So what's the difference?

Downtown Toledo on a Saturday night - we have two choices:

Mudhens are at home: You'll see lots of people, and the local restaurants and bars (and when I say 'local', I mean the ones RIGHT by the stadium) will be doing a brisk business. (this accounts for 12 of the 52 Saturday nights in a year)

The other 40 saturday nights of the year: Crickets and tumbleweeds....


MAUMEE on ANY Saturday night: It's hoppin'! A trendy place to go with bars, places to eat, and shops.

Maumee has no downtown ball park, no sports arena, and no convention center - all things that the Toledo taxpayers will have to pay for - despite sometimes having voted against them.

So what's Maumee got that draws the peeps?? I could have gone with Downtown Sylvania just as easily...

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Oh please. I lived in Sylvania my entire life up until the past year (now own my home in West Toledo -- cheaper), and Sylvania does NOT have a night life, let alone anything but suburban sprawl and a feeling of disconnect.

Sylvania has nothing with the exception of Sodbuster Saloon, which consists of Ragtime Rick and a minimum age requirement of 65 and over. J & G's has good food, outside of that, you do NOT see people walking around downtown or visiting shops. Nobody say's, hey, lets go to downtown Sylvania for a good time!

Your right though Billy, the bars and restaurants RIGHT around the ball park including Legends, Home Slice, Spaghetti Warehouse, Tony Packo's, the Bronze Boar, and Fricker's are ALL doing well. I can definitely say that for Home Slice as I've had plenty of discussions with the owners and they are looking to expand their location and have said they are booming. Pizza Papali's is in the middle of renovations right now and The Blarney is also in the middle of expansion.

However, I concede when it comes to winter, these places scrape by until Spring and Summer. The hope is a new arena will help to alleviate that. The business I work for, also downtown, has expanded so quickly that we have recently put an offer on an empty building downtown -- which is to be renovated, though not related to any restaurant or consumer based business.

Oh, and in regards to Maumee having no downtown ball park or sports arena. Its' funny you say that because I bet you at least half of those visitor's coming to downtown Toledo's ball park and convention center (for concerts) are people from Sylvania and Maumee.

Has more customers than Dale's or Buster Brown's. I don't know about Sylvania because I've never had a reason to go there at night.

Meanwhile, there's several restaurants and bars in Downtown Toledo. The Blarney is a hell of a lot of fun and is always packed on the
weekends. Homeslice has a nice little bar on the second level, there's
two dance clubs that I know of downtown, and a new Mexican restaurant and bar called Hot Peppers opened in the Boody House.

IMHO, Perrysburg is the only suburb with a thriving downtown and it has the most competition. I was sure Levis Commons was going to kill Downtown Perrysburg, but it has flourished since the opening of Levis. But even Downtown Perrysburg empties out after 9PM.


"Show me a man who lives alone and has a perpetually dirty kitchen, and
five times out of nine I'll show you an exceptional man." -Charles

There's a city full of walls you can post complaints at

I can only speak for me & my husband & some people we know - but the only reason we ever went downtown was to eat in a restaurant (which was at least once or twice a week). The smoking ban ended that - we haven't eaten out in Ohio since the smoking ban. My daughter & I just went to a long fun dinner with an old friend of mine (who does not smoke) and we went to Nick & Jimmy's in Michigan (where you can smoke) - the place was packed on a Thursday night.

The Blade and other BS media said the smoking ban would not adversely affect and maybe even INCREASE patrons of these places. It never happened. Now, with an economic collapse developing, the smoking ban looks even less bright than it did before. All it has done is drive patronage elsewhere and put bars out of business.

What else can we do to shoot ourselves in the foot? I remember Russ "Six-Pack" Lemmon, former writer and anti-smoking shill for the Blade, saying the bar owners were just shedding crocodile tears over the Toledo smoking ban. How wrong he was, but he and the rest of the crowd will never admit it!

First, let me answer your question. What does Maumee have that Toledo does not? One, a large affluent customer base consolidated into a small geographic area. Alas, to have suburbs, one must also have the burb.

Second, Downtown Toledo has retracted a bit in the past year. Quite a few good places had to close-up shop. Most were around the Huron/Madison corridor and took a big hit when 5/3 went to 1 Seagate. In other words, these are direct fallout from IO moving to Pburg.

Third, There is still a LOT of people downtown on Friday and Saturday nights. They may not be doing things YOU like. They may not be frequenting bars/clubs that appeal to YOU, but there still are popular places doing good business.

Many were already mentioned. I'd add Eclipse & Spice, both on Superior, which seemed to have been helped by the Arena taking out some of their local competition.

Also, Wesley's on Adams, which is a fantastic place and has a large devoted customer base.

Pub St. George, at Adams & 14th, which has been epicenter of urban nightlife for those in their 20's for about 2 years now. That is, they've stayed trendy.

The Bronze Boar, which is packed every weekend without exception.

And, of course, the places that surround the ballpark. These places did not exist a few years ago and now they're doing a great amount of business.

Absolutely no reason to think that the Arena won't have the same impact.

Finally, I have to wonder why you put this in a "Downtown v. Suburbs" context. Seems a bit silly to make it confrontational.

If one drives the streets the city appears to be deserted.

I grew up in the metro NYC area, so when people speak of things to do and see, and enjoy, I think back to being able to go to the metro city area and do things and see things and enjoy things, all with people on the streets.

The downtown area of Toledo, is in dire need of new businesses.

The Avenue of the Arts, is mainly vacant commercial buildings, some boarded up.

There has to be something to bring people downtown and keep them there, the arena seems like a good start.

For what it's worth - I don't go to bars except rarely. The few times I can get out to a restaurant to dinner, I want to enjoy the experience (which means not leaving my companion to sit alone while I step outside to have a cig) - usually these dinners out are 1 - 2 hours or more (tip well). Since the ban, there aren't any restaurants downtown (or in toledo) that I'd bother going to. I won't 'step outside', and patios depend on good weather to dine on. . Our dining dollars are very limited anymore so I'll be damned to waste them in places that treat me as a second class citizen. Most of the places shane mentioned are bars. Not to belabor a controversial subject - but the ban was just flat out wrong. This country worked well using 'freedom to choose' . As long as the restaurant made clear it had a smoking section before entering - people had the freedom to enter, or not. This ban has been a total assault on private business owners - they are privately owned, and invited the public to enter, but the public was never required to enter. Public buildings on the other hand are those that get funds or tax help from the govt., and are places a person must enter to do a particular business (courthouses, libraries, post offices, govt buildings). No person had to enter a restaurant to do business.

This ban has worked to attempt to dictate lifestyle - one size fits all. My guess is that the anti smoker zealots weren't lining up to enter biker bars, no more than after blue collar gritty hard ass work workers were lining up to enter martini bars - or the prim church ladies standing in line to get into Carmels or the Whales' Tale. I've heard & read many bar owners say that 75 - 90 percent of their customers are smokers - the same can be said about bar & restaurant employees. But this ban was passed to suit a client those businesses saw very little of to begin with. I have fond memories of this country - pre 2000. but it no longer even resembles the country I or my parents grew up in. I watch "Mad Men" & remember how easy going this country used to be. Now it's become very anal retentive, nanny enforced, police state, for the freaking children. I am so sick of hearing 'it's for the children'. Kids who grew up pre 1970, grew up around more shs than any kid now. And yet, asthma rates were far lower back then then they are now. If there are fewer smokers now, then shouldn't that rate go down? Kids grew up getting dirty, taking chances, and yes, being around shs & trans fat. It seems there's now a generation of kids who are so restricted, protected, sterilized, prissy, soft, fearful - there are school playground rules in N.Y. that say "No running" & "no tag" (somebody will be 'it). There has never been a proven case that shs caused any disease. If a person has breathing problems, then they should just not enter places that provoke attacks - places with smoking sections, detergent & perfume aisles in stores, car exhaust, etc. This ban was a sham that was sold by bogus propaganda - propaganda that was put out before it was even studied or proven - that was all after the ban, thrown out in courts. But people are lemmings & believe anything the surgeon general or the epa or cancer society says - never mind all of them were proven wrong in court - after the fact.

when you refuse to "step outside".

Perhaps you could channel some of that 'strong-willed' energy into some positive behavior modification that is beneficial to you and your family.

Quit smoking tobacco with all it's additives before you contract the cancer.

Just a thought.

Who loves ya ?

on turning yet another topic which has nothing to do with the smoking ban...into being about the smoking ban.

Starling, I'm sorry, but you're f*cking clueless.

Don't be whoopin' on Agent Starling like that. Have a heart. Take pity on her. After all, in this smoking regard, she is, well ... clueless.

I think the by-products of burning tobacco and additives have got to her brain.

Have mercy on her.

that you can smoke at Wesley's, Easy Street, Home Slice, Pub St. George, Manhattan's, The Blarney... and those are only the places *I* know of. They all have outdoor patios. Hopping outdoor patios, at that.

The ban has done nothing but allowed for a little creativity.

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