Issue 5

I agree that something neede done about the public sector employee's and some of the perks they get. Many people in the private sector had to take big cuts in pay and benefits just to keep their jobs. My question is did Gov. Kasich try to take away too much with issue 5? It is my understanding that after enough signatures were collected to put the issue on the ballot to let the people vote on it, he wanted to meet with the people opposed to issue 5 to compromise all of a sudden. It seems the big sticklng point for the public employee's is collective bargining. Couldn't it be set up for the public employee's to take say a 10% pay cut, pay more towards their health care and do away with pension
contributions and still keep the collective bargining part of it? Let everyone share the pain equal. Is/was this feasable?

No votes yet

The unions need to be completely dismantled outright. Gone...forever.

Absolutely. The unions could not face the truth of their endemic failure to apply to the modern economy, and facing then dissolution, they largely fled into the public sector.

We have no particular means of destroying them within the private sector, and that's appropriate. If businesses can still run profitably with unions, then it is no longer a citizen's concern. But the public sector issue is enraging. During a so-called labor negotiation, there are not two sides to the table. The managers are not negotiating with their own money in mind. The taxpayer needs to be on one side of that table, and he's routinely excluded. Hence, the government officials have signed away billions and billions of our money to these union thieves.

People talk about SB5 as if they lost a "right". That claim is totally false and I formally call all people who make that claim to be goddamned LIARS. All that was lost was the legal ability to force the government employer to accept the results of arbitration. Notice well that nobody under employment has the "right" to force an employer to accept labor terms and demands outside of the basics covered by federal law (i.e. work for pay, minimum wage, safe workplace practices, etc.). You never have the natural right to force an employer to give you 5% more pension pickup or health insurance premium coverage.

In short, unions could always collectively bargain, since THAT is a natural right. And they still have that right. But the key thing is that the government no longer has to listen to such blather, which is ALSO a natural right.

The "loss" represented by SB5 is actually the rightful return of a sane economy as an expression of natural law. The employer owes you pay for work, and other than workplace safety, he pretty much owes you nothing else. Once Wisconsin's and Ohio's adjustments rose in the law, it became morning in America. And so it should continue. And then we'll work on the next step, which means totally destroying public unionization as the disgusting thievery that it really is.

The right question is to turn off the right wing bull shit and ask yourself why I can't have what the public sector has been able to hold on to. The private sector bought into the nonsense and they have suffered. To bring all worker down to subsistence employment is just plain showing your stupidity. Think about who has benefited from all this globalism and antiunion rhetoric? Its not the average worker who is being played by media concentration of all types telling us what to believe while they take away our defined benefit pensions, our living wage jobs, and our social security. George Carlin says it best with this video!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

You assume that LN is listening to "right wing" radio. How do you know that? Because he has an opinion that isn't bought and sold by a union?

"The right question is to turn off the right wing bull shit and ask yourself why I can't have what the public sector has been able to hold on to." What did the public sector hold on to? Does the government and thus the public sector get what the people allow or do they get to take what they want? That is the issue at hand with Issue 2.

I'd recommend reading the pamphlet Common Sense by Thomas Paine.

We're being repressed!

MikeyA

You people just don't understand markets.

You can't actually "bring all workers down to subsistence employment" since in doing so, you destroy your customer base. Eventually businesses will have to realize that. Sure, many will resist until they have to realize that through bankruptcy and auction. But those who abide by all this, will come out on top, and the generational change will produce a better class of businesses.

In the meantime, as a worker bee, your task is to become frugal, meditative and observant. Note well that many workers are not doing that, so we come back to what's always been the problem with personal finance and government budgeting: It's not a problem of a fall in income, but a vast rise in expenses.

In short, when times were "good", Americans just didn't save any money, and neither did government work down its debts. So all those should suffer for their stupidity. Stupid people and organizations should suffer, until they learn. After all, if there's no consequence for stupidity, then it will only grow in society until a truly terrible catastrophe results, like a Greatest Depression or a release of a super-virus or a civil war on Mexico's current scale.

It's Ohio Issue 2

When the item was in the state legislature it was Senate Bill 5

 photo noe_zps3fb56247.jpg

Well it seems that wall street (who really "runs" the country), is having everything go as planned. Create two opposing groups, the so called right and left, and have them go after each other tooth and nail, while the suits in the highrise laugh their asses off and watch their wealth grow while the middle class disappears. What a great plan.

I personally find it hard to believe that "wall street" which is a collection of hundreds of businesses with thousands of employees were able to successfully collude to divide the country.

Divisive politics is an American tradition and goes all the way back to Adams/Jefferson, Hamilton/Madison etc.

MikeyA

Exactly LN both sides are getting greased by big money! Since the Citizens United ruling (2010) the gloves are off polluting the political process with money funneled in all aspects of American life. Now we find our elected more worried about the monied interests than the interests of the American people. Obama is not able to navigate a political system so dysfunctional as to not be able to accomplish the most basic needs of its citizens. Until the big money is somehow taken out of our body politics the country is doomed. So those who blame Obama for playing politics on "jobs" have got to realize the throngs of big money lobbyists who work behind the scenes against average Americans. While Obama thinks more spending will stimulate job growth in reality its our Wall Street trade policies that have gutted the American Middleclass. The American system will not allow fair trade because the powerful have profited hugely on the transfer of American jobs overseas. Yet we have here people blaming unions for all our ills. We need to look at the big picture not blame the little people with divisive petty jealousies.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

"both sides are getting greased by big money!" and thus since there are two sides to every issue it then is fair. "Obama is not able to navigate a political system so dysfunctional as to not be able to accomplish the most basic needs of its citizens." Exactly, that's what so many of us have been able to say. Every president before him has been able to do it. But he somehow cannot. It's because of a lack of experience and leadership.

"So those who blame Obama for playing politics on "jobs" have got to realize the throngs of big money lobbyists who work behind the scenes against average Americans." The American People expect the president to be above politics for the good of the country. The current President has not shown that he is. He has politicized every issue, even taken the government to the brink of collapse.

"The American system will not allow fair trade because the powerful have profited hugely on the transfer of American jobs overseas. Yet we have here people blaming unions for all our ills." The unions refuse to negotiate to make their industry competitive. They revert to thug tactics when even the smallest concession is to be made (see Wisconsin) and they would push the government to stall out and not do the work of the people until they get their way (see Wisconsin).

MikeyA

Simply more comminist agit prop...

"Obama is not able to navigate a political system so dysfunctional as to not be able to accomplish the most basic needs of its citizens."

Funny...I dont recall you calling our political system dysfuntional when Obama had a congressional super majority for two years...no that was just the natural order of things...

Of corse most of us know what "dysfunctional political system" is code for....you want to replace our political system with a socialist/communist central planning model...

And as I told you.....such a thing will neccesitate the killing of millions of americans like me who will not accept your new communist utopia without a fight...

There is no longer a question of your motives...there is no longer a question of your goal....

Everything you post can be traced right back to it's communist source as I have illustrated several times...

The only question that remains is:

Are you as willing to fight to take my freedom...as I am willing to fight to keep it....

You should be very careful what you wish for....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

thanks for the correction. Everybody wants to talk about SB5 and Issue #2 but no on really understands that this issue began as a state bill hence SB5 and that Issue #2 is an attempt to repeal SB5. Also it needs to be clarified that Issue #2 applies only to public sector government jobs....in Ohio

Who didn't understand that?

I believe LN understood it just got confused in the wording but I believe still understands the difference between a state bill and an issue.

MikeyA

ask Maggie, she's the one who made the correction.......I commented on her post......get it?

Wrong again purnhrt. you said "no on really understands that this issue began as a state bill hence SB5 and that Issue #2 is an attempt to repeal SB5." which was a general sweeping comment on a group of people. so again I ask... who doesn't understand that. Get it?

MikeyA

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