Tell Congress to investigate torture

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Hold Congress accountable. Torture is illegal, and lawbreakers must be held accountable.

http://www.commoncause.org/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?c=dkLNK1MQI...

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From the testimony of Mr. Malcolm Nance to the United States Commission of Serurity and Cooperation in Europe website. Granted he was testifying against the practice, but he admits that the United States Military Special Forces are subjected to this "torture" as part of their training.  I.E. The United States Government demands waterboarding United States citizens as part of their training. Therefore, Special Forces vets SHOULD BE ABLE TO SUE THE GOVERNMENT FOR THEIR INHUMANE TREATMENT.

http://www.csce.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContentRecords.ViewWitness&ContentRecord_id=908&ContentType=D&ContentRecordType=D&ParentType=H&CFID=18849146&CFTOKEN=53

"As I have testified before a similar hearing in the House, while at SERE, one of my most serious responsibilities was to employ, supervise or witness dramatic and highly kinetic coercive interrogation methods, including a wide range of activities now referred to as Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. This included hands-on, short duration-high intensity brutality such as face slapping, painful stress positions, simulated sexual assault, mock executions and the most severe – waterboarding.

I have testified that waterboarding, of which I was subjected to the maximum limit allowable, is a professional process when done in the hands of a competent team – it is also an inhumane, cruel, degrading torture that was applied regularly by the most evil enemies fought by this nation’s armed forces including the Nazis and North Vietnamese."

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

If waterbaording was illegal...why did congress have to pass a law in 2007 making it illegal?

And why do we waterbaord our own SF troops?

Pinky has Bush Derangement Syndrome.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Waterboarding has always been a crime. Everyone connected with doing this or allowing it to happen should be indicted for war crimes... everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike.

LMAO...dream on...no one is going to be prosecuted...

Not the agents who waterboarded...

Not the doctors who monitored it...

Not the doctors who designed the program..

Not the guys who gave legal advice...

Not the people who ordered it...

Not even the janitor who mopped up the water...

No crime was committed...

They might get a strongly worded letter in their file though...

But hey...dont stop ranting and raving now...it's quite hillarious...

It's quite clear to most of us that you hate Bush more than you hate Bin ladan....

You'd let a nuke go off in an American city cuz you wouldnt what to get your Hands dirty or break a nail.

Who's the one who lacks morality and compasion for their fellow man?

You are..

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Z, this isn't only about Bush. I'd argue it's mainly about Cheney, but if some Dems knew about it they are guilty too. We'll never know without an investigation. But torture IS definitely illegal. The Constitution states that when we sign treaties, it becomes law of the land. And we signed a couple of different treaties making torture a crime. The US has prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding--because it is torture and a crime.

Pink Slip

Pink...look at those treaties agian...there are exemptions...

Water "boarding" is not the "water cure"...look it up...

And we didnt simply prosecute the japs for water torture (water cure)...they committed a whole host of war crimes....

1. Asari, Eiji,.... for "beating using fire shovel, fists, etc." .... 25 years hard labor

or

2. Asano, Yukio ... for "beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward" ... 15 years hard labor

or

3. Hashimoto, Chogo .... for "beating, sometimes to point of unconscious, using among others club, stick, fists; kicking; throwing water on PWs" ..... also 15 years hard labor

if you are trying to compare the treatment of KSM to the treatment of prisoner of war under the japanese then you havent looked at the issue honestly...

Look...you are wasting your time...no matter how much you yell and stamp your feet...NO ONE is going to be charged with a crime...becuase it wasnt a crime until Congress passed the DTA IN 2005 which was further clarified in 2007...

KSM and the two others where waterboarded in 2003/2003.

Look...I'm not yanking your chain...and I'm not a nazi...

But there are times when good men do bad things in the dark to keep you safe whether you like it or not..

And if those men cant do their job...horrible things...un imaginable things like 9/11 WILL happen again..

And quite honestly...when those things happen...people like me, will hold people like you, partially responsible.

Because people like you stood in the way of other good men trying to do their jobs..to keep us safe...

I pray to God I'm wrong...and nothing happens...but you better get down on your knees and pray that you are right...

Cuz if you are wrong...and hundreds or thousands die again becuase people like you stood in the way.....there will be no safe place on the face of this earth to hide from people like me.....serious as a heart attack.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning to deal with this bullshit:

'Cuz if you are wrong...and hundreds or thousands die again becuase people like you stood in the way.....there will be no safe place on the face of this earth to hide from people like me.....serious as a heart attack.'

Except to say, fuck you. Please, come looking. Nobody will be hiding. 'Serious as a heart attack.'

(Edited to semi-clean up my vulgarity).

Zeitgeist, I'm sure of two things here: nobody will be prosecuted and nobody can say with any assurance waterboarding saved any American lives.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66895.html

That's some funny freudian shit there...

I call out terrorist sympathisers...you self identify and step to the head of the line...

I even got an FU out of the deal...

HAHAHAHA!

nobody can say with any assurance waterboarding saved any American lives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html?_r=2

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair,

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

thanks for the Blair link. I'll assume this is the quote you didn't want to highlight:

“The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

Will Adm. Blair be one of those you'll be 'looking for' if we undergo another attack? Like the rest of us, I'm sure he's scared shitless.

who no doubt will be tossing and turning at night at the thought of you prowling the streets for weak-kneed terrorist dupes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html?_r=1&ref=global

Z

there will be no safe place on the face of this earth to hide from people like me

If you decide to come looking, you best be careful or you'll find me.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

That's two self identified terrorist sympathisers...

Gotta love freud sometimes..

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Waterboarding is a form of torture.

Treaties that the US has signed:

Convention Against Torture -- signed by Reagan in 1988, ratified in 1994 by Senate:

Article 2

1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.

2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture. . . .

Article 4

1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.

Article 7

1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.

Article 15

Each State Party shall ensure that any statement which is established to have been made as a result of torture shall not be invoked as evidence in any proceedings, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made.

Geneva Convention:

"No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

"The following acts are and shall remain prohibited ... cruel treatment and torture; ... Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; "

What the Constitution says about treaties:

[A]ll Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land.

Torture is a violation of domestic criminal law. And here.

The US prosecuted and hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding:

"After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning."

Pink Slip

LMAO...your counter arguments are worthless and weak...

Exemption to Treaty Reagan signed:

Should the Senate give its advice and consent to ratification of the Convention, I intend at the time of deposit of United States ratification to make a declaration pursuant to Article 28 that the United States does not recognize the competence of the Committee against Torture under Article 20 to make confidential investigations of charges that torture is being systematically practiced in the United States.

Geneva Convention IV exemptions
GCIV provides an important exemption:

Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention [ie GCIV] as would ... be prejudicial to the security of such State ... In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity (GCIV Article 5)

Constitutional limits of foreign national protection:

In 1891 the Supreme Court ruled that the bill of rights does not apply to non-us citizens in other countries.

In other words, the constitutional protections stop at the waters edge.

One of the most critical issues came after the Spanish-American war, U.S. acquired Puerto Rico and other colonies
from Spain, and the Supreme Court was left with burning issue of whether the
constitution applied to the U.S new property. The Supreme Court ruled that Puerto
Rico was “foreign” and thus only should have some constitutional rights, which
means that residents of Puerto Rico are consider U.S. citizens, but do not enjoy the
Bill of Rights protection.

Jesse ventura?

Bleh...not worth comment...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Z...NONE of these points refutes anything that I have posted. Reagan's text wasn't some kind of "get-out-of-jail" signing statement. It deals with investigations of, and accusations of torture by other states. Even your Geneva Convention "exemption" declares that "In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity." Do you really think the Geneva Convention would provide such a broad exemption, which would nullify nearly ALL rights? You're either deliberately misleading, or completely daft.

Pink Slip

There are exemptions....I listed them....you clearly did not...

The proof is in the puddin...no one will be charged with a crime.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

The proof is in the puddin...no one will be charged with a crime

Not if it's up to government apologists such as yourself. You love government, don't you? Our "leaders" are above such petty concerns as the rule of law, aren't they Z? The law only applies to lowly citizens. Our beloved leaders are here to protect us. The Constitution is soooo pre-9/11. We can't look to the outdated "quaint" Constitution to protect us against "evil-doers". We must allow our beloved leaders to act in secrecy and NEVER question them. Only they can keep us safe from TERROR. You are weak, and you make me sick.

Pink Slip

protecting the practices of governments (administrations) of a certain party or political / philosophical persuasion.

That makes him doubly weak and doubly hypocritical.

Your "beliefs"?

Is this a "faith based" argument now?

Obama is in office...you hear me sceaming about misuse of the law all the sudden?

You see me handwringing that he's raping the constitution all the sudden?

Nope...I want the president to do his number one job...to protect this nation from attack.

I dont want 9/11 to happen again...or worse...

Obama has done a 180 on wiretaps...

Obama has done a 180 on indefinate imprisonment of terror suspects...

Obama has done a 180 on military tribunals...

and Obama has done a 180 on prosecuting former Bush lawers and waterbaording agents...

See me bitching and moaning?

Nope.

Now...how many years has the left and main stream press been freaking out about the evil Bush policies?

See them bitching NOW?.....nope

Oh but that isnt hypocritical..nah...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Frank Rich addressed many of these points in Sunday's Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17rich-5.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

It's called "being ahead of the curve"....

I used to be a mouth breathing, reactionary, emotional thought based liberal just like pink...I hated Reagan..thought he was trying to get us all killed by the soviets...

A true "neo-con" by definition..IE: a former liberal/new conservative

I evolved...

Know why "neo-con" is used like a racial slur by liberals?

We are apostate from the church of Humanity...

Blasphemers...

Heretics...

We have drank from the well of liberalism and found it wanting...

We've peeked behind the curtain and have seen the mighty wizard is a fake...

Pink HATES me....I make him sick....whereas I think his simply a useful idiot.....part of the herd...devoid of any independant thought...a pure reactionary...

Easily led by the nose from issue to issue...he screams with rightious indigantion...then moves on to the next thing he's told to be outraged about....

And all of it lacks even the most basic consistancy....

Scream for years about womens rights...then attack Palin...

Scream for years about womens rights to free thought....then attack Miss CA....

Scream for years about "the children"...then advocate infanticide in the womb...

Scream about the abuse of women...then ignore their treatment under islam....

Scream about the evil Govt intrusion into your personal life...then demand govt control for "those other people"...

Cry about unsafe streets...then demand gon control...

Decry the mis education of minorities...then fight against vouchers to allow minorities to escape bad schools...

Demand free speech....then push a "fairness doctrin"....

Decry Humans rights; abuses...then demand we not be the worlds policeman...

Christ I could go on and on....but there isnt enough room in the enitier forum....I'd hit a charactor limit...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Now...how many years has the left and main stream press been freaking out about the evil Bush policies?

Do Liberals give Obama a free pass on torture and wire tapping? Hardly! Olbermann, Maddows, AmericanBlog, FireDogLake rip him to shreds just like they did Bush on these topics.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=rachel&ie=UTF-8...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GFRE_enUS327US327&ei=xasRSoy-C...

You can go find the rest. Once again demonstrating that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Sorry G spot...even I can make the distinction between the "left" and the "barking moonbats"...

Go to those same places...you'll find the people who believe "9/11 was an inside job"..."bush is a war criminal" etc etc...

Moonbats.....no different that the wingnuts who thought the UN was going to invade under Clinton...

Do a search for Alex Jones and prison planet...

People like him are simply husksters...selling books and DVD's to the ignorant suckers....

Read McCasky's posted article from the times...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

if you think it's mostly about Obama simply carrying on with Bush policies.

You must have been speeding around that curve not wearing a seat belt.

The Bush 'legacy', such as it is, will continue to be worn down to a little nub.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/17/anti-war_voices_los...

May 17, 2009
Anti-War Voices Lose Influence
By Salena Zito

Will the last activist who hopes the antiwar cause will re-emerge as a central tenet of the Democratic Party please turn out the lights on the way out the door?

Little evidence exists that any antiwar movement is alive, well and influencing policy in this country.

Certainly no voice for it is coming from Barack Obama's White House. In fact, Obama has been pretty consistent in jerking-around antiwar crusaders, beginning with last summer's vote as a U.S. senator for a federal surveillance law and its provision shielding telecommunications companies that cooperated in warrantless wiretaps - a law he previously opposed.

The only sound coming from the left at the time was a momentary backlash from the blogosphere.

The president reinforced his dismissal of antiwar activists last week, when he performed an enormous flip and decided to halt the release of photographs of detainee abuse. He said that releasing the photos would put U.S. troops at risk and inflame anti-American opinion.

On April 23, the Obama administration had said the Pentagon would hand over 44 photos of detainee abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq under the Bush administration.

Less than two years ago, the liberal public-policy group MoveOn.org ran its now-infamous "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" ad, accusing the four-star of exaggerating the success of the troop surge in Iraq.

Go to MoveOn.org's website today, and ending the war is fourth behind health care, climate change and the economy in its goals for 2009, buried in a nondescript click on the site.

"With an anti-war Democrat in the White House, the anti-war activists are cutting him some slack - for now," said Purdue University political scientist Bert Rockman. "I have no doubt that an anti-war movement will eventually focus on the Afghan-Pakistan front... it will be up to Obama to explain what is at stake."

A year from now, if circumstances have not changed or worsened on the Afghan-Pakistan front, Obama will have trouble holding the center against left-wing Democrats on one side and right-wing Republicans on the other. So far, he has shown himself to be politically agile in explaining through reason what is at stake - but agility has its limits.

Note that the debate so far has been about tactics rather than necessities, according to Rockman. That's why Gen. David McKiernan was replaced as U.S. commander in Afghanistan - "not that he was an incompetent commander, but he may have been the wrong one for this kind of war."

The Obama administration appears to be planning to wage war there with decreasing risks to Afghan civilians but likely increasing risk to our own soldiers. There will be less high-penetration ordnance and more dependence on cultivating intelligence sources and carefully targeted strikes - "Which is why a Special Forces general is the new commander in Afghanistan," Rockman adds.

Tactics that cause increased casualties for our troops is apt to stimulate anti-war fever, however.

"Where is Code Pink" - another liberal activist group - "or Moveon.org today?" asks Republican strategist Alex Castellanos. "Is it all okay if Barack Obama does it?"

"Being against the war was something the left used to draw a bright line between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama," he says. "But there is no cause now, because there was no cause then."

St. Louis University law professor Joel Goldstein says the antiwar movement has lost steam for at least three reasons: It was centered on a widespread lack of faith in the Bush administration; real concerns about Afghanistan and Pakistan which implicate our security interests have emerged; the economy now has the attention of the public and the media.

The left ousted Republicans who it was convinced were intent on continuing the war in Iraq, so the "antiwar effort necessarily loses its steam," Goldstein adds.

While President Obama gingerly takes ownership of the war in Afghanistan - pumping up troop levels, hand-picking his own commander, adding Pakistan as part of the solution and the problem - he is disowning antiwar activists who voted for him, expecting him to put an end all wars.

Unfortunately for them, they have nowhere else to go, Castellanos says, "So the noise you will hear from them will be voiceless."

Salena Zito is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review editorial page columnist. E-mail her at szito@tribweb.com

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

the natural extension should be that you and other conservs will be singing Obama's praises on here and elsewhere and we can have a good ol' fashion role reversal.

You can be the new 'Code Pink' on here and Slip, Sensor and I will be hunting you down for coddling terrorists...'serious as a heart attack'.

Returning to reality, it's not surprising that Afghanistan is mentioned so often in this column, it being just another in a never-ending list of Bush up-chuck left to clean up for whomever was going to follow.

IF Obama keeps America safe ......he's doing his job...

And there will be no role reversal....but at least you acknowledge the terror support...even if you had to paraphrase what I said....

And Like I said...you self identity with it....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

OK

IF Obama keeps America safe ......he's doing his job...

We can now establish with this logic the certainty that Bush was NOT doing his job keeping America save on 9/11. He got an intelligence report in Aug. that terrorists were planning to strike America and he coddled them.

You can now hunt him down in Dallas while out on your search and destroy mission on Pink.

Turns out you're right...you ARE ahead of the curve.

Oh christ...here we go...Bush let 9/11 happen...

The moonbat peeks out from behind the mask...

So by the same logic..Clinton let WTC 1 happen?..and the Cole bombing?...and our embassy's?...

FDR let pearl harbor happen?...

Bleh....

What's next?..9/11 was an inside job?

Ever see "loose change"?

*snicker*

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Obama's been VERY weak on civil liberties so far. In fact, he's defended many of Bush's policies (wiretaps, military tribunals, torture, etc). The difference between me and you Z, is that I'm encouraging people to pressure our Congress into doing something about it. But you actually applaud these stances.

You are who Benjamin Franklin was referring to when he said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Pink Slip

What is the most basic of Human rights Pink?

The right to self defense...

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Is the correct original phrase...later phrased in his writtings as :

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

And I'd like to point out...that you using a Franklin quote to make some kind of point to me is truly ironic...seeing that you've proclaimed to be "non religious"

Franklin was quite the deist...almost a puritan in fact:

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men."

"I believe there is one Supreme most perfect being. ... I believe He is pleased and delights in the happiness of those He has created; and since without virtue man can have no happiness in this world, I firmly believe He delights to see me virtuous."

He is also one of those "rich white guys" liberals love to piss on....

Your mind set is so far from Franklins it's laughable....

"TEMPERANCE. Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation."
"SILENCE. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation."
"ORDER. Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have its time."
"RESOLUTION. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve."
"FRUGALITY. Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e., waste nothing."
"INDUSTRY. Lose no time; be always employ'd in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions."
"SINCERITY. Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly."
"JUSTICE. Wrong none by doing injuries, or omitting the benefits that are your duty."
"MODERATION. Avoid extremes; forbear resenting injuries so much as you think they deserve."
"CLEANLINESS. Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, cloaths, or habitation."
"TRANQUILLITY. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable."
"CHASTITY. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation."
"HUMILITY. Imitate Jesus and Socrates."

He was also a big advocate of republicanism.

You might as well quote the bible to me...it would just as meaningless....

Find a quote...use it as a club....ignore the entire being of the man you quoted...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

BUWHAHAHAHAHA!

What a good little prole you are...yap yap yap...bark bark bark...you cant even use Obama's name....like all the sudden he isnt in charge...his people arent running the DOJ.....

Now that Obama has used people like you to get into office...he's proving he doesnt give a flying crap what you think....

You were merely a useful idiot...

Religion is no longer the opiate of the masses...liberalism has replaced it...

I love it when I stike a nerve....when motivations are made clear in the face of useless retoric...

Who is charge now?

Oh...Obama is....

Who runs congress?

Oh...the democrats...

Who's not going to prosecute?

oh....Obama isnt.

You're all wound up with no place to run...it's hillarious...you've boxed yourself in and Obama is putting the lid on...

Years of pent up rage and all you can do is snarl and growl....

Get back to me when Obama drags anyone into court...

And you have a nice day...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Did anyone else notice how George Bush and congressional Republicans completely undercut the Republican Party’s war on government, a key pillar of their brand? You can't spin a story about how the all powerful macho government, headed by commander codpiece, is going to take care of everything and keep you safe while simultaneously disparaging government in every other way. The narratives collide and become incoherent.

Bush is a moderate...not a conservative...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

As I've said before every one of the enhanced techniques with the exception of waterboarding I was subject to in Marine Boot Camp aboard Parris Island.

I wouldn't declare any of them as torture. While they were uncomfortable they were all tolerable.

I had heard that waterboard is used for special forces. As I've never served with them I can't say they do for sure nor can I say it's torture. What I can say is it doesn't scare me. If that was the worse I faced from being captured by our enemies I'd sleep very comfortably.

As for the Japanese war criminal crimes. Many extended far back before our involvement and were far more heinous.

One favorite of the Japanese military during the invasion of Manchuria was to grab babies from their mothers, affix bayonettes, and throw the baby in the air to see who could catch it with their rifle akin to our throwing of a bouquet at a wedding.

MikeyA

Nice post, especially about basic training.

For an in-depth examination of Jap war crimes, take a look at the rape of Nanking. The Japs thought it was fun to kill the children in front of their mothers.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Here's the latest liberal myth letter circulating around the moonbat blogs...:SERE training IS torture TOO...

--------------------------------------------

Mother of U.S. Marine Who Was Waterboarded Rips Cheney, Others
by GregMitch

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/16/732174/-Mother-of-U.S.-Marin...

This week, I received a letter from a woman from Florida, mother of a young Marine, who has corresponded with me before about her military background and her son joining up, at Editor & Publisher. Her latest letter was extremely disturbing and also extremely relevant to the latest torture excuse. Here is it is, with her name omitted for obvious reasons.

Dear Mr. Mitchell,

I have been so profoundly upset for the last few days that I can hardly express it, so I decided to write to you again. My son is ok physically, thank God, but what was done to him by his own leaders sickens me beyond belief.

My son was in a field that required that he attend SERE school. He was trained as a member of a flight crew that could potentially go behind enemy lines, so SERE was required. I'm a veteran, I thought I had an idea of what was ahead for him, so I gave him a maternal pep talk and told him that it would be very hard but these people were on his side and were trying to prepare him for all possibilities and this would help make him prepared and tough.

I didn't know how naïve my encouragement was. I thought they would teach him how to escape, and how to survive. I had no idea that it would be a sadistic exercise in dehumanizing and terrifying him. He was 19 at the time. I am sickened by this, and outraged.

My 19 year old son was water boarded, among other despicable things, and I had encouraged him to succeed at SERE. They did more to him that he has yet to explain to me, one thing that went on long enough for him to start hallucinating and to think he was dying....

Now we all have found that the two men who came up with this program were using my son and everyone else who went through SERE as guinea pigs for their sick, sadistic torture program. Then they sold their torture program to the sadists in the Bush Administration and became overpaid military contractors who spread this poison throughout our military.

My son is not reenlisting. He is getting out soon. He has been depressed for a long time now and can't wait to get out.

This is why I'm writing to you: Yesterday on TV I saw some Republican mouthpiece, some ex-Cheney aide, who has never worn a uniform and has NO idea what the hell he is talking about, say that we never tortured anyone because we did it to our own troops and they volunteered to serve; therefore it isn't torture. His statement was allowed to stand unchallenged.

My son did NOT volunteer to be tortured. He was NOT told what would be done to him at SERE. He was told he would be taught to survive. Instead he was tortured, humiliated, degraded, shamed, and told to keep quiet about it. How in God's name would that prepare any of our troops to survive capture? It won't. It will only make them break quicker in the hopes of not having to go through more torture.

Who will speak up for my son and the others like him who joined the military to serve and who were subjected to sadistic torture, not by the enemy, but by the war criminals ostensibly on our side? These people, Cheney and his talking heads, everyone of them chicken hawks who avoided serving, should NOT be allowed to use torturing our troops as rationalization for their crimes.

There is NO excuse for this. People need to go to jail for this, and I don't mean the Lyndie Englunds and other low-ranking troops who were led into this. I mean the people who ordered it at the top. The people who are still trying to justify their crimes and are now having their mouthpieces use my son and others who were tortured as their cover. And for what? So the sadists who came up with this, and they are sadists, can keep themselves out of trouble? They all stood by silently, including Cheney, while lower-ranking troops went to prison for the evil they ordered done. Now they want to use my son's torture as their rationalization? No!

This must NOT be allowed to stand unchallenged.

I can't stand feeling so helpless. I WANT A VOICE. I want to confront those evil people who are still selling this torture as if it were our only defense against terrorists, and who now are attempting to use our troops to defend their indefensible, morally corrupt, war crimes.

My son was not given a choice, he was not made aware of what would be done to him, he was ordered not to talk about it. He was tortured - by sadists, for bigger sadists.

Who will stand up to those responsible for this?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

""""""And we didnt simply prosecute the japs for water torture (water cure)...they """"""

What is a jap?

"What is a Jap?

Are you really that ignorant?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

shhhhhhhhhhh

you're about to cramp the brain should you pursue this...trust me.

Impossible...the pre-rquesite would be having a brain To begin with....

What is a Jap?....LMAO....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

i was talking about yours.

Nah..my brain only cramps when I'm sitting on it...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Jewish American Princess.

Wait, that's a JAP.

Jew hater eh?...I'm shocked...shocked I say...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

but you're correct, my lame attempt to be humerous without thinking things through could be interpreted that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_American_Princess

No problem McCaskey....I dont think you hate Jews.....but it clearly rattled your cage enough so that you had to clarify...

Anyone who's seen "spaceballs" knows what the term is...

LMAO.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

in any event, I'm now comforted by the fact, established by your own statement, that as long as America is not attacked, Obama is 'doing his job.'

Anything posted to the contrary on here by you from now on will have to be tossed back in your ahead-of-the-curve puss.

Let's see...no terror attack today...all must be well.

This has really been fun; thanks again.

*shrug*

Doing his #1 job....he has other jobs too bro...

Today was a good day...I pray for the same tommorrow...

What you guys call an obama flip flop or sell out...is just reality kicking in...he doesnt want to be responsible for another attack happening if he lets our guard down....

So GITMO will remain open....

Terrorists will still be held indefinatly without trial...

Military tribunals will restart...

Warrantless wite taps will still happen...

The wars will go on...

And he wont go after the CIA or former Bush peeps...

Governing is not the same campaigning...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

"So GITMO will remain open....Terrorists will still be held indefinatly without trial...Military tribunals will restart...Warrantless wite taps will still happen...The wars will go on..."

And Z will be happy, because he thinks the Constitution's a "quaint" idea and only our beloved leaders can protect us from TERROR.

Pink Slip

"What is a jap?"

The same people who bayoneted babies in front of their mothers.

People who indulge in that type of enjoyment shouldn't rate respect.

MikeyA

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/12/kentucky.iraq.murder/index.html

but then these U.S. 'soldiers' no more reflect on the typical American citizen any more than the Japanese 'soliders' who commited war crimes reflect on the typical Japanese civilian when those crimes were commited.

Riiiight...just like the typical Nazi didnt reflect on the average German citzen...

Imperial Nippon and Nazi germany must have imported soldiers...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

U.S. soldiers in Iraq...or Vietnam....or at Wounded Knee...or any conflict where atrocities happened by 'our' hand, must have imported personnel from elsewhere.

I happen to believe armed forces of any country, ours included, are capable of commiting heinous acts because of the ugliness, brutalizing, and de-humanizing effects armed conflict has on those individuals.

No fighting force from any nation is immune to this circumstance, ours included.

AH...but there is a vast difference between a few bad apples and standard operating proceedure...

Again...no comparison...we catch our people doing it...we court marshal them.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

I remember a few years back a some Marines and a Naval Corpsman stationed in Japan brutally raped a very young Japanese girl.

They weren't court martialed in that case. No instead they were denied protections of US Law and the Uniformed Code of Military Justice and were prosecuted under Japanese civil law which had a far worse punishment.

And it was a good call by the military to do it.

MikeyA

I agree with this "No fighting force from any nation is immune to this circumstance, ours included."

and hence I don't tolerate American individuals who do heinous acts like this as well.

MikeyA

I wouldn't be too quick with that one. The average Japanese citizen supported the Emperor of Japan, who directed their attitude. Their society isn't like ours.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Jap or Japs is slang for Japanese. They are also referred to as Nips.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

scandal. Kill two birds with one stone.

Being forced to watch PMSNBC.....

Tom

Right-wing talker Mancow gets waterboarded and says: "It's Absolutely Torture "

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/right-wing-talker-mancow-gets-water...

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