RIP auto bailout -for now

Looks like the auto bailout is DOA - for now.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=6443946&page=1

No votes yet

All Republicans care about is cheap, disposable labor. Below-subsistence wages, and no legal protections - a workforce that’s grateful for crumbs because they have no other options.

An eleventh-hour effort to salvage a proposed $14 billion rescue plan for the auto industry collapsed late last night as Republicans and Democrats failed to agree on the timing of deep wage cuts for union workers, killing the legislative plan and threatening America’s carmakers with bankruptcy.

“We’re not going to get to the finish line. That’s just the way it is. There’s too much difference between the two sides,” Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) announced after 10 p.m., concluding a marathon negotiating session that ended in gridlock. Reid warned that financial markets could plummet when trading opens this morning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/11/AR200812...

Cheap labor and gay-marriage laws....the pillars of conservative dogma

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

Global stocks are plummeting due to Republican Senators, who want Americans to take another pay cut.

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

The entire auto industry has been mismanaged since the 1960s. All that's happening here is that avaricious greed is catching up to everyone involved. I'd let the companies all file for bankruptcy and see if they do any better the second time around.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

They''ll be able to get rid of the unions. If they cannot reduce the price of vehicles so that there will be a large enough market for them, then they can reduce production to match demand. If the price continues to rise on per unit production (because of smaller runs) they can consider cutting models, and/or combining production with plants so that per unit cost goes down. They will find a way to make this work but they may have to depend of foreign sales to be profitable.

Old South End Broadway

So we have a foreign car companies building a plant in a deep red welfare states where they use tax payer money from the blue union states to lower the living wage for everyone.

Let get a quick break down:
http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/corporate_subsidy/automobile_assembly_plant...

In 1992 South Carolina ushered in the new wave of investment by foreign carmakers in the South by offering BMW a package that was ultimately worth an estimated $150 million. A decade later, the state put up an additional $80 million in infrastructure aid when BMW decided to expand its operations in the state.

In 1993 officials in Alabama lured a Mercedes-Benz facility, the first foreign auto plant in the state, with a package worth $258 million.

In 1999 Alabama put together a $158 million subsidy deal to land a $400 million, 1.7 million-square-foot Honda plant. In 2002 state and local officials provided an additional package worth $90 million, including $33 million in tax breaks over 20 years, when Honda decided to expand the facility.

In 2000 officials in Mississippi lured a $950 million Nissan plant with a $295 million subsidy deal. While the plant was still under construction, the company announced an expansion of the project that also involved an increase in the subsidy package to $363 million.

When South Korean carmakers Hyundai staged a competition for a $1 billion plant, various states put together bids, but it was Alabama that won the contest in 2002 with a package worth $252 million.

Commentators much made of the fact that when Toyota chose San Antonio, Texas in 2003 as the location for an $800 million assembly plant, the company had not selected the site with the most generous subsidy package. In another example of the fact that subsidies are not the most important factor in investment decisions, Toyota highlighted criteria such as access to the large Texas market for the pickup trucks that would be built at the plant. This is not to say that Toyota passed up all government assistance. The company received a package valued at $133 million, including $47 million in tax phase-ins and waived fees.

Yet:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

South Carolina gets back over $1.30 for every dollar they send to the federal government.

Alabama gets over $1.60

Mississippi gets over $2.00!!!!!

Michigan only get .92 back…

The fuckers down South are using our tax money to build auto plants that pay significantly less then turn around a bitch about how much our guys are paid.

They wouldn’t even been able to afford to build the plants if they weren’t sucking at the tteats of the blue states.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/12/news/companies/auto_future/index.htm?pos...

Mr. President might toss a crumb out before he sails over the horizon next month. Maybe someone's a tad concerned about his legacy. I can just hear that smirky West Texas drawl now..."Here ya go there, fellers, can't say I didn't do nuttin' for ya"...

The problem here isn't the credit market crisis.

The NY Times put it best this weekend what the problem is NO ONE WANTS AMERICAN CARS.

In another thread everyone is bitching about gas prices still. Guess what if you own an American car you're going to be paying more in gas than that of a similar car from a foreign automaker. The car companies didn't address the consumer's needs and paid double for it. If any other business in any other industry this would be a non-issue. Blaming Republicans is just deflecting off an industry that REFUSES to meet the consumer's needs.

MikeyA

MikeyA

The car companies paid millions toward campaign contributions.

Don't act as if this even being brought to the floor wasn't bought and paid for prior to the credit crisis.

MikeyA

MikeyA

The NY Times put it best this weekend what the problem is NO ONE WANTS AMERICAN CARS.

Exactly, and that's not the workers' fault. But don't tell me Mikeya that there isn't a concerted effort among Republican legislators to put the blame squarely on the unions. All you have to do is listen to Corker, Vitter, Shelby, etc....

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

Ok

"Exactly, and that's not the workers' fault. "

So my tax dollars are to be given to a company that clearly can't compete in order to keep a work force, that's makes double what their counterpart in another state does?

And to take issue with SensorG's comment.

The American Auto has been getting KILLED by foreign autos for years. The only portion of the American car industry that has beaten the foreign companies was SUV's but gas prices did them in.

BTW I'm not putting any of the blame on unions for this crisis. I put the blame on the CEO's for making the deal with the unions. However we wouldn't need any "bridge loans" if the unions agreed to a small cut per hour for it's employees. However again I don't trust the CEO's to spend that or the loan money wisely. GM and Chrysler at the very least will go bankrupt REGARDLESS of what we do.

If you want to spend your money on it GO BUY ONE OF THEIR CARS!

MikeyA

MikeyA

So my tax dollars are to be given to a company that clearly can't compete in order to keep a work force, that's makes double what their counterpart in another state does?

Since the average GM worker makes $28/hour, are you saying that auto workers in right-to-work states make an average of $14/hour? That's pretty sad. No wonder right-to-work states have higher poverty rates.

[edit] More holes in MikeyA's claim. Here's some info on the latest UAW contract (2007):

If carried out as planned, by 2010--the final year of this existing contract--total compensation for the average UAW worker would actually be less than total compensation for the average non-unionized worker at a transplant factory.

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

Since you like them so much you should have bought their shitty gas mileage cars and paid their salary.

Now you can bitch about the right to work states but they have something the unions now can't tout JOB SECURITY.

MikeyA

MikeyA

You remember that old Soviet-era Russian joke about the guy who was horrified when his neighbor came home one day with a goat? It really bothered him that his neighbor had a goat and he didn’t. After stewing about this for a few weeks he went to the local Party boss and complained. The boss said, “I understand, comrade. I will try to find you a goat.” To which the guy replied, “No, no – I want you to kill my neighbor’s goat.”

I did buy one of their cars. I hate to keep raining on your parade MikeyA, but bankruptcy for the big 3 will also affect foreign car makers, since they use the same parts makers. If the parts makers aren't getting paid....

Also, my tax dollars are already going to right-to-work states in the form of federal dollars that are used to subsidize foreign cars makers (sensor has pointed this out already)

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

*

There will be a LOT of dead goats shortly, never fear. ;^)

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

Well maybe you should have gotten your friends to buy more of their cars. Because that's the whole reason they're in this mess is they couldn't sell enough cars.

Oh BTW the Big 3 recieve federal subsidized money as well.

MikeyA

MikeyA

I'm going to call bullshit here...

Are American car sales down? Yes

But so are foreign car companies as well...

This isn't "American cars are crap and no one is buying them" story. We're in the middle of a world wide recession. All car sales are down everywhere.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2.sbcJ1phj0&refer=home

Auto sales in the U.S., the world's largest auto market, fell to the lowest annual rate in 26 years last month. Toyota's sales slipped 34 percent. Honda Motor Co. expects the market will shrink to between 12.5 million and 12.6 million vehicles next year. Toyota and Honda traditionally get more than 50 percent of their annual operating profit from North America.

...

Toyota's domestic sales plunged 28 percent in November, as industrywide sales dropped to the lowest tally in 39 years for the month. Toyota sold 83,000 vehicles in Europe in October, down 14 percent from a year ago. In the first 10 months of this year, European sales dropped 6.4 percent, Toyota said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jrDXwac8SXvLFX4NV7n_wW...

BEIJING (AP) — China's government is considering ways to support struggling automakers after sales dropped 16 percent in November, the country's industry minister said Friday.

Remember, China, Japan and Korea have socialized medicine and companies don’t pay near as much into healthcare as American companies do. Hell GM would be in decent shape if they didn’t have to pay medical benefits for all of those retired and current employees.

BTW -
Here are the 18 Republican Senators who voted for $700 bllion to the Banks, but against $14 billion to the auto companies...

Bob Bennett, R-UT
Richard Burr, R-NC
Saxby Chambliss, R-GA
Tom Coburn, R-OK
Norm Coleman, R-MN
Bob Corker, R-TN
John Ensign, R-NV
Chuck Grassley, R-IA
Judd Gregg, R-NH
Orrin Hatch, R-UT
Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-TX
Johnny Isakson, R-GA
John Kyl, R-AZ
Mel Martinez, R-FL
John McCain, R-AZ
Mitch McConnell, R-KY
Lisa Murkowski, R-AK
John Thune, R-SD

Tools...everyone last one of them.

Still beating a dead horse...

Rachel Maddow: GOP's Platform is Now to Reduce the Wages of American Workers

??

How long until her show is canceled?

She is absolutely dreadful.

Her show beats Larry King and holds it's own against Hannity & Colmes....

Pink Slip

Pink Slip

Her rating are good for MSNBC anyway. She beats Larry King often and crushes Glenn Beck...

Prove it. By the way Glenn Beck is not on TV.

You know we have this thing called "Google"...

Glenn Beck was on TV till about a month ago on CNN Headline News at 7pm and 9pm...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/media/17fox.html?partner=rssn...

Mr. Beck appears first at 7 p.m. and then in a repeat at 9 p.m. The 7 p.m. show has been averaging about 375,000 viewers in recent months, and the 9 p.m. repeat exceeds 485,000 viewers.

He's moving over to Fox News Channel to help make them more "Fair and Balanced"...

Here is September 16th for example...
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/17/cable-news-ratings-for/5165

PM - P2+ (25-54) (35-64)
Hannity & Colmes–3,136,000 viewers (716,000) (1,375,000)
Larry King—1,710,000 viewers (496,000) (801,000)
Rachel Maddow Show–1,801,000 viewers (534,000) (872,000)
Business of Innovation—a scratch w/102,000 viewers (a scratch w/42,000) (59,000)
Glenn Beck- 656,000 viewers (211,000) (354,000)

Rachel crushed Glenn...

If you want to keep your fukin jobs, YOU will have to bite the bullet too. It's not just a "management" problem that your crappy work makes your crappy overpriced cars hard to sell.

 

UAW balks at wage cuts next year

 And those UAW jobs will go away next year also. So is it better to loose your worthless jobs rather than take a paycut to keep your employer in business? Well, that answer is obvious.
Enjoy unemployment (before Ohio runs out of it)

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081213/BUSINESS0...

They don't want a paycut. But they're laid off.

Life can't be too bad. When I got laid off I didn't have enough disposable income to sit in a bar.

This is why I contest the $28 an hour that was quoted earlier. When they're not working they still get pay. My cousin (an auto employee) makes 90% of his pay while laid off. With business practices like that I wonder how they've stayed in business this long.

MikeyA

MikeyA

Really could not find much. Found this, http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/28594/uaw_losing_pay_edge_foreign_au..., which seems to indicate that if you find good investments (such we have in our stock market right now) you could invest perhaps your profit-sharing from your Japanese plant (perhaps back into the plant) or a percentage of your paycheck, and start your retirement that way. Of course, I think you will have to be "hands on", and hope the market does not tank again in the next 20 or 30 years. It will be like working overtime or maybe a second job to keep an eye on your money. Unless you get to be friends with (or suck the d**k of) a manager in the company, and then you might have a sugar daddy to help you with your investments. Rent an apartment or house, take the bus, and invest the rest. The capitalist system will take care of you just like they did in the past year.

Old South End Broadway

Despite years of record profits, the big oil companies are in trouble now due to the sudden drop in the price of crude.

Look for Big Oil to line up for their turn at the taxpayer trough to fill up on their portion of the corporate bailout.

After all, Big Oil is "too big to fail"

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

Says most of the blame is Washington and Wall Street. Your thoughts? Some of the items he is right on, others he is way off.

its kind of funny that the democrats, unions and labor force all hate George Bush so much....now they have to crawl on their hands and knees to the White House and beg him to bail them out. And...going against all capitalist and conservative values....he will. If I were him...I would make the union leaders physically kiss my ass on national television before approving the bail out.

You prove the point again that conservatives dont want to govern, they want to fight.

And liberals prove again they want the government to take care of them from the cradle to the grave. Democrat liberals want to govern? Ahhh...Ahhh...Ahhhh....Blagojevich!!!! God Bless You.

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