We the Corporations

Do you have a penny in your pocket? Well, if you do, you have more money in your pocket than the income taxes paid by GE, Wells Fargo, Exxon-Mobil, Citibank, and Bank of America combined. That’s right, these corporations and many more like them do NOT pay taxes like real people do. Instead, these greedy, ultra rich corporations make billions in profit, exploit tax loopholes, and some even get subsidies from the government. And the sad thing is that we the people aren’t taking action to put a stop to it.

For over a decade now, corporations have been getting a pretty sweet deal. Republicans have fought relentlessly to give them tax deals, tax breaks, government subsidies, less regulations, and more power to lay off workers, outsource jobs, and pay zero in taxes whatsoever. Republicans have literally been writing tax loopholes into the tax code for their corporate masters. And now, even as these corporations get away with not paying a penny in taxes, Republicans are continuing their calls for lower corporate tax rates.

Corporations have been evading paying their fair share for years now. In 2009, Bank of America exploited the tax code to avoid paying a single penny in income taxes, yet this same corporation received government bail out money and has been paying their top executives millions upon millions of dollars, ranging from $6 million to $30 million.

Just like Bank of America, Citibank received federal bail out cash to save it from collapsing, yet it too, doesn’t pay a single penny in income taxes. Its highest paid executive makes $9.5 million a year. Then we get to Wells Fargo. Despite being the fourth largest bank in the country, Wells Fargo escaped paying federal taxes by writing all of its losses off after its acquisition of Wachovia. Yet in 2009 the chief executive of Wells Fargo also saw his compensation double as he earned $5.6 million and stock awards of more than $13 million. Isn’t that disgusting? These banks nearly caused a depression and the near total collapse of the international economy because of their irresponsibility. They have no right to skimp on their taxes.

Then there’s Boeing. Boeing receives billions in federal dollars on the taxpayers dime, yet hasn’t paid one penny of income tax since 2008. You have got to wonder why a multi-billion dollar corporation like Boeing would need subsidies from the US government. Boeing isn’t the only tax evading corporation that receives government subsidies. Big Oil corporations do this too. Despite receiving billions of dollars of taxpayer subsidies from the US government, many oil corporations do not pay income taxes. One such oil corporation is Exxon-Mobil. The oil giant uses offshore subsidiaries in the Caribbean to avoid paying taxes in the United States. Although Exxon-Mobil paid $15 billion in taxes in 2009, not a penny of those taxes went to the American Treasury, instead going to other nations that have stricter tax codes. This was the same year that the company overtook Wal-Mart in the Fortune 500. Meanwhile the total compensation of Exxon-Mobil’s CEO the same year was over $29 million. Oil companies bring in hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars every year and their profits are only getting bigger. There is no reason why they shouldn’t be paying billions in taxes to the United States.

Believe it or not, even General Electric, the world’s largest corporation, doesn’t pay any income taxes. Hard to believe isn’t it? Despite filing more than 7,000 tax returns GE still paid nothing to the US government. They managed to do this because of a tax code that essentially subsidizes companies for losing profits and allows them to set up tax havens overseas. GE isn’t the only corporation that does this. Many of the most profitable corporations on the Fortune 500 evade paying taxes in one way or another.

This tax evading is a problem for America. Companies get away with not paying taxes by funneling money into offshore accounts in countries that are tax havens. The corporate tax rate is 36%, yet these greedy corporations deduct their taxes all the way down to zero. That’s totally unfair. The Fortune 500 made almost one trillion dollars in total profits in 2007. They cracked that number last year. That’s about $360 billion that the government did not collect. That is one third of the total budget deficit. Add the lost taxes that wealthy individuals get away with not paying and the budget deficit nearly closes entirely. The fact is, there is no money in the Treasury because these taxes aren’t being collected. In other words, the government has a revenue problem, not a spending problem.

But instead of blaming the corporations and wealthy, Republicans have been blaming the middle class, including teachers, police officers, fire fighters, nurses, garbage collectors, secretaries, steel workers, coal miners, auto workers, retirees, students, and unions as being the cause of the deficit and debt. Never mind the fact that CEO pay has risen 20% this year. Did you get a raise for your hard work? Of course not. Republicans actually think you should be paying MORE in taxes. A lot more. And to make certain that these tax scams are paid for, Republicans are aiming to cut programs that are beneficial to the middle class, the poor, and senior citizens such as housing, nutrition, health care, and education. The GOP even wants to privatize Medicare and Social Security and hand those funds to greedy, irresponsible Wall Street executives that have proven time and time again that all they care about is profit over people. They want to make YOUR life miserable so that CEO’s can live lavishly. That also includes lowering the wages you earn. So you’ll earn less money for your hard work AND pay MORE taxes. Corporations meanwhile, will make more money on your back while paying zilch in taxes. Sound fair?

What’s worse is that these same corporations are now supposedly, “people”. And these “people” have also invested millions of dollars in their Republican pawns so that they can twist America into their own sick vision where worker’s rights are non-existent, safety regulations are scant, and the minimum wage is permanently destroyed. A Bank Of America official recently told Rick Perry that they are willing to help him out. In other words, they’re willing to give him lots of money. And that money isn’t coming from the executives. Conveniently, Bank of America is set to lay off up to 10,000 workers. So basically, the money that Rick Perry receives from Bank of America is coming from the workers that the company no longer has to pay.

Corporations need to be punished and taught a lesson that they will never forget. Real people PAY their taxes. If these corporations want to be people, they are going to have to pay their taxes like the rest of us have to. If not, they should be punished by the government like anyone else would be. The time for being angry has passed. The time to take action is now. We must put our daily lives and jobs on hold and rebel against the wealthy class and corporations of this country. The only way to change this situation is to put corporations, the wealthy, and Republican politicians in a very uncomfortable situation. We need to send them a message that we will no longer tolerate their greed and thirst for absolute power. Not only do we need to end corporate personhood, we need to demand that they pay higher taxes as punishment for their actions against American workers and consumers. If corporations will not sacrifice in the way we want them to, we should do whatever it takes to bring the greedy executives down and make way for people who actually put workers and consumers first before profit. And if corporations refuse to bend to the will of the American people, it may be time to find out if these “people” bleed like real people do

No votes yet

The tax code needs to be simplified. According to a Google search, the U.S. tax code consists of approximately 73,000 pages. That is the problem, not so much the tax rate, there are just too many loopholes.
A flat tax might work well. Hell, we'd probably pay less than we do now.

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

disregard, double post. Site is really lagging for me.

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

Libtard commie spam from think progress aka DNC/Obama campaign...


Of corse...no mention that GE CEO is an Obama pal who sits on Obama's presidential jobs council while shipping US jobs to CHINA...

Nah...why mention that...

Love this threat of violence at the end...

"And if corporations refuse to bend to the will of the American people, it may be time to find out if these “people” bleed like real people do"

Yeah....we know libtards.....we know you want to riot , burn, rape, pillage and kill the "rich"...oh but not the rich liberals....

Even the nickname of the OP screams it..."rebel rebel"....

Yeah....you dont have the balls unless there is a mob of like minded commie libtards behind you...

But get a few of you in a group....and yeah...you'll run amuk...

And I personally cant wait....

You fuckers are in for quite a rude awakening....comrade....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

My, my, so much hate there. Did you forget to take your Prozac or couldn't you score any Oxycotin like your drug hero Rush Lambaugh
Let me say I am not a Liberal, they're just as crazy as you Conservatives. I don't need any radio, TV or mega-church morons to tell how and what to think.

And by the way is Zeitgeist secret code for "Closet Gay Republican"?

"My, my, so much hate there."

"“Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents.” Obama pal Bill aryes..

Hatred in this case is a one way street....the crap you parroted from think progress is full of hatred..

" Did you forget to take your Prozac or couldn't you score any Oxycotin like your drug hero Rush Lambaugh"

No I couldnt find any coke or dope like your hero Barry Soerto...and besides...it fucks with my heroin buzz...
"Let me say I am not a Liberal,"

Lets me say BULLSHIT to your disclaimer...

" they're just as crazy as you Conservatives. I don't need any radio, TV or mega-church morons to tell how and what to think."

Right...you go to think progress instead while claiming to not be liberal...

"And by the way is Zeitgeist secret code for "Closet Gay Republican"?"

Why?..you cruising for a new peice of ass?

Ah...over your little libtard head I see....too cryptic

Zeitgeist (German pronunciation: [ˈtsaɪtɡaɪst] ( listen)) is "the spirit of the times" or "the spirit of the age." Zeitgeist is the general cultural, intellectual, ethical, spiritual, and/or political climate within a nation or even specific groups, along with the general ambiance, morals, sociocultural direction, and mood associated with an era.


In this case....the zeitgeist says liberalism is dead....the people are actually voting against it...against your unions...against your social manipulation....oh the fight isnt over yet....but you've been rejected by the mainstream...

The only recourse you have left is violence...it's only a matter of time...

But when you see stuff like this comming from leftists:(which YOU posted here)

" it may be time to find out if these “people” bleed like real people do"

Violence isnt far behind...

The seething hatred of the left is self evident...

It's not conservatives doing flash mobs pal....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”


"And by the way is Zeitgeist secret code for "Closet Gay Republican"?"Wow another liberal obsessed with homosexuality on here.

Do we have enough to have a homophobic liberal football team yet?


it appears there are definitely a few pitchers and catchers.

"Do you have a penny in your pocket? Well, if you do, you have more money in your pocket than the income taxes paid by GE, Wells Fargo, Exxon-Mobil, Citibank, and Bank of America combined"
How do you know what kind of tax return they file? Some returns pass the income to the shareholders and the shareholders pay the tax. I would just like to know where you get your information and the strong knowledge of what is on these corps tax returns unless you have seen them. Share the actual return if you can. I'd like to see for myself that theyre not paying tax or if they are passing it through to the shareholders.


First up GE:

G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether


General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.

Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.

While General Electric is one of the most skilled at reducing its tax burden, many other companies have become better at this as well. Although the top corporate tax rate in the United States is 35 percent, one of the highest in the world, companies have been increasingly using a maze of shelters, tax credits and subsidies to pay far less.

In a regulatory filing just a week before the Japanese disaster put a spotlight on the company’s nuclear reactor business, G.E. reported that its tax burden was 7.4 percent of its American profits, about a third of the average reported by other American multinationals. Even those figures are overstated, because they include taxes that will be paid only if the company brings its overseas profits back to the United States. With those profits still offshore, G.E. is effectively getting money back.

Such strategies, as well as changes in tax laws that encouraged some businesses and professionals to file as individuals, have pushed down the corporate share of the nation’s tax receipts — from 30 percent of all federal revenue in the mid-1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009.

Yet many companies say the current level is so high it hobbles them in competing with foreign rivals. Even as the government faces a mounting budget deficit, the talk in Washington is about lower rates. President Obama has said he is considering an overhaul of the corporate tax system, with an eye to lowering the top rate, ending some tax subsidies and loopholes and generating the same amount of revenue. He has designated G.E.’s chief executive, Jeffrey R. Immelt, as his liaison to the business community and as the chairman of the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and it is expected to discuss corporate taxes.

“He understands what it takes for America to compete in the global economy,” Mr. Obama said of Mr. Immelt, on his appointment in January, after touring a G.E. factory in upstate New York that makes turbines and generators for sale around the world.

A review of company filings and Congressional records shows that one of the most striking advantages of General Electric is its ability to lobby for, win and take advantage of tax breaks.

Over the last decade, G.E. has spent tens of millions of dollars to push for changes in tax law, from more generous depreciation schedules on jet engines to “green energy” credits for its wind turbines. But the most lucrative of these measures allows G.E. to operate a vast leasing and lending business abroad with profits that face little foreign taxes and no American taxes as long as the money remains overseas.

Company officials say that these measures are necessary for G.E. to compete against global rivals and that they are acting as responsible citizens. “G.E. is committed to acting with integrity in relation to our tax obligations,” said Anne Eisele, a spokeswoman. “We are committed to complying with tax rules and paying all legally obliged taxes. At the same time, we have a responsibility to our shareholders to legally minimize our costs.”

The assortment of tax breaks G.E. has won in Washington has provided a significant short-term gain for the company’s executives and shareholders. While the financial crisis led G.E. to post a loss in the United States in 2009, regulatory filings show that in the last five years, G.E. has accumulated $26 billion in American profits, and received a net tax benefit from the I.R.S. of $4.1 billion.

But critics say the use of so many shelters amounts to corporate welfare, allowing G.E. not just to avoid taxes on profitable overseas lending but also to amass tax credits and write-offs that can be used to reduce taxes on billions of dollars of profit from domestic manufacturing. They say that the assertive tax avoidance of multinationals like G.E. not only shortchanges the Treasury, but also harms the economy by discouraging investment and hiring in the United States.

“In a rational system, a corporation’s tax department would be there to make sure a company complied with the law,” said Len Burman, a former Treasury official who now is a scholar at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. “But in our system, there are corporations that view their tax departments as a profit center, and the effects on public policy can be negative.”

The shelters are so crucial to G.E.’s bottom line that when Congress threatened to let the most lucrative one expire in 2008, the company came out in full force. G.E. officials worked with dozens of financial companies to send letters to Congress and hired a bevy of outside lobbyists.

The head of its tax team, Mr. Samuels, met with Representative Charles B. Rangel, then chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, which would decide the fate of the tax break. As he sat with the committee’s staff members outside Mr. Rangel’s office, Mr. Samuels dropped to his knee and pretended to beg for the provision to be extended — a flourish made in jest, he said through a spokeswoman.

That day, Mr. Rangel reversed his opposition to the tax break, according to other Democrats on the committee.

The following month, Mr. Rangel and Mr. Immelt stood together at St. Nicholas Park in Harlem as G.E. announced that its foundation had awarded $30 million to New York City schools, including $11 million to benefit various schools in Mr. Rangel’s district. Joel I. Klein, then the schools chancellor, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who presided, said it was the largest gift ever to the city’s schools.

G.E. officials say the donation was granted solely on the merit of the project. “The foundation goes to great lengths to ensure grant decisions are not influenced by company government relations or lobbying priorities,” Ms. Eisele said.

Mr. Rangel, who was censured by Congress last year for soliciting donations from corporations and executives with business before his committee, said this month that the donation was unrelated to his official actions.

Defying Reagan’s Legacy

General Electric has been a household name for generations, with light bulbs, electric fans, refrigerators and other appliances in millions of American homes. But today the consumer appliance division accounts for less than 6 percent of revenue, while lending accounts for more than 30 percent. Industrial, commercial and medical equipment like power plant turbines and jet engines account for about 50 percent. Its industrial work includes everything from wind farms to nuclear energy projects like the troubled plant in Japan, built in the 1970s.

Because its lending division, GE Capital, has provided more than half of the company’s profit in some recent years, many Wall Street analysts view G.E. not as a manufacturer but as an unregulated lender that also makes dishwashers and M.R.I. machines.

As it has evolved, the company has used, and in some cases pioneered, aggressive strategies to lower its tax bill. In the mid-1980s, President Ronald Reagan overhauled the tax system after learning that G.E. — a company for which he had once worked as a commercial pitchman — was among dozens of corporations that had used accounting gamesmanship to avoid paying any taxes.

“I didn’t realize things had gotten that far out of line,” Mr. Reagan told the Treasury secretary, Donald T. Regan, according to Mr. Regan’s 1988 memoir. The president supported a change that closed loopholes and required G.E. to pay a far higher effective rate, up to 32.5 percent.

That pendulum began to swing back in the late 1990s. G.E. and other financial services firms won a change in tax law that would allow multinationals to avoid taxes on some kinds of banking and insurance income. The change meant that if G.E. financed the sale of a jet engine or generator in Ireland, for example, the company would no longer have to pay American tax on the interest income as long as the profits remained offshore.

Known as active financing, the tax break proved to be beneficial for investment banks, brokerage firms, auto and farm equipment companies, and lenders like GE Capital. This tax break allowed G.E. to avoid taxes on lending income from abroad, and permitted the company to amass tax credits, write-offs and depreciation. Those benefits are then used to offset taxes on its American manufacturing profits.

G.E. subsequently ramped up its lending business.

As the company expanded abroad, the portion of its profits booked in low-tax countries such as Ireland and Singapore grew far faster. From 1996 through 1998, its profits and revenue in the United States were in sync — 73 percent of the company’s total. Over the last three years, though, 46 percent of the company’s revenue was in the United States, but just 18 percent of its profits.

Martin A. Sullivan, a tax economist for the trade publication Tax Analysts, said that booking such a large percentage of its profits in low-tax countries has “allowed G.E. to bring its U.S. effective tax rate to rock-bottom levels.”

G.E. officials say the disparity between American revenue and American profit is the result of ordinary business factors, such as investment in overseas markets and heavy lending losses in the United States recently. The company also says the nation’s workers benefit when G.E. profits overseas.

“We believe that winning in markets outside the United States increases U.S. exports and jobs,” Mr. Samuels said through a spokeswoman. “If U.S. companies aren’t competitive outside of their home market, it will mean fewer, not more, jobs in the United States, as the business will go to a non-U.S. competitor.”

The company does not specify how much of its global tax savings derive from active financing, but called it “significant” in its annual report. Stock analysts estimate the tax benefit to G.E. to be hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

“Cracking down on offshore profit-shifting by financial companies like G.E. was one of the important achievements of President Reagan’s 1986 Tax Reform Act,” said Robert S. McIntyre, director of the liberal group Citizens for Tax Justice, who played a key role in those changes. “The fact that Congress was snookered into undermining that reform at the behest of companies like G.E. is an insult not just to Reagan, but to all the ordinary American taxpayers who have to foot the bill for G.E.’s rampant tax sheltering.”

A Full-Court Press

Minimizing taxes is so important at G.E. that Mr. Samuels has placed tax strategists in decision-making positions in many major manufacturing facilities and businesses around the globe. Mr. Samuels, a graduate of Vanderbilt University and the University of Chicago Law School, declined to be interviewed for this article. Company officials acknowledged that the tax department had expanded since he joined the company in 1988, and said it now had 975 employees.

At a tax symposium in 2007, a G.E. tax official said the department’s “mission statement” consisted of 19 rules and urged employees to divide their time evenly between ensuring compliance with the law and “looking to exploit opportunities to reduce tax.”

Transforming the most creative strategies of the tax team into law is another extensive operation. G.E. spends heavily on lobbying: more than $200 million over the last decade, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Records filed with election officials show a significant portion of that money was devoted to tax legislation. G.E. has even turned setbacks into successes with Congressional help. After the World Trade Organization forced the United States to halt $5 billion a year in export subsidies to G.E. and other manufacturers, the company’s lawyers and lobbyists became deeply involved in rewriting a portion of the corporate tax code, according to news reports after the 2002 decision and a Congressional staff member.

By the time the measure — the American Jobs Creation Act — was signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2004, it contained more than $13 billion a year in tax breaks for corporations, many very beneficial to G.E. One provision allowed companies to defer taxes on overseas profits from leasing planes to airlines. It was so generous — and so tailored to G.E. and a handful of other companies — that staff members on the House Ways and Means Committee publicly complained that G.E. would reap “an overwhelming percentage” of the estimated $100 million in annual tax savings.

According to its 2007 regulatory filing, the company saved more than $1 billion in American taxes because of that law in the three years after it was enacted.

By 2008, however, concern over the growing cost of overseas tax loopholes put G.E. and other corporations on the defensive. With Democrats in control of both houses of Congress, momentum was building to let the active financing exception expire. Mr. Rangel of the Ways and Means Committee indicated that he favored letting it end and directing the new revenue — an estimated $4 billion a year — to other priorities.

G.E. pushed back. In addition to the $18 million allocated to its in-house lobbying department, the company spent more than $3 million in 2008 on lobbying firms assigned to the task.

Mr. Rangel dropped his opposition to the tax break. Representative Joseph Crowley, Democrat of New York, said he had helped sway Mr. Rangel by arguing that the tax break would help Citigroup, a major employer in Mr. Crowley’s district.

G.E. officials say that neither Mr. Samuels nor any lobbyists working on behalf of the company discussed the possibility of a charitable donation with Mr. Rangel. The only contact was made in late 2007, a company spokesman said, when Mr. Immelt called to inform Mr. Rangel that the foundation was giving money to schools in his district.

But in 2008, when Mr. Rangel was criticized for using Congressional stationery to solicit donations for a City College of New York school being built in his honor, Mr. Rangel said he had appealed to G.E. executives to make the $30 million donation to New York City schools.

G.E. had nothing to do with the City College project, he said at a July 2008 news conference in Washington. “And I didn’t send them any letter,” Mr. Rangel said, adding that he “leaned on them to help us out in the city of New York as they have throughout the country. But my point there was that I do know that the C.E.O. there is connected with the foundation.”

In an interview this month, Mr. Rangel offered a different version of events — saying he didn’t remember ever discussing it with Mr. Immelt and was unaware of the foundation’s donation until the mayor’s office called him in June, before the announcement and after Mr. Rangel had dropped his opposition to the tax break.

Asked to explain the discrepancies between his accounts, Mr. Rangel replied, “I have no idea.”

Value to Americans?

While G.E.’s declining tax rates have bolstered profits and helped the company continue paying dividends to shareholders during the economic downturn, some tax experts question what taxpayers are getting in return. Since 2002, the company has eliminated a fifth of its work force in the United States while increasing overseas employment. In that time, G.E.’s accumulated offshore profits have risen to $92 billion from $15 billion.

“That G.E. can almost set its own tax rate shows how very much we need reform,” said Representative Lloyd Doggett, Democrat of Texas, who has proposed closing many corporate tax shelters. “Our tax system should encourage job creation and investment in America and end these tax incentives for exporting jobs and dodging responsibility for the cost of securing our country.”

As the Obama administration and leaders in Congress consider proposals to revamp the corporate tax code, G.E. is well prepared to defend its interests. The company spent $4.1 million on outside lobbyists last year, including four boutique firms that specialize in tax policy.

“We are a diverse company, so there are a lot of issues that the government considers, that Congress considers, that affect our shareholders,” said Gary Sheffer, a G.E. spokesman. “So we want to be sure our voice is heard.”


What you are supposed to forget...Obama and Immelt are best buds..

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Next up Wells fargo and Bank of America:

Bank of America, Wells Fargo might not pay federal taxes for 2009

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/26/91119/bank-of-america-wells-fargo-...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

""Next up Wells fargo and Bank
First up GE: G.E.’s
Submitted by Zeitgeist on Sun, 2011-08-21 21:13.
First up GE:""

I'm not reading all of that copy paste stuff.... I asked to see an 1120 or an 1120S. Other wise its only hear say to me.


Hey I asked to see a birth certificate...all I got was a copy paste stuff ...a manipulated PDF file....

So I guess Obama being a natural born citizen is hearsay too...


You want thier IRS records just ask em...I'm sure they will send you a copy...


“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”


And that has what to do with the price of beans in China?
I didnt ask about Obama. That is a whole different subject. I asked you to stop copy and pasting and give us something we can make a judgement on that isnt someone elses words or opinion. That would be the tax return. Until you can provide us with that, Dont waste our time with your copy and pasting articles.
I'm not saying it isnt true. I'm not saying you dont have valid points. Take down your defenses and post the transcript of their tax return or a copy if you can get it. Making snide remarks to me isnt showing us that you are sincere, only that you are not serious about your own subject.
Answer nicely or dont answer at all.


#1...you are not my internet boss...I'll do as I please...

#2...I'll assume you have a working search engine like google or bing....IE:...look it up yourself...

#3...I CANT provide their tax returns...and niether can you...so you are setting the bar so high that you never have to ackowledge the simple truth...

#4...the "WHY" of the story varies on why they didnt have to pay income taxes...(but that is listed in the articles you refuse to read...)...you of corse arent supposed to dig any deeper...just accept what the OP says and be outraged at the evil rich conservatives (as if Jeffery immelt wasnt a flaming liberal and Obama pal)

#5... if you have bother to notice...I didnt start this thread.....You need to address your comments to the original poster......I tried to give you some confirmation on the story and a bit of backround...you want tax returns...good luck with that.....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

The problem with actually fixing the tax system is that too many classes of people and entities have their own loopholes that they refuse to give up. How many of you %&*!$# would give up your MID (mortgage interest deduction)?

A flat tax without regard to circumstance is the only fair tax system to invoke. Everyone pays, and everyone pays a set percentage. But again, each loophole or deduction or subsidy or whatever, is prized by their beneficiaries.

The problem of having a system that's too complicated, is that too many bribes exist, hence too many beneficiaries exist, meaning few people have incentive to make the system fair again.

Gordon Gekko's famous "greed is good" speech has evolved into the Tea Party. Americans are, by nature, a greedy lot who will think of themselves ahead of what's good for the country as a whole. America was once an exporting nation that had supported the worlds largest middle class. Now greed hollowed out our economy when we chose to buy the foreign brands because it was the "smart" thing to do as a consumer. Well the Trojan Horse has back fired and turned America into a unemployed underpaid economy with too few working and paying taxes. The Tea Party coached by corporate America still cannot see the forest for the trees and demands still more freedom to buy cheap foreign goods furthering our trade imbalance and our ultimate decline. Have you noticed neither party has a viable solution for the mess we're in? The solution would cost the "owners" too much of their economic pie.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

And yet...when the democrats took control of congress....unemployment was at 4.6%...

And yes...one party had a "solution"...Cut cap and balance"....it was rejected out of hand by Obama and the democrats.

One party holds majority power in washington right now...Obama and his band of idiots that you begged us to vote for...the guy IN CHARGE is a democrat.....you got problems with the way things are...the buck stops there...with the CEO...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

So if the buck stops there does that mean Obama, or any president for that matter is a King? I mean, if you're going to blame Obama then I guess what happened with the jobs hemmoraging in 07 and 08 is all Bush's fault, right?

It doesn't make sense - ALL of Congress is responsible when the country goes to shit because we are a Republic. We don't have mob rule and the minority party can always block whatever shit the majority party tries pushing down the throat of the public.

That aside, ZEITGEIST had some great points and did a primo job pointing out that Wrangle was little more than a WHORE for GE and that kind of individualist action means that the GE tax cuts are a direct result of ONE SINGLE DEMOCRAT that abused his position of power.

So... lets end the name calling (libtard, republicrook, etc.) and start coming up with ideas that are far more simple that "flat tax" because its regressive and will hurt poor people more than middle and upper class on needed goods like food, clothing and shelter.

I like the idea of a national sales tax that is indexed to the level of luxury of the related good and its predetermined "human need". In other words, food, medicine and clothing would be taxed at the lowest rates while luxury yachts would be taxed at the highest. Eliminate any and all taxes on non-tangible sales (labor) and include a one-tenth of one cent transaction tax on all stock trades per share to cool the jets on the speculators and flash traders that screw up the free-market supply and demand principles of the economy (oil and gas).

You get the idea...

To shut everyone up, to make sure everything truly is "fair", America needs a flat tax.

Everyone pays, for instance, 10% of income as taxes. No deductions, no earned income credit, nothing. Period. You are "poor"? Your income tax is 10% just like everyone else. You are "rich"? Your income tax is 10% just like everyone else.

What could be more fair than that? Nobody can cry about some other special interest group "not paying their fair share" because EVERYONE's fair share is 10%

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a

"Americans are, by nature, a greedy lot who will think of themselves ahead of what's good for the country as a whole."

You just perfectly described the liberal "entitlement" crowd.

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

Yeppers...classic projection...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Whats next some encyclopedia.


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