U.S. credit rating downgraded again.

In a sane world, 0bama wouldn't get more than 10% of the vote.

Let's see, the fed is simply going to fire up the presses and run off billions and billions more dollars to artificially, temporarily, prop things up, (hopefully long enough to get past election day). How could that have a negative effect on the dollars value? (rolls eyes)

No votes yet

The fiscal profile of the United States federal government is a disaster. A downgrade was long coming, but for political reasons could not happen. And rating agencies have been totally corrupted, so they don't actually issue ratings at the time of the circumstances requiring a downgrade... they wait many years, to ensure that their clients (the entities being rated) gather up as many victims as possible, which means the armies of common investors like you. You know, the rubes. The suckers. The marks.

So back when the Bush administration was dropping taxes and then spending more and more, requiring massive borrowing, the credit rating of the United States should have dropped. And what Obama and the Democrats have done, pretty much put federal credit into a zone above junk securities. The corrupt ratings agencies won't reflect this truth for a long time.

Limbaugh said he is trying to save 2 jobs - his own and BO's.

Pumping printed bucks into this economy won't work. Bernanke knows this - or SHOULD know it. Inflation, if I'm guessing correctly, will put us on the road to $5.00 per gal. gasoline. But just barely enough lemmings will vote for BO, thereby tightening the noose around their own necks. And the economy will tank big time by sometime in 2013.

Just observing the stores in this area tells you that consumers are completely out of money (& trying to figure how they can cut back on medicine, clothes and food in order to fill their gas tanks. Here's what I saw (& continue to see) at just Meijers & Walmart - from the time the unemployment extensions ran out earlier this year. As soon as the extensions stopped, consumer spending stopped... on everything but bare basics. I have shopped the closest Meijers since it opened. Except for on-line shopping for shoes, I buy almost everything at Meijers, Walmart, K-Mart and Krogers. Kroger's is primarily food, so there are still crowds there. But Meijers, a very popular store - in the consumer goods sections (as opposed to food & pharmacy areas) - are like a HUGE GHOST TOWN. I saw almost NO parents shopping for school clothes this year. The teens AND adult clothes sections, which are usually pretty busy this time of year - NO-BODY THERE. It's one of the weirdest things I have seen in consumer shopping in my entire life. I know lots of people in this area who depended on the unemployment extensions just to survive the past 2-3 years. Most of them are still unemployed or under-employed and they are BROKE. So when I listen to the tv talking heads discussing how the American CONSUMER will have to rescue the economy - I know for sure we are headed for a major depression. The real American consumer HAS NO MONEY, and with $4 to $5 per gal. gasoline, something that Congress could alleviate by taking back control & regulation of the oil futures market -- consumers will be broke for the foreseeable future - for years to come.

In middle America - average working class and middle class people - CANNOT AFFORD ANY discretionary spending. All their money is going into their gas tanks and for other basics. You never hear or see this on MSM television, because those network employees, along with our government "servants" make huge salaries, and have no clue what's going on out here in the real world.

And yes, the rating agencies are "bought and paid for" - meaning corrupt. But the downgrades mean SOMEBODY knows just how dire of straits we are in. It's just that the dumbkopfs who vote Dem in Lucas County will fill up their gas tanks on November 5th, or so, and drive on November 6th to vote for the worst, most corrupt, administration this nation has every seen, and seal their own fates.

As to the election - here is what I personally THINK (could be wrong) might happen. I actually think Romney will win the popular vote. There are just barely enough awake Americans who now know that BO is a disaster in a million different ways. But the electoral college - which should have been abolished long ago - will allow BO to squeak through - and economically in this country, we are doomed. The silver lining being that this year and in 2014, conservatives will continue to be elected in larger numbers in Congress and elsewhere, and they will (one fervently hopes) make BO a lame duck prez from 2013 on. He can spend the next 4 years alternately whining and smirking to Scott Pelley and the rest of the lap dog media - but he will be de-clawed & de-fanged. Limbaugh is correct - if BO is re-elected, conservatives will aggressively take over the Republican party - and Boehner better be prepared to get in line,

So BO could win - but actually lose in terms of power - at the same time.

The other silver lining will (hopefully) be that the republican party will NEVER run another Dole-McCain moderate/liberal for president. (Get yourself ready, Rick Santorum, for 2016.) I wish Romney knew how to fight the insane Democratic party - but he just doesn't.

Uhm, Farmergal, a little quick correction here: Petroleum is a worldwide produced and consumed product. The USA may well be the single largest consumer of petroleum, but there's still no way the Congress can dictate the world-market price of such a commodity.

The US Congress has no control of Saudi Arabia, Canada, Russia and Venezuela.

Imposing some sort of tariff to effect price controls, will just cause foreign oil to avoid our shores. Plenty of other eager customers for it, worldwide.

... but not on the "oil is a commodity" argument (if I am reading your opinion correctly). I've been debating this "oil is a commodity" argument for almost 10 years online. Wish I had had Matt Taibbi's article/information years ago - because it traces the history and explains what CANNOT be condensed into one or two sentences. (See link below)

Matt Taibbi explains $4 per gal, when supply has exceeded demand, very clearly. I have posted this article at least 2 or 3 times, and will post it again and again. It has to be read and absorbed, with pre-existing ideas held in abeyance until the information is completely understood.


For one thing - read the part that says that the commodities market was "created" [note the word "created"] in large part to help farmers. Read the part where a Goldman Sachs connected concern SECRETLY got a good Depression era regulation changed, that had worked well for decades. Read where former Congressman Stupak indicates that people don't understand these facts because the facts can't be condensed into a 30-second sound bite.

Taibbi nails this topic, in this article, and elsewhere. But Stupak was right - I can't condense it on a blog, except to say PLEASE read this article to understand why gas is $4.00 per gallon. And to understand that this Depression era regulation COULD BE re-instated.

It says that the commodities market was "designed", not created (same diff).

Uh, what? Stating that oil is a commodity isn't an opinion. It's an observation, and an almost pointless one at that. Anything that's consumed worldwide but produced in only a few places, is a de facto commodity, subject to markets and manipulation and regulations and all that stuff. Air isn't a commodity, for instance. But oil is. So is iron. And PTFE plastic. Etc.

Oil also sits in a privileged place on the commodity tiers since it enables almost everything else that's traded in the world, regional and national markets. All shippable energy sources are: Oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear fuel, and electricity over wires.

The sad fact is that oil was so cheaply produced and was so energy dense in return, that it was like magic. The only magic the world has ever known. There are about 25000 man-hours of labor equivalent energy in a barrel of oil. Can you buy a man's labor for 12 years for the current barrel price of $100? Not even close. Even Third World laborers pretty much require $1000-2000 over that period. Oil beats everything; it beat all Human or animal labor, and as an energy source it beats all other sources because it had that magical triumverate of factors all at once:

- Dirt cheap.
- High energy density.
- Very practical to drill for, ship, refine and directly use.

So oil is ridiculously cheap in real terms. Criminally cheap. Each gallon of gasoline (a major petroleum distillate like diesel and kerosene (jet fuel)) could be $40 and we'd still be doing pretty well with it. The difference with today is that we couldn't keep driving a 1.5-2 ton vehicular machine around town just to transport a 150lb person and 15lb worth of cargo. THAT ridiculous waste of energy will stop.

Once we critically deplete petroleum, the real stance of Humanity will re-assert itself. You won't leave the 20-mile radius from where you were born. 99% of the food you eat will be locally grown (and 50% of that will be grown yourself). Empires and nations will be distant concepts. You'll be good with your hands. Families and neighbors will be the most important things to you, or you'll be dead. Etc.

Neither do lots of experts in the field.

Be that as it may, my point was that the "commodities market" is something that was "designed" or created for a specific purpose - the purpose NOT being to then create an intangible betting casino situation which inflates oil prices unnecessarily. "Futures" are NOT commodities.

Here is the main part of Taibbi's article that it seems you are completely ignoring:

"All that changed in 1991 when, unbeknownst to almost everyone in the world, a Goldman-owned commodities-trading subsidiary called J. Aron wrote to the CFTC and made an unusual argument. Farmers with big stores of corn, Goldman argued, weren’t the only ones who needed to hedge their risk against future price drops — Wall Street DEALERS who made BIG BETS on oil prices also needed to hedge their risk, because, well, they stood to lose a lot too.
THIS WAS COMPLETE AND UTTER CRAP — the 1936 law, remember, was specifically designed to maintain distinctions between people who were buying and selling real tangible stuff and people who were trading in paper alone."
(emphasis mine)

"Neither do lots of experts in the field."

Uh, I just proved that it is, hence I just proved all those experts are wrong, wrong, wrong. You get 12 man-years of labor-equivalent out of a barrel of petroleum, for about $100. You can't even buy 12 years of labor from a Third World farmhand for $100, much less your cheapest neighbor's teenaged kid.

Petroleum will become 10 times the price in 2012 dollars, and that will still make it about as cheap as a Third World farmhand. That's appropriate pricing. Energy isn't free.

The problem with your "experts" is that they are nothing of the sort. They are "cornucopians", compromised by their need for a Western sort of society where energy is wasted in vast loads, obtained from fossil fuels that obviously will run bone dry in a very foreseeable future.

I stand amazed even today that people who acquire technical degrees can't make the easy mental conclusion that energy is required to make anything happen, and that entropy runs the universe, hence energy supplies are limited and can be used up. And fossil fuels are another step entirely in defining limits. Much of the world's economic petroleum reserves will be exhausted in 35 years, at our mix of current rate of consumption with the hard numbers of the declining rate of discoveries. That's literally all we'll get. By 2045 or so, Americans will simply have to stop commuting in 2-ton cars. There just won't be any oil available to do that, at prices that allow such activities to happen. America must grind to a "halt", meaning we have to return to the pre-oil world, except we'll have pervasive bicycle infrastructure this time. (Obviously that's not a halt, but for most of our economy, it will seem like it. Pizza deliveries? No, those will halt. All stupid energy-wasting stuff like that will stop... but you'll still need to farm your own food, work your own crafts, etc.)

As for commodities, I already folded their manipulations into the argument. I know markets are manipulated. They always are. That's not the point. The point is by the time you and I die, our petro-economy will be almost dead. That has nothing to do with market manipulation. That has everything to do instead with supply. There's nowhere near enough supply to keep 310 million Americans chewing through 20% of the world's oil production each year. Over 2 billion Chinese and Indians are queuing up to consume oil exactly like we do. Petroleum is doomed and all petro-culture is doomed.

"Much of the world's economic petroleum reserves will be exhausted in 35 years"
Politicians and their "scientists" have been telling us that we'll be out of oil in 35 years since the 1950's. Lets see, 1950 to 2012, how many years is that? 62 to be exact. So by their predictions, we should be getting ready to run out for second time pretty soon.
The peak oil theories are exactly the same as global warming from the 90's and the new ice age from the 70's, scare tactics brought on by the political class to scare us into giving them more control over our lives, our economy, and our energy consumption. Why do you think the federal government buys up any land that oil discoveries are made on? Control. And why do you suppose we started to let them? fear. All you have to do is follow the funding source for these "scientific studies" to realize the truth. Government funded scientists are very convient to the feds because they are basically paid to give a pre-determined result that the feds can use to their advantage.
And sadly, it works every time.

The fruits of MY labor are not a social commodity.

Very well put.

Widowmaker, the US domestic petroleum production peak was successfully predicted almost to the year by Mr Peak Oil himself, Hubbert. Today, the major fields across the world are at half production despite maximum efforts at pumping, pressurizing, cajoling and of course some voodoo.

Can you tell me precisely why you're implying petroleum is in an infinite supply? The facts of petroleum geology state quite clearly that petroleum is extremely limited in terms of ore bodies.

World peak discoveries occurred in the 1960s. We find new fields at about half the rate, since then. A "major" find now is a few billion barrels, which is only enough to supply world consumption for, oh gee, 22 days.

World oil production peaked in 2005/6 at 90 million barrels or so, daily. We've been plateauing there ever since. So we reached Peak Oil for sure... noting well that Hubbert's peak was about PRODUCTION.

So from latest numbers and maximum efforts, the 35-yr countdown began in the mid 2000s. We maxed out. That's why the price of oil just kept going up. It must continue to go up. The long-term vector is UP... because the real long-term reserves number is DOWN. And reserve additions are going to be in deeper places, colder places, places located under quite a bit of ocean, and in general places where it gets far more expensive to exploit the deposits.

Petroleum geology is your friend. Stop wallowing in rightwing ignorance. Anger over previous failed predictions hardly has any bearing when you're supposed to make use of the prevailing data to re-predict. Humans are supposed to be forward-looking.

So, because I disagree with your hero-worship of government funded chicken little technocrat Hubbert and all of the other big brother "scientists" that dupe the sheeple into handing over their liberties, that makes me some ignorant right-winger. I don't trust government, no matter which wing of the warfare/welfare party is in control of it. So why would I trust their numbers? You want to be a gullible big brother trusting moron, be my guest. As for me, I'll pass.
Have a good day.

The fruits of MY labor are not a social commodity.

Hubbert used his data to successfully predict the U.S. production peak, almost to the year. That's not worship; it's acknowledgment of proven fact. In addition, major producers are now only doing about half of their peaks (USA., Saudi Arabia, Russia). Many decades of data trump your depressingly stupid ideology.

You still haven't answered why you believe petroleum is in an infinite supply. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting.

"You still haven't answered why you believe petroleum is in an infinite supply"
That's because I never stated this. These are words you put in my mouth. I simply don't buy into the chicken little scare tactics of the government. How much oil is there? I don't know. But when the government wants to control something, they trot out a gang of scientists that are paid to give a certain result, and whip people into a panic. If not trusting the government makes me stupid, then I guess someone who believes their fudged numbers is some kind of fucking genius.

The fruits of MY labor are not a social commodity.

"That's because I never stated this."

No, you implied it when you doubted that petroleum can reach peak production, followed by decline, just like with every other mined or pumped resource, ever.

There's only so much petroleum. That's a physical fact. Once you accept that, then it only logically follows that there's a production peak. And Hubbert nailed that almost to the year. In further fact, the U.S. production peak of 1971 is what sparked the OPEC "crisis", since we could not produce more in order to fight their sudden price increases.

Petroleum is facing such steep production declines (where major world fields are at half their peaks) that the world is gearing up to actually fight over access to arctic drilling rights. Russia has already made blatant moves on this. Google it. And then there's the American occupation of the oil fields of the Middle East. Oh yeah, let's not wipe that from our minds either.

Since nations are willing to go to war over oil like this, the physical seriousness of petroleum depletion is real.

that anyone this married to a set of false theories (or disinformation) has to be connected in some way to the oil industry? For myself, once anyone starts pretending that "futures" are the same as actual tangible goods, and also pretends to not understand the casino nature of all of this - I stop pretending that the oil company employee is rational. Their income, after all depends upon their not admitting the truth.

One interesting little item - Remember when gas just recently spiked to $3.99 per gal locally? When the spikes catch me snoozing, the first thing I do (after seeing BP raise the price - they are always first) is drive to Circle K and Meijers to see if they have followed suit yet. Well, it was a Monday, if memory serves, when BP spiked the price. All of the other stations (ALL of them) not only didn't raise their prices, but had been in the process of lowering them the previous few days. So I saw the $3.99 BP price, drove to Circle K, and got my tankful for $3.65. Neither they nor Meijers had been notified yet of the price rise. So here is my question(s): HOW DID BP KNOW THAT ONE OF OUR EMBASSIES WAS GOING TO BE ATTACKED THE DAY BEFORE IT WAS? And if BP (British Petroleum) knew on Monday that something bad was going down on Tuesday - how likely is it that BO and his crew of keystone cops did not know?

GZ, welcome to the Right Wing! LOL

I have your RW Pin and your REAGAN FOREVER! bumper sticker. We can't give you your "Official 1%" certificate, Chik-fil-A franchise, and stock portfolio until after the ceremony and we teach you the secret handshake.

Interesting note on the certificate. It's made of a premium blend of rare trees from the rain forest and the puppies and it was all paid for by cuts to Head Start lunches!


I've always wanted to join the VRWC. I hear you also get a badge. All Fascists hand out badges, right? LOL!

"You never hear or see this on MSM television, because those network employees, along with our government "servants" make huge salaries, and have no clue what's going on out here in the real world."

You recall Romney's latest gaffe, right? He claimed the middle income of the nation was $200K to $250K. His handlers (poor bastards) tried to cover for that by claiming the candidate meant household income, not individual income. Too bad for both the candidate and his handlers that the truth is much otherwise: Median household income in the USA is about $50K ($32K for Toledo) (2011 number). The bottom 90% of individual incomes don't even exceed $109K (2007 number).

Guys like Romney, his handlers and the media are involved in urban, coastal areas, where most of the nation's wealth is. So they probably do see "middle class" pulling down $200K and then extrapolate to the rest of us. Sadly, they can't see that the coastal urbies are rich, rich, rich. (Admittedly, they'd be richer if they stopped spending so enormously. Cab rides? Private schools? These should be for real rich people only.)

At any rate, our candidates are coastal urbies, and as far as they're concerned, other than stamping around every 2 years during campaigns, they don't leave the areas of LA, Washington, Dallas, Tampa, Chicago, NYC and the like. We're literally nothing to them, which explains why all their policies (D or R) end up screwing the real middle class working person. And then they come around during elections and lie to our faces about how concerned they are for us.

And most of those in Congress KNOW they are "screwing" us when they do it.

I used to get through to C-Span frequently (call-in programs) in pre-internet days when a lot of attention was paid to these call-in programs. I got through to Mitch McConnell [this has to be back in the early to mid 1990's], and made the mistake of making a statement rather than phrasing it as a question. I said, what voters don't understand is why you guys do not act on what you know a majority of voters are wanting you to do. Since I hadn't phrased it as a direct question, he just looked at the camera and smirk-smiled. He made NO comment. I haven't been able to stand him since. It told me all I needed to know about RINOS in particular.

Prior to the Tea Party movement, jerks like McConnell and Boehner could just surf along, defying the very people who vote them into office. They are political hacks, rather than representatives of working or middle class Americans. The Tea Party is making that a little more difficult. McConnell, it should be remembered, did everything he could to defeat Rand Paul.

The Romney and Ryan plan blows open the deficit even further. Over the 10 years Romney promises $5 trillion in tax cuts, $2 trillion in more military spending and promises not to cut SS and Medicare. How does this fix the budget?

Calling it a "plan" is like me claiming my colander is a "bucket". Anything with that many holes, isn't serving its purpose.

Of course their colander isn't suited to the purpose of bailing things out. It's only going to be used to give the rightwing middle class something to froth the water and make themselves feel better, but that water is going to rise inexorably from around their knees to their waists.

The sad irony is that the slow drowning of the middle class will happen even if Obama is re-elected. He obeys the bankers like Romney obeys the bankers. Look at what the Fed just did: They openly penned a decision to have the government back $40 billion in newly worthless mortgage-backed securities each month, indefinitely. Today it's almost certain that a mortgage originates by means of Fannie or Freddie. There is no real private mortgage market anymore. As I predicted it (albeit not HOW I predicted it), the collapse of the housing bubble produced a nationalization of housing.

We're going to get the same sort of defective economic policy set for the next 4 years in the federal government, guaranteed, since 98% of the voting nation will only select the leading candidates. After that, it's extremely likely that there will be another 4 years of the same. Americans are too dumb to fix this.

I highly recommend the book The Amature as must reading for every American (well, at least for those Americans who, in spite of a poor government/union-run public school education, still learned to read). Written by a author who has a liberal background, he relays facts about Obama's background and the basis for Michelle's hatred towards whites.

Interestingly, the title of the book, The Amature, is taken from Bill Clinton's description of Obama.

After reading the book, things like the multiple downgrades of the U.S. debt rating become less surprising.

It's in book? It must be true.

I recemmend the classic Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations

"You never hear or see this on MSM television, because those network employees, along with our government "servants" make huge salaries, and have no clue what's going on out here in the real world."

LOL, Like you know whats going on in the real world, you Rush Limbaugh sock puppet.
Quit posting that right wing bullshit you cut and paste and go organize your grocery coupons.

will ruin America ?!

HA !

There is no way on God's Green Earth, that anyone can ruin American, so quickly and so suddenly , as Obammy and the Fascist Dimwits have !

It is virtually impossible to do a better job of wrecking a once prosperous Nation , as this heathen jackass and his job killings Dims,has !

PROOF REQUIRED ? America, was Number One, when Obumbler took office as the Most Competitive Economic Nation, in the World !

3.5 short net worth killing years later, we are Number SEVEN !!!!

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