very different from those which make a good to excellent administrator. Remember, the same colleges of education prepare both for their jobs. Most school administrators simply do not follow proper procedure in order to fire an incompetent teacher. They get angry, and just want to nail the person. Many times when they get angry, the anger has nothing whatsoever to do with the performance of the teacher. It may be personal, or just something the administrator finds to be annoying.
That's when unions can protect a good to excellent practitioner from being fired for a reason that has nothing to do with her/his level of competency. In Ohio, teachers' unions, in general, assure that due process is followed by the administrator. Too often, a poor practitioner has her/his job saved because a poor administrator did not follow proper procedure. Most teachers love to teach. Most love their students. Most hate having incompetent teachers teaching "their children." Dal Lawrence was typical in this regard.
Dal Lawrence was frustrated by a system which functioned so that incompetent administrators made errors which allowed poor teaching practitioners to continue teaching, but the union had to ensure that due process was followed in order to protect those good to excellent teachers who might be unfairly targeted by an administrator.
As with most teachers, Dal Lawrence did NOT want poor practitioners teaching "his children!" So, it took at least three different rounds of negotiations, but Dal Lawrence finally got his "Intern-Intervention Program", or, as it is now known worldwide, The Toledo Plan, adopted into the TPS/TFT contract OVER 30 YEARS AGO!
In TPS, the teachers union is primarily responsible for evaluating ALL first year teachers. A "consulting teacher" oversees the first year teacher. In a typical year, between 8% and 12% of first year teachers are recommended to be let go. ALL of these firings are initiated by the "consulting teacher" who is a TFT member, NOT an administrator.
There is also a component known as the "Intervention Program." ANY teacher, beyond the level of a first year teacher, may be placed in the "Intervention Program." That person is assigned to a "Consulting Teacher." They either improve, resign, retire, or get fired. The recommendation to place a teacher in "Intervention," may be done by EITHER the teacher's administrative supervisor (usually a principal), and/or the union committee at the site (usually a traditional school). Both TPS and TFT prefer that the administrator AND the union committee agree on such a placement. While I am not privy to the latest figures, the overwhelming number of placements into "Intervention" are done by both, in concert. However, al least 2/3 of these joint recommendations have traditionally been initiated by the union committees.
Nothing run by human beings is perfect. But, the Toledo Plan is far superior to the former system of leaving the evaluation of teachers strictly in the hands of administrators who are often overwhelmed with responsibilities, not qualified to evaluate teachers at numerous grade levels and/or areas of teaching, or, simply, protect the teachers they like, and try to fire the teachers they dislike. The two elementary administrators with whom I worked most of my elementary years had been a physical education teacher, and an industrial arts teacher, for example. And, overall, they were both good at their jobs. But could they properly evaluate teachers from Kindergarten through 6th Grade? Maybe; maybe not. I always got positive evaluations from them, and according to one critic here, I was lousy!

In the interest of full disclosure, I worked in retail sales for 15 years before I started teaching. My degree is in Political Science, from the College of Arts and Sciences. In addition, I returned to school to get certification in education through the College of Education.

I have a BA, from University College, and two years of Grad school, in their Adult Liberal Studies program. But I got tired of going to school full time, and working full time-and dropped out. Thanks for clarifying things about my question.

This is what systemic means.

"Most school administrators simply do not follow proper procedure in order to fire an incompetent teacher."

" In Ohio, teachers' unions, in general, assure that due process is followed by the administrator. Too often, a poor practitioner has her/his job saved because a poor administrator did not follow proper procedure."

This is a systemic failure. This is why unions are outliving their stay in government work and school districts. Because the union is protecting the bad teachers and not looking into the best welfare of the students.

"But, the Toledo Plan is far superior to the former system of leaving the evaluation of teachers strictly in the hands of administrators who are often overwhelmed with responsibilities, not qualified to evaluate teachers at numerous grade levels and/or areas of teaching, or, simply, protect the teachers they like, and try to fire the teachers they dislike."

The Toledo Plan has not worked. The district constantly and consistently lags behind it's counterparts in the area. If after 30 years the district has improved the plan has either failed or had no impact. Hell at 15 years is when it's time to go back to the drawing board and find something new. But one thing is for sure the status quo does not work.

MikeyA

Comparing TPS to suburbs and exurbs nearly perfectly fits the definition of comparing apples to oranges. Compare TPS to other major cities. You'll find that TPS is at or near the top by any measure. I hate to repeat myself, but teachers in the exurbs and suburbs, not to mention teachers in non-public schools, do not face the same challenges as do teachers in traditional urban public schools. Two huge factors are transiency and attendance. One can predict quite well the overall test scores in schools based upon these two factors. Several TPS schools in more suburban-like areas of the city consistently outperform central city schools, and often outperform schools in nearby districts. All of the TPS teachers are members of the Toledo Federation of Teachers.
If unions are the problem, explain this. Teachers in the suburbs and exurbs are also union members. Why are the test scores among these schools generally higher than those in TPS? And, in those districts, the unions are in the traditional mode of defending every teacher no matter what, in order to preserve due process rights for all teachers.
I do agree that there are systemic problems with hiring and retaining top administrators. I have several stories about that. I'll share two:
1. I know a person who was a teacher at a central city high school when I first started teaching. I've known him to be a top-notch person, although I never worked directly with him. He wanted to become an administrator. He had no direct connections to any other administrator, nor to anyone on the TPS Board of Education. After several interviews over a few years, and not getting an administrative position, he started selling insurance. He did well at that. So, he left teaching about 30 years ago. He is still a top insurance person today with the same firm he joined back then.
2. One of the worst teachers with whom I ever worked was the son of a TPS administrator. He left the school where I was working after only teaching for 3 or 4 years, because he got a job as an assistant principal. The last I heard, he had become a principal. With the attitude he had as a teacher, it would be hard for anyone to convince me that he is a good administrator. But, as I stated before, the set of qualities needed to be a good to excellent administrator, is quite different from the qualities needed to do well as a teacher. He was very likeable. I hope that he is doing well, but I have severe doubts about it.
The "systemic problem" to which you refer, Mikey, is the "systemic problem" of how too many administrators get their jobs, not only in TPS, but everywhere! "It's not who you are; it's who you know."

Dale, you need to learn what ridicule means.

"Comparing TPS to suburbs and exurbs nearly perfectly fits the definition of comparing apples to oranges." It's not. It's taking kids from the same area, exposed to the same dynamics, as a control. I was specifically thinking of the kids of Washington Local, located within the city limits.

"Two huge factors are transiency and attendance." And data can be factored for that. Guess what happens when it does... TPS still underperforms. And under the Toledo Plan we now have 30 years of continued slide downward. So please stop acting as if the Toledo Plan is good for the students. It's at best ineffective. Trust me my criticism isn't limited to the teachers. The administration is just as bad off if not worse.

MikeyA

Compare Beverly School's statistics to those of the Washington Local Schools some time. In some years, the neighboring school to Washington Local, DeVeaux's, test scores have been above that of the Washington Local junior high students' test scores.

In case you don't know it, Washington Local teachers belong to a union. And so do Sylvania teachers. And so do Maumee teachers. And so do Perrysburg teachers. And so do, even, Ottawa Hills teachers. As I stated, if unions were the problem, why are ANY of these schools with union teachers doing well?
One long-time President of the Ottawa Hills Education Association (now retired) had taught in inner city Toledo and Washington Local previous to his many years in Ottawa Hills. He describes it this way: "When I was in TPS, I was a very bad teacher, because the students I had scored very low on standardized tests. Then, I improved greatly when I taught in Washington Local. But, I became one of the very best teachers in Ohio when I started teaching in Ottawa Hills. It's amazing how much I improved over the years!"

Finally, show me the statistics where mobility and attendance are factored out. You say these exist. I have never seen them. I have seen the mobility and attendance figures. I have seen how closely these figures are predictive of test scores in individual schools. When the retired teacher from Ottawa Hills was teaching in that inner city TPS school, it's mobility factor was OVER 100%!!

Why is it that these Republicans, who claim to be all about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, blame UNIONS for bad schools and NOT the kids and their parents?

Who is more personally responsible? The unions or the parents who had the kids in the first place and are responsible for them until they're 18 and the kids themselves?

One of my relatives just landed a union job at U of M. After working many year in a non-union position in Toledo the pay and benefits are far superior at U of M!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

I'm a little confused. mrignorant has for months claimed the Michigan's move to right to work would destroy unions and force people to "right to work for less". But here he says he has a relative that now has a union job, and that it pays more. So either he was wrong about right to work or is lying now, I wonder which it is.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

RTW has not worked it magic yet in Michigan causing its population to live in manufactured homes like in MS and AL. No working in a union gave this person a pay raise by a third. Now the whiners at WSPD are crying that some city workers make money by working overtime. The indigent host cries cause they have it better by working in a union. City workers put in the hours and should be compensated unlike the at will workers at WSPD who only work three hours a day.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

The answer to this is to eliminate all "city workers." Get government out of the business of paying for health insurance and retirement plans. With the possible exception of legal and safety personnel (e.g. police, fire, and court workers), the government should have no one else working directly for it. Hire a company to fix potholes, replace traffic lights, take care of public land, plow the snow, oversee the water treatment facility, etc.

City unions have done what unions always do: 1) protect incompetent workers and 2) pay wages and supply benefits that are inflated as related to the education and skill a job requires. All of this on the taxpayers' dime. Time to stop it.

Dawwwwwwwwwwww, you're so cute with your privatization B.S.

Privatization works really well when you are a politician or political party in control and want to give your buddies tons of government cash. Doesn't matter if it's an (R) or (D), either, both sides do it, it's just who can do it the longest and give out the most before getting caught, and who sits above them that can let them off lightly or pardon them or otherwise protect them from being personally responsible.

Wanna discuss how many things you Republicans have spun off in the name of smaller government and privatization that have been miserable failures with skyrocketing costs?

" So either he was wrong about right to work or is lying now, I wonder which it is." Fred, it's probably a little(make that a lot)of both.

Oh, we don't blame unions themselves. We blame the laws that allow unions to take control of companies that they don't own, which is a violation of basic property law in these United States.

And those laws are changing. Natural liberties are returning. As time goes on and union filth is expunged from our private sector, people find themselves free. Free to either join or refuse to join a union, with that decision having no bearing on their employment. Free to refuse to negotiate with a union, regardless of the presence of the union in their own business. Etc.

I know you hate this liberty stuff, but you're Liberal and it's only to be expected.

No one is whining about anything. I was relating the facts as reported by Jerry Anderson in an investigative report for Channel 11. Are you saying that WTOL is whining about unions because they reported what is public information on how tax dollars are spent?
The question was about Nick getting a union job in Michigan which you predicted would destroy unions when they went to right to work status. So how do you explain the union job and the disparity between Ohio a non right to work state thanks to your union friends and the right to work Michigan job that Nick got?

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

How he explains it, is like he did on your show---by shouting and complaining and refusing to answer you main question. I think it was the one about where's the moral justification for FORCING someone to pay a monthly ransom in order to work there, although that one can be gotten around, by joining the Management side and keeping your hands from getting dirty as a benefit. I think many union folks/ and regular left wing whackos are an easily excitable people.

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