The Perfect Time to Apologize for Slavery

The Senate, and soon the House, will have apologized for the scourge of slavery. I haven't heard anything yet about the position of the White House on this issue. Well, since anyone who has really studied the issue knows, slavery couldn't have occured without the active participation of African traders and the Europeans. Now would be the time for the President to log in, and issue an apology that would be compelling in this regard.

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So a bunch of people who have never been enslaved or owned slaves will be apologising to another bunch of people who have never been enslaved or owned slaves.

Careful Billy, start making sense and you'll confuse the heck out of everyone...and probably get called a racist.

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

My family arrived in the US in the early 1900's.

Years after slavery.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

My cousin traced our family tree back to the early 1700's.

They never owned slaves and fought in a war to abolish slavery.

Dont apologise for me either.

I do have some Slavic ancestry tho - which is where the word originated.

What's that about reparations?

you're too quick for me.

I gather that the Congressional Black Caucus is against it because the bill doesn't provide for reparations for the descendants of slaves.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Yes, you did gather:

Congressional Black Caucus opposes apology for slavery
http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/jamesedwards/2009/06/19/congressiona...

«Several CBC members expressed concerns Thursday about a disclaimer that states that “nothing in this resolution authorizes or supports any claim against the United States; or serves as a settlement of any claim against the United States.”»

«“Putting in a disclaimer takes away from the meaning of an apology,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss. “A number of us are prepared to vote against it in its present form. There are several members of the Progressive Caucus who feel the same way.”»

I never had any slaves, my daddy didn't have any slaves, and my great grandaddy didn't have any slaves.

What should I apologize for ????

I am 4th generation descendant of European immigrants like so many of us here in Toledo.

This is 'white guilt' raising it's needless head again.

You guys are missing the point. Africans are just as much as fault-they sold other African people to Europeans--and the president, being half-African, should be the one to apologize as he represents BOTH guilty parties.

Both his African side and his Europeon side can apologize to each-other.

No need to get Congress involved. In fact, every time Congress gets involved, something gets screwed up beyond reason.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

What! Don't these guys have better things to do? What we need is a senior citizen day! That is the US needs, why can't we get a congressman to introduce a bill for that.

can you go back two more generations to your great-great grandaddy and your great great great grandaddy? Giving each generation 30 years, you being 30, your daddy being 60, your grandaddy being 90 and your great grandaddy being 120, that would only put you into 1889 and slavery had been abolished by then, but go back one or two generations and then tell me if slaves were owned by your family.

I wasn't a slave, my father was not a slave, my grandfather was not a slave but my great grand parents were slaves.

"my great grand parents were slaves. "

Ive got my family traced back to the 1700's - far enough back? and no, they didnt own slaves.

But - the point is, so what? 4 generations ago your grandparents were slaves? What would you think if it were somehow proven that 4 generations ago your great great grandpappy murdered someone else's great great grandpappy? Would you owe them anything? What if it was found out that your great great grand mammie also died trying to prevent the killing?

your post fails to make any point other than everybody who did wrong is dead, and everyone who was wronged is dead.

The fact is, this nation divided itself over the issue and people fought, died, and prevailed over the issue - A hundred and fifty years ago.

this reparations bullshit is just that. Bullshit.

Besides - somebody beat ya to it:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/gift.html

thread, go get a beer and settle down!

you posted a stupid comment and you are trying to cover your tracks by flippin' the script on swampbubblers and telling them to go drink a beer.

It is crystal clear that you do not have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
In my opinion, you appear to be a racist.

I wasn't talkin' to you. Georgejetson, I thought it was already established on SB that I am a "racist."
How can I not have the slightest idea what I am talking about when I am talking about my ancestors? You don't know if I am for or against Reparations. You are just assuming. Enjoy your beer.

what you are talking about because you are not "talking about your ancestors" - you are talking about mine.

I can prove that I had a relative who fought in the Civil War in the Union side.

I demand money for his service in the Union Army and I demand money for him helping free the slaves.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

LOL

Listen to ol' twyla purehate actin' all special cuz she thinks she made a point, where as usual she didnt.

Twyla, who cares whether the 'jetsons' had slaves 4 or 5 generations ago or not? Seriously, even if they did, what does George have to do with it?

Da Vinci may have painted the Mona Lisa and the Last Supper, but what does that say about his great, great, great, great grandson? You can no more hold a man's decendants responsible for the bad that he did any more than they deserve any credit at all for the good that he did.

Yes, there was slavery in this country - and yes, some of our countrymen's ancestors WERE slaves, and some of them OWNED slaves, see below:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/04/uselections2008.barackobama

Wait a minute - maybe you're right. He should resign his position because of what his ancestors did. The damn dirty slave owner descendant!

my first suggestion, go get a beer! Don't get yourselves in a tizzy, just get a bud light!

are just too predictable in how you react to anything I post. Too, too predictable to have an independent thought. That is why I suggested that you get a beer, first, isn't that how you all mellow out?

she can not contribute anything of substance to the conversation, so she resorts to entertainment.

comments or lack thereof, that the SB neighborhood agrees with GeorgeJetson.

why don't you refute the comments yourself ?

O_o You assume I agree with a racist basshole? Why would you assume that?

The fact is, you're in a urinating match with a bigot, and both of you are taking irrational stances. Why would I interject here except to chide both of you? I wasn't inclined to even do that, until you decided that my silence was assent. And I assure you: Your assumption is incorrect.

Have another one, BrainZero.

you're here at 2:53, 2:55, 2:58 AND 3:29 AM!

what does that tell you?

besides that you're a dumbass lol

Dont assume anything Twyla. It's friggin saturday for cryin out loud. People are out doing things. As ususal, your assumptions are wrong and moronic.

"The African immigrant has brought no significant advancement of our American culture except entertainment. No inventions, no significant advancements. Nothing that would require thought, or brainpower."

My God, that's an ignorant statement. I mean seriously George - if you let that addlepate get under your skin and put out sh*t like that you're no better than she is. Man, that's just scary.

you're getting sucked into something that both you cannot control and your intellect will explode trying to explain.

There are some things you just can't change and just hope and pray that their next generation doesn't carry that ignorance into their adulthood...

'

.....

and smart decision on deleting your obviously intelligent contribution...

next time just show restraint and avoid me.

otherwise I'll just re-post what you deleted.

and stop trolling people ?

there's a misconception you harbor that needs to be clarified.

I'm a participant. That includes offering my intelligent insight and information to back up comments and issues.

You are a troll. You offer nothing but antagonizing misinformation and offer zero insight and even less information to threads on this site. You chose to show your ignorance rather than focus on topic.

and to think I didn't need to go to jail to figure that out, eh felony convict?

Just a head's up - the troll's badmouthing you on another site.

http://toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/38240/Toledo_Fiberglass_Towe...

says he's not El Moron, but he sure acts the part.

he's phished for my new email address using this site to contact me. So I utilized my brimaxinc@yahoo.co.uk account. You should see some of the deranged comments this deviant sent me.

Now that I've decimated his manhood via email he's taken to a site that hasn't blocked or banned him yet trying to call me out, seeing Chris wisely saw that Gary was posting as GeorgeJetson here as well and shut that name down. Edit: I see that Gary is listed online.

It's fun to read, especially knowing the depths of his ignorance that he needs to draw, but has no credibility to anything he's posted.

on tracing my roots as I type this, and I'm betting that they lead me directly to my oldest ancestors Adam and Eve.

Which, like it or not, makes me a genuine African-American, yet I feel no burning guilt nor the desire to either pay or seek reparations.

Now the folks who made their living enslaving their fellow bruthas ans sistas and the white folks (who, incidentally have African-European heritage) and the (coincidentally) white African-Americans who bought their distant cousins and enslaved them here in America, as well as those who were enslaved by them.

And, with their passing the point of reparations is moot, mainly do to the lack of both the enslaved and those who enslaved them...

So go ahead you dead slaves, and collect your reparations from those that enslaved you.

I/we have taken no part in this and our conscience is clear...

Hooda Thunkit

Historian has not checked in to give his historical account on this subject? Hmmmm.........

just looking to cause trouble?

Had it even crossed your delusional mind that perhaps some people see how big a joke this event is and would rather not comment on something that is't even an issue?

I've already watched you bait Gary and carry on like the ignorant fool that you are. And now that you've shown everyone how racially ignorant Gary is, now you want to poke at Mike?

why don't you just take your bedsheet and go back to bed.

You're right. I let myself get into the fray of a war between two morons.

Hadnt realized that George was Gary. now that I know that, to heII with both of em. Just two trolls fighting under a bridge. It's like rolling over a rock and seeing a centipede goin at it with a maggot.

As far as HM is concerned, Im sure the man's got it going on enough go figure out that the easiest way to p*ss Purehate off is to ignore her, because childish as she is, all she wants is attention.

brilliant and knowledgeable and I am so ignorant, I was not able to discern that GeorgeJetson was the same person as el mehico so I would not have gotten into a P......ing match with him had I known.

The fact that whoever Jetson is and the fact that the statements he made were accepted by the Bubblers was very troubling to me. Comments are made on this site about the least little thing and I was disturbed that no one including the historian refuted any of the statements which meant to me that the Bubblers were in agreement.

Now that I know who Jetson is (if it is indeed el mehico/Gary) I do appologize for making the wrong assumption about the Bubblers in the neighborhood.

Purnhrt that was one thing you did get right. TOTALLY right.

MikeyA

Before I tell you to shut your ignorant pie-hole, consider these facts:

1. I am working five jobs at the moment, and I do not have time to read every thread on this site. In fact, the only reason I even bothered to read your latest piece of ignorance is that someone emailed me and pointed out your veiled attack. Lately SwampBubbles has been about the last thing on my mind given my workload.

2. My health has also been lousy lately, and I simply do not have the time or energy to refute every bit of ignorant racism uttered by the likes of George Jetson. Moreover, the Internet is filled with idiots like him, and I could spend 80 hours a week and never even make a dent in it.

3. I have actually written in support of targeted slavery reparations in the past. Your efforts to paint me as a closet racist through guilt-by-silence are pathetic.

4. Similarly, just because someone chooses to ignore some of the idiotic comments on this site does not mean that person agrees with them. Again, my time and energy have limits, and I spent a lot of time in the past four decades fighting racism, so don't lecture me about how I am not doing enough - you simply do not know what you are talking about.

That being said, shut your ignorant pie-hole, you mean-spirited and angry troll. Your tendency to attack even the people who might be allies is your fatal personality flaw, and you come across as a bitter blowhard with nothing to contribute beyond your constant attempts to start flame wars.

Historymike, Interesting and well written link.

Rather than an over-simplified payment scheme to descendents of slaves, reparations should be directed towards both needy communities and socially desirable projects. For example, investments into the school systems and hospitals of predominately African areas would pay much greater long-term benefits than a lump-sum distribution to slave descendants. The financing of much-needed modernization projects, such as water systems, transportation networks, or electrification plans would also help citizens in underdeveloped African nations achieve a higher standard of living and, in some way, compensate for the forced removal of millions of productive Africans from regional economies over the previous five centuries.

At last, a fresh approach...this, I think, a lot of us could live with. First and foremost, because the people who live in such poverty in, for example, the rural South, are trapped in undeveloped and ignored areas from which they don't advance (due to a lot of factors, chiefly lack of education, a crippling welfare system, etc...) If the infrastructure and education were improved, the situation of those in poverty might be improved. The US could end its guilt for slavery, and the taxpayers would be less irked that they are funding capital improvements and social services (as we['ve become accustomed) rather than undeserved cash payouts.

It's not a fresh approach. It's only the usual approach of increasing welfare to assuage a common Liberal mental illness.

Nobody alive is either a master or slave from American slavery. Without any living people to be the victims or the responsible parties, the entire issue is MOOT.

Unlike Brooks' assertions, there is no debt incurred by slavers, hence there's nothing to be paid (since there are no responsible parties remaining) and there's no one to pay it to (since there are no victims remaining).

And at any rate, if you honestly think that "investment" in a school system is the answer, please explain to me how the minority-heavy TPS is among the most expensive public systems in the state of Ohio, and improved results are STILL not forthcoming? It's a rhetorical question. You can't solve that sort of problem with more money. Instead, you need to re-organize the system so that it's more responsible and cheaper. Generally that requires privatization.

Handing more billions to Ohio's already overpaid teachers and administrators is NOT the answer.

It's an old approach in disguise. The descendants of slaves are not owed anything more than a level playing field. The entire slavery issue should be disposed of by the government at all levels and important problems should be addressed.

Of course, that wouldn't sell nearly as many papers.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Funny you should say.... I got to thinking about my response during the drive home today and some ideas became clearer...

If anything, infusing urban areas and the rural south with infrastructure funding would serve as welfare reparations-- Welfare has been just as damaging to the black community as slavery. It's destroyed the family structure in ways slavery did not, and made generations dependant on pawltry payouts for sustenence, thus destroying the human spirit and motivation to work, create, provide for the family.

Don't get me wrong...I mean not to belittle slavery.
But I don't think that It is a stretch to say that welfare, more than slavery, is what is responsible for a lot of what troubles the black community today. Who shall we hold responsible for the Welfare Reparations?

And GZ--when I referred to education, I did not necessarily mean funding a TPS-like school system that could just continue the welfare cycle. I have relatives in Appalachia, and have travelled backroads and small towns of some rural south areas...Homes without windows, running water, and heat are all over. Over the last 25 years, I've seen lots of kids grow up near my husband's aunt's home who can barely read, and almost always quit school at 16--or earlier. They literally get on the welfare roll as soon as they have that first baby. That education comes from home. They learn the system. That educational cycle needs to broken.

wrong again.
as usual.

The United States should not apologize to folks who were never slaves and whose ancestors would have never been slaves if it weren't for Black on Black violence, warring African tribes selling off one another to whoever would buy their booty.

The racist Congressional Black Caucus (imagine the hypocritical hue and cry over a Congressional White Caucus!) can return to Africa and seek all the apologies they want from the descendants of those Black tribes and Black chiefs, and better yet - STAY THERE.

If the United States starts adding up and subtracting from reparations, the Blacks would be in the hole and could never repay us.

Repatriation, not reparations, is the answer.

any part of THAT you don't unnerstand, pernhrt ????

You said: «I wasn't a slave, my father was not a slave, my grandfather was not a slave but my great grand parents were slaves.»

What possible goal were you aiming for in mentioning that?

"I wasn't a slave, my father was not a slave, my grandfather was not a slave but my great grand parents were slaves"

I was not a slave owner, my father was not a slave owner, my grandfather was not a slave owner, and back in Europe, my great grandparents and great-great grandparents were not slave owners. However, my great-great uncle on my grandmothers side was in the 1st Maine Cavalry in the Union Army.

 "This Regiment lost greatest number killed in action of any Cavalry Regiment in the entire army: 15 Officers and 159 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded; 3 Officers and 341 Enlisted men died of disease, a total of 518"

 http://www.civilwararchive.com/Unreghst/unmecav.htm

M great-great uncle was at Gettysburg and survived while fighting for the Union to free slaves.

So I will NOT be forced into paying for restitution for something my family was not involved in and for which my family was part of the solution to.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

LibsCanBlowMe: Did your ancestor leave any letters or descriptions of the war?

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

is his discharge papers naming the unit he was in.

The discharge papers indicate when he joined the Union Army, what unit he was in, and when he was discharged.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Well, that's something worth hanging on to. We've got a written commission in His Majesty's Navy that is pre-revolutionary, and a stack of letters from various relatives, some of which date back to the 1700s.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

just getting into a bit for bat (put a t in place of the b because those words are not allowed) with the ones stating "I didn't own slaves, my father didn't own slaves, my grandfather didn't own slaves and my great grandfather didn't own slaves." Whereas, I am not a slave, my father was not a slave, my grandfather was not a slave but my great grandfather was a slave. Just tyring to show in my "ignorance" the stupidity of the first statement.

My own ancestors were Quaker, and were involved in the underground railroad. They hid, fed and clothed runaway slaves. The entire family was involved and risked themselves to help the slaves escape. I don't believe they would take any money for their efforts, nor would they want their descendants to accept any money or thanks for their efforts. This was on my mother's side of the family.

On my father's side, I have a bunch of murderous explorers - we call them Indian fighters. Several of them knew the route West and could guide a cattle drive East and a wagon train West, complete with Indian fights, sickness and broken wagons. They were genuinely tough men and women.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

were Pretzel Bakers from Pennsylvania! With or without mustard?

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

KK

That might be the best answer to this whole issue.

Pretzels are a flatulent food. and a big ol' stinker is the perfect answer to the whole idea.

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