Merit Pay For Teachers Is Impossible To Determine

Its amusing how those who oppose unions automatically assume business owners and administrators are so honest and fair. Let's get real. I personally know of teachers in North Carolina (right to work state) who were all fired by the new principal who then proceeded to hire two of his relatives and and several close friends to fill the vacancies. This is why you need a union. Local example...Brian Wilson comes in and fires Tom Watkins and hires his wife. These decisions are not based on merit rather they are based on nepotism.

Many North Carolina teaches have worked months without a paycheck...because "there's no money." I wonder how many of you would do that?

Its an absolute joke to believe that you can judge a teachers performance and pay them by merit. The job of teaching is so layered in complexities and affected by numerous factors (broken homes, no family support for education, learning disabilities, etc.) that they (teachers) cannot control...its completely ridiculous to think their merit can be measured. How about the positive affects teachers have on students that don't appear on grade cards and test scores?

Finally, Do you really believe non-union decision makers will REALLY make cuts based on merit? NO! They will cut the teachers who make the most money regardless of how effective that teacher is.. What you will be left with (like Sylvania Schools) is a system of inexperienced low paid teachers.

That is why teachers need unions.

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Listening to you union fucks squeal in mortal terror over being held accountable for your job performance, is literally making my dick hard.

You're claiming that it's impossible to obtain merit in a political organization. Well, that's exactly what you have with a union, which is 100% political. So you're saying you're OK with the current unfairness, as long as the taxpayer is the one suffering. As long as YOU don't suffer.

Well, the era of unions is over. They are crashing and burning. Time to destroy them. At least, I'm going to enjoy my throbbing erections while this process runs its course. LOL!

Your conservative anger is expected...and your sexual pleasure from it is quite disturbing. You may not be aware of this...but teachers, fire fighters, police and other state employees also pay taxes. You are a typical conservative hypocrite. You don't want socialism when sharing wealth...but you want socialism to share your lack of it.

If teachers are to be paid on merit...then fuck-head parents like yourself should also be held accountable when you send your kids to school unbathed, and tired because you were out with your girlfriend at the bar all night since your divorce from your fourth wife. So, when the kid comes to school unable to focus because his parents are selfish then want to judge the teacher because your kid is more worried about why daddy won't come home than he is learning his school work.

Guest Zero...I've worked in union and non-union shops. There are lazy workers on both ends. Your dilusion that the employer is always fair will change the day your let go because your boss decided to put his son in your place. I'm sure you'll think that's fair.

If you think state employees have such easy jobs and great pay...why didn't you become one? Perhaps because your to ignorant to attain your Master's Degree which is required of teachers by the state? Perhaps because you don't want to get paid from 8:00 - 2:30 even though you really work many more hours than that.

The unions may be losing the battle at the moment...but they will never be destroyed...because there will always be unfair...advantageous...dick head employers trying to take advantage of them.

Just make sure you don't send the product of your erection with your kid for his lunch at school. Your already feeding them way to much sugar which makes them hyper...then you can blame the teacher for his behaviour and put your kid on ritalin you stupid fuck.



Unions will lose the battle because they are product of a Industrial Age system that has been in decline for the better part of a century. "because there will always be unfair...advantageous...dick head employers trying to take advantage of them." There are more than enough laws on the books that aid workers against this. Unions are not needed. In fact, the legal way to be rid of useless public employee is so long of a process and filled with red tape that there are two ways I've seen it successfully done.

1) The supervisor adds more tasks to the position making it a higher category to where the employee has to reapply for their own job but lose it to another better employee. (the downside is the useless employee goes somewhere else to be a leech)

2) The supervisor gets enough derogatory material to demote, not fire, the individual and they go to another position to be a leech.

The unfortunate thing is in both scenarios the virus is still there infecting the workplace with a bad attitude and do not permanently solve the problem.

Unions will lose this fight because the alternative is layoffs and state bankruptcy. Their "rebound" will not return to what has been the status quo which was the hope the unions have been clinging too for years.


"Unions will lose the battle..."

You're wrong because you can't change human nature. There are always a few who like to control but millions who won't be controlled.

Apparently those "millions who won't be controlled" are NOT Union members. Who needs a Union control if the employer gives you a raise? Who needs a Union to control reporting workplace violations to officials? Who needs a Union to protect them if they are doing their jobs?

Why do they call it "collective bargaining" if Unions treat you like an individual? To a Union, you are just another donor to the Union boss retirement. A union member is another sheep being controlled by Union bosses.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a

You've presented an excellent argument for why merit-based pay for teachers doesn't work. Without a level playing field, it's doomed to failure.


You're in possession of a disturbed mind....or is it in possession of you?

In other words, you admit that I'm in command of the facts and logic of the topic, and lacking that, you can only comment about myself in order to just distract the reader from what I said.

Luckily, most people just aren't that stupid. Your tactic won't work.

I don't think you're in command of much more than your proclivity for interjecting sex and profanity into most everything you say. Don't be so sure your tactics will work.

GZ you still black balled from TT? How long will you be exiled? Damn shame JR gets all worked up and gives his detractors the boot when a warning would suffice. Not like it was happening everyday. While we disagree much of the time I thought your opinion on housing has been spot on. Too many have their ignorant heads in the sand about what really is going on. I think many of the commentators are in the real estate business and can't have the applecart upset.

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

I don't know if I'm blacklisted. Having been so targeted merely for intellectually dissenting, I no longer have the desire to use TT in any fashion. Liberty only exists from tolerance, and the yuppie set of people never did tolerate my economic views once I left their ranks. They all think they're gonna be rich. They all think that placing bets on prices is the same thing as investing. They think huge personal debts are normal. They are literally the best-educated morons that Humanity has ever seen.

I wasn't criticizing Jr either, just the housing market and those who believe in all the myths therein. If he took that personally then he has a mental illness that is his problem, not mine. You can't fix people like that.

I was talking with another guy just on Sunday, and he was talking about landing a land-contract deal for a house in East Toledo. I used AREIS and found an incredibly inflated assessment for the place. Literally, it's over twice what the property is really worth in absolute terms. Obviously the owner hadn't worked to make sure the property was properly assessed to the values that dominate that area. And yet, the guy I spoke with insists that in getting in the deal for less than half of the assessment -- from a current owner who just wants to get out of renting to ET's who trash housing and don't pay rent anyway -- that he's going to get "instant equity". I keep hearing this "instant equity" crap, and it's just more propaganda from the REIC (Real Estate Industrial Complex).

Since this is the Second Great Depression, housing will continue to collapse and then stagnate for a long time. Average housing appreciation in Toledo cannot return to positive values until the 2030s AD. And so people will continue to buy housing in the area with an expectation of profiting ("flipping"), find out "unexpectedly" that that can't happen, and so they will let those properties too fall into disrepair, or go back to the lender. Waves of foreclosures and abandonments will be significant market factors for Toledo for along time.

While we disagree on the value of unions we do agree on the phony real estate market. The fools on TT think that real estate has taken some minor bump in the road and the future looks bright. Oh such ignorance from the educated class! Like you I believe the Second Great Depression is here to stay. While I avoid real estate like the plague I know enough who continue to dabble in the insanity. Last summer I noticed the unraveling of intercity properties. Many were being burned to the ground while the fire department scratched their collective heads wondering why the rash of arson. None, I believe, were solved and the real reason was hidden in the fact that the "owners" were stuck with property that will never appreciate and their plans of a limited ownership timeline were dashed to the reality of being long term landowners of unsellable property. Well we just got a peak at what the Toledo Zoo thought of rental property they tore the damn things down siting the unprofitable business model of owning Toledo rental property. So the owners decided to burn baby burn to get out of real estate. All across Toledo real estate has lost value since 2005 and will continue to lose value till some miracle replaces the thousands of middle class jobs that have disappeared affording the average Joe the means to afford a home. Kasich promises to return Ohio to a jobs Meca by promoting low pay right-to-work employment that affords one in ten the means of a middle class lifestyle. He thinks that he'll be able to attract jobs from the poverty wage of the south. The jobs that migrated to the south were on there way to China via unfair trade agreements that promote exporting our jobs. If he does manage to keep a few jobs then poverty will still increase from global wage pressures. Kasich will shift the tax burden from wealthy interests to the middle and lower class. This shift will hammer the home owner till it becomes a balancing act of do I abandon my home or do I pay the huge tax bills off my wage that seems to always go down (inflation wise). So if you think that buying that bigger home is wise think long and hard to the ever increasing costs of owning a home with stagnate wages going forward. Globalization has changed everything. The past cannot be looked for future reference. Most of the world survives on less than two dollars-a-day. China has huge numbers of unemployed college graduates. These are the facts. The next year will see big changes. Again this is the opinion of Wolfman!

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

The core of the problem is that this so-called educated class is embroiled in two great forces:

1. They are not really educated. They are instead heavily propagandized in the ways and means of the Holy American Empire.

2. They are needed to fill out the ranks of the vast set of suckers needed to buy up overpriced housing and stocks and gold and all other imperial assets, so that the rich can get richer.

Anyway, speaking of arson, remember when the Arbuckle Building burned downtown? The building didn't have any power, and yet a fire started in an upper floor and burned fast and hot. That should have been a clear arson case, and yet the city chose to just send in the backhoes and get rid of the evidence. Naturally, I noticed in the news that the owner of the building had been in property-tax arrears for some time. What happened with all that? Nothing, probably. The City of Toledo doesn't mess with Big Property Owners. The city only chases little guys, who can't defend themselves against the city's legal apparatus.

Now on to Kasich. You clearly think little of him, for reasons I understand. Yet there's only one way to regain anything like prosperity for this area, and Kasich is doing it: Once wages fall into the globalist zone, then Toledoans can compete again for capital. There's only one way to do that: Drop wages and taxes and services to the globalist standard. Capitalists really don't care about things like infrastructure until it affects them directly. They certainly don't care about stupid shit like parks and theaters. The only thing that matters is the cost of production. Toledo's unions and government and overall First World costs make it nearly impossible to start up or move a business here. Economically, we've outlawed businesses here. If only the same economy was able to outlaw the government too.

So we'll have to suffer under big government which we can't afford to pay for anymore. Eventually Toledoans will look at their tax bills and revolt. But that blessed day is surely a long way off. That's because Toledoans are dumb. Unionized work and schools made them that way. Government-sponsored debt is keeping them that way, at least for now.

As for China, I'm not worried about it. Neither am I worried about globalism. Globalism runs on cheap oil, which will never return for the world. We already burned up all the cheap oil. Expensive oil is the only future, and it will kill globalist commerce, at least in comparison to today's transactions. To some degree, production must return to the USA, in order to reach local customers within range of expensive transportation costs. The kicker is that the drop in consumerism from the end of the cheap-oil era will counter that move, meaning nowhere near the same amount of production will return to the USA. People will just learn to do without. There just won't be the fuels available to supply such legacy demands.

Maureen Dowd / Philadelphia's avenging altar boy
The local DA says there's 'no get-out-of-jail-free card' just because someone's a priest
Thursday, March 17, 2011

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Aren't you glad public schools are immune to sexual misconduct by their facaulty?


Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.


"Who needs a Union control if the employer gives you a raise?"

Within that comment lies the rub. You said "if" the employer gives you a raise instead of "when" the employer gives you a raise.

Are you really naive enough to put your future into the hands of some kind-hearted, benevolent employer? Unions sprang from the loins of those asshholes. Wake up! They don't give a shit about you, they're in the business of making money - any way they can.

Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Jesus, grow a back bone and take care of yourself, you leach.

I do my job and I do my job well. When I ask for a raise, I usually get it because I work harder, smarter and better than others. And, since I can do my job better, faster and more completely than TWO union hacks, it is cheaper for an employer to hire me. Why pay to hire two union hacks, pay twice the salary, pay twice the healthcare, pay twice the unemployment insurance, pay twice the workers comp insurance etc etc etc. It is cheaper for an employer to hire ONE good person like me than two morons like yourself.

What incentive to you have to make yourself better when you know for a fact that, no matter how much better you are than the guy next to you on the line, you will still make the same money as the drooling moron who pulls his underwear out of his crack every 5 min.

Your skill CANNOT shine. Your intelligence CANNOT show. Your work ethic CANNOT be seen because no matter what you do, you are no better than anyone else in a union. You are lumped into the "collective" of idiots that hold you back.

Unless, that is, you ARE the drooling moron who pulls his underwear out of his crack every 5 minutes. Then you absolutely NEED a union. You cannot count on yourself because you are a fuking idiot that would be on welfare with the lack of skills you have, so you attach yourself to a gang of hoods who will protect your worthless ass from being fired.

That is who unions help. Not the individual, but the "collective". You are nothing but a number so you are treated like one.

And the bonus? Since I am good at what I do, if I don't like the way my employer treats me, I QUIT and get a better job.

You are right about one thing. "absolute power corrupts absolutely" Just look at all the Union Leaders who have stolen your dues and spent it on themselves. Do you actually think your union "leaders" give a shyt about you? They are in it for the money. YOUR money and when they steal it from you, you just bend over and take it.
"On January 27, 2011, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, Andrew Blackmon, former President of Steelworkers Local 842 (located in Detroit, Mich.), was sentenced to two years of probation and was ordered to pay restitution..."

"On January 13, 2011, in the United States District Court for the Western District of Michigan, an information was filed charging April Franklin, former office secretary of Plumbers Local 333 (located in Lansing, Mich.) and former bookkeeper for Local 333's Joint Apprenticeship Training Fund, with one count of embezzlement of union funds ..."

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a

Holy Mother of God, if you're that damned good you shouldn't be asking for raises. You should be handing them out.

"Within that comment lies the rub. You said "if" the employer gives you a raise instead of "when" the employer gives you a raise."

Nonunion employees get raises ALL THE TIME. They are incentive based. Unlike unions who tie their salaries to a % over minimum wage and then lobby for minimum wage to be increased which we all know raises unemployment. This is called a backdoor raise and is intellectually and morally dishonest, yet it's a normal part of unions practice.

For unions doing SO MUCH good it's funny how unions only represent a fraction of the working class and has been quickly shrinking. Not because of politicians tactics but because unions are a product of a defunct economic system. You act as if you read "The Jungle" and believe it was written yesterday.

The biggest problem with teachers is tenure. Where the incentive is to do well until they receive tenure. The tenured system is a flawed and broken practice that is not matched in any industry. If we tenured our doctors and upon receiving it the doctors were as cavalier with their trade as teachers then no one would visit the doctor. We'd suddenly be a healthy nation with no reason to go to the hospital for fear of what would happen there.


I thought minimum wage increases were an attempt to keep low-paid workers from sinking further into poverty (not that they have.) After all, somebody's gotta work at McDonalds, right?

"The biggest problem with teachers is tenure."

Got news for you. At Toledo Public Schools, tenure won't help you if you're not doing your job. They have had a program for 30 years (little publicized by The Blade because it doesn't like teachers) that was invented by the teachers' union to remove poorly performing teachers. TPS negotiators and administrators fought against the program for years before it was finally implemented. Strangely enough, it's based on self-policing the ranks just like the medical profession.

"I thought minimum wage increases were an attempt to keep low-paid workers from sinking further into poverty (not that they have.) After all, somebody's gotta work at McDonalds, right?"

You probably never wondered why unions are the ones lobbying hard for minimum wage increases when most unions don't represent anyone making minimum wage. Are you really that naive?

Got news for you if your kids are TPS students you might want to put off your union pension a little longer until they're say 50 because you'll be supporting them. TPS should rename itself the dunce factory. Yet the private schools in Toledo whose teachers make considerably less than TPS teachers and don't have the benefit of tenure produce better students regardless of the part of the area or economic means they come from.


The kiddies are long grown and gone although they did go to TPS. My "dunce" of a daughter has a good job and is working on her MBA. I sure wish I had a union pension coming down the road, but the only time I belonged to a union was for one year in the early '70s. I couldn't handle the filthy working conditions and the monotony of punching out engine parts.

Schools that can pick and choose their students generally have an advantage. They don't deal with special education kids whose test scores, by law, have to be included with regular ed kids. The behavior problems? They kick them back to the public schools along with their crazier-than-hell parents.

And those underpaid, tenureless private school teachers? Maybe you should plan on supporting THEM since they don't have pensions, either.

Your answer brings up many of the problems with schools that the unions and administration don't want to deal with. I'm willing to bet your daughter didn't attend one of the inner city schools and most likely went to Start, Whitmer, or Bowsher.

Maybe our public schools SHOULD be allowed to pick and choose their students? Again an incentive for our students to do better by being allowed to attended better schools within the district instead of geographical and socio-economical location.

And I know several retired private school teachers. While not rich there's not a one I know of that's in poverty. I would suspect that it's because they ran their lives the same way they did their classroom: disciplined.

And that's all I expect out of anyone. I don't expect anyone to take care of me. I'm on my own. If I make bad choices and can't retire don't shed a tear for me. I don't want a leg up on anyone else. It's my job to do what's best for me. For anyone else to expect the same is selfish and goes against human nature.


The public schools love all those so-called special needs kids, since they come along with federal and state funding for that purpose. The TPS runs on FUNDING, not on PERFORMANCE. That's why sane people who are willing to shoulder the huge costs, are fleeing the district and are placing their children in private schools or in public districts like Washington Local.

And we'd be better able to support the teachers in private schools if we were allowed to voucher-direct our already-paid property taxes for that purpose. Maybe Kasich (Republican) will finally implement that for Ohio that the worthless Strickland (Democrat) didn't. In case you still haven't noticed, Democrats are the real problem here. They have literally created all the problems in public education systems, and literally again, Republicans are the solution.

If the TPS program actually removes "poorly performing teachers", then I'd hate to see what a "poorly performing teacher" was before the program was implemented. The FACT is that the entire school system itself is poorly performing, and such programs were only implemented to protect the system from proper oversight and correction by us, the taxpayers, the real bosses in this system.

You're a professional liar, Lilypad. The entire TPS system is poorly performing. So any program within that claims otherwise, is similarly a liar. The system is run by liars and crooks. I can only posit that you're one of them.

Eventually so many students will have fled the TPS that the crooks and liars which run it will have to accept privatization rammed down their Communist, Socialist and Unionist throats. This must happen regardless of the lies that you're paid to tell here on SB.

The poorly performing teachers were pretty much as they are today, only they're no longer allowed to continue to teach as they were in the days when only prinicpals evaluated them. This program has another component which assigns excellent veteran teachers to mentor, supervise, and evaluate first-year teachers and those new to the district. This veteran teacher makes the determination whether these new teachers will be employed for a second year. If they don't meet standards, they're gone. The program was conceived by the teachers' union in 1972 and placed on the bargaining table. The administration fought the proposal for nine years until it was finally implemented in 1981, long before you or anyone else was worried about school or teacher performance. You've just stepped into a league you're ill-equipped to play in. Sorry, BOSS.

(sarcasm) Well the program is OBVIOUSLY doing a cracker jack job!

TPS has been in decline for well over the last 20 years. Instead of attempting to solve the problems the administration has been friendly the union and fought proposals that could help the students.

What is funny is you are using one of worst school districts in one of the most union friendly districts to defend the teachers high pay and benefits. In my opinion no option should be off the table to including turning all the schools over to the state.

At this point if I were a employer if given the choice between a former TPS student and an illegal immigrant I'd hire the immigrant because while there's no guarantee either are educated at least with the immigrant you'll get someone motivated enough to actually work.


If the poorly performing teachers are "gone by the second year", then who's responsible for the poor performance of the TPS?

Note well that "students", "parents", and "taxpayers" can't possibly be the answer, since that would be absurd. The system has workers (teachers) who are responsible for their work product.

We're right back to what I said before. The performance of the TPS obviously demonstrates that their system protects bad teachers and doesn't expel them.

I stand by my previous statement. You come on this blog and lie. It's almost certain that you're paid to do so.


"Go from the presence of the foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge. In other words, don't waste your time arguing with an idiot."

Father what's-his-name
to Archie Bunker

I'm going to start following that advice.

You get your wisdom from a TV sitcom?

Why am I not suprised.....pop culture baby.....that was probably the peak of your mental development.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

You aren't responding to my critical points. You're only performing ad hominem attacks. No advice will possibly help you.

And while we so-calledly debate here, the TPS falls into further despondency. That is the reality that will determine the outcome, not anything you or I say.

I responded to your merit pay points and somehow they posted to the bottom of the thread. Scroll down and read, then give me your brilliant response.

Ad hominem attacks? I could accuse you of the same. I have knowledge of the subject that you do not, so you assume someone must be paying me to post here. Are you kidding? We post anonymously. Why would anyone pay another person to post their thoughts?

That's the trouble with folks like you. You get frustrated because you don't have the goods to back up what you say, or to rebut in any meaningful way what I say, so you resort to childish name-calling, profanity, and personal attacks. If that's the best you can do, I'm sorry for you.

What you posted was not a critical response. It was literally what an outraged 14-yr-old would post when her tiny little insulated world was threatened by the big bad mean outside.

You cannot sanely defend the idea that a professional is paid without regard to their work performance.

And if you don't like to work in inner-city schools, just take the fuck off and don't come back. Of course, even with the tsunami of dropping pay, people are standing in line to work in the public school systems. IT'S A JOB, moron.

Remember, regardless of what's said here, the pay and benefits and retirements of the public-union class will be corrected downward to what real workers get. And the standard of work will be "real work". You'll have to perform, not just vote Democrat and vote union and then sit back on your summers off and ride that yacht you easily afforded on your huge pay.

The era of union largesse is coming to an end. Get angry. Get mouthy. Go and sulk. Giggle and type. None of that will matter, since government budgets won't support paying more for less, any further.

How do you respond critically to stupidity? I replied to a list of things only a dumbass would lay out for judging merit pay. It's not my problem you think like a 14-year-old.

My concerns, regarding "merit pay," is the government's lack of information on how they plan to implement such a program. The government has no plan for how they are going to determine the "merit" of teachers. If it will be based on State testing then what will the answer be for Foreign Language, Phys Ed, Art, Kindergarten teachers, teachers that only have juniors and seniors, etc. What standard will they use for them? Is it fair if they have different standards?

I also question the fact that it will make teachers more competitive. I personally believe competition already exists between schools with it comes to scores on the OGT and District Report Cards.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love competition. Competing in sports from an early age and then in college helped make me better. But if you think I didn't compete as a teacher you are sorely mistaken. I always looked at the neighboring districts to see what there scores were and would continuously strive to have better ratings than all of them. Trust me, I am not the only one.

I also believe that a system of Merit Pay already exists. If we look at the district with the lowest test scores, TPS. They also have some of the lowest paid teachers in the area. On the other hand, those schools that have achieved Excellent ratings, Ottawa Hills, Perrysburg, and others have some of the highest paid teacher in the area.

When last I looked, TPS teachers get about $32K to start, have a $48K average, and max out at $60K. All that is of course for 9 months of work, and also doesn't include the usual, government-level, gold-plated benefits and retirement packages. As reported over on ToledoTalk from extensive postings by site owner Jr and others, the teachers in the Ottawa Hills district don't fare as well to start; for example from 2004:

And in the totality, the TPS costs just about the most in Ohio on a per-student metric -- now about $13000. Ottawa Hills is well below that.

Considering that the TPS is obscenely low performing, what's happening there is morally criminal.

Teacher merit can be directly measured. Schools are soaked in metrics. Graduation rates. Testing scores. Absenteeism. All these can be folded into a master metric. If you don't graduate all your students due to academic dropouts, then your pay needs to be penalized, like in the private sector (i.e. REAL economy). If your students don't test to at least the state minimum, then again your pay should be penalized, just like in the REAL world. Facing these penalties, you're simply going to have to perform, accept lower pay, or leave the profession as the worthless piece of shit that you really are.

Just thought you would like an update on some very old data that you were giving me. Currently, the average salary of a TPS teacher is $54, 568 and Ottawa Hills is $71, 821. The expenditure per student at TPS is $13,544 and Ottawa Hills is $14,531. And once again, I fully agree that pay should be linked to dropouts, graduation rates, test scores, but I still contest that a similar system already exsists.

And, by the way, if me and my district is such a worthless POS, why do we have a 99% graduation and attendance rate and are rated Excellent by the State. The teachers in my building are great teachers and they love their job and do an excellent job of educating their students. Thank You.

Care to deliver the links to that data?

The TPS is a low-rated and low-performing school district. Where are you getting your data? "Excellent"? We really need to see where the TPS was EVER rated in ANYTHING as "Excellent".

You're yet another paid shill. Well, we taxpayers are finally waking up, and we're coming to destroy your jobs. Your decades of Unionism, Communism and Socialism earned that end for you.

My information came from the Ohio Department of Education database. And I don't believe I ever said I taught at TPS. Try to educate yourself with facts rather than just jumping to assumptions.

So.... you don't have the link.

MikeyA = Expenditures per student. = Average Salary

Actually, I'm sorry, I don't think a link will work directly to the file. But here is a link to the database and I'm sure you can figure out how to use it.

if you were a teacher and your pay depended on the items you listed above, where would you choose to teach? A school whose neighborhood is socio-economically depressed or a school in a wealthy neighborhood?

Let's consider those graduation rates. If a kid doesn't graduate, whom do we penalize? The senior high science teacher whose students cry to mommy and daddy that his class is too tough (this actually happened many, many years ago at Bowsher; the teacher was fired on a trumped-up charge so the administration didn't have to listen to the parents bitch) or the 6th grade teacher who supposedly didn't prepapre her students for tougher classes down the road?

And what about absenteeism? Is the teacher supposed to visit students' homes, pull their asses out of bed, feed and dress them and drive them to school? And what about the ones who go in the front door at 8:00 and out the back at 8:30? Well, yeah, I guess we could pass out ropes to the teachers...except the law might get involved.

And those test scores! Again, where would you rather teach?

Oh, and I'd rather be called a liar than prove myself a knucklehead.

Lilypad. Here is some advice based on experience that has worked for me. "Do not argue with misinformed fools. They will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience". I rarely post to this blog anymore as it has become simply a forum for foul language, rhetoric, one sided shots, and skewed perspective. The wonder of the modern communication age has given everyone the ability to publish in the virtual world. These blogs remind me, being a bit older, of the CB radio craze of the past. Everyone is cool, and correct. Of course I am lucky enough to reside in Lake Wobegon, where all of the children are above average. LOL. Have fun, catch you on the flip flop.

"Do not argue with misinformed fools. They will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience". I rarely post to this blog anymore as it has become simply a forum for foul language, rhetoric, one sided shots, and skewed perspective. "

Sound advice. I was already considering getting out of here; I think you've convinced me.

Cut and Run!

Buh bye ....dont let the internet portal hit your ass on the way out....

See...minipad is SO smart...he thinks I'm Madjack....


Too bad you are leaving minpad...I was just going to request an audit from chris to see how many different ID's post from the same IP address....

When the going gets tough....liberals run for the border....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Lame ass cover-up attempt...
Submitted by Lilypad on Fri, 2011-02-25 16:30.
and you know it. African-Americans have endured centuries of sub-human treatment at the hands of white people. And don't whine to me about how slavery, beatings, lynchings, and terrorism happened so long ago they should get over it. You're damned lucky the only discrimination you ever faced was being rejected for a job pushing a broom. The Supreme Court recognized this. They have another term for "retroactive turnabouts" and "paybacks." It's called affirmative action.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

The fact is TPS doesn't fire inadequate teachers.

If it did there would be no teachers left to teach. The Toledo Public School System is F A I L I N G.

Everyone knows it. The facts show it. The teachers know it. Yet they're still employed.

If I did my job as well as the mass of TPS teachers I would be in prison and rightfully so.


It's amazing, isn't it? The cognitive dissonance of the union class. They truly believe their system functions well, which is how they justify collecting their huge paychecks, benefits packages, and retirements. But outside their paperwork-centric system, their work is clearly failing, since the performance of TPS students is so dismal.

The equivalent of what's going on in the TPS is if we had a car company whose cars broke down constantly on the road, but the factory were they were produced had all the paperwork in order, was well lit, and had clean floors.

I have no real idea what TPS teachers consider an incompetent teacher. I can only posit that he or she is a person who departs from procedure and actually tries to educate. That would make them enemies within any unionized system.

improve test scores is to require all teachers, administrators and board members to enroll their children in a TPS school. All teachers who have school age children should be required to enroll their children in the school where they teach or in that learning district. In other words, if you teach at Pickett, (Jones-K-8) you would be required to enroll your k-8 student at Jones and if you have a high school aged child, that child would be enrolled at Scott. Win - Win situation. Enrollment increases, $5800 per child from the state, teachers would give credibility to their teaching skills along with the teaching skills of their colleagues.

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