Time to Leave Toledo

I decided its time to leave. I work out of town in Detroit because there are no decent paying jobs in Toledo. Mayor Bell is suggesting taxing me for this reason. I can't afford both Detroit and Toledo income tax. Police.Fire protection is going to be reduced and my insurance man said insurance rates in Toledo are going up. Two people over the weekend were shot trying to commit robberies no doubt because they need food and money. This environment is no place trying to raise 2 kids. I already pay for private schools because of the problems with TPS. All being said for what I pay extra now I can settle in a pretty nice area outside of Toledo without all putting up with the problems that exist in Toledo. I will miss the city, I have lived here all my life but things change and so must we.

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I may be right behind you, brother. I live in Toledo and all of my employers are based outside the city. If they revoke reciprocity I will be on the hook for about an extra $1,000 in taxes, and I will have to weigh the costs of staying in Toledo versus selling my house and moving to a city that does not punish its citizens with onerous taxes.

And we both know that the revocation of reciprocity will not be "temporary" as they claim. Once a government entity gets used to a new revenue stream, it becomes almost impossible to wean it off that cash.

This is one of the most bass-ackwards approaches to revenue I can recall: politicians are usually more likely to stick it to people who have no vote in the matter (like out-of-towners who work in the city). In this case the city will be targeting productive residents who vote, which suggests that the pols simply have no fear of voting booth payback.

"When the lights go out in the city" and the Toledo Fat Lady has sung, it's time to go. I am preparing my home for the Spring market. I am afraid I will not find a buyer...I mean, who the hell wants to live here anymore? I may just end up having to rent it or lease to buy or maybe ebay. Unfortunatly I work for a large corporation located in Downtown Toledo. They just aquired their Corporate HQ building so I do not see them leaving soon. Which means, I will still be on the hook for Toledo Income Tax. I will watch as people who will not be affected by tax increases vote to raise mine. I will watch as my tax dollar is used to provide for those capable but unwilling to work , school their kids and pick up their garbage. I will watch as my check is decimated trying to pay the pension of public employess while I cannot afford to contribute to my own retirement. I will watch as citizens need to buy a gun for protection because the Police are either unable or unwilling (because they are pissed off) to do so. I will watch as roads deteriorate beyond repair and vacant homes burn leaving a constant orange glow over the Toledo skyline. I will watch as seagulls encircle the airspace waiting to pounce on the litter strewn neighborhoods. I will watch as industries bypass Toledo for the more business friendly suburbs or states. I will "watch" because I will be gone.

I leave you with this quote from Thomas Jefferson ..."The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not."

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

Wikipedia:"Although he was born into one of the wealthiest families in North America, Thomas Jefferson was deeply in debt when he died." Sounds like another "great American" who said one thing while doing the opposite. He continued to live lavishly, piling up debt (like a Republican administration),and then left his debtors screwed.

Old South End Broadway

(like a Republican administration

Come off it...

That explains Jeffersons DEBT when he died. 'He continued to live lavishly, piling up debt (like the true Democrat he was),and then left his debtors screwed.' But don't worry, I'm sure he got a bailout too.
.
The Democratic Party was founded by Jefferson and Jefferson was the first Democrat President ever elected.

"Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic Party in 1792 as a congressional caucus to fight for the Bill of Rights and against the elitist Federalist Party. In 1798, the "party of the common man" was officially named the Democratic-Republican Party and in 1800 elected Jefferson as the first Democratic President of the United States."
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/history.html

I'll bet he is rolling over in his grave to see what Pelosi, Reid and Obama have done to his political party.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Libs, you need to do some homework. Thomas Jefferson is generally considered to be a darling by today's fiscal conservatives and libertarians, and he is as close to a prototype of a classical liberal (i.e., Adam Smith) as you can find.

Here is a website with Jeffferson's views on the national debt. While Jefferson's personal debts were indeed heavy, he was very far from the caricature of a free-spending modern liberal that you like to bash on this site.

Also: many views of the early Democratic party are more in line with modern-day Republicans than modern-day Democrats. Read up on Jeffersonian democracy and educate yourself.

The Louisiana Purchase being a case in point. It has worked well for us today, but it was given birth to as a bastard piece of legislation. But whether this nation would even exist today without moving in what some saw as an unconstitutional act is something to mull over. Perhaps we would have secured by might what we achieved through purchase. Or perhaps France would have poured treasure and people into an area that would have given her far greater wealth than she secured in her "scramble" for African colonies.

Old South End Broadway

Are you really going to argue that paying three cents an acre for this land was fiscally irresponsible, OldSouthEnd Brdy, at a time when land in the Ohio valley was going for about $1.00 an acre? Even with the Loisiana Purchase Jefferson reduced the national debt by 25 percent during his term in office.

Or are you just arguing for the sake of argument to defend your dubious assessment of Jefferson as fiscally irresponsible based solely on his personal financial troubles? We could do this all day, but you are just going to look silly - just cut your debating losses and move on. Jefferson's reputation as a fiscal conservative is pretty airtight, despite his personal failures.

He's arguing because he's bored and more than a little dense.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Best laugh of the day, thank you.

...the constitutionality of the issue. He had argued against actions of this type, in his stand against Hamilton. The fact that he then was able to put aside his scruples and engage in the purchase shows me he is a pragmatic person, not some fool who stands by words that are outdated.

This argument might also apply to our current president. People are trying to hold him to words he said during the campaign. And yet the actions he takes in the future might contradict those words because of changes in the world.

Old South End Broadway

...was fiscally irresponsible (except in his private life). I guess I was none too clear. I believe this thread started out as a quote from Jefferson that I found rather humorous "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not."

I threw in the reference to "like a Republican administration" because I am riled by a party that has spent us into bankruptcy so that "social programs" would no longer be possible.

Then Libs weighed in with his anti-Democrat barbs while you pointed out that Jefferson was fiscally conservative. I then continued the thread pointing out that Jefferson held a position that he was willing to abandon when circumstances warranted (enumerated powers vs. the need to acquire the Louisiana territory to prevent war with France). His purchase of Louisiana and the central territory was a very good deal although after further exploration some came to refer to the western Great Plains as the Great American Desert which seems to indicate they weren't too sure about the value of the purchase. Even today, we may be on the brink of returning part of the region over the Ogallala Aquifer back to the Great American Desert.

Old South End Broadway

in selling your houses...

It doesn't require luck. It requires honesty. In such a mode, you realize that if your house doesn't sell, then the price is too high. Keep lowering the price until it sells.

Of course, you're competing with a büttload of foreclosures. I have no sympathy, since people were enjoying credit-instigated price increases in housing while industry FLED the area. The prices that these smug bästards were demanding in 2002 were just criminal.

So Toledo houses have a fairly large discount already built in, and any attempt to sell will expose that discount to the market.

Maybe you all should just turn off HGTV and face what you need to face. I had to rent while you were all playing like little Trumps with bank credit that was created from thin air. There had to be blowback from that, and now it's here. Frankly, I'm enjoying it now. I bought at a wonderful discount, and I'm counting on my assessed value to DROP, not increase. After all, why would I want the assessment to increase? I have to pay TAXES on that increase, and that does me no good whatsoever.

In the larger scope of things, the affordability of housing in Toledo is improving, as dropped prices allow people with cash to bypass the enslavement process (i.e. mortgage, which is just the renting of money from a bank). I just don't see any of this as being bad. The people who were revoltingly smug over the last generation, are now getting slapped down. The people who were wise and saved money, can now enjoy a low cost of living. It doesn't get any better than this.

Here's two possible solutions to the Toledo budget problem. Sell the city OR privatize the management from the mayor on down. The leaders seem to like privatization so lets take it to the next level. It wouldn't cost $100000.00 to employ a contractor for management services. Another idea is have Mike Bell give up his salary and live off his fat public pension until things turn around

Detroit's income tax rate is only 1.25%. Are you saying that you aren't going to pay more on top of the 1% (2.25%-1.25%) that you are already paying Toledo or are you saying that Toledo doesn't know that you work in Detroit and you are paying Toledo nothing?

Under the current law, you get credit for the 1.25% that you pay Detroit, but you are still responsible for the remaining 1%.

No s**t, the founder of the democrat party was founded by a slaveowner?

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