Investigation Needed

Have you ever wondered why people do the things they do? Whatever happened to innocent until

proven guilty? I have a situation that I believe should be brought to the publics attention,

Lucas County Children Services was contacted in Feb 2008 and allegations were brought

against myself and my fiance for so called child abuse and neglect. My fiance took her

daughter to school, to inquire about a bruise on her butt ( Daughter is in a special needs

class with down syndrome). No sooner had my fiance left school and headed to work Lucas

County Children Services was contacted by the school. Lucas County Children Services sent an

investigator out to our home, at that time the investigator whose name is Alice talked with

my fiance and I and also checked my fiance's daughter. No pictures, no police, etc were

called. After numerous phone calls to Lucas County Children Services upper management on the

handling or should I say mishandling of these allegations, none of our phone calls have yet

to be returned. Approximately 2-3 weeks later Alice introduced us to Marco who is the

caseworker. In April, Marco contacted us stating that we needed to sign a case plan that

needed to be sent in the very next day giving us no time at all to talk it over amongst

ourselves. At that time, present at the meeting was myself, fiance and both our mothers.

Marco tried to quickly review the case plan. When Marco was questioned on numerous errors

about the plan, he pacified us stating that our signatures were not an admission of guilt.

In the case plan the suggestions by Lucas County Children Services were a diagnostic

assessment, parenting classes and anger management. We had no problem with doing their

suggestions but, Thou no charges or no proof have ever been brought against either one of

us, my fiance has lost her children 89 days after Lucas County Children Services was first

contacted. My fiance son who is 9 years and on the honor roll informed a counselor at school

that his father verbally, emotionally and physically abuses him. The school in turn

contacted Lucas County Children Services and the case was turned over to the same caseworker

that is handling ours. Seems like a conflict of interest wouldn't you say? My fiance's son

talked with Marco and told him that he was never abused or neglected nor was his sister by

myself or fiance. Yet the Lucas County Juvenile Courts saw fit to remove the children from

our home and place them with their father. Lucas County Children Services were well aware of

the situation concerning my fiance's son at the time of the hearing and it was never brought

up. This is also the same Lucas County Children Services that took my children and gave

temporary custody to there father who should have been investigated by Erie County Children

Services where the father resides. I have also been told to leave the home and to complete

the case plan with no guarantee that I will ever be allowed back in the home. There is so

much more to tell on this that I would appreciate an interview with one of your

investigative reporters. I hope & pray someone there understands our dilemma & would be willing to help not only us but anyone else that may be going thru the same situation.

No votes yet

and I mean anyone!

Hire a lawyer.

Before you do anything, you hire a lawyer.

Anytime you deal with ANY government entity, you hire a lawyer.

Trust nobody except your lawyer and you sic your lawyer upon them.

Good luck, sir.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

It applies to criminal law. When you are arrested, charged, indicted and go to trial you are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Have you been charged with a crime?

My fiancé took her daughter to school, to inquire about a bruise on her butt

Do you mean to say that your fiancé noted a bruise on her daughter's buttocks, and not knowing how her daughter was injured accused the school of either injuring the girl deliberately, or, through neglect, allowing the girl to come to harm? Did the mother begin by asking the school how the child came to harm?

In April, Marco contacted us stating that we needed to sign a case plan that needed to be sent in the very next day giving us no time at all to talk it over amongst ourselves.

Of course he did. Marco is not here to help you or your children. What ever gave you the idea that your welfare or your children's welfare appeared anywhere on Marco's list of priorities?

At that time, present at the meeting was myself, fiancé and both our mothers. Marco tried to quickly review the case plan. When Marco was questioned on numerous errors about the plan, he pacified us stating that our signatures were not an admission of guilt.

I really hope you didn't sign anything, but I'm betting you did.

In the case plan the suggestions by Lucas County Children Services were a diagnostic assessment, parenting classes and anger management. We had no problem with doing their suggestions

Stop right there. You should have had major problems with 'doing their suggestions'. Allow me to present the following scenario: You are a kind and gentle person. You don't hit people, and in fact the thought of striking anyone in anger is repellent to you. Violence and fighting sicken you, literally. One day at work, a co-worker accuses you of abhorrent, abusive behavior. Your boss recommends anger management. Your acceptance of your boss's judgment and subsequent attendance of an anger management class is a tacit admission of guilt; in other words, if you aren't guilty of abusing a co-worker, why wouldn't you object to the false accusation and refuse to attend a class you have no need for?

my fiancé has lost her children 89 days after Lucas County Children Services was first contacted.

I'm sorry to hear that. Repeating and emphasizing BrianInVeroFL's excellent advice, hire an attorney. I have actually had my attorney along with me while I was transferring the title to a car, and we got into an argument with a snotty, self-important little man over a point of State law. It was eventually cleared, but the small man refused to acknowledge his mistake or apologize for his rude behavior. Believe me, I know just how frustrating bureaucrats can be.

In the future, never talk to the government about anything, anywhere, without your attorney. This is especially true of the police, even if you're the victim of a crime call your attorney. Think about this: This Marco person handles many cases like yours every day. He knows how to make life miserable for you, how to split your family up, how to wage the bureaucratic war successfully. He's done it day in, day out for years. You've never done it, and you're emotionally involved.

Get a lawyer, and when you do, let your lawyer handle everything. Do not get all bent out of shape and lose your temper in front of people. Shut up, sit quietly and let the attorney handle it.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack

they haven't charged me with anything!

A few thoughts that came to mind as a 13-year foster parent with LCCS. You might not like what I have to say, but I think there are two sides to every story, and I've seen a heck of a lot more problem parents than problem caseworkers.

Maybe you are the exception. Agencies have erred in the past, and they will certainly err in the future.

1. There are two sure ways for children to be removed from their home - the belief that abuse and/or neglect will continue if children are left there, or a parent who refuses to work the case plan, leading the agency to believe neglect and/or abuse will occur. You mentioned that the case plan said you had to move out - did you? If not, then you can thank yourself for the children being removed, because this is a non-negotiable item with LCCS if they believe you to be the source of abuse.

2. A "bruise on the butt" is kind of vague - was this a one-inch surface bruise, or was this a bruise in the shape of, oh, a garden rake or belt buckle? Also, how exactly did the school learn about this "bruise on the butt"? I've never heard of a child being removed for a small bruise, but you'd be amazed (or maybe not) at the insane things people hit their kids with.

3. If you know of problems with the birth father, you are within your rights to call Erie County to let them know about possible abuse.

4. "Conflict of inerest"? Hardly - it makes perfect sense for the same investigators and caseworkers to handle both children. This is akin to a police detective investigating related crimes and victims - there is much less time spent bringing another investigator or caseworker up to speed. Don't like it? Petition the state to increase the amount of money it spends on child welfare. Oh, wait, I forgot - this is a state that routinely underfunds agencies that are supposed to protect children. Silly me!

5. Re: "proof" - the standards are different for criminal and child protection cases. If there is sufficient evidence of a crime, then police and the prosecutors are involved. LCCS only forwards extreme negligence and abuse cases to the prosecutors, because it would not benefit anyone - especially the child - to prosecute every parent or live-in lover who got mad and whacked a kid, or who exercised poor judgment. However, when a child is removed, there is a judicial process that must be followed, and I suggest that you retain an attorney to represent you in this process. Caseworkers can remove a child before a hearing is held if there is reasonable belief that the child is in danger, but ultimately these matters get heard in court.

6. Is there also an ongoing custody dispute with the birth father that might be behind this?

In April, Marco contacted us stating that we needed to sign a case plan that needed to be sent in the very next day giving us no time at all to talk it over amongst ourselves.

When Marco was questioned on numerous errors about the plan, he pacified us stating that our signatures were not an admission of guilt.

If you'd actually read the plan and found numerous errors in it then why on Earth did you sign them?
I mean, I can imagine how upsetting and scary being confronted by child services is. I've heard plenty of horror stories and we've all read how often they've screwed up taking kids from good parents and handing them back to bad parents who end up killing them (remember that poor baby who died when Mom's boyfriend used him as a plunger in the toilet after he wet himself?) but I sure as hell wouldn't have signed anything they gave me, especially if I had found numerous errors in it.


Get a lawyer, and get one fast. I hope that you can undo the damage that has already been done.

Good luck.


I don't sign any type of document for situation without being certain that I understand what I'm signing and that its accurate. When it comes to my kids, I *definitely* wouldn't agree to sign anything if I saw errors in it.

I hope that things work out for the best for your fiance's children, but I do agree with historymike that it sounds like there may be a little more to the story.

Also agree with the suggestions that your fiance get a lawyer ASAP.

36 years, either as a person who has adopted children or as an advocate for my adopted children and others who have come to me for advice, I understand your situation. When you are presented with a case plan that you had no input in and they tell you to sign then that is what you do, you sign thinking that they have your interest in mind. THEY DON"T!

After fighting lccs for nine months to gain custody of a family baby I saw a lot of conflict of interests. And yes, giving the same caseworker to a family that already removed children or been involved with the family is a conflict of interest.

LCCS is not concerned with the truth. They are only concerned with keeping their numbers up so that they can keep getting federal dollars to fund their machine. A machine whose ultimate purpose destroys children and families.

Unless you get more people involved who are not afraid to fight them they will continue with their actions.

As far as getting an attorney, it is going to be hard to do in Toledo as there are too many incestuous relationship going on in the child welfare system as it operates in Toledo. The child welfare attorneys, the CASA workers, the caseworkers , the GALs, the court appointed attorneys, magistrates and judges are all inter-related and wash each others backs. I could go on, so be very careful who you get when picking an attorney. I do know of one who helped me out. If you want the name, e-mail me. I can also tell you the ones who are incestuously involved.

As far as getting an investigative reporter, I tried that 15 years ago. Toledo is structured as such that it is hard to accomplish anything when it comes to children's and families' rights because of the inter-relatedness of all of the issues. The school system is the main reporter to LCCS for reporting abuse. A school board member sits on the LCCS board of directors. Why is that ? Think about it. It is a vicious circle formed to keep people like Marco keeping a job and destroying families.

the two sides are you against us. Us are the families of the children and you are the people making money off the children. Us is not very strong just mommies and daddies and grandparents and you are top heavy in the strong department. Judges, Casa workers, caseworkers, foster parents, magistrates, as a matter of fact LCCS has grown tremendously since I first adopted in 1973 but the mentality has stayed the same, everybody knows what is best for the child including complete strangers, people who have no biological, genetic or bonded connection to the child.


Purnhrt, that is one of the most poorly-informed statements I have ever read.

Do you call a daily stipend of $12 "making money" on a child? That was the basic rate for foster children the last time I checked. Try buying food, toiletries, and everything a child needs on that amount, and see how much is left over. Now - try treating all of the children in your house the same, buying all of them nice clothes and toys, and see how much you wind up in the red. We never "made money" as foster parents, and we never got into foster parenting as a business.

Now, for children with severe medical needs or severe behavioral problems, there are higher stipends, but these are children who require 24-hour care. Even at the higher stipend rates ($25 a day and higher) you have to consider that such a parent cannot work a regular job and still provide the medical care and supervision such children need.

Sure - there are a few idiots who try to game the system and maximize their revenue, but the same can be said for every other person or business who does business with the state. If you personally know of such people, or know of children being denied their basic needs, then report them. Otherwise, quit assuming that every foster parent is some sort of financial leech.

BTW - we adopted three of the children we fostered. Now, if we were out to "make money," we would have continued fostering, because the state adoption subsidy is only about $200 a month. Try feeding, clothing, and taking care of the bills associated with a child on THAT paltry amount.

It's about love, Purnhrt. I trust that you understand this concept.

I fail to understand your mean-spirited attitude toward foster parents, who do the hard work with very little thanks and very little reward, except for the satisfaction of doing the right thing.

You owe every foster parent an apology for your thoughtless remarks.

my having adopted children from LCCS. Well each of those children had a "foster" parent.
So I know about foster parents, the good, the bad and the ugly.

You fail to tell the truth about the $12.00 a day "stipend." Also there is a subsidy check available for adopted special needs children I don't know if your "adopted" children qualified or not. But it is available and it is much more than $200.00 a month. When I adopted my last set of children 15 years ago the subsidy was $325.00 per month per child. And it went up as the child aged. Some "foster" parents also receive the child's social security money.

Let's just say you get the basic "stipend" for foster care for two children. You would receive the stipend, clothing vouchers, WIC depending on age of child, baby sitting fees and any other fee that the foster parent feels they need, such as membership to the Y, the Zoo, COSI (when it was available).

But that is not what this thread is about. It is about letting the public know what is going on in this family. So don't hijack it with how great the "foster" care system is for kids and what a great job "foster" parents do.

Have you ever read this man's blog and seen how devoted he is to all the foster children that have come under his family's care over the years?

I'm sure there are people who are out to make money off the system, purnhrt, but this is hardly an example of such. If anything, it's indicative of how the system works at it's best.

I, too, am waiting for an him and others who open their hearts and their homes to children in need.

Umm - you called me and other foster parents "shameful." If anyone is hijacking the thread, it was you.

Clearing up other misconceptions on your part:

1. WIC only applies to famlies who qualify. Mine never has.
2. None of my children were diagnosed as special needs, but even with those subsidies, adoptive parents receive far less than foster parents. People who are in it for the money do not go into adoption.
3. Never had a dime of babysitting fees, and the only babysitting foster parents get is when another foster parent watches their children.
4. I have never heard of free Y or Zoo memberships for foster families, though the fees of foster children can be paid for things like Boys and Girls Club. The state never paid for anything for my birth and adoptive children.
5. There is no Social Security money for foster children. Children with disabilities who qualify for SSI typically do so at 18, when they are adults. I have never seen a child in the system who came with "extra" money like that, and my wife and I have fostered over 40 children in 13 years.
6. Clothing vochures are based on an inventory performed by caseworkers. This has been done for at least 9 years now, and there are no set amounts. If a child has plenty of clothes that fit, they get nothing extra. The county is quite frugal when it comes to vouchers, and the days of "automatic" vouchers are long in the past. Besides, the vouchers are only good at certain stores, like Value City, so it isn't as if the kid is getting $100 jeans or $200 tennis shoes.
7. Our state subsidies never went up, and they were quite small. Of course, some of this is based upon family income and the child's needs, so perhaps your situation was different. However, I have never heard of a case where adoption was more financially lucrative than fostering, plus with adoption the child is yours for life. Adopted children do not "age out," and if they have to live with you until 25 or 30, then you as a parent bear this just like you would with another child.

And again - either apologize to foster parents for calling them "shameless," or continue to look like a mean-spirited person. It's your choice - you are the one making the cruel comment.

It took awhile, but I found the post I knew was out there somewhere in cybersphere:

This strike you as someone who is in it for the money?

Yes, the thread got off-track from the originial post, and again, I have no doubt there exists those who foster for the coin, but your blatantly foolish statements need to be called out for the ignorant nonsense that they are.

for anything I said because all is true, maybe you are mistaken. Your situation may be different. If I have time next week I will start a thread with the "foster" children giving their take on their situations. Trust me it won't be nice. But it will be true!

There were times I gave you the benefit of the doubt when other posters on here and TT berated you and your intent regarding various topics, but you know, maybe they were right after all.

What you don't know could fill a book.

thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. It really helped out a lot. :=)

HistoryMike, having read your blog and general contributions on the Internet, I've concluded that you're a good man and possess many admirable traits. Thank you for taking in children and animals. Your efforts make the world a better place for everyone.

There is nothing I can tell you about Purnhrt that you probably aren't aware of or haven't guessed. Purnhrt hates, and hate makes her angry. She wakes up each morning hating the world for its cruelty and injustice. She spends most of her day in bursts of anger at people who don't conform to her expectations. She can't forgive. She won't apologize to you or anyone else for the same reasons Monica Conyers will never apologize Kenneth Cockrell: Pride, wrath, ignorance and probably a little envy. Purnhrt never sees herself doing anything wrong. There will always be a reason for her anger; it will always be someone else's fault.

So you and the people like you who are able care for homeless children and pets receive undeserved castigation instead of praise and affirmation. Allow me to redress this injustice by tendering my most sincere thanks for your time, effort and hard work.

Thank you. You make life a lot better for the rest of us.

Mad Jack
Mad Jack's Shack


Nicely stated and I could not agree more with EVERY word! Mike is the kind of man we need to klone. Kind people need to be recognized for their dedication to our community. Mike you are one!

"It takes a village to raise a child!"

Although I am more of a reader than commenter, I say "DITTO" to what MadJack said.

You, HistoryMike, are a good man. Your wife is lucky:)

as to not repeat, yet agree wholeheartedly, thanks Mike.

for your patience, compassion and loyalty.

and thanks MadJack for saying what many of us are thinking when we read about Mike's dedication to mankind, it's just not so eloquently put.

Appreciate the opportunity.

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