Latest ESM fiasco that'll cost us more bucks??

OK, can someone verify?

Now that we'll need to be double paying for the painting that Croak's cronie's did (once to Croak and now the union will need to be paid per their contract), I understand there's ANOTHER dog in that fight...

Did I hear right that the Croakies painted over a mural that the city had paid $20,000 for?

And (I cant remember the mural, but Ive tried to stay out of ESM as much as possible, my own little boycott) I understand the mural consisted of some canvas paintings that were tied together with artwork painted directly on the walls - BUT that there was a deal that if the artwork wasnt to be used any more, it was to be returned to the artist??

So after we paid $20K for the mural, there was a clicker on the contract that now that we've ruined the art we might end up paying even MORE for it??

Anybody else heard whether this is a rumor or am I right?

No votes yet

Yes you heard right. On my show Tuesday morning I shared a letter from a listener who had contacted the Arts Commission about the work done for the ESM. He had been told the story and related it to me. This morning it was confirmed by both the bland and Mike Collins who was my guest. Mike also related that the city made a whopping total of $2,400 on the Flo Bots concert. Podcast available at http://www.wspd.com/pages/fredstop10.html Enjoy.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

just an fyi.. the murals were not destroyed but are actually rolled up and in storage

As upso pointed out, the murals are in storage, not underneath a layer of paint. Also, while it might be hard for The Blade's staff to grasp, there is more than one Cynthia Carlson in New York. Cynthia M. Carlson is a landscape architect. Cynthia J. Carlson is an artist with a specialty in murals.

No disrespect to Cynthia J. Carlson because I've seen some of her other work and it's excellent, but the murals decorating the Erie Street Market were but ugly. They're generic and boring and haven't made sense since the food vendors moved out of the ESM. Why should murals depicting groceries remain in a facility that hasn't sold food in years?

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"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles
Bukowski

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

Not sure who upso is since he/she doesn't use a real name so it's hard to say where the information comes from or how accurate it might be. Part of the mural was the actual paintings, part was additional work done to the wall itself. The point however is that something that $20k taxpayer dollars went for has been taken down and stored not by an expert, but by Rob Croak, and then other parts were painted over.

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

Actually, upso has identified himself before. His wife also posts here and she does use her real name as part of her identifying info (jhostetler).

I don't necessarily agree with them on every political issue, but I'm fairly confident that neither of them would intentionally try to pass off false info as fact here either. Both seem to have pretty good intentions. Not to mention that they are both pretty involved in the local art community, so I would be especially inclined to trust anything they had to say on that topic.

They both have websites under their real names advertising their art/design - I'll leave it up to them to link them again, if they wish. (I think they have linked them either here or on Toledo Talk before, but just in case my recollection is wrong I won't put anyone's private info here without their authorization.)

It's a monument to failure. It's a remnant of the idea that the Erie Street Market was going to serve as downtown's grocery store and the idea that it must be preserved so that future generations can gaze upon art that graced the walls of a failed urban revival project is ludicrous. It doesn't matter what it cost back in 1997, it is pretty much worthless today and for the foreseeable future.

"Not sure who upso is since he/she doesn't use a real name so it's hard
to say where the information comes from or how accurate it might be."

If you still want to play this "you're not a real person" game, how about reading the Blade article you referenced in your interview with Collins. But then again, that article could be yet another attempt by JRB to influence public opinion...

---------

"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles
Bukowski

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

From Today's Blade:

Mr. Collins said Ms. Carlson "provided about eight specific pieces held as an ensemble and then painted the walls to fulfill the mural."

He said the eight pieces have been placed in storage, but "the original concept is gone because it's been painted over."

Wait, reference an article in another news source that at times is mocked and ridiculed but yet serves as the basis for the very topic being discussed.

Some entity has to dig the news up for others to comment on and follow.

The irony continues....

im an active board member of the arts commission of greater toledo. sorry for being such a mysterious character! it wasnt my intention.

As an active member can you tell us what happens to them now, Will they be returned to the artist if we are unable to find an approprate site that would be good for such site appropriate art? Are they stored in a manner that protects them from the elements and environmental concerns? If they were damaged in the taking down process would the Arts Commission or the city pay to have them repaired?

Any statement I make is the opinion of me exercising my first amendment right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and is generally permitted.

They are in a climate controlled area of the ESM stored in a locked room in a manner protecting them from the elements. They are actually painted on hard panels and stored off the ground in a vertical format. The Art in Public Places Committee has the oversight of the 1% for Art Program aka the City of Toledo's public art program. The committee does not meet in July and August and will take this issue up at the Sept. 8th meeting.

There are three options they may consider.
A) Replacing the work to it's original location and having the artist come back and paint the accents directly back onto the wall.

B) Find an alternate location on property owned by the City to relocate the work to.

C) Deaccession the piece (aka formally remove the piece from the city's collection). This provides several options for resolution. They are: selling the piece at it's market value, donating the work, destroying the work or returning it to the artist.

As mandated by the City of Toledo an annual Municipal Art Plan is submitted by the Arts Commission to city council for review and and questioning and then to the Plan Commission where ACGT staff testifies on the planned expenditures and activities of this program.

Any decision made by the committee is required to pass through this approval/oversight process.

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