Mark Sobczak, A Known Carty Cronie, Endorsing Independent Mike Bell

Is Mark Sobczak honestly endorsing Independent Mike Bell on his own, or is there an aroma of Carty in this alliance. We all have to remember that Mike Bell was professional when he didn't rip Carty's arm off when called King Kong.

No votes yet

Maybe this is Marks's way of separating himself from the current mayor. It certainly sends a message to me he is separating himself from the Democratic party, the very people who got him elected in the first place.

...Democratic Party he would endorse Moody (a Republican) for mayor. So endorsing another Democrat (even though I admire Bell's life) does not seem to show he is really leaving the standards of the Democratic Party in Toledo. Whether any of these men (or a woman) will be able to solve the problems we face (and will face) over the next couple of years remains to be settled.

Old South End Broadway

the SOB sold his soul to the unions decades ago. He doesnt act on his own.

He's simply doing what his string pullers are instructing - Carty's not in the favor of the unions of late, so the union puppet masters are making Sobocchio dance in another direction.

it means Carty won't run again.

C'mon, lets face it, if Bell and Moody get past the primary (and it's doubtful Moody will), Bell becomes the democrat. If Bell gets elected, he becomes a democrat. He'll be welcomed with open arms by either team. As I've said here before, there's no doubt that Mike Bell is a great guy. But he's part of the old guard. Mike Bell won't bring change to Toledo.

Why is everyone walking so softly around this Mike Bell issue. Mike bell has never been elected to any public office, or ever supported any candidate or issue for anything. Just because he didn't break Carty's face for calling him a large monkey and jumped out his car, ripped his shirt off and showed the "S" on his chest while rescuing a damsel who was in no danger, doesn't make him a good candidate for mayor. We don't even know what his platform is. I say let's listen to what he has to say instead of concluding we need a nice guy for mayor to replace the clown who presently occupies the 22 nd floor.

I've met Mark Sobczak and he has always been a nice guy too, but I could never determine where his loyalties were.

I think Carty won't run, but I think Carty is setting himself up through Sobczak to get someone in the Mayor's office that he thinks he can manipulate.

I don't think Mike Bell is such a wimp that Carty could manipualte him, but I feel Mike's response to Carty calling him King Kong was very weak and pissed off many people of color. Who know's what happened behind closed doors. I know if Carty said something to me that was demeaning to Jewish people I would have made it publicly and legally clear that Carty's remarks were unacceptable. Maybe Mike and Carty made a deal. If Mike didn't press the issue Carty may have promised to support him in the future for any political ambitions he might have. Since Carty is so unpopular right now, this may be the way Carty is supporting Mike through Mark.

to voice their opinion about Mike Bell because when you call out people with revisionist history accounts of Mike Bell's accomplishments you may be the subject of libel on a different blog such as was done to me.

I made comments on SB about the History Mike's revisionist history account of Mike Bell’s participation at the 2005 Riots and was accused on Glass City Jungle of being “one African American woman who detests Mike Bell’s proposed candidacy.”

I never said that I detested Mike Bell’s candidacy, what I said was that I do not like revisionist history geared to make Mike Bell a hero of the Riots.

I am still looking into the legal issue of whether this constitutes libel or not.

Purnhrt, has Mike Bell or his lawyer contacted you about libel against him? Note well historymike has no basis for bringing any such suit against you for anything said about Bell's actions or lack thereof.

So I wouldn't worry about it. If there's a differing account of eyewitnessing, then it would be fairly difficult for a court to DEMONSTRATE complete knowledge of events that would indicate libel.

Good luck with that, purnhrt. You referred to Mike Bell on Swampbubbles as "the great white hope" and then complain because I briefly mentioned this at Glass City Jungle on a related post. This post is an obvious attempt to respark the flame war you tried to hatch earlier with me, but I have better things to do than to play games with you.

So enjoy the bed you made for yourself, if indeed your "family realtionships are being harmed" (as you claimed in your email threatening legal action) due to your comment about Mike Bell as the "great white hope." If you are embarassed, it is only because of your own big virtual mouth, not my quoting of your own words.

BTW - I have to applaud the humorous (though transparent) attempt at trying to goad me through the use not once but three times of "revisionist history" in the above post. Best laugh of the day so far, although admittedly it is only 5:47 am as I write this.

my problem with the comments made by the historian
HistoryMike is how he went from my commenting on the events of the Riot on SB and Mike Bell and turning that into a comment on Glass City Jungle that he knew of "an African American woman who detests Mike Bell's candidacy," which was a blatant, outright lie.

This comment generated comments form GCJ of a racial nature, which then turned into a "conversation" about Mike Bell dating white women. The connotation being that I detest Mike Bell's candidacy because he dates white women. Simply not the truth.

This is a race for the position of mayor and as far as Mike Bell's running for mayor the only problem I had with him as a candidate was his lack of a definitive reaction to the King Kong remark.

Many like to take my remarks and turn them around to suit their own needs.

And what kind of..............
Submitted by purnhrt on Tue, 2009-03-10 23:44.
street cred is that? And what did he do at the Riot? I was out of town that weekend and don't remember any reports of Mike Bell walking out to talk to the rioters. Did I miss something.

and there is the few of us that take the remarks that you do make and remind others of how stupid they were in context.

Face it, purnhrt, there's no side-stepping facts and your smokescreen antics just show how stupid you assume the rest of us are.

she really threatened legal action, Mike?

she's the one who made the issue an issue lmao:

I just have a problem ...............................
Submitted by purnhrt on Wed, 2009-03-11 13:21.
with revisionist history. As I was in Washington DC the weekend of the "riot" I just did not remember seeing that Mr. Bell went out into the crowd and all went quiet. What I remember from being told by people being there that Mayor Ford and whoever he was with did not get a warm reception from the crowd. I also do recall that Mansour Bey was also one of the people with Mayor Ford. I just did not remember Mr. Bell playing a big part in the "quelling" of the "riot."

I would have to talk to the people who I know were there and get their story. So I will get back at cha. :=)

no, purnhrt, you need to sue those that were at the riots and failed to inform you of all the facts.

Mike did his job bringing the facts to light in your ignorant world and you still relied upon your ignorant friends to give you ignorant information and now you're pissed that the historian was correct this whole time...

Here is the email, which was forwarded to me since I am no doubt one of the recipients of the threatened "legal action":

From: twila page
Date: Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Subject: Comments on your blog GCJ
To: Lisa Renee Ward

Lisa Renee.

There are comments on your blog that require scrutiny. I am sure that the esteemed History Mike made his comments to draw me out into an discourse with him on GCJ. But that will never happen. However, his comment "I know at least one African American woman who detests Mike Bell's proposed candidacy and she derided Bell as the great white hope." I believe that I am that woman and I have never said that I detest Mike or his candidacy. Anyone with a command of the English language will be able to discern that my comments were toward History Mike and his revisionist historical recounting of the North Side riots and the part that Chief Bell played.

The comment that I detest Mike Bell is erroneous, libelous and possibly slanderous. Libel is: anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.This statement has the potential to harm relationships that I have in the community as well as family relationships.

Since you are the owner of the blog and you also know full well what was posted, please contact History Mike and have him retract these statements. I have too many relatives who are paralegals, attorneys and judges for these statements to be allowed to fester in the blogosphere, without taking legal action.

I want this statement removed and declared erroneous by midnight tonight. I am not asking for an apology for this lie but I do expect a retraction by either you or History Mike on Glass City Jungle.

Twila Page


THIS is what she is basing her defamation issues on??

That's it??


THIS "I know at least one African American woman... is what she is basing her defamation issues on??

That's it??

calm down and stop repeating yourself. Yes, that is what "she" is basing her legal issues on.

History Mike: I am glad that Lisa Renee shared the email with you. And you are the only "recipient" of the threatened legal action.

I don't know why you would make a statement like that when you knew that it was not true. You don't know me and no place on Swamp Bubbles or anywhere else did I say I detested Mike Bell's candidacy.

For someone who is held in such high esteem by the posters here on SB, there was no reason for you to resort to making a false statement about me on Glass City Jungle. Absolutely no reason, other than to maliciously damage and misrepresent.

Brian Wherever and Billy actually have nothing to do with this other than to cheer you on in your malicious behavior. Hopefully you will man up and retract that statement.


No Twyla, In not JUST here to cheer HM on, although I am enjoying myself.

Im also laughing at the irony of the note you sent to Lisa comparing it with some whining you did toward TPS instead of taking accountability for your own responsibilities in past postings.

Most wont know what Im referring to, but I do find it humorous...

Carty steps down as Mayor meanwhile Pete Gerken takes a job with the Governor which opens up his commissioner seat and the dems appoint Carty to Gerkens seat. Now that is democracy my friends, democrat style.

PS: Twila - unless you are the only African American woman in this city/state/country/world, your legal action is pretty Fu#%@. Sorry babe! Maybe the litigation lottery will come knocking again soon!

Here once again are your very own words. Now try to spin them in such a way as to make it look like you are not against Bell's candidacy:

Mr. Bell has become the great white hope for Toledo. He is passive and will probably get a lot of white votes. White men and women in charge like a black passive man who does not mind being compared to a gorilla. I don’t know how that will play in the black community. Maybe we will just sit this one out and let you all battle it out with Moody, Carty, Wilkowski, Konop and whoever else decides to throw their hat into the ring.

From where I stand, calling Bell " a great white hope," "a black passive man who does not mind being compared with a gorilla," and "maybe we will just sit this one out" sound about as far from an endorsement of Mike Bell as you can get.

Bell is being held up as an example of civic virtue. I do not know if he is who we need for mayor. It has been rightly brought about that he has never owned a business, or met a payroll. So who do you think in the black community, or the white one, would serve the needs of the majority of citizens of Toledo without driving out the businesses that provide employment?

Old South End Broadway

before you cuss me out at least know what you are talking about. Follow the threads on SB and then go to GCJ and even you will see the direct connection.

Don't egg Hm on without all of the information.

But you still keep avoiding the issue of your own words. You can spin it all you want, but you know darned good and well that you wrote what you wrote, and the more you post, the sillier you look in trying to turn the conversation away from what you said:

Mike Bell is a "great white hope";
Mike Bell was "passive" after being called a gorilla by Finkbeiner;
White folks like "passive men" like Mike Bell;
and African Americans might "sit this one out."

One more time: how is this anything but a condemnation of Mike Bell's candidacy? Answer the question directly, please.

Here is the post at GCJ where I referenced purnhrt's remarks. I used her comments only to point out to previous posters that there is no mythical "black community" in Toledo that votes lock-step by color, and that African Americans have as wide of a variety of reasons for voting for or against Mike Bell as do whites.

Purhrt is offended that her comments got singled out, but she has only herself to blame for posting them on a public forum. If you cannot take the heat, I suggest that you relocate far away from the kitchen, Twila.

on here and GCJ, I believe it's a parsing of words that seems to be of issue.

I wouldn't say, based on Purhrt's comments provided concerning Mike Bell, that she detests Bell's mayoral candadicy, but perhaps a more proper word might be respect or, to be more precise, 'disrespects'.

Basically, in her opinion, Mike Bell just isn't all that and she doesn't get where the lovefest is coming from in regards to him.

The flip side of that coin, Purhrt, is I believe HM never said you 'detest' Mike Bell as an individual, but simply the thought of him being a 'candidate for mayor'.

Obviously two completely different things.

In any event, let's set aside the ridiculous notion of lawsuits here. Life's too short.

From McCaskey: While I haven't read every comment pertaining to this on here and GCJ, I believe it's a parsing of words that seems to be of issue.

You should and it isn't. Twyla is just being her usual self. Again. The woman hates. She spews her hate filled posts anywhere and everywhere a SysOp will tolerate them. She doesn't mean well. What she means to do is start an argument and turn the heat up so she can play the race card. Again.

The only thing more insufferable than Twyla Page's contributions is what's his name, who is either back on his medication or has been suspended again.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Fair enough, McCaskey. Perhaps "detests" is too strong of a word, and it could have been replaced with "questions," "disagrees with," or "has issues with" to describe Twila Page's feelings about the candidacy of Mike Bell.

Perhaps if Twila Page had approached me in a reasonable fashion - instead of firing off lawsuit threats - I might have been willing to edit the word. Or she could have simply cleared all this up with a clarification of her own on this board or others where she claims her reputation is harmed by her comments and my linking to them.

But I suspect that this would involve the swallowing of pride, and this might not be acceptable to a person like Twila Page, who seems to go through life angry and looking for people upon whom she can vent her anger.

Twila, I certainly don't know you personally, but my suggestion would be to try using more 'carrot' and put the 'stick' away for when you really need it, which is probably alot less often than you think it is (that applies to the rest of us as well).

Carrots won't do it. Carets might, but I'd be more inclined to use $100 bills and back it up with a formal apology.

From Twyla Page: I am still looking into the legal issue of whether this constitutes libel or not.

You keep this up and you're likely to find out. The hard way.

Even if one malevolent, vindictive, cretinous African American woman that I know of despises Mike Bell, I think he'd make an excellent mayor. I believe I'll send him a campaign contribution.

By the way, Twyla, the 'Kong' comment made by Toledo mayor Carty Finkbeiner had no racial overtones or intent. Mike Bell was smart enough to recognize that and responded accordingly. Too bad you aren't a little more like Mike Bell.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

me advice, which I do appreciate as opposed to being called names, maybe you should read the entire thread on SB. You seem to be a level headed person and then maybe you as a reasonable person can see why I feel that the post on GCJ was meant to defame.

What advice would you give HM for using my entire name in his post to you?

The main problem I have with the "detests" post on GCJ is that first of all it is a lie, and the liar knows that it was a lie. It was done maliciously and was done to defame. Whether or not I file a lawsuit would depend on legal advice from an attorney. I don't consider that a "stick."

The other problem that I have with the post is that I find it quite troubling why a person who in his own right
is a well known historian working on a PHD, would stoop so low to lie about something so trivial. Trivial in the respect that I am a peon when compared to HM and all of his credentials. Why would someone of this caliber attempt to disparage someone he doesn't even know.

Then the HM fan club comes out of the woodwork to atta boy him. I really don't get it.

1. Once again, nice job trying to deflect and divert away from the real issue which is your own words. If your previous words about Mike Bell were inaccurate, then just day so. Otherwise, it looks an awful lot like you are very much against the Mike Bell candidacy for mayor.

2. BTW - what is this "lie" I supposedly wrote, purnhrt? I merely linked to your own harsh comments about Mike Bell. We might disagree about whether "detests" is too strong of a word to describe your feelings about Mike Bell's candidacy, but you hardly seem to be a fan.

3. Your full name has been used many times on this site, Twila, and you have repeatedly injected yourself into the public arena with your activism vis a vis Toledo Public Schools, so let's not pretend you have somehow been "outed."

4. YOU are the one who keeps this thing going, not me. I had all but forgotten about your threats and rudeness of mid-March until YOU brought it all right back up. In this very thread. If you want the drama to end, I suggest YOU move on. However, from my perspective, you seem to be enjoying this waaaaay too much.

5. From your email, you also seem to have a weird fixation that I somehow am trying to goad you. I could care less about you, your activities, and so forth, but when you make accusations against me and threaten me with legal action, you can bet I will respond to such accusations.

'The main problem I have with the "detests" post on GCJ is that first of all it is a lie, and the liar knows that it was a lie. It was done maliciously and was done to defame'.

I'm not an attorney, and I didn't sleep in Holiday Inn last night (hope you're familiar with the commercial), but all I can say is good luck proving 'intent' with this (malicious defamation).

I'd probably also weigh in that with that paragraph you might be setting up yourself to be sued, or possibly counter-sued. Count how many times you've called him a 'liar' in this thread.

As far as your full named being used by HM, as he's already pointed out, that's been done by numerous others here and on other boards at various times.

Well, my attempt at playing Henry Kissinger-style mediation has failed miserably. I see peace is not 'at hand.' (oldtimers like Jack and historian-types will get the reference).

Why, you young whipper snapper, you just give me a minute to get out of this chair and I'll show you old!

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Of the mayoral candidates at this point, here is how they fare with me. Chief Michael Bell is a maybe since the original post about the 2005 Riot, I have learned a little about his platform. I like Jim Moody's platform but the fact that he bought a website that should have belonged to another candidate, I find that deceptive behavior. Wilkowski is not a possibility because of how he behaved while appointed to the school board. I just recently found out that he was elected twice in the late eighties to the school board. But I think someone said that his children did not go through TPS. This could or could not be true and I haven’t done any research because this mayoral election really doesn’t hold that much interest for me. Konop definately won’t work for me because of ethic and personal issues that I have with him. Opal Covey seems like a good choice for me. Did I forget anybody?

So right at this very moment it is between Bell and Covey. Bell won lots of points for pulling the woman out of the car.

But I think someone said that his children did not go through TPS.

do you feel that way about Jack Ford as well?

what are you talking about? What is typical? For the record Jack Ford's daughter goes to a TPS school but what does Jack Ford have to do with what I posted? You are a silly man.

your statement might be construed as slanderous!

Maybe your too many relatives who are paralegals, attorneys and judges could 'splain that to you.

But then again, all the kings horses and all the kings men couldnt keep humpty out' da slammer again...

...have a council to support them. If Bell can get the unions to recognize the taxpayer as the source of their future well-being, then we might avert future disaster.

Old South End Broadway

what does Jack Ford have to do with what I posted?

from a person that fails to respond to inquiries to things you've posted on a regular basis.

I'm just loving the irony.

back to my popcorn....

for someone who supposedly doesn't even live in Toledo, you sure have your nose in it's business.

Don't they have any local blogs with local issues wherever you are?

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