Health Reform Government Style

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Pink Slip

BMV style healthcare. Glad someone is trying to pull a tie out from under the railroad. Because if this passes Healthcare will be more expensive and worse than ever. Oh let's just look at the utter failures that Canada and Britain government health care system are, nope don't want that.

....as to why you think the Canadian healthcare system or Britain's are utter failures? And why you think that they are worse than our own?

They have better healthcare systems than the US

Pink Slip

LOL

LOL, you are soo blind. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.

The problem with socialism is, eventually you run out of other peoples money!

It's true--you can look it up (37th in the world)--behind England & Canada, etc....spending far more money and getting worse outcomes.

Or you can just continue to consult with the Limbaugh gang of fundamentalists..."government baaaaaad".

Pink Slip

Since when is following the Constitution Bad?

Oh, BTW, so why do so many people come to the US to have surgeries, etc., when supposedly the best health care is abroad?

Quit suckling at the teet of Big Gov, its nothing but poison.

Who's not following the Constitution?

"why do so many people come to the US to have surgeries, etc., when supposedly the best health care is abroad?"

More people LEAVE the US for healthcare, than the handful that come here

Pink Slip

Ha HA HAHAHAHAHAHA

I am literally laughing out loud to that one here at work.

You are such a fool if you believe that one. God help you and your family!!!

This is what I expected from you--an inability to debate. You make no case for yourself, whereas I have the facts on my side. Do you even know how many people come to the US for healthcare? Let me know when you find out. I won't hold my breath.

Pink Slip

Where are they then? Are they really?

In 2007, over 750,000 Americans left the US for medical treatment.

http://www.medicaltourisminsight.com/

Actually--according to this study, 1 million Californians travel to Mexico each year for healthcare. Either way, it's MUCH larger than the number that come here.

Pink Slip

Don't forget all the people who are/were getting their prescriptions from Canada because the same medication here in the US was way more then they were able to afford.

Baldy Says,
Oh, BTW, so why do so many people come to the US to have surgeries, etc., when supposedly the best health care is abroad?
Here's what your hero says about health care.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation

Statements made are the opinion of the writer who is exercising his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and are generally permitted.

Again, wolfman, beck's individual experience with one hospital being taken out of context with the overall debate.

"Like a bad marksman you keep missing the target"

There are medical tourists going back AND forth in the world, looking for more affordable procedures (hint: not in the USA), rare procedures, and procedures not illegal in their home nations.

The point is that "quality of care" is a multidimensional measurement, which includes things like ACCESS TO CARE, which the USA is particularly poor at. THAT is why we ended up with the most expensive system in the world (per-capita), yet we only have a quality level as measured by the WHO of about #37. That means that 36 other nations in the world deliver better quality of OVERALL service, for less money per-capita. That's a STUNNING condemnation of our system.

Socialized medicine is not unconstitutional.

The U.S. Constitution speaks of providing for the general welfare. Obviously health care complies with that. In addition, all levels of government have regulated health care; further, all levels of government have generally taxed and then provided health care. Medicare is the famous example. In Lucas County, we have CareNet. So the facts are clear and the precedent is set.

If Medicare was truly unconstitutional, then why didn't your beloved Republicans do away with it in 2001-2006 when they had such singular control of the U.S. Congress? ANSWER ME!

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090809/OPINION02/908090305

"JUST as the national debate over health-care reform enters a critical stage, along comes a national study pointing out that obesity adds $147 billion every year to the cost of health care in this country.

 

Indeed, it will be surprising if members of Congress - already cowering from the prospect of any sort of tax increase to pay for broader health insurance - don't latch onto the study's inconvenient conclusion as one more example of why we can't afford reform.

 

If that happens, you can pretty much blame the expanding number of Americans who have steadily ignored the urgent need to get proper exercise and to avoid eating too many processed, convenience, and fast foods.

 

Ironically, much of the national bulge has occurred since about 1993, the last time health-care reform became a national issue - and lost.

 

The fact that a large proportion of people make bad choices when it comes to what they eat is well documented. According to a recent report on CNN, only 8 percent of Americans don't do things right, that is, they don't smoke, drink moderately, and exercise regularly. Not surprisingly, 73 percent of adults are either overweight (have a body mass index of 25 to 29.9) or obese (have a BMI of 30 or more).

 

Americans consume an average of 250 more calories per day than they did two decades ago. That's 26 extra pounds to burn off every year just to stay even. And medical costs associated with the resulting obesity have nearly doubled in less than a decade.

It is easy and convenient to point fingers at the gargantuan portions offered by many restaurants, the proliferation of fast-food joints that offer calorie-rich fare at skinny prices, more sedentary jobs, longer commutes, TV, and video games. But the truth is that restaurants, while they know the addictive nature of fat, salt, and sugar, don't force customers to keep shoveling in the food.

 

In addition, people often choose to drive when they could walk and to watch TV or play video games when they could be outside, doing something active.

 

The extra weight Americans are packing leads to numerous and often avoidable health problems: heart disease, diabetes, stroke, high blood pressure, heart failure, kidney problems, and arthritis. As Congress debates health-care reform, the question becomes: Who will foot the bill?

 

Already, there are a proliferation of proposals - taxing sugary drinks, charging the obese more for airline tickets, higher rates for health and life insurance - that would defray the cost essentially by punishing people for being overweight.

 

While such solutions might have the unfortunate side effect of burdening people who have genuine medical problems that contribute to obesity, they cannot be ruled out. They arise from the same, valid line of reasoning used to justify higher taxes on tobacco products and penalize smoking, another certifiably bad habit that drives up health costs.

 

While the debate over health-care reform has focused mainly on the cost and how to pay for it, what's been missing is any real discussion of the preventive component - how to avoid weight-related maladies in the first place.

 

On this topic, President Obama cannot say he wasn't warned.

 

When candidate Obama visited Toledo on Feb. 24, 2008, as part of a campaign swing, Blade Publisher and Editor-in-Chief John Robinson Block presented him with a copy of Healthy Heart - Lifestyle Guide and Cookbook, produced by the Cleveland Clinic.

 

In the foreword to that highly informative volume, Dr. Steven Nissen, chairman of cardiovascular medicine at the Clinic's foundation, wrote that if everyone would follow its guidelines, heart disease and diabetes would decline, people would live longer and need less medical care, whole hospital wings would have to close, and "I and most of my colleagues would be thrown out on the streets unemployed. It would be the happiest day of my life."

 

In short, choosing a healthier lifestyle is the best way to hold down medical bills for everyone. Failure to heed that message may turn out to be the deciding factor in whether health-care reform succeeds this time.

 

Are you listening this time, Mr. President? Are you listening, members of Congress?"

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined safe by the food and drug administration..

...At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I got into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposited my mail I had to be sent out via the US postal service and dropped the kids off at the public school...

..After work, I drove my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which had not burnt down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which had not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then logged on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and posted on the freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right."

No different than then idiot teabagging seniors holding up “I don’t want government controlled Medicare” signs at townhall events.

Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations—of "death panels" and forced euthanasia—are, of course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it: "No 'death panel' in health care bill."4 What's the real deal? Reform legislation includes a provision, supported by the AARP, to offer senior citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older Americans.5

Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's reform plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options.6 Included in the exchange is the public health insurance option—a nationwide plan with a broad network of providers—that will operate alongside private insurance companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and costs down.7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But the new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or individuals who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health care now.

Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!

The truth: Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage, what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or medicine is covered—that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop that.

Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious aspects of this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing conditions, insurers that cancel coverage when you get sick, gender discrimination, and lifetime and yearly limits on coverage.9 And outside of that, as noted above, reform will increase insurance options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.

Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare benefits!!!

The truth: Health care reform plans will not reduce Medicare benefits.10 Reform includes savings from Medicare that are unrelated to patient care—in fact, the savings comes from cutting billions of dollars in overpayments to insurance companies and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.11

Lie #5: Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!

The truth: We need health care reform now in order to prevent bankruptcy—to control spiraling costs that affect individuals, families, small businesses, and the American economy.

Right now, we spend more than $2 trillion dollars a year on health care.12 The average family premium is projected to rise to over $22,000 in the next decade13—and each year, nearly a million people face bankruptcy because of medical expenses.14 Reform, with an affordable, high-quality public option that can spur competition, is necessary to bring down skyrocketing costs. Also, President Obama's reform plans would be fully paid for over 10 years and not add a penny to the deficit.15

We're closer to real health care reform than we've ever been—and the next few weeks will decide whether it happens. We need to make sure the truth about health care reform is spread far and wide to combat right wing lies.

Can you forward this email to your friends today? And remember, also post it on Facebook by clicking here: http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51746. And on Twitter, by retweeting: @MoveOn Check out the Top 5 Health Care Lies—and How to Fight Back. http://bit.ly/Bncs5

Thanks for all you do.

–Nita, Kat, Ilya, Michael and the rest of the team

P.S. Want more? Check out this great new White House "Reality Check" website: http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/ or this excellent piece from Health Care for America Now on some of the most outrageous lies: http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51729&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=1

Sources:

1. "More 'Town Halls Gone Wild': Angry Far Right Protesters Disrupt Events With 'Incomprehensible' Yelling," Think Progress, August 4, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51733&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=2

2. "Fight the smears," Health Care for America NOW, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51729&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=3

3. "Palin Paints Picture of 'Obama Death Panel' Giving Thumbs Down to Trig," ABC News, August 7, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51728&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=4

4. "No 'death panel' in health care bill," The Associated Press, August 10, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51747&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=5

5. "Stop Distorting the Truth about End of Life Care," The Huffington Post, July 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51730&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=6

6. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 11, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#i1

7. "Why We Need a Public Health-Care Plan," The Wall Street Journal, June 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51737&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=7

8. "Obama: 'If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor,'" The Wall Street Journal, 15, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51736&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=8

9. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#r1

10. "Obama: No reduced Medicare benefits in health care reform," CNN, July 28, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51748&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=9

11. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#s1

12. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#c1

13. "Premiums Run Amok," Center for American Progress, July 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51667&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=10

14. "Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies," CNN, June 5, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51735&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=11

15. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#c1

Sources for the Five Lies:

#1: "A euthanasia mandate," The Washington Times, July 29, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51732&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=12

#2: "It's Not An Option," Investor's Business Daily, July 15, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51743&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=13

#3: "Rationing Health Care," The Washington Times, April 21, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51742&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=14

#4: "60 Plus Ad Is Chock Full Of Misinformation," Media Matters for America, August 8, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51734&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=15

#5: "Obama's 'Public' Health Plan Will Bankrupt the Nation," The National Review, May 13, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51744&id=16782-9776155-hq8MeSx&t=16

Funniest post of the day. I still can't stop laughing.

MikeyA

Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!

Funny, we've got LibsBlowMe over in another thread arguing that we need to ration care to 45+ Americans.

I am on another thread posting articles, supporting links, and documentation saying that ObamaCare WILL ration healthcare to the elderly, cut Medicare and also WILL DEMAND THAT FAT PEOPLE LOOSE WEIGHT before ObamaCare pays the first dollar of your medical claims.

No wonder the country is in such trouble. Voters like you cannot read, lie like a rug and lap up the DNC supplied BS the way a dog eats it's own vomit.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

You linked to a Blade article that doesn't even quote the President. I've read more of the 1000 page health care plan then most Republican congressmen and I don't remember anything about fat people.

I just did a PDF search and "obese" doesn't appear at all. You're reading and hearing what you want to hear with your wing nut decoder ring. You are divorced from reality.

Also - still doesn't take away from the fact that you support the rationing of health care for over 45 million Americans. You spewed it yourself.

The Canadian system works VERY WELL! You keep your own doctor! Health care professionals make medical decisions, NOT INSURANCE COMPANIES!!

We have rationed care in the U.S. now! We have bureaucrats telling my doctor where he can send me, and for what care and what medications they will pay! We ration care in our country by the ability to pay. The bureaucrats I refer to are insurance bureaucrats.

Real life examples: #1 -- My wife and I received letters recently from our "Primary Care Physician" [PCP]. He stated that he, NOW, only has privileges at the UT Medical Center, and he will only directly refer to specialists, from now on, at the UT Medical Center. After decades of independence, the current system is tying his hands!!

#2 -- Our daughter inherited asthma from me, lucky woman! She went to her PCP to see about a better pharmaceutical regimen. I suggested that she ask about Singulair, since it seems to be working well for me. She brought this up to her PCP. He said, "Oh, your insurance company doesn't like to pay for Singulair". Medical decisions should be made by our own personal doctors, not by insurance bureaucrats!!

First of all, the current proposed plan is a government option NOT TO RUN MEDICAL PRACTICES OR FACILITIES, but as an option in lieu of traditional INSURANCE! I will keep my own doctors!! And so will you!! We are supposed to encourage competition, but the private insurance companies are AFRAID of REAL competition! If the government plan proves to be a poor one, GUESS WHAT? People will opt for a private plan!! It's called COMPETITION!! If they're such wonderful private sector, "free market" enthusiasts, why are the insurance companies so worried? And don't tell me that the insurance companies give a rat's pitoot about you or me!

We are being used now by the insurance bureaucarts, over whom we have NO control. I'll take my chances with government bureaucrats, instead, who are ultimately answerable to elected officials over whom WE have control!!

Of all the industrialized nations in the world, the United States is the only one with NO national government health care program, and we rank dead last in life expectancy, and many other measures of overall public health.

Do we have an excellent system of health care in the United States? YES!! If you can afford it!

Real life example #3 -- A very close friend of ours is an RN. She has a friend who, overall, is very healthy and slender. Friends and family became concerned because her abdomen was growing noticeably larger over a period of several months. Finally, some of them absolutely insisted that she see a doctor. She said that she simply could not afford to go. Her abdomen grew so large that she finally went. She had surgery to remove a 38 POUND GROWTH. The RN did not know if her friend's tumor was malignant or not.

If Americans, and we have an estimated 40-50 million Americans without health care coverage, do not go as often as they should to doctors because of the potential cost, the eventual costs can skyrocket. In addition, how do we measure the extra pain and suffering caused by putting off NECESSARY TREATMENT?

The fact that ALL OF THE OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS IN THE WORLD have a national health care program is the main reason why they ALL rank higher than the United States on most measurements of public health. My real life example #3 is a horrible example of the truth of the old saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." (In this case, 38 POUNDS to "cure") The other industrialized nations understand this. England, Canada, Japan, Germany, etc., ARE NOT COMMUNISTS!!

Another issue which is overlooked is the competitiveness of American businesses in a global economy. Nations with a national health care system remove the burden from their businesses of paying for employee health care. National health care systems are government subsidies to their international businesses. Some American companies even pay a large part of the health care costs of their retirees, a burden NOT shared in other parts of the world. Lower business health care costs will make American businesses more competitive.

My brother-in-law, an American Citizen who works for a major American company and has Healthcare through his company, went to Canada for a business trip.

While there, he had chest pains and so went to one of the larger Canadian Government run hospitals in the Vancouver metro area.

Since Canadian Healthcare will NOT pay for non-Canadian citizens, his personal insurance was paying full price.

The first 36 hours after his arrival in this Canadian Government run Hospital, still complaining about chest pains and BEING THE ONLY PERSON IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM WHO WAS ACTUALLY PAYING FULL PRICE FOR CARE, he was still in the hallway of the ER, in the same place, on the same gurney with the same sheets and NO food.

He took it upon himself, complete with chest pains, to get food from the vending machines, and help himself to the restroom.

Eventually, his Canadian counterpart came back to the hospital and found him in the same place where he had left him the day before.

My brother-in-law put his clothes back on and left, flew back to the United States where he was admitted to a privately owned American Hospital.  At the evil money-grubbing American Hospital, he was diagnosed with angina and received surgury later that day where he received a stent to open a partially blocked artery.

Had he remained in the Vancouver Hospital, the chances are he probably would have died.

True story.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Wow, he has health insurance? Pretty lucky guy....

Pink Slip

Why? You already have Social Security. According to you, you need nothing else.

Do you have internet access?

Why? That is not a necessity. Take that money and pay the bills first. Including health insurance.

Do you have a boat?

Why? That is not a necessity. Take that money and pay the bills first. Including health insurance.

Do you have a car?

Why? That is not a necessity. Take that money and pay the bills first. Including health insurance.

Do you have life insurance?

Why? Don't you think the Government will take better care of you than you can take care of yourself?

Or do you just "take things as they come"? Letting other people control your life? Control your money and soon CONTROL your healthcare?

Why are you so lazy that you won't  take control of your own business?

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Who do you think will provide your health insurance when you're 70 years old?

"Who do you think will provide your health insurance when you're 70 years old?"

Well, if this new ObamaCare crap is anything like Medicare, I'm sure that we all will start being denied coverage YEARS before we turn 70.

Who do I think will provide health insurance when I'm 70 years old? Let's let Barak Houssain Obama tell us that IT COSTS A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY TO KEEP A 70 YEAR OLD ALIVE. According to Barak, it sounds like nobody will be covered by 70.

To paraphrase your hero, Barry Obama, maybe we'd all be "better off on painkillers" by then.

Here, listen to him say that.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

BloJob, what are you talking about? I've got all of those things (edit--except a boat), and I have health insurance--so f*ck you very much. I never said I didn't have health insurance.

Pink Slip

And if taking more of your money means losing your flat-screen, then that is just tough. I want free healthcare that you pay for. After all, it is for the public good.

If taking more of your money means you loose your house, that's the breaks. Sorry for you. I want free healthcare that you pay for. After all, it is for the public good.

If taking up more of your doctors time, which means your doctor will not be able to "fit you in" for an appointment until December, it sucks to be you. I want free healthcare that you pay for. After all, it is for the public good.

So you have car insurance? AND YOU PAY FOR IT YOURSELF? What are you? Some kind of f*ckin REPUBLICAN FEAR-MONGER! How dare you take care of yourself, you selfish ba$tsard! I want free healthcare that you pay for. After all, it is for the public good.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Blue Cross Gets OK To Increase Premiums 22% For Individual Market Products

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Just a year or so ago, my wife went into an emergency room AT A PRIVATE HOSPITAL right here in Toledo, Ohio. She didn't call me, because she didn't want me to worry. Yes, we have health insurance coverage. She was light headed and dizzy and had an irregular heartbeat. She waited for hours to get treated, even though the ER was not busy that day. She was NOT given food, even though one of the nurses assured her that she would be given food. It would be weeks later, after seeing a cardiologist, that her irregular heartbeats were not considered to be a serious problem.

A few years before that, a friend of mine WITH INSURANCE went to an ER at a PRIVATE HOSPITAL right here in Toledo, Ohio. It was a VERY quiet ER that day (and most days). He was in his fifties, complaining of chest pains. He was there for a few hours and they diagnosed him with a digestive tract problem. HE DIED THE NEXT DAY...RIGHT HERE IN TOLEDO, OHIO!!!

No system is perfect. But you can't argue the statistics! The U.S. spends more and we get less. If so many Europeans, Japanese, and Canadians are counseled to die, why do they live longer than we do???

You are into labeling and dismissing. It's "socialist" so it must be bad! Whatever you do, "Libs" NEVER let information or statistical analysis interfere with your ideology or your preconceived assumptions about how the world works.

I LOVE capitalism. I LOVE the free market system. I was in business with my father for 15 YEARS!! But there are some things that don't work well in the capitalist system. When corporations get too powerful, they almost always abuse their power. Teddy Roosevelt, a good Republican 100 year ago, understood this fact! And Roosevelt, wisely, used the power of government to break up the big trusts 100 years ago. We have a health insurance industry that is out of control. We need a strong governmental option to rein in their power. Can't you be at least as up-to-date as a Republican from the dawn of the LAST CENTURY??

Currently, Libs say there are around 40 million Americans without health insurance. Right?

According to Liberals, those people do not go to the doctor or hospital. Right?

Now give those 40 million people free health insurance for staying at home, making poor choices, getting fat, smoking, pushing out babies, smoking crack, eating Big Macs etc.

Then imagine how many hours or days your wife would have waited while the limited supply of doctors, who are now working for a government mandated wage, in a government mandated practice using government mandated treatment procedures with the addition of 40 million people who currently choose to buy a big screen TV instead of insurance.

You say you are in business with your father? Then I demand that your profit be controlled. I demand that your product prices be controlled. I demand that your payroll be controlled. And I demand that whatever you do follow government established procedures. Then I want to see how competative you are.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Many of those people are hard working Americans. Many companies work hard not to pay health insurance for their employees or make it cost prohibitive (ie Wal-Mart).

You are Not describing the bill that President Obama has proposed. You are describing a total fabrication of the neo-cons. The Obama plan is for a government INSURANCE option. It is NOTHING about taking over any hospital or doctor's practice.

You are, in fact, describing what the big insurance companies have done already! Most of our "private" hospitals are controlled by giant insurance corporations. Most of the hospitals are tying up physicians with exclusive and exclusionary contracts.

Finally, I resent your description of those who have no health care insurance. Many of them work two or three jobs, none of which offer health insurance. Many companies, and WalMart is one of the main culprits here, purposely schedule most of their workers for part-time work so that they don't have to provide insurance for them. Thousands of WalWart workers are on Medicaid in Ohio alone. The taxpayers of this state and of this nation subsidize WalMart and many other companies who do the same thing. And Walmart's NET PROFIT is measured in the multiple billions every year!

You obviously trust large corporations over which you and I have no control (unless you are a multi-billionaire who has a LOT of stock in those companies). You obviously don't trust our government "...of the people, by the people, for the people". I do!!

And as far as life-style is concerned, where do you get the idea that Europeans are so health conscious? They smoke at a MUCH higher rate than we do. They drink way too much alcohol! They do have very strong drunk driving laws that have cut down significantly on deaths from drunk driving. They still drink. They just avoid driving! Oh! And they ALL HAVE NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS which cost a lot less than our health care programs cost. You live in Egypt...the land of "de-Nile"!

For the record, I WAS in business. My father retired and I went into education. I have been a teacher in TPS for 33 years. I started working at my first job when I was 14 years old.

How do you have your car insured if the insurance is not offered as a perk from your company? My god! Did you have to FIND IT AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF? THAT IS UNAMERICAN! You should have had your car insurance handed to you for free.

Do people actually think that health insurance is only available from where you work?

For those of you who somehow managed to find car insurance without mommy gubberment holding your hand, HERE is a few places that offer health insurance.

http://www.affordable-health-insurance-plans.org/

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

http://www.assuranthealth.com

 

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Let's just do single payer and then companies won't have to offer it.

Also, car insurance is much more affordable then health insurance.

Like I said before, there isn't anyway that an insurance company will insure my family due to some preexisting medical conditions that aren’t the result of us doing anything wrong. On top of that they use the BMI index which is worthless. I’m 6’ and weigh 240 pounds, that’s obese to the insurance company. Never mind that I run 2-3 miles a couple days per week and lift weights…the formula says I’m obese so that’s a bunch of extra $$$ right there.

The system is broken…

BTW – what do you plan on using for medical care when you retire? Why do your parents and/or grand parents us today?

1) Let's just do single payer and then companies won't have to offer it.

There is so many things wrong with that statement, I don't know where to start. Using your logic, let's just shut down Crystler, Jeep, GM and Ford. That way people will not have to make a choice of which car to buy. We will offer one model from one manufacturer and to hell if you can fit in it or if you have 5 kids and no back seat.

Also, who cares about the THOUSANDS of employees of those insurance companies that will be forced out of business by the government. Those private insurance company ex-employees can do without their paychecks, benifits, etc. After all, healthcare will be free so they don't need jobs. And mommy gubberment has "programs" to help them pay for their houses.

I could go on and on about this one....

2) car insurance is much more affordable then health insurance. WHY?

Because mommy gubberment has made it a law that you will buy car insurance. And the FREE MARKET has driven down auto insurance rates.

http://www.gppf.org/article.asp?RT=13&p=pub/Regulation/autoins090109.htm

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-63820890.html

http://mass.gov/?pageID=pressreleases&agId=Eoca&prModName=ocapressrelease&prFile=07_11_28_autorates.xml

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=14014

Need more web examples? Do a Google search on competition drives down auto insurance

3) " there isn't anyway that an insurance company will insure my family due to some preexisting medical conditions that aren’t the result of us doing anything wrong"

Ever hear of HIPAA? The law that is supposed to prevent this kind of thing from happening? According to the Kennedy-Kassebaum Bill, H.R. 3103 of 1996, you cannot be denied coverage based on pre-existing conditions.

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq_consumer_hipaa.html

What is the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA)?
HIPAA's is a federal law that:

  • Limits the ability of a new employer plan to exclude coverage for preexisting conditions;

  • Provides additional opportunities to enroll in a group health plan if you lose other coverage or experience certain life events;

  • Prohibits discrimination against employees and their dependent family members based on any health factors they may have, including prior medical conditions, previous claims experience, and genetic information; and

  • Guarantees that certain individuals will have access to, and can renew, individual health insurance policies.

So you are saying that this bill written by Congress is not working for you? Yet you think that another bill written by Congress WILL work for you?

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

HIPPA...

Limits the ability of a new employer plan to exclude coverage for preexisting conditions;

NEW EMPLOYER...you want to eliminate employers in the mix remember?

And the rest is pretty much BS…They’ll say they’ll cover me for $3-5K per month with a huge deductible and high co-pays…it’s like having insurance.

The reason that group insurance works is because it allows people to pool resources to mitigate risk for the entire group. You give up some degree of choice, but with the caveat that you pay less overall to get what you wanted plus extra stuff than you would have to just get the stuff you wanted on your own. You cannot get more economically efficient results as an individual than you can as a group in health insurance. If you don’t believe me, try to buy a single candy bar for the same unit price you’d pay for a box of them.

It sounds like this pre-existing condition will cost too much to cover under ObamaCare.

Let's let the Government panel decide what treatment you get for your pre-existing condition. A government panel devoted to paperwork, following "rules" set by some other government panel. A government panel that doesn't look at you like a person,  but as a number.

A government entity like the DMV, the VA, the IRS or any other group that thinks you are just a number.

They don't have to even look into your eyes to tell you that you have been denied coverage and will die. They will take that choice away. Even Obama questioned why they spent money on his Grandmother BEFORE SHE DIED.

www.bloomberg.com/apps/news

A quote from Obama, “That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health-care bill out here.”

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

huh

You think that these conditions will put you to the front of the line under ObamaCare? Really???

Search for Zeke Emanuel's comments (BHO's Health Adviser). He's Rahm's brother, BTW. He thinks that we should put more money towards ages of 15-25, because they are going to be more productive, which will put a priority on who gets treatment and who doesn't. Real fair, huh?

How long do you really want to wait?

Everyone will get treatment, thats the point. Right know we say people with no inusurace don't get treatment and who have it do.

Even if there was limited resource, old people and your people would use different resource. Suddenly an old person can't get a hip replacement because all the 15 year olds used them up?

Even if there was limited resource, old people and your people would use different resource. Suddenly an old person can't get a hip replacement because all the 15 year olds used them up?

They simply wouldn't get them, because the funds would not be allocated to someone in that age bracket.

What do you base this on?

He doesn't base this on anything. He just likes to spout off the latest Limbaugh talking point, devoid of real facts.

Pink Slip

You fear-mongers blame everything on Rush Limbaugh. Do you think he is hiding under your beds in that basement?

The statement you think Limbaugh made WAS MADE BY YOUR PRESIDENT.

Here, once again I give you the link to Barry Sotero's QUOTE about his grandmothers hip replacement and how it would cost too much.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aGrKbfWkzTqc

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

I used to sell individual insurance. It's an absolute joke. To qualify you practically must have never taken any medication in your life for any condition or if you have that condition is excluded from coverage.

For example, I have asthma and allergies. The one prescription I need, Advair inhaler, would be excluded from coverage b/c it's pre-existing condition. So I would have to pay approximately $150 per month for $2000 deductible policy that didn't cover the treatment I needed.

Individual policies don't make sense. That is why people don't seek treatment when they first notice symptoms and use the ER because hospitals can't turn them away like a doctor's office can.

Wrong answer...the government doesn't run hospitals in Canada. There system is set up like ours. Hospitals are either for profits or non-profits. The only difference is they have a single payer system for paying for medical care. The only thing provided by the Canada government is health insurance.

If your brother-in-law was a bad hospital, then it’s the hospitals fault. What hospital was he at? There are only 7 or 8 major hospitals in Vancouver, assuming he didn’t go to the Children’s Hospital or the British Columbia Centre of Excellence for Women’s Health that only really leaves about 5 options and half of them are run by Christian organizations.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/contact/hosp/hospfaq_dt.html

"Funding for hospital services is governed under the authority of the Public Hospitals Act. Funding is based primarily on a principle of global (or base) funding budgets provided to each hospital annually. These budget allotments are based primarily on past allocations and annual adjustments to reflect changes in costs. In addition, special program funding is available for new/expanded programs and specialized high cost services, like cardiovascular and dialysis services and treatments.

Separate funding is also provided for capital construction projects. The hospital Board and management work with their local community to determine the most appropriate use of their funding to provide hospital programs and services to their community.

Provincial payments to hospitals constitute approximately 85 % of total hospital funding. The remaining 15 % of hospital funding is provided through a variety of sources such as charges for semi-private and private accommodation, Worker's Compensation payments, and others."

Look up the Canadian "Public Hospitals Act".

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-p40/latest/rso-1990-c-p40.html

ALSO, READ THIS ARTICLE ON FINDLAW.

"Countrywide, the non-covered portion of health spending is rising faster than the portion covered by the CHA. An Ontario Hospital Association (OHA) survey found that Ontario hospitals forecast capital needs of $8.4 billion between 2002 and 2005. The average age of Ontario hospitals is 43 years, compared to 12 years in the United States . According to the survey, 106 Ontario hospitals indicated that they require an aggregate of $4 billion to bring their facilities into good repair, $2.7 billion of which they plan to spend over the next three years.8 A report by the Fraser Institute released in March 2004 indicates that government spending on Ontario hospitals is on track to double after inflation and population growth by 2028.9 "

http://library.findlaw.com/2006/May/10/245881.html

 

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

The word you are looking for is literate…. From the link you posted it you had read it and not cherry picked…

Public hospitals in Ontario are governed by a Board of Directors and are, for the most part, incorporated under the Corporations Act.

Each hospital determines its priorities to address the needs of the communities it serves and allocates its budget accordingly.

The reason they get 85% of their funding from the government is that everyone has government health insurance! Duh!

Read it again. You say you know how to read, so do it. And notice UNDER EVERY PROVISION IN THE CANADIAN PUBLIC HOSPITALS ACT, any hospital built, expanded, financed, receiving payments MUST RECEIVE "APPROVAL OF THE MINISTER. R.S.O"

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-p40/latest/rso-1990-c-p40.html#BK3

"Private hospitals, independent health facilities not affected

2.  Nothing in this Act in any way relates to or affects a private hospital under the Private Hospitals Act or an independent health facility under the Independent Health Facilities Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 2; 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 4.

Administration and enforcement

3.  The Minister shall administer and enforce this Act and the regulations. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 3.

Approvals by Minister

Approval of incorporation, amalgamation

4.  (1)  No application to incorporate a hospital or amalgamate two or more hospitals under the Corporations Act or under a private Act shall be proceeded with until it has first received the approval of the Minister. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 4 (1); 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 5 (1).

Approval

2)  No institution, building or other premises or place shall be operated or used for the purposes of a hospital unless the Minister has approved the operation or use of the premises or place for that purpose. 1997, c. 15, s. 16.

Approval of additions

(3)  No additional building or facilities shall be added to a hospital until the plans therefor have been approved by the Minister. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 4 (3).

Approval of sales

(4)  No land, building or other premises or place or any part thereof acquired or used for the purposes of a hospital shall be sold, leased, mortgaged or otherwise disposed of without the approval of the Minister. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 4 (4).

Suspension or revocation of approval

(5)  Any approval given or deemed to have been given under this Act in respect of a hospital may be suspended by the Minister or revoked by the Lieutenant Governor in Council if the Minister or the Lieutenant Governor in Council, as the case may be, considers it in the public interest to do so. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.40, s. 4 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 5 (2).

Payments to hospitals

5.  (1)  The Minister may pay any grant, make any loan and provide any financial assistance to a hospital if the Minister considers it in the public interest to do so. 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 6.

Terms and conditions

(2)  The Minister may impose terms and conditions on grants, loans and financial assistance provided under this section and may from time to time amend or remove the terms and conditions or impose new terms and conditions. 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 6."

 

AND THE BIGGEST PARAGRAPH THAT YOU DID NOT READ (good little DNC puppet)

"Reduce or terminate grants, etc.

(4)  The Minister may reduce the amount of any grant, loan or financial assistance, may suspend or terminate any grant, loan or financial assistance or may withhold payment in whole or in part of any grant, loan or financial assistance with respect to a hospital if the Minister considers it in the public interest to do so. 1996, c. 1, Sched. F, s. 6."

In other words, since you apparently think you can read but obviously do not understand, if the Minister wants to cut off all of your financial assistance, you are screwed. How much more control of a hospital do you need than TOTAL FINANCIAL CONTROL?

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

The overall European area as a whole had a 0.1% drop in economic activity last month. This was a much better report than was expected. This indicates to analysts that Europe is about to end their economic decline. This good economic news was created because both Germany and France showed unexpected GROWTH in their Gross Domestic Product for the time period. And what do Germany and France have in common, among other things? They have universal government health care programs.

With this type of information on their side, the neo-cons would make some ridiculous statement about how this PROVES BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that universal government health care definitively improves the overall economy of a nation! I WILL NOT say that! What I will say, is the neo-cons' "doom and gloom" predictions about national health care in America ruining our economy, among many other baseless allegations, is ludicrous on its face. And, as stated in a post above, while it is not a panecea for all that ails the U.S. economy, by making American businesses more competitive in the global community, national health care will have a POSITIVE, not a negative, effect on the economy.

The United States spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in the world. According to the World Health Organization, our overall public health ranks us 37th in the world! It can't get much worse. We have to take back the health care system from the insurance corporate giants, and put medical decisions back in the hands of health care professionals! The government option, and in the current plan it is an option only, must be there to force the insurance companies to operate more efficiently and humanely.

The United States spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in the world.

This is because we take care of the elderly. We do not just providing them with drugs to make them feel comfortable and end-of-life counseling hoping they will expire sooner rather than later to ease the burden of Health Care cost associated with a National Health Care plan.

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

If they are so cold and cruel in Europe and Japan; if they counsel old people to die; why are there so many more older Europeans and Japanese? Why do they outlive us substantially??

far fewer BK's, McD's, Wendy's, Rally's,Taco Bell's....

"This is because we take care of the elderly."

Right--unlike in England and Canada where they stuff old folks into a suicide both when they turn 50.

Pink Slip

GREAT JOB!!

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