The Greatest Threat America Has Ever Faced: the GOP

The guy that wrote this was in the Reagan administration.

"Republicans are sending around the Internet a photo of a cute little boy whose T-shirt reads: “The mess in my pants is nothing compared to the mess Democrats will make of this country if they win Nov. 2nd.”

One can only wonder at the insouciance of this message. Are Republicans unaware of the amazing mess the Bush regime has made?

It is impossible to imagine a bigger mess. Republicans have us at war in two countries as a result of Republican lies and deceptions, and we might be in two more wars--Iran and Pakistan--by November. We have alienated the entire Muslim world and most of the rest.

The dollar has lost 60% of its value against the euro, and the once mighty dollar is losing its reserve currency role.

The Republicans’ policies have driven up the price of both oil and gold by 400%.

Inflation is in double digits. Employment is falling. (cont.)

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

November 2nd, what happens on November 4th?

the republicans don't know what day it is.

that is because the date is from 2004. The 2004 election was held on Tuesday, November 2.

guy's opinion. You would think someone who was once a treasurer would also think that some of the prices have gone up because other countries are vying for the same resources, but hey it is an election year have fun. Also it is fun that you ignore the Democrat Congress's responsibility for the mess. These problems crept up dramatically under their watch and they are as much to blame as anyone. There is a reason Obama is not running away with the election, and that is because voters know the major candidates and parties are a part of the problem. Since you think that the Democrats will run away with it, have fun. It probably won't happen-voters won't make the same mistake twice.

There is reason for concern. If the D's do take over, America will probably go the way of Toledo and Lucas County which has been destroyed economically by one party (and this continues even today). Even look to Detroit and how that city was run down by Democrats. So yes, just look locally what has occurred, and there is reason for concern.

Chris, Come on! Who's playing politics here? YOU!!

Republicans controlled Congress for the last 6 years of Clinton's presidency. Clinton had to close down government twice, and threaten to do so other times to rein in the "borrow and spend" Republican Congress! The proof of this is that when Republican Bush #43 was sworn in as President in 2001, the Republicans went on the greatest spending spree in U.S. history, without the resources to do so! With a Republican president and a Republican Congress from 2001 until 2007, it was borrow and spend, borrow and spend, and borrow and borrow some more from anyone, even the Communist Chinese!! Doesn't this bother you, Chris, as a good conservative??? And as far as McCain and the economy are concerned, I heard him say -- it's on tape -- that he (McCain) doesn't really understand the economy!

As far as Toledo's economy is concerned, all local office holders deserve some share of the blame. Carty usually aligns himself with the Republicans on City Council when it comes to economic matters. Carrying the label Democrat doesn't mean you always act like one. But you are ignoring the fact that for 16 long years, until 2007, the government of the State of Ohio was totally controlled -- all three branches -- by the Republicans. And their focus for economic investment was overwhelmingly tilted toward the "3 Cs". Toledo was part of the "other Ohio" that received little from the Republican state leaders.
I personally felt the wrath of former Senate President Aronoff, when I asked a fairly inoccuous question about this at an Ohio Federation of Teachers' convention. But, despite his protestations otherwise, the "other Ohio" was never high on the Republican agenda during their sixteen years of total dominance!

If the D's do take over, America will probably go the way of Toledo and Lucas County which has been destroyed economically by one party

Of course, historically speaking America does better economically under a Democratic administration. I'll post some numbers for you if you'd like. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

Pink Slip

Good point. Ideologues don't let facts stand in the way of their opinions!

lol, way ignore the issue or try to rationalize it.

Yes, post the numbers for the area. Explain that when the national unemployment numbers are so low, why they are so horrible here and in Detroit. The fact is overall, the economy has been pretty good over the last few years but hit hard locally because you have more people like yourself who want to blame people in Washington, but not look locally and hold those local officials accountable.

So post the numbers, let's see how bad this area has declined under Republicans and Democrats. It is funny how you and dalealpertcheck want to ignore what happens locally but blame everything on Columbus and Washington.

You have been trained well and you are proving why this area is in the mess it is in and why other areas like Wood County are exploding.

The fact is overall, the economy has been pretty good over the last few years

Brilliant! Make a statement that says the exact opposite of what is really happening. Most economists agree that the national economy is tanking, and yet Chris Myers says it's been "pretty good". How do you come to that conclusion? Check out Toledo's unemployment numbers @, and you'll see that our unemployment falls when a Democrat is in the White House, and rises when a Republican is in office.

It is funny how you and dalealpertcheck want to ignore what happens locally but blame everything on Columbus and Washington

It's also funny how you can discount the way poor federal policies can impact us here locally. Ironic that many conservatives remind us of the "global economy" when it suits them, but when things go sour it's no longer a global economy---it's suddenly a local economy. Anyway, here are more numbers for you to chew on.

Pink Slip

The difference between Wood and Lucas County should be easy to see.

Lucas County for the most does not efficient access to highway or rail.

Whereas the building and expansion in Wood County is based on easy on and easy off access, and one of the larger CSX rail yards is located in Wood County.

Toledo at the heart of Lucas County is not efficient and strategically located, which is one reason why Fed Ex left.

Planning over the decades seems to be an after thought.

The greater Toledo area declined and continues too because all the eggs were in one basket, automotive.

With the automotive industry in decline it effects the area.

But there is the solar energy industry getting more and more interest and yet when our representative in Washington sits down at a table to hear other ideas, it is a bad idea.

The same bad idea that the government should not help business with tax payer money and yet, the candidates in both parties want to do that, encourage businesses through incentives to locate here or there.

McCain is proposing a 300$ Million dollar lottery of sorts for the auto industry to produce more efficient vehicles and yet some of the party faithful do not want government involved in matters like that.

"Unemployment at 4-year high
Employers trim payrolls for seventh straight month in July, as jobless rate rises to 5.7%, a full percentage point higher than year ago."

I do so get a kick out of those, that have not had to experience the down turn and job loss and loss of income and savings and tell those that have, hey, it ain't so bad out there.

Nah, not for you maybe, but for the other is tough.

Can either candidate offer a quick fix? Nah.

It is a natural cycle of highs and lows, as if a slow down in the economy is something new and unseen.

Tell the guy in my neighborhood that things aren't bad, after his rental house was stripped from top to bottom of siding and then after putting on the new siding, and is being stripped once more.

Typical Republican, “I got mine, screw everyone else.”…

There an article just from today.

NEW YORK - This Labor Day finds workers in worse shape than they’ve been in years, according to a scorecard released Monday by Rutgers University.

In its first national labor scorecard, the Rutgers School of Management and Labor Relations said more than 10 percent of Americans are unemployed, discouraged from seeking work or underemployed. That is a nearly 25-percent increase from one year earlier.

BTW – How is that 401K doing? Or the value of your house? I know I’m about $80K poorer then I was a few years ago…

for giving us fucking John McCain as a choice

I'm voting for Obama just because of that.

I'm sooooooooo tired of McCain is going to do this and that


you had choices and this was the best you can do

which is why your party does not deserve my vote

Give that man another.
03:44 ?

Bartender !
Submitted by el mahico on Sun, 2008-08-31 08:20.
Give that man another.
03:44 ?

think I got the problem Chris? really? no, seriously, you think I'm as fucked as this?

my cats ran across me and woke me up, Gary, got up for a glass of milk and checked for the NASCAR Nationwide race winner seeing I fell asleep at around 11 during the race and while drinking my milk I wandered around the web and posted something

I didn't realize that you keep tabs on my time when i post as well as what, when, how and who I post about. stalka

shame you couldn't have the same dilligence with your Carty-given City Job®, you'd have been somebody today instead of a moronic douchebag with nothing better to do than stalk me.

Really, Gary, what purpose does this serve in that shallow existance of yours? Help work you through that sobering effect of daylight?

your lawyer buddies are going to love this stuff!

you are such a douchebag

this is a warning EM

and will refrain from addressing him


Consumer confidence non-existent, highest gas prices since-who-knows-when, housing market meltdown all over the place, ever-diminishing middle-class...this pain is basically just being felt in Rust-belt cities with Democratic mayors and strong union presence?

"You have been trained well"*---

I would whole-heartedly expect this kind of crass reference from other conservatives on here but this is a little over-the-top for the usual meek-and-mild type such as yourself, isn't it, Chris?

Run out of mustard for your Labor Day picnic hot dog? The Kool-Aid supply seems fully stocked, at least.

academy computer service as your source is worth noting the unemployment trend before Clinton took office trended downward proving it did not start with him.

For a real source:

Employment is currently at 94%, pretty damn good. But in areas like Toledo, it is much higher due to the poor leadership exhibited by one party democratic control. Again, proving the point there is reason for concern.

It is still nice how you don't explain why areas like Toledo have a much higher unemployment rate than the rest of the country. I am still waiting.

BTW Wood County just landed an intermodal and will soon have 4-8000 jobs. Democratic leaders in Toledo are backstabbing themselves preventing it from happening. What a perfect example of what voters need to watch out for. What project in Toledo landed 4-8k jobs? They are all fleeing to Wood county because they know there is better leadership, less social legislation and leaders who want to get the job done.

Chris, What gall you have! What nerve!! To call the local Democrats back-stabbers?! What about you and your buddy The Stain??? You two take the back-stabbing Olympic gold!!

I've generally been sympathetic to your arguments with The Stain. Maybe he has good reason for distancing himself from you!!

By the way, your 94% national employment figure pales compared to the 96% under Clinton. And both overstate employment somewhat, since those workers who have given up trying to find a job are not included in the negative category. Also, we have many more underemployed now. Many thousands who were working in good to excellent paying manufacturing jobs with full benefits in the 1990s are now flipping burgers for less than half the salary and poor or no benefits. And your national Republicans passed laws during Bush #43's presidency giving tax incentives for companies to close their plants in America and move them to Communist China. The burger flippers still qualify as employed, though! There's an old saying: "There's lies, there's damned lies, and there's statistics."

I proved you wrong on the Wood County economic development and you still have not answered why this area has almost double high unemployment compared to the nation. I think the readers can see quite well what the problem is here, that is people not wanting to accept responsibility like yourself-blame others, it is not my fault, refuse to accept responsiblity-perfect-and that is the same belief on why Toledo fairs so poor on all of the stats, but hey it is not our fault- right?

Also, the comparison of any issues that the Stain may have with me is no where compared to Democrats preventing progress due to back stabbing. You really are grasping for straws to compare the two because they are completely different. Do I also want to say LCIC? These are items that prevent progress that the D's are responsible for. No wonder why everyone is fleeing to Wood County and the suburbs.

So there are two legitimate issues that prove my point of why this area is so far behind others. Being you cannot prove me wrong I think this debate is won and your silence on defending the local democrat leadership speaks volumes.

Democratic run Lucas county is 9.2%
Democratic run Toledo is 10%

including nearby Huron, Van Wert and Williams, have higher unemployment rates than Lucas through July of this year.
Fulton and Defiance counties have basically the same rate as Lucas. Even your vaunted Wood County, at 8.0, is higher than the national average.

Neighborhood has already answered your question pertaining as to why Lucas is in the bad shape (and yes, it is bad) that it's in.

Now, are all the counties in this state that have higher or the same unemployement figures as Lucas run by the same Democratic-machine operatives and old-school union- boss cronyism as you seem content to blame for all of Lucas' troubles?

Chris, you just can't admit that the Republicans have any faults or share any blame at all for any economic failings. You allow your ideology to impair your judgement.

First of all, I stated early on that many local leaders, both Democrats and Republicans alike share the blame for Toledo's decline. Toledo was the 26th largest city in the United States at the dawn of the 20th Century. Business owners, union leaders, the local media, and government leaders of all backgrounds dropped the ball in the 20th Century. Petty jealousies severely clouded their judgement. Few wanted to support ideas for economic growth unless it was their own idea.

The charges that you make against the Stain are every bit as vitriolic as any I ever saw or heard by one Democrat against another. After a lot of in-fighting, Ron Rothenbuler has the local Dems working together in a positive way. Chris, you can't have it both ways. If the Dems agree on everything, you would accuse them of collusion. If the Dems disagree, they're unorganized. All you "proved" is that you're a partisan Republican who can't admit that most Republicans who have been in charge, govern for the few rather than for the many. As far as the transportation hub being in Wood County, that has everything to do with the easy access to ground transportation and nothing to do with Democratic or Republican local officials. And, by the way, one of the Wood County Commissioners, Al Perkins, is a Democrat who always gets strong union support. In addition, the national trend is to locate new facilities away from central cities. Almost all the cities which are thriving are in the sunbelt, and/or near rich oil and/or natural gas fields. Everyone else is left out!

By the way, I guess that it must be a Republican flaw to declare oneself a winner in a debate in which one is a participant. I don't judge winners and losers in these things. I debate to shed light on the issues and lend balance to blogs dominated by right wing ideologues.

Chris can blame the local Dems all he wants. Truth is, the only thing worse is the local Repubs. How sad is it, that they can't get their shit together enough to provide any competition?

Pink Slip

for providing the same link to the dept. of labor statistics that my link provided in the left-hand margin..along with links to Dow Jones, the Federal Reserve and others.

The local economy is heavily reliant on auto manufacturing, which as you may have noticed is an absolute wasteland. The one-two punch of the strong dollar of the '90s and an oil shock in the aughts has decimated North American auto manufacturing. The Big Three are even closing plants in Canada and Mexico.

Sure, Lucas County's 9.2% unemployment rate is bad, but it's not as bad as the 10.7% rate in Huron County. That's the same Huron County that is currently represented in Congress by Republican Bob Latta.

The CSX hub in North Baltimore is going to soon employ about 100 people and may eventually provide up to 3,000 jobs. No one has claimed 4-8k jobs in North Baltimore as a result of the intermodal project down there.

Wood County does not have better leadership. If anything, governments in Wood County have shown themselves to be even more petty than those in Lucas County. Perrysburg uses the threat of water and sewer service disruptions to force annexations. The reason that Toledo was even involved in the Bass Pro deal is because Perrysburg Township knew they had to break Perrysburg's stranglehold on utility service. As Walmart how friendly Wood County governments are to businesses. They were forced by Perrysburg to pay $20k for permits even after Perrysburg Township approved their building and occupancy permits. The idea that Wood County is a business utopia because of their leadership is laughable.


"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at


now you are finally starting to talk about local numbers which is what matters. Glad it took a whole lot of typing to do that. So why is the area reliant on manufacturing? Because our leaders are so backward that only 10 years after the decline do they begin to realize what is going on and only now are starting to do something about it. Who has been in charge the whole time? Democrats. What has been the only constant in the decline in the last 30 years in Toledo? Democratic rule.

Regardless of the other counties and what is going on nationally is what happens here, and for you to not put the microscope on why the local leadership is failing, shows you are not interested and drink the cool-aid that it is Columbus or Washington where the problems are.

Bobthedad and others have mentioned all the others that have mentioned how great Toledo is positioned, but the local leaders, who are Democrats, fail to harness potential while scaring everyone away. Stab each other in the back when good things start to happen, and make, especially in Toledo an environment through high taxes and regulation a place where people don't want to be, which is why there are so many empty buildings.

So if you want to blame one party for the problems nationally, even though the Democrats have been in charge of Congress during this worse downturn, then you must blame the failures locally on the Democrats, who are in charge of every level of government and more responsible for what goes on than Washington or Columbus ever could be.

Regardless of the other counties and what is going on nationally is
what happens here, and for you to not put the microscope on why the
local leadership is failing, shows you are not interested and drink the
cool-aid that it is Columbus or Washington where the problems are.

The Feds also have little impact on a region's economy, the only
notable exceptions being near military bases and cities housing NASA
facilities like Huntsville and Titusville. Realistically the state only
influences economies through higher education.

Now look at Toledo's economy and why it is based on auto manufacturing and glass production. The history can be traced back to a few names, all of which located in Toledo because of reasons other than the party affiliation of the city government. The reason solar manufacturing is taking off in Toledo isn't because of government incentives, it's because of Harold McMaster and his research into thin film solar cell production. Economic niches like solar or glass production grow by creating experts who leave pioneering companies like Libbey and Solar Cells Inc. and launch companies like Owens Illinois and Innovative Thin Cells. These niches, or economic clusters, are how a few visionaries give the local economy an edge in a market that governments could never provide. It's easier to move yourself to a city with a booming cluster than it is to move the cluster to another city.

Bobthedad and others have mentioned all the others that have mentioned
how great Toledo is positioned, but the local leaders, who are
Democrats, fail to harness potential while scaring everyone away

What specifically is the local leadership doing to scare away companies looking to locate in the Toledo area?

So if you want to blame one party for the problems nationally, even
though the Democrats have been in charge of Congress during this worse
downturn, then you must blame the failures locally on the Democrats,
who are in charge of every level of government and more responsible for
what goes on than Washington or Columbus ever could be.

How about we don't blame either party? How about we blame the North American auto market for tanking due to an oil shock? The slowdown in the overall economy is due to a contraction of the money supply. Dana withstood a hostile takeover attempt only to be bitchslapped by a collapse in the auto parts market. Owens Corning's bankruptcy was caused by asbestos liability, not any government entity. Shit happens and there's little the local government can do about it. Markets are cyclical and all we can do on a local level is hang on while it all shakes out.


"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Ya, what he said.

When government fiddled and diddled with the Savings and Loan, on came the scandals and collapsed industry and tax payer financed bail out.

Same for the current world wide banking debacle.

Financial institutions wanted a greater slice of the pie, sure help yourself, let's change the regulations for ya, and wa-la, another banking debacle, this time world wide.

Because our leaders are so backward that only 10 years after the decline do they begin to realize what is going on and only now are starting to do something about it

Interesting to discover that you're looking to government for the answers.

What has been the only constant in the decline in the last 30 years in Toledo?

Except for the time Toledo had it's HIGHEST unemploment rate since the Great Depression, when Republican Donna Owens was in charge. Skipped right over that, eh?

Pink Slip

And the Ohio Governor and US Congress are Democrats right now. What's your point? You debate like a 6th grader, you are almost like a Jon Stainbrook supporter.

Empty frustrations from a failed politico.

You debate like a 6th grader

Hey, I'm not happy about dumbing down the conversation for you either. I'm used to debating much smarter people.

Pink Slip

What is with all the name calling ?

Chris is not a "failed politico" - his best political years are just ahead of him.

And Pinkslip is not a sixth-grader, she is a grown woman.

Try to stay on topic, please.


I kinda like being the referee for a change.

as if I care. If you are going to say such a thing PS, say I look like gomer pyle or something.

The current economic problems are a direct result of six years of exclusive Republican control of all three branches of the national government at the same time there was exclusive Republican control of all three branches of the state government. On the national level, the Republican economic plan was borrow from Communist China to give tax credits to American companies when they move their plants to China!! How patriotic!! Republicans are great flag-wavers, but the flags are stamped MADE IN CHINA!

In Ohio, the Republican economic plan is to say, in every two year election cycle, that Republicans want to cut taxes, but don't cut them too much, so that you can complain about the high tax rate in Ohio two years later! Remember, the Republicans controlled all three branches of state government for 16 years, until 2007! If Ohio's tax rates make us uncompetitive, who's at fault?!

Nice try! Blaming Strickland. Let's see. Strickland has been governor for 19 months. And Republicans still control both houses of the Ohio General Assembly, and have a stranglehold on the Ohio Supreme Court. And let me tell you, I've given testimony in Columbus and talked directly to Republican legislative leaders there. The one word that describes most of them, not all, is arrogant. Even after the Democrats made significant gains in the 1996 elections, the Republicans were condescending to most opposition testimony, and downright nasty to others. (They weren't nasty to me, by the way.)

Chris...I believe that you are a sincere person, but you are blinded by ideology. You can't admit, even to yourself, that Republican office holders can do anything wrong. Wake up to the statistics you love so much! Reagan, Bush #41, and Bush #43 spent money they borrowed from Communist China, and sent the bills to my children and grandchildren. Clinton -- the real fiscal conservative -- balanced the budget and had significant budget surpluses. Those are the simple statistical facts.

I hold up a mirror to you and you prove my point. You really should read what you write, because that is you. Just substitute Democrats with Republicans local with national.

Really??? Clinton balanced the federal budget. Which Republican President can you substitute for him? Which local Democratic Administration has run huge budget deficits. OOPS! They can't! By state law, all local and state govenrment budgets must be balanced. And in other threads I have admitted, and I'll repeat here, that local Democrats as well as Republicans have fallen into the trap of not supporting ideas that would move this region forward because of petty jealousies. You can't admit that any Republican --except The Stain -- ever does anything wrong!

That's the difference between a realist (me) and an ideologue (you). As an ideologue, your judgement is clouded and you simply refuse to let facts get in the way of your ideology!

Chris, Really? Wood County is booming? With an emphais on retailing? What happens to all of those retail stores if the overall economy continues to struggle?

The last time Toledo had an unemployment rate as high as the10% it's at now, was in 1992. Who was President? Bush #41, preceded by Reagan. During the Clinton Presidency, as the economy grew steadily, with only minor setbacks, Toledo's unemployment rate trended downward. Coincidence? I think not! Your statement is blatant misdirection and misinformation meant to win a political argument, pure and simple! Interdependence is inherent in a modern economic system. The only areas of the U.S. that are thriving are those perceived to have a brighter future.

All of us want a growing economy for our region and for the nation. If we all stop our petty, partisan bickering and emphasize our advantages in land and water transportation, as well as the largest source of fresh water in the world, the Great Lakes area can become an area of growth for decades to come. We already have entrepreneurs actively expanding in the area of alternative sources of energy. This is an economic sector that is hard to outsource to China or India. Such entrepreneurs can save this area from total economic ruin! And I don't care if they're Republicans, Democrats, or independents!!

for you to explain why the local economy is so much are proving my point by not addressing it. You also demonstrate that you are willing to blame everyone else for your problems and not accept responsibility and grab the bull by the horns and get things done. That is why this area is in the mess it is in, and these arguments prove my point.

Well trained indeed.

Uh...maybe because Toledo relied more heavily on manufacturing jobs than other areas

Pink Slip

As was the case in New England.

Maine and Massachusetts had a good number of paper mills. Most have closed up and gone out of business. Leaving behind workers with few skills.

Textiles to some degree on the North Shore in Massachusetts.

In the void moved in tech companies, the 128 Tech Corridor.

Maine lost many jobs to loss of paper mills, also.

Connecticut was heavily into a manufacturing economy, also. Bridgeport gave us the Bridgeport Milling Machines.

As the industry changed, Bridgeport suffered as manufacturers closed up and left.

There was a lot of emphasis also on the aero space industry in Connecticut and when the cut backs came, there was loss and suffering.

But the states reacted and saw the changes.

Here, we have the state of Ohio offering incentives to GM, which stated it was closing a SUV factory and rejected the incentives to keep the plant open.

Governmental leaders are very slow to react and not very good at seeing what changes are taking place and keep hanging onto, what was once.

Much has been made of this idea.

If one party has done so poorly for so long and the other party cannot field or find candidates to run against and show the citizens what can and should be done, who is responsible for the party failing to put candidates out there and getting them elected, the party in office or that party that fails to get candidates out as an alternative to the other party.

the election the more the party plays in it, but for local elections the party is not as important. There needs to be good individuals standing up and being supported.

Okay, right, so where are they?

Scotland was referred to as a place holder candidate, hardly a ringing endorsement for the candidate.

Smaller area and the party does not matter, it is the individuals.....

Then does that mean, regardless of the party in office, it is the individuals and not the party affiliation?

I mean our own councilman at large Sarantou voted for the trash tax.

About 15 years ago I listened to a presentation from a guy working for a local trucking firm in which he made a convincing case that the best opportunity for a successful future in Toledo was in developing our ideal location near the Great Lakes, interstate highways and airports as a transportation hub.

The guy's name was Paul Ringlein, who is one of the three Finkbeiner staff members recently suspended for handling the work done at the ESM. Ironic that Mr. Ringlein recognized this so long ago, but his current boss hasn't been so quick to come around.

point, BTD

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