Toledo SWAT busts wrong apartment

I have been advocating against SWAT teams for a long time. Well, it has happened in Toledo. These guys kicked in the door of an innocent citizen, held her at gunpoint, and terrorized her. Whoops, wrong address, wrong apartment. This woman might have been a statistic if she had been aggressive or uncooperative when her door was kicked in. "I'm just angry very angry. I'm trying to get over it, but I keep seeing it," says Tanya Michael. We should get rid of these cowboys.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=10127831&nav=menu34_5

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Half of your "facts" are incorrect. While the SWAT team did get the wrong apartment number they did have the correct address. And Ms. Micheal's door was not kicked in, as she stated herself it was propped open with a trash can. It was a mistake but those things do happen, luckily no one was hurt and she was apologized to.

Oh yes, of course, just a little mistake.

Crap like this makes me so angry I can't see straight. Carty wants to lay off Toledo police to balance the budget. Good. Lay 'em all off, we'll be better off without the JBTs.

Worse, there's virtually no news coverage about this and no lawsuit being filed. No police have been disciplined or fired. Just business as usual.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

I wouldn't want to go through what Ms. Michael did, but I will bet out of the 400 plus raids they conducted last year that someone was happy they did the vast majority of the time.
Since they successfully raided the correct apartment shortly after this incident I'll guess that given time, Ms Michael would rather have the SWAT team around too. Just get the number right.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=6486107

When it's YOUR home, YOUR castle, no mistakes should happen. They should get their effing address correct. If it happened to you, I really doubt you would be so kind. People get killed over these kinds of "mistakes". Get rid of SWAT.

Mistakes like this CAN NOT BE ALLOWED! The details of this type of "raid" should be gone over and over before hand to prevent mistakes.
The article doesn't mention it but I wonder if it was a "no knock" raid?
If it was, let's face it, if you are a law abiding citizen and someone bursts into your home unannounced with weapons you have every right to shoot them.

That would probably get you killed quick....all because of a "little mistake".

"We're all riding on the Hindenburg, no sense fighting over the window seats"-Richard Jenni

Now, wait just a cotton-pickin' minute here. SWAT teams generally have police markings on them. Why would you then fire on them?

Because mistakes were also made with the identifying markings on their Kevlar vests and helmets? TWAT and SWAT are close enough for government work! At least in Toledo.

...after Tuesday.

Old South End Broadway

Maddie's not going to agree with me, but SWAT serves a purpose and doing away with them is a mistake.

However, like with any power tool, if you misuse it, people get hurt for no sane reason whatsoever.

We misuse SWAT for serving a host of bullshit drug warrants, putting everyone at risk for what's intrinsically not worth hurting or killing people over.

As for the address mistake, the serving of a warrant like that has more details. Generally, a SWAT team leader (Lieutenant?) is supposed to be given the warrant, with the ADDRESS, and the DESCRIPTION of the address. That's what really protects your house when some clerk mis-types "123 Anywhere Lane" with "213 Anywhere Lane" -- the house descriptions are likely to not match.

But with an apartment, there's a big chance that the exteriors look the same, hence the description won't protect you.

I must repeat: SWAT serves a purpose. It's a hydraulic hammer; it's loud and overwhelming. So you should RESERVE the use of a hydraulic hammer for the tough jobs only.

Screw those clowns. Women and children are allowed to make mistakes, not men. It is a serious matter with no margin for error.

"It is a serious matter with no margin for error."

You've got that right. Check, double check, and check again. Verify your facts, then act swiftly....

BUT -

Women and children are allowed to make mistakes, not men.

That little ditty is so moronic it's laughable! Where did you come up with that, the douche bag handbook for idiots?

Here's a question for you, if a woman was leading the SWAT team, what then?

It's easy, Billy. Women aren't allowed to serve on a SWAT team, much less lead one. See?

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

what part of what you just said gives any value to Mariner's moronic statement?

The part where he says It is a serious matter with no margin for error. He's right. When those law enforcement officers put on their gun and badge, they're doing so in order of importance - the gun, because Col. Colt made us all equal - then the badge, because it has ceased to be a symbol of honor, respect and bequeathed authority, and is now a membership ID card in the largest gang in the United States. Those SWAT team officers entered that apartment unlawfully, and because society has become so inured to abuse of police authority that includes outright criminal acts, nothing is done to punish the offenders or correct the situation.

I'm over looking Mariner's comment about women. I'm concentrating on the 'children' section. Children are allowed mistakes. Anyone who carries a loaded gun is not.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Is SWAT useful and necessary? It is if you believe Toledo Police Chief Mike Navarre. From the Toledo Journal: ''I know it happened once that I can remember,'' he [Navarre] said. ''It may have happened more than once in the past. But keep in mind we did 632 raids last year.''

http://thetoledojournal.com/News/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=95126&sID=4

632 raids in a year? That's about 53 raids per month, well over one raid per day. Either Toledo is actually a DMZ and no one knows it, or SWAT is being so over used that SWAT is now a weapon used to instill fear into the general populace, which is very likely given Toledo's mayor and Chief JBT.

My contention with GZ's argument about the necessity of a SWAT team centers around its use. Since the current administration can't use SWAT responsibly, SWAT should be taken away from the police immediately and its equipment confiscated by the DOJ for a few years or until the city administration changes.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

53 raids per month? Sounds like a good city to steer clear from.

They are conducting these numbers of raids because they created it and now they have to use it to justify its existence. I doubt the original concept of SWAT included arresting low level drug dealers with this blunt force agency. But there you are, use it or lose it.

SWAT should only be used in ultra-dangerous and very important (like life-threatening) situations. As it is, it's used as a matter of course when a simple arrest would do, as the Lima matter showed. If the cowboys abuse it, they should lose access to it. Breaking down doors and holding guns to innocent people's heads in their homes is intolerable.

As it is, it's used as a matter of course when a simple arrest would do, as the Lima matter showed

You sure got that one right. The origin of SWAT teams isn't clear, but the concept seems to have been justified by Charles Whitman in the Texas tower and Ronald Reagan, then governor of California, having to deal with the Black Panthers. At that time, the Panthers were carrying loaded weapons during their demonstrations and protest marches about civil rights, and the carrying of loaded firearms by anyone other than police makes the police uncomfortable. And we can't have that, can we.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

Men

Billy: Don't think I want my wife, mother, grandmother or children aboard an aircraft going down in a river with you on the plane.

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