Little town fighting to survive this attack by a lawless administration

And will keep fighting:

http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/town-wont-welcome-illegals-without-a-fight/?c...

This isn't going away. The American public has HAD it.

Locally, am waiting to hear something HONEST from Brown or Kaptur, because it is the Dems in congress pretending they can't act on this.

Or maybe I'm being too hasty... maybe Rep Kaptur and Senator Brown are planning to house some of these illegals -- in their OWN homes -- that are deliberately being shipped all over the country at taxpayer expense.... to small communities and farming areas.

Or maybe they will be shipped to cities like Detroit, Cleveland and Toledo. Oh, but wait -- head slap -- our disintegrating cities still vote Dem for the most part.

Well, failing that - maybe some of the illegals can bunk in with BO & MO's daughters. That would be the liberal, compassionate thing to do, right?

Right?

No votes yet

Kaptur owns something like five homes. As I remember, she bought two or three in the same neighborhood, and then bought two more, and had them moved near the other three. Sort of like a poor mans Hyannisport compound.

In a sense, this is human trafficking carried out by the U.S. government. Someone in Washington knew of -- and approved of -- 50,000 or so kids and teenagers being transported from Central America to the U.S. border via Mexico, and then allowing them to cross. And now our government is attempting to disseminate them across the country, for what I can only guess is an effort to make it easier for them to blend in or not attract widespread attention. If the feds are trying to dump a few hundred of them on Murietta, it's reasonable to assume they'd like to drop off about a thousand in a city the size of Toledo. This entire episode is bizarre. Even more bizarre is that a Democrat president who aids and abets flagrant violation of current immigration law expects Republicans to take him seriously when he calls for "reforming" immigration law. Why reform a set of laws he is not going to enforce anyway? Maybe we should just give up and send our own kids and grandkids to the Canadian border.

Patience is a great virtue.

They should take them to Detroit. Those kids could clean the place up.

MikeyA

Either you're trolling or you're on drugs, Don.

What the fuck is Obama supposed to do about the troubles in Central America? INVADE THE PLACE?

If Obama talks about doing ANYTHING down there, he's a big government spender and foreign interventionalist, and if he does anything without the approval of Congress, he's a lawless dictator who wipes his ass with the Constitution.

If he does nothing, then he's a do-nothing empty suit failed excuse of a "leader".

Never mind that he can't both be a do-nothing empty suit failed excuse of a "leader" AND an evil dictator who ignores the rule of law and does whatever he wants AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME, unless somehow Obama's obtained magical quantum superpowers

You've fallen for the GOP talking points again, and they've got their base and the media so thoroughly whipped as to ignore the inherent conflict/contradiction from the GOP talking from both sides of their mouths.

Of course, we could take a look back at history and see how much we played around down that way too. Panama, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Granada, ... I seem to recall something about Contras, as in IRAN-CONTRA. That whole area has been the CIA's playground for decades. I figure the people coming here took one look at Iraq and figured that since we can break that country and are apparently responsible for making it right, they might as well demand their share of reparation for us breaking their countries too.

Funny how we can spend TWO TRILLION DOLLARS to fuck around in Iraq and Afghanistan yet for the life of us we can't figure out how to make things better in Central America and Mexico so we don't have everyone and their little sister running for our border.

So, oh great Don Wert, let's hear your great plan to deal with the problem. What's it gonna be, a couple billion more to put up a taller fence? More patrols? Building catapults along the border to launch the illegals back over the fence with?

Build the F-word Wall!

It's true, you hold stock in companies that make ladders and shovels and walls and just want your socialism at one remove. It's just wrong when that government money goes to people who aren't you.

As usual, AC, you're flailing about in trying to defend the U.S. administration. Only you could attempt to link Sandinistas and Saddam to 50,000 young illegals being allowed to enter the country. I'm a bit surprised you didn't toss in U.S.-caused climate change in Central America as the reason for the children's northern migration. As far as Obama being a foreign interventionalist, that's impossible when one takes action on his own side of the border. That is, use all uniformed personnel at your disposal, including the military if necessary, to prevent the breaching of the southern border. Then politely inform Mexico that the kids are its problem.

Patience is a great virtue.

Oh please. The moment Obama would deploy the military, you'd be on here along with all your Teabagger friends claiming Dictator Obama's using the military inappropriately and he'll just turn them around and round up all the Teabag militias that are down there and send them to the FEMA re-education camps.

You lost the ability to demand anything from Obama the minute you guys started going on about how he's an empty suit non-leader and then flip-flopped to how he's an evil lawless dictator so you could try to have your cake and eat it too.

The only things Obama could do that you'd approve of are resign or die quietly.

You have a talent for making a lot of erroneous assumptions, AC.

Patience is a great virtue.

You have a talent for making a lot of erroneous assumptions, AC.

Patience is a great virtue.

DW, he has ALL the answers, doesn't he? But, I did too, when I was his age.

If Obama talks about doing ANYTHING down there, he's a big government spender and foreign interventionalist, and if he does anything without the approval of Congress, he's a lawless dictator who wipes his ass with the Constitution.

If he does nothing, then he's a do-nothing empty suit failed excuse of a "leader".

Never mind that he can't both be a do-nothing empty suit failed excuse of a "leader" AND an evil dictator who ignores the rule of law and does whatever he wants AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME

How dare you talk about President Obama like that.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

You're the one who parrots that shit, I'm just pointing out how you are too stupid to catch the inconsistency and contradiction and thus are being played by the Kochs and others who are making millions off rubes like yourself. Tell us, how much have you made in political contributions in the past few years?

The blending strategy seems to work well, considering that's exactly what they did with the Section 8 horror.

We've already been divided, then subdivided. We're a conquered people. There is no solution but to watch it all collapse.

His statement, "There is no solution but to watch it all collapse."
Ronald Reagan, if he could still do so, and I disagree.

right, you just can't see it. Just like you think because the DOW went to 17.000 everything is just peachy. Did you forget the GDP is -2.9

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

17 of those quarters. The net increase is 39.3%. I will predict that the second quarter of the calendar year 2014 will show an increase. In case you were living in a cave somewhere during the first quarter of this calendar year, we had a little weather problem which negatively affected the economy.
DUH!
In addition, the unemployment rate has dropped from a peak of 10.0% in October, 2009, and is now 6.1%! Remember, conservatives like you predicted that if Obama would be re-elected, unemployment would never get much below 10%.
As a comparison, under W, the GDP fell for EACH OF THE LAST 5 QUARTERS of his Presidency consecutively. W inherited an unemployment rate of 4.2% in January, 2001, and left office with an unemployment rate of 7.8%. THAT was the economy the Obama Administration inherited.

Unlike Obama, Clinton seen the errors of his ways and changed course. And you believe the rate is really 6.1 % did you consider part timers. If so you would have a higher %

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Clinton at least knew how to compromise. We don't have to worry about that now, with Mr. My way, or the highway in office.

That's right, as soon as we get Boehner out we'll be better off.

Oh you don't mean Boehner?

Well, then, Ted "Filibuster The Government Closed" Cruz.

Reality would like to point out that apparently Republican "compromise" is Boehner getting 98% of what he wants in a bill. Who shut down the government again? Who refused to hold a vote on a clean bill from the Senate?

Take your faked Fox News talking points and shove them.

Go shove it yourself!

Thanks for agreeing with me that it's the GOP who refuse to compromise. After all, they CAN'T because YOU will call them all RINOs and fire them in the next election. Even if they get 98% of what they want, they can't be seen working with Obama now since they're doubly painted into a corner by their rhetoric.

He's painted himself into a corner. The RINOS? They're going THIS election. This whole thing centers around a Fence. The president has one around his temporary house, but we can't? Only a fool would make any kind of deal, with the most incompetent inhabitant the White House has ever had. All he has to do, is give up the fence, which HE won't compromise on.

Oh yes, putting up a 30' high fence makes sense because no illegals are gonna come along with, you know, a couple 31" ladders. Or a pile of shovels to dig UNDER it.

This is why you're a fucking moron. You sure do love that government spending on stupid, wasteful projects. Are you a contractor and/or do you own stock in such industries? You keep refusing to answer that question so I'm assuming yes.

How about we build a huge moat that's 50 feet deep and put sharks with frickin' "LASER" beams on their heads in it too, maybe that'll work better than your stupid fucking fence.

Matter of fact, if YOU'RE so goddamn concerned about them damn stinky brown people, why oh why haven't YOU grabbed your gun collection and joined the "citizen militias" down there who are "patrolling the border"? It's almost as if you are lazier than you accuse Obama of being!

You refused to answer a few questions you were asked lately, so I'll assume the answers to them are "yes", too.

Actually, those questions were answered in another comment elsewhere, but I refrained from pointing that out because it was hilariously amusing drawing out all your misplaced anti-gay attacks just so you could willfully and wantonly expose your homophobic self to everyone and thus further undermine any kind of respect any new member would have for you.

Thanks for playing into my hands again, you idiot. You guys make it so easy.

No, the queries were not answered.

Oh yes they were. You're just too lazy and stupid to look for it.

A C says " You sure do love that government spending on stupid, wasteful projects" Right like Obama getting ready to ask for over 3 billion to take care of his immigration problem, where he will waste 60 cents of every dollar. How do you ask for over 3 billion to fix a problem you allowed to happen. Whose the effing moron, maybe you.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

You are certainly free to disagree.

It just doesn't matter, however. You are part of the system of collapse.

And to be blunt, so am I. After all, I'm wise enough to know that it's difficult to predict an outcome while not working to make it true. I've given up on American society. Just in the practice of waiting for it collapse, it helps it collapse. After all, I'm seeing to my own needs, not collective needs.

You're just a far more active mechanism in that collapse. When Ike said that "[e]very gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed", he perhaps unintentionally pointed out that every pension check we cut to people like you, does the same thing.

His view is antithetical to that of the ever optimistic Ronald Reagan (and me).

Or we could just annex Mexico. Suddenly we have a much smaller border to patrol, we then don't have to worry about NAFTA taking our jobs away. And we don't have to fight cartels outside our borders, we can arrest them on RICO cases.

MikeyA

We already stole half of Mexico in the Mexican War 1846-48.
Talk about a war of conquest!

You know the main reason why Texas wanted its independence so much from Mexico? Mexico outlawed slavery, and banned the importation of slaves. The white Texans wanted to preserve the right to own other people! So, they called their slaves "indentured servants" who were either indentured for life, or who "owed" so much money, they could never pay it back in one lifetime. Finally, the white Texans got tired of this sham situation and occasional harassment from the Mexican authorities, and fought for their independence, so that they could keep those of African ancestry from having their own independence.
The election of 1844 was a referendum on "Manifest Destiny." James Polk campaigned on this theme. He was willing to go to war for Texas and for what was then known as the "Oregon Territory," which included what is now the states of Oregon and Washington, and part of Idaho, along with a big chunk of British Columbia and part of Alberta. Upon his election, Polk compromised with powerful Britain and took only about 1/2 of the Oregon Territory, but looked for an excuse to go to war against a much weaker foe, Mexico. After our forces entered Mexico City, we forced the government there to sign away about half of Mexico; what are now the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, along with parts of Utah, Colorado, and Nevada. There is some historical irony in the growing Hispanic populations in these states.

Lands acquired during war are not "stolen".

If that's the case then I can say that Israel stole the Golen Heights and the Gaza Strip.

Additionally the Polk administration tried diplomacy, to buy the lands they wanted, with the Mexican gov't first and was rebuked. Mexicans clearly wanted a war with the US. Also in the War for Mexican Independence Many American settlers in the disputed territory that is now Texas (US had a sizable stake to it with the Louisiana Purchase). Prior to the War for Mexican Independence, Spain had only colonized what is today New Mexico and after the war most of the settlers there and they were outnumbered by Indians.

Mexico ceded Texas, and the rest of what is now the SW in the Treaty of Guadalupe. In that the US agreed to pay money to Mexico while it kept the lands it acquired in the war.

Stolen I think not.

MikeyA

The land was stolen at the point of a gun...PERIOD!

Please do NOT equate what a growing, already quite large nation like the United States did for Manifest Destiny, with what tiny Israel does just to survive. You're way off base with that stance.

It doesn't matter-we got it, and we're going to keep it.

I know how ideologues HATE statistics, but here I go again. According to the 2012 estimates by the U.S. census bureau:
Arizona -- 30.2% Hispanic
California -- 38.2%
Colorado -- 21.0%
Nevada -- 27.3%
New Mexico -- 47.0%
Texas -- 38.2%
Utah -- 13.3% (New Jersey, New York, and Illinois are actually higher at 18.5%, 18.2%, and 16.3%.)
Interesting...New Mexico is earning that name, I guess.

Ok then prove it.

I can cite where the US offered to pay for it before the war and where it paid for it after the war.

MikeyA

If Canada offered to pay us for North Dakota, how would we react?
Really, Mikey. That's not a good argument.

I will give you an actual example.

Vermont. Lots of people have moved to or live in Vermont who want to be a part of Canada. Do you actually care if Vermont became a part of Canada? If Canada is willing to compensate I'd say sure, let them have it.

At the time of the Mexican War there were by far more expatriated Americans living in Mexico than Mexicans.

Nothing is fair in love and war. Mexico was offered money and turned it down. Mexico was more fervent in want for war than the US was. We obliged them and beat them. They were still compensated.

You still ignore my question. Should Israel give up the Golan Heights and Gaza Strip? How about Jerusalem?

Convenient you'd skim over those questions.

MikeyA

AC's president already suggested Israel go back to 1967's borders.

So what you're saying is that Obama isn't your President and therefore you are a domestic terrorist and traitor who refuses to recognize the Federal government? Good to know, you America-hating son-of-a-bitch.

We're going to have to start calling you "stretch" "If this-therefore that" .

You'll have to take that title away from Mikey. He won't be happy.

Are you mad at me? Was it something I said? I'm sorry.

AC fails to understand logical thinking. If only his teachers in school hadn't failed him so badly.

MikeyA

I understand logic fine. You conservatives just don't use it. See also how Obama is simultaneously an evil lawless dictator yet is an empty suit and a failed leader. Or how he's simultaneously a communist, socialist, fascist, and a do-nothing.

Submitted by AnonymousCoward on Thu, 2014-07-10 07:43. "See also how Obama is simultaneously an evil lawless dictator yet is an empty suit and a failed leader. Or how he's simultaneously a communist, socialist, fascist, and a do-nothing".
I have noticed A C has,
Now the same opinion as some of the rest of America about Obama. I mean just because a lot of Dems are abandoning him, doesn't mean you have to. You have stood by him all this time, YOU HYPOCRITE.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

Might I point out the flaw in your so-called thought process?

Pointing out that you are being inherently self-contradictory in your attacks on Obama is not defending Obama, nor is it standing by Obama.

If you claim water is wet, then claim water is dry, then my pointing out that it cannot be both is not defending water.

Logic, how does it work?

Israel is an extremely tiny nation surrounded by much larger, much more populous predatory nations and groups who want to wipe it out. While I often bow to your military expertise, you need some more education in the areas of history, geography, and diplomacy, Mikey. Just look at what has happened in the past 48 hours!
Any comparison between Israel and the United States, even back in the 1840s, is ludicrous on its face! Israel is fighting for its very survival, and yet, Israel would give up almost all territories gained via war since the 1950s if, AND ONLY IF, Israel's existence would be recognized by all the Muslim-dominated nations in the Muddle East, and other major Muslim organizations.

BTW, Mikey -- Apparently, you are not aware that Israel gave up control of all of the Gaza Strip in 2005. Israel even forced about 9000 Israeli citizens to leave Gaza.
As far as the Golan Heights is concerned, it would be near national suicide for Israel to give up this strategic site. Yet, I would bet that Israel would do so for total recognition of Israel's right to exist, and a GUARANTEE of Israeli existence. And with the chaos in Syria and Iraq right now, it's a very good thing that Israel still has a strong military presence in the Golan Heights! Do you not agree?

So your answer is to be found somewhere between " almost all ", and some sort of guarantee? Who should Israel get this "guarantee" from? The U.S.? Should a bunch of treaties be signed, and with whom? What exactly, is a treaty with Islamic terrorists worth? Another "peace in our time" moment? A small patch of territory isn't worth jack shit, when nuclear weapons are in play. What raises a "guarantee" to the level of an "absolute guarantee", anyway? Israel has about 300 nuclear weapons--which is as close to a guarantee of existence as Israel is going to get. You don't REALLY believe Israel is stupid enough to fall for a bunch of empty promises from the likes of ISIS, al-quedda, Iran, and so on, do you?

Israel has already given up the entire Sinai Peninsula, which contains significant petroleum I might add, all of Gaza, nearly all of the West Bank Territory, all for peace. Argue with the Israelis, not with me.
If you believe this is the equivalent of "Peace in our time," you may be right. I will not argue that. I am merely pointing out what the official Israeli position has been for the past 60 years or so.

Israel is a tiny island of democracy surrounded by a sea of despotism. Most Muslims living in Israel have far better political, social, and economic lives than do the multitudes of Muslims living in the other Middle Eastern nations, with the exception of the few families or sects who dominate those countries, and suppress the multitudes.

OK so let me get this straight. You don't want me to compare Isarel to Texas even though we're talking about disputed lands acquired in a declared war by both sides? Riiiiiight.

Actually the Golan Heights quite resemble Texas. Mexico was clearly the aggressor and was attacking Americans who moved into Texas after the War for Mexican Independence. So... like the Golan Heights, Americans refusing to yield them afterwards and settleing on the Rio Grand as a natural border was an attempt to prevent further aggression.

Additionally, you condemn manifest destiny but you overlook that there were European powers who wanted to colonize California. The American race to the Pacific was partly a way to keep European colonization from expanding in the Western Hemisphere. Not the major reason but a partial reason.

I'm sorry Dale but the fact is when two countries declare war upon one another the lands seized a part of that war are not stolen. The Six Day War and Yom Kipper War lands were not stolen, neither was Texas. They both were a result of mutual aggression where one side was the victor.

MikeyA

What part of t-i-n-y confuses you?
ISRAEL IS T-I-N-Y!!
How tiny is Israel?
Israel is about 8000 Square miles. Ohio is almost 45,000 square miles. Texas is 268,000 square miles.
Syria, by itself, is over 71,000 square miles.
The United States did NOT need half of Mexico, what is now the entire U.S. Southwest, to survive as a nation. Israel is fighting for its very existence. There is no comparison between Israel today, and America's Manifest Destiny of nearly 200 years ago.
And, BTW Mikey, California was part of Mexico in the 1840s, AND there were Hispanic settlements all along the California Coast. Very few cities in California today that date from before 1850 do NOT have Spanish names!

Q -- When did the United States ever have to defend its major cities and/or population centers from Mexican attacks in the 1840s?
A -- Never.
No major U.S. population centers were close enough to be attacked by Mexican forces, not to mention the fact that the United States, even in the 1840s, was a more powerful nation than was Mexico.

Here's further proof that -- for Israel -- fighting is a matter of SURVIVAL, not merely taking desirable territory. Will Israel invade the entire Gaza Strip? Maybe.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/07/13/Israel-s-Iron-Dome-Cou...

"Q -- When did the United States ever have to defend its major cities and/or population centers from Mexican attacks in the 1840s?" Remember the Alamo, apparently you forgot.

Santa Ana, a dictator, attacked pushing those who were neutral in the favor of Texas independence from Mexico. Santa Ana took no prisoners and executed those he captured. http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qea02 Even writing it to President Jackson.

After the war the Rio Grand was agreed as the northern border of Mexico. https://www.tsl.texas.gov/treasures/republic/velasco-01.html The treaty also recognized Texas as independent as Mexican forces would not be allowed to cross the Rio Grande. It broke that after Texas chose to become a part of the U.S., something Texans wanted. and attacked US personnel... in 1845 https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/annexation/4july1845.html and http://www.mymexicanwar.com/battles/460425-thorton-affair.html

To the Texans, becoming a territory also was a matter of survival as Mexico broke it's treaty and refused to recognize the Texas government as valid. So to the Texans, the Rio Grande as a border was as much a matter of survival as the Golan heights are to Israel. Israeli's settling in the Gaza Strip is no different than US residents settling in Texas.

MikeyA

You proclaim that you like facts, so:
In the 1830s, San Antonio was a sleepy little village of no more than a few thousand people.
One city bombarded by Hamas, Ashod, has over 200,000 people!
Another such city, Dimona, has over 30,000 people!
Indeed, Hamas has stated that ALL Israeli cities are within its reach for rocket attacks!
The Battle of the Alamo was NOT fought by soldiers of the United States. It was fought by a handful of brave men, many of whom were Hispanic, for the independence of Texas. And the main reason why Texans wanted independence was because Mexico had made slavery illegal, and many slave-owning Texans were willing to fight, kill, and die for their independence to keep those of African background from enjoying THEIR independence!

Apparently, you don't read my posts thoroughly, since I already posted this fact. Israel forced ALL ISRAELI citizens to LEAVE the Gaza Strip in November, 2005!
Mikey -- Are you really buying in the left-wing garbage about the plight of the Palestinians, who refuse to leave refugee camps? Thousands of Palestinians HAVE LEFT those camps, and have become productive citizens of many Middle Eastern countries, INCLUDING ISRAEL! Those who refuse to leave, do so for political reasons.

You are taking an untenable position on this issue. Israel's existence is at stake every day, threatened by tens of millions of Muslims, most of whom see the Jewish State of Israel as a cancer which must be totally eradicated so that it cannot spread its malignancy further. Mexico in the 1840s was NO THREAT to the existence of the United States. Did I mention how TINY Israel is? Israel's Jewish population is a little over 6,000,000. Iran's population is over 75,000,000! Over 99% of them are Muslim. BTW -- over 1,500,000 Muslims live in Israel today, not including the lands held by Palestinians, including the Gaza Strip, which was unilaterally abandoned by Israel over 8 years ago!

Sheesh, Mikey!!

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