Do you feel like the people who are responsible are being punished by paying for everyone not responsible?

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What do you think? Do you think that you are being stuck with the bill for everyone else? What encouragement is there to be responsible anymore?

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I was having this same conversation with my mom and sister today. We all agreed that we should quit working. Our 20 to 30 year old adult children cannot get their teeth fixed, but if they were on ADC they would have full dental. I am seriously considering telling my daughter to get pregnant and live off of the government so she can get her teeth fixed. She works 40 hours a week with no dental or medical insurance. She pays taxes and from those taxes she is paying for others to get their teeth fixed!
In the summer we turn our air conditioning up and in the winter we turn the heat down so we can afford our heating and electrical bills AND everyone else's heating and electrical bills who do not work.
I watched my brother who has not worked or paid taxes in 30 years get his 600.00 rebate check from the government. I heard a female bragging about the 2006 auto that ADC purchased for her, while I drive a 12 year old car.
In 20 years about 50 percent of the population is going to be retired. Who is going to pay for all of these perks that are given out using the employed's money now?
I am a little fed up with being responsible.

You only got a rebate check if you filed a tax return...your statement doesn't make since.

Why not?

She said that her brother hasn't "paid taxes." That doesn't mean that he didn't file a return this year to get a rebate check.

You can file a return but not actually owe anything. Or file a return and get back everything you paid in throughout the year, plus some. Filing a return does not necessarily mean "paying taxes."

Like the previous post, some where in the swamp,

"Q. How are the rebates calculated?

A. Rebates are calculated on the basis of taxpayers' 2007 adjusted gross income, which includes salaries and wages, interest, dividends, capital gains, taxable pensions, royalties and farm or rental income. It does not count contributions to individual retirement accounts, 401(k) retirement plans, tax-free health savings accounts or student loan interest payments.

Rebates for low-income people who don't pay taxes, including the elderly and disabled veterans, will be a flat $300 if single and $600 for couples."

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/02/12/news/doc47b085d5417f104635...

The whole house of cards is built on spending, not saving.

The more we save and do not spend, we hurt the economy.

So spend every dime ya got, help the country, SPEND!

Yes

I agree, lets all quit working, quit paying our bills and loans.

Does it even matter anymore?

Sometimes I wonder the same thing.

Silly me - I took on a mortgage that I felt comfortable with...less than what the bank wanted to give me, but at least my house was paid off before the age of 35! I busted my butt to get through school and get a good job. I drive an older, less fancy car than I technically "could" drive, because my cars are paid off. You get the idea.

And yet a portion of my money (though taxes, higher prices, etc.) is going to bail out people and businesses who made stupid choices with their own money.

I would completely agree that sometimes it feels like you are punished for being responsible!

The percentage of those who receive assistance is not what is causing your tax dollars to be wasted. For every $2,000 you spend in Federal taxes this is where it goes:

$840 goes to Past and Current Military
$440 goes to Health
$200 goes to Interest on Non-Military Debt
$180 goes to Anti-Poverty Programs
$80 goes to Education, Training & Social Services
$80 goes to Government & Law Enforcement
$60 goes to Housing & Community Development
$60 goes to Environment, Energy & Science
$40 goes to Agriculture, Commerce and Transportation
$20 goes to International Relations

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/taxchart2008

In Ohio? Maybe you'd have a bit more to complain about - 45.2% of the budget goes to Health and Human services - 38.3% goes to education.

http://www.obm.ohio.gov/budget/operating/executive/0809/bb0809_brief.pdf

We don't remember days only moments...

Good question...Great for late night rambling...

Yes - everytime I read about people screwing the system, about cheating disability, or illegally tapping into welfare, etc. I do get miffed out of my gourd. Why should I pay into a system that can be twisted or subverted so easily?

On the other hand, every system has its abusers. People who leach off the system, who take advantage, are crooked. And are more than happy to do so as much as possible. Because people abuse the system of help being provided, doesn't mean that (a) the system is necessarily bad or (b) that it isn't desperately needed. Cripes, I went through a spell of unemployment in the last decade and needed help to bridge through jobs. Embarrassing to say, but there it is...

And I do truly think that the number of people cheating the system is just a small percentage, not some out-of-control pandemic. I think that there is sensationalist quality to when we find out the cheats - they stick in our craw, and are more memorable... If I think of all the people I know who have had to tap into the system, not a one was doing so to get a free ride. And none were proud or happy of the fact.

So yes, I do feel torqued off at times, but no, I don't think that I'm unfairly footing the bill or shouldering the load. I wish I had more money of course, but I work damn hard, have a qualitatively higher quality of life (materially?) from my parents and grandparents before them, and am happy to be able to contribute in ways that I can to help others who need help.

*disclaimer* this is NOT a wholesale endorsement of HOW we do unemployment, healthcare, etc. That is a different debate for a different time.

Chris,

No offense, but are you kidding or are you trying to be a "community organizer" disguised in a messiah costume?

Yes, of course we are being stuck with the bill due to the irresponsibility of others. The real issue is not does it happen, but why should it happen?

The whole point of why people are irresponsible is that sometimes they can get away with passing the cost onto others. And other times they aren't so lucky.

The thing is that it's hard enough to have to pay for our own irresponsibility but to have to pay for the irresponsibility of others is immoral.

Irresponsible means not being answerable to a higher authority so the question is what is the proper higher authority?

Well we pay 12,000 a year in FEDERAL TAXES; so those numbers increase dramatically for us. We could purchase a health policy for our daughter yearly with the amount that we DONATE to health alone.
IT is not just the Federal Goverment that takes their bite out of the check; State, County,and yes, let's not forget the City taking what they want. On top of that we give additional money to charities. I am rethinking giving money to Charity. I give enough money through my taxes.
I am also sick of seeing buildings that cost millions of dollars that charities are paying for. I don't care what fund they are taking the money out of. If they have millions of dollars they can use that money to give to someone in need. There are a lot of large vacant buildings in the Toledo area they can move in to. United Way is not getting my 600.00 next year. I am giving it to my daughter so she can have her teeth taken care of. The next year I am going to pledge my 600.00 to anyone I see working at a Burger King with bad teeth.
I will mail a check to the Cherry Street Mission once a year.

Or

http://www.dentalcenternwo.org/

They would help your daughter since they do dental work on a sliding fee scale based on income and they are not funded by the government but by private donations...

We don't remember days only moments...

I read the title of this thread, and I assumed it referred to Wall St CEO's who get millions, run their companies into the ground, and then we bail them out. Take from the many and give to the few.

People like Pink Slip

Pink Slip

To disasters.

This has made me wonder for years.

People choose to live in areas, around coastal regions, and build homes on the beach and one good hurricane or flood and all is lost.

Then, there is building in areas that are known to be tornado areas. Dorothy and Toto are swept up and away.

Not a problem.

Assistance is handed down to rebuild in the same areas. The same areas.

And the next weather season that same thing happens.

How many billions are we spending on these programs of assistance.

Or the subsidies to the mega farms.

Compared to the national events of this past week, getting worked up about ADC is strictly small potatoes.

The Secretary of Treasury has been is authorized to transfer $700 billion of taxpayer money to private industry in his sole discretion, and nobody has the right or ability to review or challenge any decision he makes. The national debt was raised to 11.3 trillion dollars to accomodate this 'plan'. Best of all, according to the draft of the plan: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

As Glenn Greenwald on Salon.con has pointed out:

"What is more intrinsically corrupt than allowing people to engage in high-reward/no-risk capitalism -- where they reap tens of millions of dollars and more every year while their reckless gambles are paying off only to then have the Government shift their losses to the citizenry at large once their schemes collapse? We've retroactively created a win-only system where the wealthiest corporations and their shareholders are free to gamble for as long as they win and then force others who have no upside to pay for their losses. Watching Wall St. erupt with an orgy of celebration on Friday after it became clear the Government (i.e., you) would pay for their disaster was literally nauseating, as the very people who wreaked this havoc are now being rewarded."

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my original response I specifically referenced the bailout of "people and businesses."

Are there signs in the halls of the buildings where our leadership works, that say, this is not Burger King and you cannot have it your way?

This attempt at limiting over sight by other branches of our government is just down right foolish.

My brother is on SSI and they gave him the 600.00 stimulus check. The case worker filled a return and all he had to do was sign it. He does not pay taxes, he does not work and he lives off of te government. I am happy he had 600 to spend for fun, but the point is that he rec'd the money and he did not work. So everybody who filed a return, even if they never worked, gets a government stimulus check.

If you made more than 150,000, the stimulus amount you were entitled to receive quickly tapers off to zero.

Big Jim

Big Jim

is very much on the housing bailout, health insurance plans, banks bailout, most likely hurricane bailout and the long term inflation it will cause will cost me more in the long run than any short term fall of a bank.

I am particularly gulled at those who bought a house for too much, then buy another one and walk away from the previous one. World News Tonight had a feature on that a couple of weeks ago and the people were proud of what they did. Plus, the federal government should waive any help for anyone who builds their house on the coast of a hurricane zone.

If my parents told me that if you work hard, make good decisions, spend wisely, that you will end up paying for those who are not, I don't know if I would have wanted to have a desire to have a good life.

I am particularly gulled on the fact that the cause of the behavior is not being changed therefore making the cycle most likely to repeat.

different set of morals and values. I have worked since I was 14 years old. I think in many Books of the Bible and in different ways Jesus states that the poor will be with you always. I am just glad that I am not one of the "poor." I have never wanted for anything, been hungry or thirsty or cold and have always been able to give back.
I have never been on welfare, received foodstamps, received free medical care, filed bankruptcy or had my lights or gas paid for. I own my own home, a vehicle and sundry other items paid for by hard work.
I don't get people who look with disdain on people in need, whatever or however the need came to be. Everybody is not a mooch. I am glad that I have had an able body and an agile mind and am glad and thankful that I am on this side of poverty because some of you have real cold hearts and I wouldn't want my heart to be like yours.

Kinda makes me chuckle.

When some thing is no longer mine, it is usually someone else's and I have no control over what the other person does with it.

We vote for people, because they tell us what they will do and promise to do.

Then when reality hits us, we see that the promises and words were that, promises and words and actions are needed.

I've worked since 16, had a few layoff's collected unemployment, attended re-training under a NAFTA clause and now work two part time jobs, because of situations beyond my control.

Punished? Nope, just the way life is at times.

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