Union Thugs Get What's Coming To Them In Michigan Capitol

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What a great day in Lansing, Mi. Union represented State Troopers did what they get a union wage to do and pepper sprayed malcontents who can't stand the fact that the Republicans in Michigan have won the House and Senate and are pushing through legislation the voters demanded. Union thugs which represent a small percentage of Michigan workers, in fact the fewest since 1989, but they yell the loudest. This time they are not getting their way and tried storming the floor of the capitol while official business was being conducted. It's like your kid throwing a tantrum on the floor while you and other adults are talking. Here's the full story from the Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/NEWS06/121206059/Police-arrest-sev...

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http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121206/POLITICS02/212060434/House-passes-right-work-bill-Senate-debate-continues?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Using the same logic of the National Democrats, they won, get over it.

The GOP will hold control of both Houses of the legislature and the governorship. AND the union-friendly Proposal 2 went down... bad.

Now, the most union state in the country will become a little bit more business friendly.

At least wolfie can drive to this Capital and won't need to rely on a UAW paid for bus.

MikeyA

Michigan State Police say eight protesters have been arrested for disobeying lawful command, trying to push their way into Senate chambers.
Police sprayed chemical munitions into a crowd when it tried to rush the Senate floor, said Michigan State Police Inspector Gene Adamczyk.
“When several of the individuals rushed the troopers, they used chemical munitions to disperse the crowd,” he said. “It would be a lot worse if someone gets hurt and I failed to act.”
Absolutely no concern for other people apparently.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

I am one of those people who is forced to pay union dues, even though I don't belong to the union. It's extortion. The union, to whom I pay $600 a year in dues, hasn't negotiated a raise for us for 3 years. Under right-to-work, I wouldn't be forced to pay dues to an organization 1) that I don't choose to belong to and 2) who has done nothing for the members of its bargaining unit.

In your mind, if unions get pay increases for their members, that's bad. But if YOUR union does not get YOU a pay increase, that's also bad. Hmmm...

And exactly how much less than $600.00 a year do you think you'd be worth to your employer if there were no union where you work? You'd probably be making about 2/3 of what you now earn, and would be forced to pay more for your fringe benefits. Just look up what Walmart workers make, and how few of them receive benefits and at what price. That should give you an idea of what you'd be worth as an individual dealing with your management alone.

Right-to-work-for -less is great for Willard and his mega-millionaire friends. The idea that RTRFL translates into job creation is a total myth! Just how is the unemployment rate doing in those good right-to-work-for-less states like South Carolina and Mississippi? How about North Carolina, the new high tech magnet with all of those great universities? Guess what? Not only are all of their unemployment rates higher than we have in Ohio, they're all also higher than the rate in Michigan!!

More poverty for Michigan. Just look at the right to work states and their poverty/education rates. Michigan may have jobs but the pay will be so low that no one will afford anything. This was orchestrated for the usual out-of-state oligarchs who are cutting funding for the democratic party. When Dems can't get money from unions well then we all know where they go and it will be a sad day for the Middle class in America.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

I dunno where you're looking, exactly, but Michigan has buttloads of poverty as it is. Right-to-work means WORK. It's always better to work for less than to get thrown out of your job into this horrible labor market.

I used facts instead of opinion only to make a point. And I did this knowing full well how much ideologues hate facts. OOPS!

So your argument is that Right to work causes unemployment. That is what you've done by linking two facts to show a correlation. So I'm curious how you think they become linked because unions don't create jobs outside of themselves. I'm not assuming it's a cause/effect relationship .

Well let's look at the illiteracy rate the states you mention have high rates of illiteracy both currently and traditionally. According to this study http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx they are double that of Michigan (I use this study because it varies from source to source as the definition of "literacy" is subjective and the term "functionally illiterate" can skew results.

So I too can use a correlation with the data. So I would say all the states you cite have had historically worse education problems than Michigan for various reasons.

How about we compare Michigan and Ohio's to ND, Neb, and SD? Those are all RTW states as well.

MikeyA

The fact is, jobs fled the union states the most. Socialist, Communist and Unionist Ohio has been hit particularly hard. And all the Dales etc. of the world can tell us is: More unionization?

It's untenable. The employers have the upper hand. This is reality. The only way to stop them is to totally overturn property rights and make all property communal; all housing, all transportation, all buildings, all land, all tools, everything. That will make businesses flee our shores even faster. Dale and his pack of union thugs are so wrong, that it's painful to watch.

Let's forget about the union rights and consider the individual's right. Give just one reason why anyone should be forced to join and then pay a group that he/she had no part in forming, to attain legal work. If they wish to join after they get the job, they still can under right to work, in fact they can still pay union dues if they like. The pressure is now on the union to convince the worker that it has something to offer them. Is that what they are afraid of?, that they can't convince workers that they are stil viable and relevant?

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

I did NOT state that Right -To -Work-For- Less caused unemployment. THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE! I stated, "The idea that RTWFL translates into job creation is a total myth." I stand by those words. RTWFL does not "create" any jobs. It provides a formula for paying people who already have jobs, LESS FOR DOING THE SAME JOB!! Paying average workers less to so the same job, cutting back on their spending for needed commodities, creates an economic environment which MAY lead to more unemployment, not less.

As far as Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama having a higher rate of illiteracy than does Michigan (or Ohio), in the Mikey world, that's impossible. These RTWFL states also severely limit public employee unions, if not outlawing them directly. In such a Mikey Utopia, non-unionized teachers, being paid less than their union counterparts in other parts of the country, should be, by conservative thinking, more dedicated than those union teacher thugs who are only into the job for the money and fringe benefits and don't care about children at all. Why are so many people in a non-union world learning so little? This doesn't make Mikey sense!

Look...if the preponderance of these anti-union states were doing so much better than Ohio, I wouldn't have an intellectual leg to stand on. I did a study several months ago during an on-line debate about RTWFL and unemployment rates. At that time, there were almost exactly the same number of RTWFL states at or above Ohio's unemployment rate as there were RTWFL states with unemployment rates at or below Ohio's rate.

What this all says to me is quite simple. RTWFL is not the panacea for low employment that its proponents claim it to be. In fact, it's another case of the mega-millionaires pitting common folks against each other so that the mega-millionaires can further exploit them to make more mega-millions. Then, when anyone points out the truth, these same mega-millionaires and their elected minions claim that anyone criticizing them in this way is attempting class warfare. Guess what? The mega-millionaires have perfected how to win class warfare. They're champions of class warfare. Period. End of story.

Mikey -- you and others who are sincere conservatives are enabling these mega-millionaires who care only for your votes and your support, not for you as a person whatsoever. And if facts get in the way of your or their opinion, you flail around for other explanations. It's really quite sad.

You Socialists, Communists and Unionists always seem surprised to learn that there's a LABOR MARKET. That means wages will fall when the supply rises. That's the situation we have now, and for the foreseeable future, meaning decades into the future. Work for less, or become unemployed and destitute. There is no third option.

Dale,... you're not arguing that RTW does not lower unemployment NOR does it cause unemployment. YET.... as we've demonstrated through other threads with Hostess as an case study there is a time when wages probably should be lowered but the Unions fight it even if it means a loss of their own existence. AND... that is in a RTW state!

"As far as Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama having a higher rate of illiteracy than does Michigan (or Ohio), in the Mikey world, that's impossible." Actually no. I said not only do they have higher rates but they also "both currently and TRADITIONALLY" do.

"In such a Mikey Utopia, non-unionized teachers, being paid less than their union counterparts in other parts of the country, should be, by conservative thinking, more dedicated than those union teacher thugs who are only into the job for the money and fringe benefits and don't care about children at all." Actually no. But my point is there institute a school voucher program to allow those most at risk a better education... who's fighting it? Teacher's unions. It's not even being given a chance to succeed because of union intervention.

"Look...if the preponderance of these anti-union states were doing so much better than Ohio, I wouldn't have an intellectual leg to stand on." Well you conveniently left out the three states I mentioned. You cannot cherry pick the data. So despite your "study" you have already posted an intellectually dishonest argument because everything you cited was to show RTW states with higher unemployment and you did link the two metrics.

"RTWFL is not the panacea for low employment that its proponents claim it to be. The Hostess case study and the Louisiana school vouchers show the unions are willing to take arbitration to absurd extremes at the expense of workers and kids to only pad union coffers. Don't believe me? Hostess is being liquidated. That $600 union investment the workers made will pay off 99 weeks of unemployment benefits.

MikeyA

you want, you ignore the facts! Most Southern states have been RTWFL for decades! They are in non-union Mikey Utopia! The positive results in non-union Mikey Utopia simply aren't there to be proved! Really? Your best defense is that in these non-union Mikey Utopias high illiteracy rates are "traditional"? REALLY???

In Short:
You can't prove statistically that RTWFL lowers unemployment.
AND
You can't prove that non-union teachers do a better job than union teachers.

The rest of your post is obfuscation and rationalization.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121207/NEWS15/312070148/Right-to-work-legislation-speeds-ahead-in-Lansing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Great job Fred beating up the unions and most of the people who paid for you to sit behind a mic and repeat what other people say. What a skill. Well anyway as excited as you are don't stay up to late celebrating with your new girl friend, (give her a kiss for me) you have to get up early:)
Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

Thanks Willard, but by the time you posted this I've already put in 3 hours of work. I am a little curious though. How is it you were able to take a picture of this doll? Do you have one at home that you were able to pose for the photo, cause I didn't see any credit for it's use and that could set off another regular poster about copyright issues.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Fred we all know you got me deactivated at Toledo Talk why are you blocking me at the WSPD twitter and facebook sites? Does my postings not dovetail with your partisan message? I thought you were all about freedom of speech and Ron Paul. This is what you and your conservative overlords are all about, muzzle all opposition and take control of America. Screw the little guy.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

The poster obviously doesn't understand the way Twitter and Facebook work. People can be invited/followed or unfriended/not followed depending on the whim of the administrator of those particular sites. Your beliefs do not dovetail with my beliefs I think that's pretty obvious but I do not control the WSPD Twitter or Facebook accounts only my own personal Twitter and Facebook accounts neither of which I wish to see you on.
I don't understand why you believe the world is being deprived of your deeply held beliefs when its obvious you post here often, write the newspapers and post on their websites and could if you so desired start a blog site of your own for free.
Are you aware that the state you pay taxes to is now right to work?

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Whether I use the term deactivated, blocked, lost, blackballed or befriended, it all means the same Fred. You or your administrator do not take criticism well. This is a undemocratic problem you have Fred. There is no freedom in corporate American radio.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

How is it undemocratic poster? According to Dems we live in a democracy (we don't but that's not the point) and in a Democracy the majority rules. I guess a majority of the administrators (we have more than one) voted to deactivate, block, lose, blackball (racist term) or defriend you. You have no right to access a private website even if it is visible to the general public. This may piss you off but you have no recourse.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

He keeps saying this. I had it verified that he deactivated the account himself AFTER some of his comments were removed.

MikeyA

How did you "verify" it? With who?

I'll give you three guesses.

MikeyA

I figured as much . When you can't answer a simple question that means you have no answer.

Freel free to contact me via the contact page on here. Anyone please do.

I respect that individual and they asked me to not mention their dealings in the open forum.

MikeyA

Fred how many others has WSPD deactivate, blocked, blackball or defriended ? Why can't you just respond to the criticism instead of using such Stalinist tactics? Its not that I use profanity as is common on other sites. I ask probing questions that do not fit the extreme right wing agenda. Don't you think it healthy to have an honest give and take?

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Nice try Fred. My doll is a brunette! She has dark hair too!

Carpet matches the drapes?

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Yes as a matter of fact. I left her stock after I put a hole in my first one with a razor!

be against folks wanting to have a work place that is free to participate in !

Paying a criminal union TO WORK ?!

That is simply extortion because 99.99% of the stolen members dues is funneled to equally criminals in the job killing, net worth killing, home value killing Demonrat Criminal Party of AmeriKa.

Any of you puke Liberal radicals driven through the City, saved by Obozo lately ?!
Pray to God Almighty, that your UAW made junk doesn't break down in MO-TOWN BABY !!!

You will never make it out ALIVE !!!!

I believe unions are still necessary, although they badly need an overhaul.
That being said, they should be able to stand on their merits, not force workers to be members.

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

They aren't letting overhaul happen. As the Hostess example well shows, they'd rather go down in flames. In fact, in the private sector, unions have overwhelmingly done just that.

By the time your union tells you it's better to be unemployed, you should be calling for a union de-cert to get the f*ck rid of it. About 7500 morons from Hostess didn't do that, and paid the price. Well, maybe that's 7500 morons who have rich relatives or something. LOL!

Nobody made you join a union to deliver pizza right. What are you crying about?

Friend --

In just hours yesterday, extreme anti-worker lawmakers in Michigan bullied through right to work legislation. Right to work is WRONG!

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder, who just a few days ago said he didn’t support this attack on worker rights and safety, flip-flopped and will sign the law.

What is going on?

The Detroit Free Press reported yesterday the change agent was the Koch Brothers who are going to do everything they can to step on the rights and safety of working men and women.

Join the fight against the Koch Brothers and their legislative lackeys. Please go to our webpage at www.weareohio.com or our Facebook page and like us at http://action.weareohio.com/page/m/4b531d07/4a9363a9/36007de3/4a71dad5/3....

Follow our posts and share them with your Facebook friends. We need to keep workers in Ohio informed and engaged. We need to further grow our movement.

Michigan passed the law yesterday. Indiana passed a right to work (is WRONG) law last year. Our enemies are going to be emboldened here in Ohio so we have to spread the word. Our friends, family members, neighbors and co-workers need to understand that the so-called, trick-titled right to work is WRONG because it is an attack on workers’ rights and safety.

Please visit our website at www.weareohio.com and like We Are Ohio’s Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/weareohio so we can all communicate on a daily basis about threats to working and middle class families and how we can fight back.

If the Koch Brothers and their legislative lackeys target Ohio, we’re going to be ready because We Are Ohio!

Together

Dennis Willard
We Are Ohio Communications Director

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

"Worker rights and safety"? What effin' nonsense is that?

It's your right to deal with an employer yourself. Unions don't own any companies. If they did, they'd have to pay the owners. Therefore it's the natural right of a worker to not join a union, or join one, all on his own whim.

And, safety? What balderdash is that? There are a blizzard of safety rules imposed by OSHA and whatever state agency that mimics OSHA.

Dennis Willard must be a union thug.

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