CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949
Havent' seen much of this story in the media.

No votes yet

Torture is illegal. Members of the past administration broke the law and should be prosecuted. It's that simple.

Pink Slip

?

too bad that's coming from "CNS" news and not a legitimate news source

from 2005 that is quoted on the site.
So Pink, if it did save L.A., if it is true, we shouldn't have done it?
The complaints would be the opposite , that we ddn't do enough, if LA had been savaged.

This "news organization" is greatly slanted toward the neocons. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about CNS:
"A July 15, 2005, CNS article claimed that Democratic strategist Paul Begala said that Republicans wanted to kill him and his family. [6] Begala vehemently denied this, claiming that when he said, "They want to kill me and my children if they can," he was referring to terrorists, not Republicans. [7] CNS refused to retract the claim, insisting that "[t]here was nothing unclear about what Begala said."[8] Then-CNS editor in chief David Thibault challenged Begala for his "unmistakable and outrageous coupling of terrorists and Republicans."[9]

"A January 13, 2006, CNS article assailed the military record of Democratic Rep. John Murtha, a former Marine who has heavily criticized the Iraq war. The article quoted people who were either former political opponents of Murtha or who were dead or incapacitated casting aspersions on the two Purple Hearts Murtha earned while serving in the Vietnam War.[10] The next day, the Washington Post repeated the article's allegations.[11] Critics likened the CNS article to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacks on the war record of Democrat John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign as another example of conservatives attempting to discredit the military credentials of Democrats in order to blunt their criticism of the Iraq war."

Waterboarding, along with other similar acts, is torture... period. And this country is in violation of international law by not bringing the perpetrators of these heinous crimes before a court. And that includes President Obama as an accomplice if he continues to ignore the law.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/23/top-legislators-knew-of-inte...

Thursday, April 23, 2009
Top legislators knew of interrogations
Kara Rowland (Contact)

The CIA briefed top Democrats and Republicans on the congressional intelligence committees on enhanced interrogation techniques more than 30 times, according to intelligence sources, who said those members tacitly approved the techniques which some Democrats in Congress now say should land Bush administration officials in prison.

Between 2002 and 2006, the top Republicans and Democrats on the House and Senate intelligence committees "each got complete, benchmark briefings on the program," said one of the intelligence sources who is familiar with the briefings.

"If Congress wanted to kill this program, all it had to do was withhold funding," said the source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk about the closed-door briefings.

Those who were briefed included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and Rep. Jane Harman of California, all Democrats, and Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas, Sen. Richard C. Shelby of Alabama and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, all Republicans.

The Democratic and Republican staff directors for both committees also were briefed, according to the intelligence source and to a declassified memo released Wednesday that detailed some of the Senate committee briefings.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

DoYourownResearch at 11:36 AM - April 22, 2009
While I'm all for torturing any scum bag that planned 9/11. You can believe everything you read. Do some research people. The White house put out a Fact Sheet stating: "In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast... KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles." KSM was not captured until March 2003 in Pakistan. It is impossible that this plot was foiled due to waterboarding KSM since he wasn't captured yet!

steelcity666 at 10:45 AM - April 22, 2009
Check the record people. The leader of the "Library Tower Plot" was captured in February 2002. KSM was arrested on March 1, 2003. The interrogations of KSM did not, and could not, have contributed to the arrest of the leader of the "Library Tower Plot." Here is a statement from a teleconference Press Briefing on the West Coast Terrorist Plot by Frances Fragos Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (9th paragraph of the press release): "The cell leader was arrested in February of 2002, and as we begin -- at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward. You'll recall that KSM was then arrested in April of 2003 -- or was it March -- I'm sorry, March of 2003." Read the whole thing here http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2006/02/2006020...

Damn lentileater, you beat me to it. :)

Pink Slip

Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair acknowledged in a memo to the intelligence community that Bush-era interrogation practices yielded had "high-value information,” then omitted that admission from a public version of his assessment.

He also said the bad outweighed the good. And it doesn't matter because it's illegal

Pink Slip

Yes I'm sure the people who work in the library tower in LA share your sentiments....

Maybe since Al Qeada didnt blow it up...we should send them reparations and blow it up our selves eh?

What about the democrats who were briefed on these policies and APPROVED them?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

What about the democrats who were briefed on these policies and APPROVED them?

If they broke the law, they should be prosecuted.

Pink Slip

See...that';s the humorous part...even though congress approved the very definition of torture used in the memo's in ealy 94'

The have soveriegn immunity....

So yeah...lets go after people who saved american lives....

And what will you do if Obama doesnt go along?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

It's not up to Obama to "go along" or not. He's not the decider. Congress and/or the Attorney General can get this ball rolling.

Pink Slip

We'll see how much flip flopping goes on in the next two days.....

Lest you forget that Democratic leadership was also fully briefed on the these policies...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

So we can send thomahawk missles and shoot Green GE mini guns at Al queada but we cant slap around the survivors to save american lives...

You guys have some screwed up morals......

Never again?...or only a matter of time?

http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/42153/2000786995038856762_rs.jpg

It's clear to see where you guys place your sympathy and empathy....

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/22/marcy-wheeler-83-waterboa_n_190...

Here's what 83 waterboardings got us!

1. "Abu Zubaydah describes his role running the Khaldan and Derunta training camps."

2. "Abu Zubaydah describes Rahim al-Nashiri's success as a recruiter."

3. "AZ describes Bin Laden's popularity."

4. "AZ gives tempered description of KSM's popularity."

5. "AZ insisted there were no ties between al Qaeda and Iraq."

6. "AZ claims Bin Laden expanded the scope of KSM's original plan."

7. "AZ provides description of the origins of "the Encyclopedia," a terrorist training manual created during the anti-Soviet campaign."

8. "AZ provides a description of Bin Laden's actions after the Cole bombing."

9. "AZ provides information on Abu Turab, who reportedly conducted the final training for the 9/11 plotters."

10. "AZ provides a comment on whether Saudis were selected for the 9/11 plot specifically."

83 waterboardings is 2917 too few....

and just one lead was worth it....

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You want kangaroo courts....bring it on....

The more that comes out of what was twarted..the better....the more you'll all look foolish for your blatent sympathy of 9/11 consirators and other who would kill Americans in cold blood.......

Release ALL of the memos...unredacted...

The ability to stand by and do nothing while your fellow Americans die to me is a total lack of morality...

If you wouldnt slap a guy around to save innocent people,...how could you kill a man?

Who could depend on you for defense?

Not me....

Maybe you should tell your wifes and children you that not only arent you willing to kill a man to save their lives...you arent even willing to slap a guy around....leave the lights on..or put a caterpiller in his cell....or dunk them in a tank of water...

I think this is a clear sign of too much estrogen in the water supply...the rise of the metrosexual....

I wonder how ANY of you guys could possibly rise to the occasion of fighting a war.....much less defending your own families from a random maniac...

And if you are a vet spewing this stuff?...shame on you...dont BS me...you'd cut a man apart to save your platoon...if not...you arent worthy of their trust.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

Paradoxically, you would destroy this country in order to save it, in your view. You would tear up the sentiments, laws and documents that lie at the heart of this nation. That makes you no better than Al Qaeda because you are both working for the same ends.

WOW....

That's pretty polluted logic....

You'd stand by and watch the deaths of hundreds or thousands of your fellow Americans for your self perceived morality....

Yet I'm just like Al Qeada because I'd do anything to stop it.....

And you dont see any flaw in that?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

...including tearing up the Constitution, its laws, and all the international treaties this country has made, thereby likely creating a totalitarian state where was once a democracy. Now that you are standing on the bodies of the one-time enemies who sought to destroy your country, don't you feel better looking out across the destroyed landscape of your country's institutions? solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

Your thinking leads to totalitarianism and fascism.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html

Any ends justified to try to establish a link that never existed.

"Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn't any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam, and that no such ties were likely because the two were fundamentally enemies, not allies."

Senior administration officials, however, "blew that off and kept insisting that we'd overlooked something, that the interrogators weren't pushing hard enough, that there had to be something more we could do to get that information," he said.

A former U.S. Army psychiatrist, Maj. Charles Burney, told Army investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility were under "pressure" to produce evidence of ties between al Qaida and Iraq.

"While we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al Qaida and Iraq," Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. "The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . . . there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results."

Utterly repulsive.

"Last year, FBI Director Robert Mueller told Vanity Fair that he did not "believe" that there had been a case where "any attacks had been disrupted because of intelligence obtained through the coercive methods."

Pink Slip

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124044188941045415.html

Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair got it right last week when he noted how easy it is to condemn the enhanced interrogation program "on a bright sunny day in April 2009." Reactions to this former CIA program, which was used against senior al Qaeda suspects in 2002 and 2003, are demonstrating how little President Barack Obama and some Democratic members of Congress understand the dire threats to our nation.

George Tenet, who served as CIA director under Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, believes the enhanced interrogations program saved lives. He told CBS's "60 Minutes" in April 2007: "I know this program alone is worth more than the FBI, the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency put together have been able to tell us."

Last week, Mr. Blair made a similar statement in an internal memo to his staff when he wrote that "[h]igh value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa'ida organization that was attacking this country."

Yet last week Mr. Obama overruled the advice of his CIA director, Leon Panetta, and four prior CIA directors by releasing the details of the enhanced interrogation program. Former CIA director Michael Hayden has stated clearly that declassifying the memos will make it more difficult for the CIA to defend the nation.

It was not necessary to release details of the enhanced interrogation techniques, because members of Congress from both parties have been fully aware of them since the program began in 2002. We believed it was something that had to be done in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks to keep our nation safe. After many long and contentious debates, Congress repeatedly approved and funded this program on a bipartisan basis in both Republican and Democratic Congresses.

Last week, Mr. Obama argued that those who implemented this program should not be prosecuted -- even though the release of the memos still places many individuals at other forms of unfair legal risk. It appeared that Mr. Obama understood it would be unfair to prosecute U.S. government employees for carrying out a policy that had been fully vetted and approved by the executive branch and Congress. The president explained this decision with these gracious words: "nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past." I agreed.

Unfortunately, on April 21, Mr. Obama backtracked and opened the door to possible prosecution of Justice Department attorneys who provided legal advice with respect to the enhanced interrogations program. The president also signaled that he may support some kind of independent inquiry into the program. It seems that he has capitulated to left-wing groups and some in Congress who are demanding show trials over this program.

Members of Congress calling for an investigation of the enhanced interrogation program should remember that such an investigation can't be a selective review of information, or solely focus on the lawyers who wrote the memos, or the low-level employees who carried out this program. I have asked Mr. Blair to provide me with a list of the dates, locations and names of all members of Congress who attended briefings on enhanced interrogation techniques.

Any investigation must include this information as part of a review of those in Congress and the Bush administration who reviewed and supported this program. To get a complete picture of the enhanced interrogation program, a fair investigation will also require that the Obama administration release the memos requested by former Vice President Dick Cheney on the successes of this program.

An honest and thorough review of the enhanced interrogation program must also assess the likely damage done to U.S. national security by Mr. Obama's decision to release the memos over the objections of Mr. Panetta and four of his predecessors. Such a review should assess what this decision communicated to our enemies, and also whether it will discourage intelligence professionals from offering their frank opinions in sensitive counterterrorist cases for fear that they will be prosecuted by a future administration.

Perhaps we need an investigation not of the enhanced interrogation program, but of what the Obama administration may be doing to endanger the security our nation has enjoyed because of interrogations and other antiterrorism measures implemented since Sept. 12, 2001.

Mr. Hoekstra, a congressman from Michigan, is ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence."

--------------
Or in other words, if we prosecute Dick Cheney and other Bush Administration officials for this, we also need to prosecute each and every member of Congress, Republican AND Democrat, who voted for this program.

This notion that Congress was 'unaware' of what was going on is nothing more than partisan spin and total crap.

My position is simple- torture is wrong, period. But this deserves a much more comprehensive conversation given the info about the thwarted LA attacks without the easy and obvious partisan talking points.

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

But this deserves a much more comprehensive conversation given the info about the thwarted LA attacks without the easy and obvious partisan talking points.

Partisan talking points? Like the one you just wrote--
"the thwarted LA attacks"

The attacks were "thwarted" before these guys were tortured.

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue, this is about breaking the law. Whoever broke it needs to be prosecuted. I don't know how I can say this in a more non-partisan way.

What other laws are OK to break? These politicians need to be held just as accountable to the law as ordinary citizens. They are NOT above it.

Pink Slip

No, I'm not. I'm stating a fact. A troubling one at that.

I thought my point was clear but I'll state it again. The Bush Administration and Congress (Republicans and Democrats) who drew up, voted on, and supported this policy should be all lumped in together. A majority of Congress voted to approve this and that includes Democrats as well.

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

What about those of US who approve of it?

Should we be brought up on charges too?

You gonna round up all the people who didnt vote for Obama next?

Just where does your insanity end?

Last update - 08:23 09/12/2008

Suspected 9/11 mastermind, 4 co-defendants offer to confess

By Natasha Mozgovaya, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Israel news, September 11

GUANTANAMO NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the mastermind behind the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, and four other co-defendants told the military judge of their war crimes tribunal at Guantanamo on Monday that they want to immediately confess to all charges.

They could face the death penalty if convicted.

In a letter the judge read aloud in court, the five defendants said they request an immediate hearing session to announce our confessions.
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The letter implies they want to plead guilty, but does not specify whether they will admit to any specific charges. It also says they wish to drop all previous defense motions and fire their lawyers and represent themselves.

Mohammed said that after he was tortured by the CIA, he no longer trusts anyone, accusing the court and lawyers of working for the U.S. government.

Another suspect, Ramzi Bin al-Shibh was firm in his commitment to Jihad.

"I reaffirm my allegiance to Osama Bin Laden," he said. "I hope that Jihad continues, and hits in the heart of America with all kinds of weapons".

Behind him sat 9 members of families of victims of terror attacks, including 9-11, who were allowed to attend the process at Guntanamo for the first time.

The military commission hearing on Monday seemed like a farce, with no one was listening to the other. Everyone had their own agenda and script, and was playing by different rules. The judge did his best to conduct the hearing as if it was any normal trial.

The courtroom, hidden behind a barbed wire fence, was presided over by a judge in black robes with the suspects sitting at wooden tables with interpreters and lawyers at their sides - almost like a normal courtroom.

Uniformed soldiers sat against the walls, but even though the defendants were allegedly among the world's most dangerous criminals, none of the soldiers looked to have been armed in any way.

The defendants' civilian lawyers and representatives of civil rights organizations attended the hearing to ensure it went according to law and the prisoners' rights were not violated in any fashion. Nevertheless, the accused themselves said they had no interest in dragging out the legal process, as they are willing to die now.

The judge, Army Col. Stephen Henley, asked all five defendants if they were prepared to enter a plea, and all five said yes. But Henley said competency hearings for two of the detainees would prevent them from immediately filing their pleas.

The five face 2,973 counts of murder, one for each person killed in the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks.

Several of the defendants said at previous hearings they welcomed martyrdom. They may have felt that opportunity slipping away with Barack Obama's election, as the note to the judge said the defendants made their decision on Nov. 4, the day Obama was elected.

Obama has said he will shut down the Guantanamo prison camp and try detainees in the regular U.S. civilian or military courts rather than the special Guantanamo tribunals created by the Bush administration.

Family members of 9/11 victims exited the courtroom shaken, but told journalists they were "extremely proud of the country that allows those people who proudly confessed killing almost 3000 people, fair trial."

"We were expecting of Ramzi Bin al Shibh some kind of provocation," said Alice Hoagland, mother of Mark Bingham, who died in the crash of hijacked United Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11.

"I found it amusing. There was much suffering in our house as in the families of the other families of the victims, and our life will never be the same. But we're a nation of laws. They don't even deserve the glory of execution and martyrdom. We should assure those dreadful people spend their lives in American prison, guarded by those whom they hate, to show we have respect for life, even for those miserable lives. I don't believe Guantanamo needs to be closed ? I've got a sense it got a bad reputation mainly because of Abu-Ghraib prison. The very famous waterboarding of Sheikh Muhammad didn't take place here, but in Afghanistan in 2002, by the CIA that were eager to obtain intelligence."

"I am struck at the tremendous efforts our country is going through to ensure fair trial", said Hamilton Peterson, who lost his father and stepmother on flight 93. "The suspects were allowed to take prayer breaks, their interruptions were answered patiently by the judge. Those people were smearing and laughing and passing notes, they didn't look tortured, and they made a joke of this court, but they were very knowledgeable about what was going on. It's clear to me they are knowingly and happily guilty. It appeared they were aware of our presence."

He expressed hope that after President-Elect Barack Obama received an intelligence briefing, it brought him "new awareness about what happened in the last 8 years", said Hamilton. "I believe GTMO won't be closed or relocated, especially at the times of economic crisis, but expanded, because when we look to Mumbai we know what's expected here. I think he'll come to awareness that it's a fair venue. The presence of the international press here, including Al-Jazeera, shows America is taking the high road, and it's the only way to proceed. Most of the attention was on Osama Bin-Laden, but for me Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the major operative player, and for me personally to see him afforded all the rights made me proud of this country."

"I personally was relieved when they actually admitted doing it, killing my son and almost 3000 other people," told Mauren Santora, whose son was among the firefighters killed at the Twin Towers. "They were proud to be guilty and it says a lot about them. I can say that my son would be proud of the U.S. government that ensured those people received fair trial. My son's death won't be in vain. They should finish this trial, and I'm glad it's not happening on the mainland."

Her husband Alexander added: "I am proud to be the citizen of a country that allows them to stand and talk freely about all the "wonderful things" Osama Bin Laden did." The couple brought with them pictures of the firefighters killed in 9/11 attack. "Their voices were silenced, but we have a duty to speak on their behalf," he said.

Defense representatives claimed that 9/11 proceedings was a "show trial", and some of them even added that the family members of victims were brought to the trial for the first time as "a blackmailing of President-Elect" to argue for the continuation of Guantanamo trials. The Prosecutor dismissed this allegation, saying that "we are confident in the process and it's important that it will be as open as possible.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

What fact are you stating? Because the "fact" about torture helping to "thwart" an attack in LA is NOT a fact. In fact, it's completely opposite of fact.

But I do agree that any Democrats that knew and approved of the Bush adminstration torture policy should be prosecuted as with the Bushies and the Republicans that knew.

Pink Slip

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/la-terror-attack.html

"According to a new Senate Intelligence Committee report released last night, President George W. Bush made a written determination that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, with its minimum standards for humane treatment, did not apply to Al Qaeda or Taliban detainees, clearing the way for a new interrogation program based on “Chinese communist” tactics first used against Americans during the Korean War.

Now, with pressure growing to investigate Cheney and others in the Bush administration for their roles in approving the controversial techniques, conservatives are turning up the heat.

Exhibit A in the case for torture: Defenders of the practice say the waterboarding of Al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced information that allowed the U.S government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles in 2002.

According to a previously classified May 30, 2005, Justice Department memo that the Obama administration released last week, before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

After the "enhanced techniques," which the agency used on him 183 times, KSM -- the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks -- told investigators about a "second wave" of terrorists from East Asia who planned to crash a hijacked airliner into a building in Los Angeles.

After he was subjected to the waterboarding technique, wrote Conservative News Service's Terence P. Jeffrey,"KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key Al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles."

The Justice Department memo concluded:

In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques. ... [They] had expressed their belief that the general U.S. population was "weak," lacked resilience, and would be unable to "do what was necessary to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals."

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

American Heartland, you're not paying attention. KSM was not captured until 2003. The LA attempt was thwarted in 2002. Therefore the tortured used on him (in 2003 remember?), could not possibly have helped to thwart the LA attempt (in 2002, remember?). Unless they used their "way-back" machine

Pink Slip

I just looked it up for myself. March 1, 2003. But supposedly, he was involved in the planning the second wave of attacks that would hit LA, Chicago, Seattle, and NY.

Either way, we need to have a conversation on this outside of partisan passion. I agree that we shouldn't be lowering ourselves to terrorists levels by engaging in this behavior. Conversely, I also tend to think that President Obama's initial instinct to leave the past behind and move forward was the best course of action to take.

If this 'prosecution' moves forward, we will have for all intents and purposes a political civil war between the left who seem to be obsessed about putting Cheney, Rove et al in jail and the right who see this as nothing more than a partisan witch hunt bent on criminalizing political decisions made in the heat of battle and in the middle of crisis.

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

But supposedly, he was involved in the planning the second wave of attacks that would hit LA, Chicago, Seattle, and NY.

Maybe or maybe not, but none of the intel from his torture prevented any attacks. It's too bad you feel we should just "move on" and let our politicians get away with breaking the law. It doesn't have to be partisan if we are just discussing what is legal and what is not.

Pink Slip

While not totally certain, I'm 95% certain the 'second wave' of attacks AH mentions were all part of the thwarted LA skyscraper attack in 2002, before KSM was captured in '03.

If that's the case 'waterboarding' did nothing to prevent those attacks, at least not the 'waterboarding' of KSM.

I never said that.

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not sure where exactly I stand on prosecution.

Political Championship Wrestling- putting politics in proper perspective by presenting it as pro wrestling.

Coming in January, a political satire about the sorry state of American Politics- Jesusland vs. Progressiveville.

'Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair got it right last week when he noted how easy it is to condemn the enhanced interrogation program "on a bright sunny day in April 2009."

I do agree there is alot of merit to this.

The entire mindset of our country from Sept. 12, 2001 to around winter 2003 was predicated on the fear of the possibly, actually 'probably' as the administration kept hammering away at, of more attacks. How many times did the 'color code' for risk of attacks go to 'orange' during that timeframe? A larger question--were the raised levels justified by sound intelligence or was the intelligence manipulated to suit certain purposes, or a combination of both?

Either way, this is the reason many Dems (and certainly some Republicans) signed off on 'enhanced techniques' and voting to invade Iraq. It was fear they'd be labled weak in wartime and on overall security issues. Emotion carried the day and it colored virtually every decision made by both parties during that timespan.

The press was also mostly on board with all this, witness Judith Miller and the New York Times carrying water for the administration on 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq.

We now must refer to 'terrorist" as "Overseas Contingency Operators". We cannot use “enhanced techniques of interrogation" but must refer to it as "torture".

So, now we can only slap the wrist of "Overseas Contingency Operators" who claimed the lives of 3000 or so innocents so to avoid the use of "torture". Meanwhile millions of innocent unborn continue to die under the Obama administration because it is OK or even humanly acceptable to torture and kill them under the guise of legalized abortion. How dare we be burden with such a punishment as an illegitimate baby, a true gift from God.

Oh, that's right, I forgot...we are not a Christian Nation. Sorry Founding Fathers, the Messiah says it's true so it must be.

Does anybody else see the irony here?

If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth. ~Japanese Proverb

No

Not even a little.

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

to the Muslim world, that of wiinning hearts. I am thinking of posting this . It was today on WJR radio
http://wjr.com/Article.asp?id=1289245&spid=6552
or one of you guys can post this if you want.;

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