What Ohio Needs, Too

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It seems the democrat legislators in Wisconsin have fled the State, like what happened once in Texas. That time, the Texas Rangers found their democrats, partying in a Holiday Inn like it was 1999. First-goodbye and good riddance. Last, why don't the democrats in Ohio/Toledo do the same thing?

No votes yet

It's Wisconsin, not Minnesota. Good for them. 25,000 protesters at the the statehouse in Madison. School employees have shut down many districts (including Madison) for the second day in a row by calling in sick. I hope public employees in Wisconsin shut down the whole damned state. It will happen in Ohio, too, if push comes to shove.

Calling in sick enough to shut down the schools, eh? There are hordes of teacher candidates looking for work while that bullshit is going on. Walker should pull a Reagan, fire them all like those PATCO fuckers, and pull in the hordes of candidates to work the next day. All being new teachers, the payrolls will plummet, hence saving the taxpayers a lot of money.

I don't understand why states send the cops looking for them, so they leave-so what? So the public workers go on strike-so what to that too? For every person that won't work, there are hundreds who will. Do the math.

you think all public employees are unskilled workers? Do you have any idea how many of them are required to have to college degrees? They couldn't begin to fill all the jobs if those people walked. Replacing teachers alone would cripple the state. What about the Department of Transportation? You think you can pull an engineering degree out of a Crackerjack box? And what about social workers, public health employees (nurses), etc. Even convicts have the right to state-provided health care. The list goes on and on.

Replacing teachers is easy, you drama queen. People are so desperate for work in the teaching profession that they move across the nation just for the chance to get into a school system that's hiring.

The unemployment rate is approaching Great Depression levels. There's plenty of idled labor in the nation, and YES, even with degrees.

You're just shit-scared that unionized wankers are finally getting their comeuppance.

Is it because the Democratic Senators are exploiting parliamentary rules to halt pending legislation? And are they doing this because dragging out the process might result in public opinion swaying in their favor?

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

at least one member of the opposing political party to be in attendance in order to vote on any legislation. I'd say they're well on their way to swaying public opinion. They're seeking compromise at this point - hardly an unreasonble expectation. People may be surprised at the strength and fortitude of American workers when their backs are against the wall. They won't stand for having this shit rammed down their throats without one hell of a fight.

Except that "compromise" is still very much part of the problem. Government costs too much money to operate. It must be downsized one way or another. Of course, Liberal assholes rather that the paychecks keep flowing... but we taxpayers have another idea: Fire employees or reduce their wages.

Someone should put their pictures on milk cartons, like they did in Texas. BTW, similar trouble has spread to Columbus:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/17/colle...

Welcome to Egypt 2.0

they're in Illinois, probably in Chicago, hanging out in Daley's office. All fourteen of them were together during an interview on the Ed Show tonight, and they made it clear they're not going back yet. Thank you, Governors Walker and Kasich, for the greatest shot in the arm organized labor has had in years. Keep up the good work, boys. BTW, Kasich, don't be too sure who's gonna be driving that bus you keep talking about.

"The Ed Show", is the crown jewel of liberal idiocy. Or is it Rachel Madcow?

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Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

This is just a prime example of where the teacher's and politicians hearts really lie.

Do they care about their students? No. They walked out on them.

Did the Democrats care about representing their constituents? No. They walked out on them.

This backfired in Texas and it will backfire in Wisconsin.

There are plenty of people looking for work to replace all of them. This is not the economy to dig your heels in and not take a cut in pay/benefits. Lilypad thinks this is a "shot in the arm" of organized labor. No. This is what breaks the back of organized labor. There are too many people out of work to not hold those with jobs accountable.

The Governor should order the teachers back to work or give them pink slips and the Wisconsin Supreme Court should order the State Legislature to execute it's oath and return to the capital.

This was a HUGE mistake by the Dems. I hope they hold out longer. They look like children who refuse to play when they don't get their way.

MikeyA

But those same libs pulled every trick in the book to stay and vote on health care

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

This opinion really puts this whole thing into perspective.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870465770457615011181742800...

MikeyA

Protesters up to 40,000 at statehouse today. Schools shut down for third straight day. Dem senators could be gone for weeks.

Walker (and Kasich) are part of a GOP-organized full-frontal assault on American labor. Come on workers, let's go back to the good old days. Work your asses off for pennies and then head for your boss's house on Saturday to paint his fence for free so you can keep your job. The middle class has become a huge pain in our rich asses. They're dangerous and we need to get rid of them. Money is power and power is control.

because there has been no better advertising for why more states should be following Wisconsin, Ohio, etc. than the useful idiots gathering in Madison and Columbus. And what most of you fail to realize is that all you are is nothing more than a means to an end to the pimps heading up your various unions.

While we're here though, please tell me what about Governor Walker's proposal amounts to a full-frontal assault on American labor?

  1. Public employees would fund 50% of the annual pension payment (would only require a contribution of 5.8% of 2011's salary).
  2. Public employee would contribute 12.6% towards their health care coverage.
  3. Unions could still represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above the Consumer Price Index unless approved by public referendum.
    • Now that's a novel idea, let the public have a say in public employee unions.
  4. Unions could not force workers to pay dues.
  5. Unions would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

In addition, if this plan is implemented, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs.

It appears the only assault actually occurring is one against the American tax payer who has finally woken up and is sick of footing the bill.

What pad fails to realize is that they pay nothing all there asking for is a 5.8 percent obligation. Unbelievably greedy.....

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

What happens when you don't fulfill your oath?

LOL, You get recalled! http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/02/groups-exploring-recalls-of-holper... The people that put them into power want them to do their obligation and not hole up at a resort in Rockford.

"Dem senators could be gone for weeks." What do you want to bet these two will be back to work within the week?

MikeyA

"While we're here though, please tell me what about Governor Walker's proposal amounts to a full-frontal assault on American labor?"

4.Unions could not force workers to pay dues.
How are unions supposed to function if you cut off their income?

5.Unions would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
Why? Explain the logic in this one.

You just helped answer your own question.

"In addition, if this plan is implemented, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs." Translation: Do as you're told and we'll let you keep your job.

BTW, the Wisconsin legislature helped create their own mess by handing out $117 million in tax cuts to business.

You've got to be kidding me.

Both 4 and 5 speak to services. Workers could hold the unions accountable. OMG what an amazing concept.

If a worker doesn't feel the union is giving the services they could refuse to pay dues and vote against the union.

The logic in that is it's breaking the stranglehold unions have tried to enforce. Things like cardcheck and the NLB parlamentary rule changes have tried to change organizing rules to a majority vote of those present and NOT the majority vote of all workers. That means if 22 people out of 100 show up to a meeting and the other 78 are: working, at school, have no childcare, virtually any reason that can prevent someone from doing something, are then beholden to a union that less than 25% of the people it affects voted on.

That is insanity. Yet it's the changes the unions have pushed through the last two years. Now explain the logic in THAT!

MikeyA

You've got to be kidding ME. In the first place, we're talking about PUBLIC sector unions. There's no closed shop in the public sector. No one has to join, yet the majority chooses to. You make it sound like these folks are involuntarily forced into union membership. But you're wrong. The unions are the bargaining agents because the majority wants them to be - both members and non members. Collective bargaining elections are held fairly - the unions don't run them. Reasonable accommodations have to be made for everyone to vote over a set period of time (usually days).

And that's what grinds the asses of the Republicans. People want to belong to unions, so the GOP has no choice but to resort to legislative end runs to try and get rid of them.

Come back when you have a clue what you're talking about.

Lillypad I have no problem with collective bargaining agreements in trade unions to protect unions against companies.

So who are public unions supposted to protected their workers from? The public?

Public employees have enough rules and laws to protect them that collective bargaining is not needed. I am a public employee, I do not need a union, I'm already protected.

Please if I don't have a clue then please explain WHY public employees NEED collective bargaining?

MikeyA

if you had been a state employee in the early '70s like I was, when there were no unions or collective bargaining rights, you wouldn't even have to ask this question. If you don't need a union or collective bargaining you can thank those who came before you who fought for the rights you have now and are still fighting to keep them.

OK so your post ammounted to essentially nothing. What was so bad then vice now?

My job has NEVER had a collective bargaining agreement and never will. And it's more efficient than most government beaurocracies. And no I don't have to thank anyone for the rights I have now. In fact, the rest of the government employees should be thanking us because the military has led the way in most of the positive changes in goverment employees.

MikeyA

you're well taken care of. You're right, you don't need any help.

What grinds the asses of the republicans is common sense in the fact the country is broke and we can't afford you anymore...And I'm not a republican...fyi

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

and I'm not a union member... FYI.

for showing us that your concern is not really for American labor, but only for the American labor union. And while you will probably try to deny it, your words (in bold) tell a different story...

4.Unions could not force workers to pay dues.
How are unions supposed to function if you cut off their income?
- Who cares. If you were truly concerned for the worker, you would support their ability to choose whether or not they want to join and therefore pay dues to a union.

5.Unions would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
Why? Explain the logic in this one.
- The only thing illogical about this in your inability to understand the concept of letting workers make their own decisions. Again, if you were truly concerned for the worker, you would support their ability to determine whether or not being unionized was beneficial, and if not, to de-certify the union via a vote of the workers.

And while you may think that business tax cuts helped create the current $137 million shortfall (probably because that was what you were told to say), you would, for the most part, be incorrect. Any projected decline in tax revenue due to tax cuts (which aren't even in effect yet) will not show up until the next two-year budget starting July 2011.

How are unions supposed to function if you cut off their income?

seeing as how unions are a For-Profit orginazation just like any other business, how 'bout we just say they put out a service that folks are willing to pay for? and like any other For-Profit institution, if that product or service is viable, people will pay for it - if folks dont like what the unions are offering, then they dont pay for it and then the union will fail and another one who IS giving the desired service will take its place...

Kind of a 'outside the box' way of looking at the offering of a service to you union folks I know, but give it some thought...

What's the alternative to organized representation? There isn't any. Workers would be left at the mercy of employers. That would be great in a perfect world, but employers don't play nice in the real world. They're interested in profits, not the welfare of their workers. American business is the reason organized labor exists.

Yet the alternative works and has worked successfully for so many industries.

"They're interested in profits, not the welfare of their workers." Yes because PROFITS were the focus in government and that's why we need unions for public employees.

Name me one unionized industry that is doing well right now. Oh.... wait... do the guys who make "Out of Business" signs, are they unionized?

MikeyA

Why is it that someone feels they have to join a Union? Can't make it on your own? Need someone to tell you what you will be paid? Too afraid to ask the boss for a raise on your own? Or, do you know that your job performance will NOT GET YOU A RAISE because you are such a sub-standard worker?

And, as you said, employers are interested in profit. And a good worker, one that performs the job better, faster and more accurately is profitable. It's cheaper for an employer to hire one good worker than two lazy workers.

That is why Unions are in decline. They promote laziness. Why would you work harder, faster and/or better than the guy next to you? No matter how efficient you are, no matter how devoted to performance you are, no matter how smart you are, YOU will be paid the same as the drooling moron who picks his nose but has the same Union contract that you do.

Want to succeed in life? QUIT the Union and depend on yourself. Unless you are that drooling moron who picks his nose.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

I'm pretty sure that neither you, nor any of the other anti-union people who post here, really know squat about unions, their history, or why they have existed for more than a century in this country. Your statement about unions promoting laziness belies the generalized ignorance of the talking heads who pull your strings. I enjoy having intelligent discussions with thinking people who have real knowledge of the subject matter. The tired rhetoric you and your ilk spew ad nauseam on this board, on this subject in particular, is short-sighted and boring.

Spoken like a true liberal, flaming progressivism, I know that the unions are bankrupting this country that’s what I know about unions. You contradict yourself, you enjoy having an an intelligent discussion with thinking people, but you call it rhetoric if they don't see it your way. This sums your statement up (go look in the mirror and say I'm not a liar you are...

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

The truth is, rich fat cats and their financial deregulation set up the U.S. for the economic disaster a couple years ago. The current financial mess is a direct result of the fall-out from that deregulation. The notion of unions having the ability to bankrupt America is absurd to the point of silliness. You've been duped.

"truth is, rich fat cats" Now we're talking tired old rhetoric.

MikeyA

Financial intuitions, mortgages, granted, and unions there bankrupting states as well.

"DTOM" {1776} " We The People" {1791}

BULLSH*T!

My father was a union employee for over 35 years.

When he had a heart attack his doctor wouldn't clear him to do his normal job. Per the contract the company, although they wanted to give him another "job" until he was cleared, was not allowed to give him a desk job. Instead they were REQUIRED to send him home and give him a monthly stipend, about $300 a month (a fraction of his normal monthly income) oh yeah out of that the union still took their $70 dues.

Thank God my parents planned and had money saved that they could survive. They almost lost their house, my brothers and I gave them grocery money to help them. Did the union look out for him? No. And he wasn't a public employee. He was a skilled worker.

Yes I do have real knowledge on the subject. I lived it. Today you will find no one more anti-union then my father who worked for a union his whole life. The company he worked for took care of him. The union, looked out for the union. This is not "tired rhetoric" these are the facts of my life.

MikeyA

I would have to look at your father's contract to comment on your personal situation. Union contracts are negotiated for the overall benefit of ALL the people they represent. You can't please everyone all the time. Sure, it sucks, but reality sucks sometimes. You're a guy with a personal axe to grind. It doesn't make you any more qualified on the subject than any other average joe.

In my father's words had he not told them of his heart attack and brought a joint in to work he would have sat at home on full pay for a year waiting for the union and the company to settle his case. Then just prior to getting fired he could apply for retirement and not have lost any money.

Again I assert that unions only truly look out for unions. But your assertion that I am ignorant of anything about unions and my opinion being "tired rhetoric" is categorically false. My family, was very much a union family. It was unions who turned us away from them through their own actions.

MikeyA

double post deleted

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

you're still clueless. Obviously, you either didn't read or understand my previous post regarding public sector organizing. I'm not going to explain it again.

They rest of us, including those who have no job, are just as deserving of being taken care of as any union worker. We're all taking it up the ass right now, now it's the unions' turn. Bend over and grab 'em, as they say.

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