Toledo Board of Education approves fact finder report 4 to 1

The Toledo Board of Education voted 4 to 1 early this morning after 1.5 hours in executive session. Darlene Fisher stated she supported teachers and the economic settlement based upon assurances from the Treasurer that money was available and that the budget would remain balanced through the 2010 school year - the length of the contract is two years.

However, she could not accept the language she reviewed as it would not allow the district to move forward. No details were divulged but we will make an open records request to obtain the changes in the contract, if any, and determine if critical issues were discussed and resolved.

Jack Ford claims that TPS did get some management rights back, but I am highly skeptical. We will see.

Go to TPSINFO.COM to listen to the audio of the board meeting and what Fisher, Steel, Vasquez and Ford have to say.

No votes yet

Also available for download is the fact finder report. I am disappointed that the Board of Education did not release the report even though the TFT had leaked the report and shared it with the media. It always seems that the taxpayers who pay the bills are the last to know and have no ability to weigh in on the decision with their elected Board. Board members always say they can't do it because of the sensitivity of negotiations even after it was leaked by the other party. I personally believe they don't want the voters to weigh in and tell them what they really think - easier to give in to the union involved and then ask for voter forgiveness after as well as hope for voter forgetfulness. The Blade had the whole report on the Saturday after the TFT meeting. Unfair labor practice - no because the Board will not make a big deal about it. So why not release it to the public before the vote? Hard for the TFT to claim an unfair labor practice when they released it first.

Steve,
Here you go again. Once the news media has the report any taxpayer can access the report via the media. You purposely change the focus of the issue.
TPS can now move forward with a teaching staff that feels appreciated instead of taken for granted. This is their first new contract since 2001! I guess that counts for nothing to you.
TPS will still be behind the salary schedules of most other urban districts in Ohio and most area school districts when they have to replace me, my wife, and other experienced teachers in coming years. Do you have a plan to attract the best and the brightest into the teaching profession and into TPS?
The late billionaire industrialist, Armand Hammer, said it best. In the 1920s, when Hammer was asked by Lenin to build a successful pencil factory because Lenin wanted the mostly illiterate Russians to have writing utensils, Hammer was at a loss. He didn't know how to make a good pencil. So, he went to Germany and hired people at double their salary in Germany, to go to Russia. Many years later, Nikita Khrushchev told Hammer that he had learned to write with a "Hammer" pencil. In a similar fashion, when Hammer first entered the oil business, he had no expertise in that field. He hired the best geologists and drilling crews from established oil companies by paying them significantly more money. In Armand Hammer's words, "You pay peanuts; you get monkeys." Steve, I guess that you want Curious George to take my job when I retire!

To all the TPS teachers................."ooooo happy days!" As a parent, I am so happy for all of you who deserve this. Dale, you are appreciated!!!!!!!!!

I could not be paid enough to deal with all the diverse needs of the students in TPS AND TEACH! I love children and all my kids at the schools I volunteer for. However, I am always grateful I can walk out those doors anytime!

I realize that you represent a large number of Toledoans who appreciate what TPS teachers do. As a volunteer, you see the work first hand. So many of our detractors never enter a TPS school building, or haven't been in one for years or decades!
Thanks you for your consistent support!

that over the years I have been in numerous TPS schools both for my own children and where I have been invited or shown an interest and asked to visit. About a year and a half ago I spent the morning in a classroom at Keyser at the invitation of the teacher. I had a great time with the kids. I worked with them on their classwork, read with them in small groups, participated in the lessons and generally had a great time.

I regularly attend TPS meetings at various schools and in the last year have been in schools on the east, west and north sides of Toledo. I frequently take time to visit with teachers and administrators. At a school board debate last year at DeVeaux I sat with a number of students. During and after the debate we exchanged comments and I blogged about my experience over at Glass City as Lisa Renee covered the event and posted a transcript. I was very impressed! - link - http://glasscityjungle.com/wordpress/?p=2106#comments

I always enjoy working and talking with young people. We get along exceptionally well because they appreciate the interest and attention, I treat them with respect and I take their concerns seriously. I love interacting with children of all ages. I could tell you stories.

So when all of us get involved with these debates and posts, it is appropriate to keep in mind that there is more to all of us than what we read in these posts.

"So when all of us get involved with these debates and posts, it is appropriate to keep in mind that there is more to all of us than what we read in these posts."

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!
I am also glad to hear you take this time to give our students.

No, the citizens should not need to go through the media in 2008. It would only take 30 seconds to post that document on the Web site, but not. Many of our institutions are in the 1950s still and there is no excuse this is not much easier available.

TPS has the second largest amount of money per student, yet you say they are paid bad. How can this be? That must mean there is a bunch of waste going on and this does nothing to stem that waste.

"TPS has the second highest amount of money per student" compared to whom? In the area? In the state? In the nation?
Urban districts spend more per pupil because they have more students with special needs. By both state and federal law, they must provide more an enormous amount of services to a tiny number of students, some of whom would have been institutionalized a generation ago. I have no problem with TPS providing these services. I do have a problem with people like you, Chris, implying that urban schools waste more money than suburban schools or non-public schools who have a small fraction of these very expensive, severely challenged students. Percentage-wise, there's just as much waste in budgets in suburban districts and in non-public budgets as well. There's not a central administrator alive who does not have her/his "special" projects (s)he funds!
Statistics show that, when one factors out special ed. student costs and inflation, most school districts spend about the same per pupil on regular ed. students or LESS than they did fifty! years ago!
Is there waste? Oh, yes! TPS has far too many central administrators, for one thing. That's why I hoped the former military officer would be named Superintendent. The military understand clear line and staff responsibilities. This is a foreign concept to TPS central administrators. TPS central administrators have too many overlapping responsibilities. They spend far too much time meeting with each other, and are always afraid to take actions which might "step on someone else's toes".
There is no budget that exists that cannot be trimmed without hurting the mission of the organization. "Zero-based" budgeting should be explored as another option.
I am a treasurer. I was in business for 15 years before I became a teacher. You won't ever find me supporting wasteful spending.

it is Northwest Ohio. You can see the statistics on the Web site. It is also interesting that you say spending is down, but then you say they have too many administrators. That is sort of contradictory.

Also, do you remember when TPS found 20 million dollars last year? How do you explain that if they were so poor? If you drank the cool-aid just over two years ago, then you would believe they were in a poor situation, but a new treasurer with some new processes find 20 million. One of the reasons for that was because there were positions left unfilled and probably on purpose. How can you say that you trust their spending habits? Past history proves it can't be done. There is some faith in the current numbers, but once bitten, twice shy.

I used to be like you Dale, but then when I actually started to look at the numbers, and see what they were saying, I began asking questions and did not like the answers. I think more in the community should ask questions, because it is our school district.

If you read my posts on a previous thread with Steve, I accuse Steve of putting too much faith in the TPS treasurer's office. I am consistently critical of TPS's projected severe deficits that turn miraculously into growing surpluses every fiscal year! Also read my other posts on this thread, please. We are in agreement I believe The TPS Treasurer is either duplicatous or incompetent.
As far as comparing TPS spending with other school distiricts in Northwest Ohio, see my other comments in this thread.

Dale,

I have not put faith in the TPS treasurer!

On a previous thread I discussed how forecasts are just forecasts and how they can change and the problems inherent in making projections. I have obviously questioned this myself considering my past posts and the information included last March when I opposed the levy. In fact, I am about ready to do it again. But I'm sure you will find a way to either disagree with me or say I changed my position.

If one is to take your remarks as factual, then my opposition to the levy based upon the need for the money projected in the forecasts and how the forecast have changed has been justified since you constantly say there are surpluses.

You can't have it both ways. Did TPS need a renewal of the property tax levy in March?

As I pointed out to Steve, I do not make policy for TFT, not to mention TPS.

Dale, while you make some valid points, it is not hard to notice the hypocrisy of your comments. You start by saying I changed the focus. Yet it is obvious that you changed the focus of this post - for what reason?. My point was that taxpayers should have input into what they can afford and how teachers should be compensated. The other thing that is of major concern is why TPS would not release these documents when you said anyone can get access so what is the problem? You conveniently failed to address my point. Why did they just not release the report so it was easily available to all - say on their web site?

Now moving to your reality, I have consistently said that teachers should be well compensated for their efforts regardless of how you wish to spin it. The issue is what Toledo can afford. Sounds like what you want TPS to do is pull an "Armand Hammer" and scour the country to replace, you maybe, by paying double the salary. Are you ready for the competition?

Enjoy your holiday weekend!

Steve...you should know about hypocrisy. On one hand you "wring your hands" about TPS affording this tiny raise for teachers. On the other hand you're ready to pay double to teachers to replace me? Nice debating point...NOT reality.
I've pointed out before that I was in a small business with my father for fifteen years before I started teaching. Competition doesn't faze me one bit!
Because TPS has the most challenging entry year program for teachers in America, because TPS has a career ladder in place for those who excel in the classroom and want to be further challenged, TPS has the best possible teaching staff available in the current job market at depressed comparative salaries. Increasing salaries would definitely give TPS a wider and deeper field of candidates to teach in Toledo, however.
Double the salaries! Bring on the competition! I love it! The real winners would be the students in TPS who would, in the long run, receive better instruction. And the taxpayers in Toledo would have a greater return on their investment as more students would leave high school better prepared for the modern workforce and/or post-secondary education. How sad it is that both you and I know that this is a totally unrealistic scenario. We'll get Curious George before this happens!

Do you read for comprehension? Or do you read wishfully for the meaning you want to find?

From your post:

On one hand you "wring your hands" about TPS affording this tiny raise for teachers. On the other hand you're ready to pay double to teachers to replace me? Nice debating point...NOT reality.

I never said I would pay teachers double - just re-read the comment posted. You in fact suggested teachers should be paid double.

From your post:

The late billionaire industrialist, Armand Hammer, said it best. In the 1920s, when Hammer was asked by Lenin to build a successful pencil factory because Lenin wanted the mostly illiterate Russians to have writing utensils, Hammer was at a loss. He didn't know how to make a good pencil. So, he went to Germany and hired people at double their salary in Germany, to go to Russia. Many years later, Nikita Khrushchev told Hammer that he had learned to write with a "Hammer" pencil. In a similar fashion, when Hammer first entered the oil business, he had no expertise in that field. He hired the best geologists and drilling crews from established oil companies by paying them significantly more money. In Armand Hammer's words, "You pay peanuts; you get monkeys."

From my post:

Sounds like what you want TPS to do is pull an "Armand Hammer" and scour the country to replace, you maybe, by paying double the salary. Are you ready for the competition?

So where did I say that teachers should be paid double? Or is this once again you changing the meaning to suit your purpose?

I said, I have consistently said that teachers should be well compensated for their efforts regardless of how you wish to spin it. However, I did not discuss whether the current compensation is high, low or just right.

I restate what I said in a previous post about how you construct your posts, You twist meanings, interpret comments any way your imagination suits you, inaccurately paraphrase, ......

I'll let those reading this and other threads make their own minds up as to whether I said most of what you continue to credit to me. And by the way, I continue to challenge you to find the proof (how about pointing us the the sources) that validates your comments about my arguments. All you ever do is say I said this or that. Point us to the actual comments - based upon the amount of material that exists in written and verbal form (television and radio interviews) you should have little trouble finding such comments if they exist. But the simple truth is that there is no proof to support your fabrications.

If we were to pay teachers double it would cost Toledo taxpayers about $100 million dollars or about $18 million more than Toledoans pay in property taxes currently - that would be a whopping 30+ mill tax levy. As to your claim that Toledo would have a greater return on their investment, that is an interesting claim and your return would simply be :...would have a greater return on their investment as more students would leave high school better prepared for the modern workforce and/or post-secondary education." A return on investment generally is measured in economic terms. Simply sending more kids to college would not necessarily result in a larger economic base with more local jobs and the consequent collection of greater tax revenue.

Steve,
I'm sure that for a long time after Chris established this site you, he, Twila, and others posted what you wanted without much challenge. You just can't stand being called to task for what you write.
When you wrote to me, "sounds like you want TPS to pull an Armand Hammer and scour the country to replace, you maybe. Are you ready for the competition?" I took that as a challenge of my ability to compete. I pointed out that I welcomed competition of that type, but that such an increase was unrealistic. Erroneously, you make it seem as though I'm pushing for such an increase! Who's "twisting meanings and interpreting comments" to meet their arguments, Steve? We'll let the readers decide.
Your last point is most telling. Apparently, you're conceding the point that a higher paid cadre of teachers would lead to overall improvement in the quality of the education TPS children would receive. If you were truly concerned with improving the quality of education in TPS, you would have written something like...It's just too bad that we can't afford to pay enough more to teachers so that TPS students could receive the best possible instruction. Instead you wrote, "Simply sending more kids to college would not necessarily result in a larger economic base with more local jobs and the consequent collection of greater tax revenue." With that line of perverse logic, would you have TPS cut teacher's salaries significantly, have lower quality instruction, and save the taxpayers money in the short run, since there would be no hard evidence that sending LESS "kids to college would necessarily result in a [smaller] economic base with [less] local jobs and the consequent collection of [lower] tax revenue"? Following your logic to its logical conclusion, why educate children at all?
If, on the other hand, TPS does a better job of educating its children, they will have a better feeling about Toledo and are more likely to want to spend their adult lives here. And, if Toledo becomes known as a place where children get an outstanding education, high tech businesses will gravitate here. Do your children live in Toledo? My son lives in San Francisco and my daughter lives in Swanton Township. Neither stayed in Sylvania even though Sylvania schools are ranked highly by any measure. Sometimes we have to do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do. Does everything have to "pay off" economically for it to have value? There are no guarantees in life, Steve. Grow up, already!
Other industrialized nations see education as a national priority, not a local option. As we Americans haggle over the priorities of funding education for the masses, the Chinese, the Japanese, the South Koreans, the Indians (in India) and most of the Europeans have no controversy at all. They have learned to spend whatever is necessary to properly educate their populations for the modern world. And their teachers are treated with utmost respect.
I met a retired physician who was born and raised in China. When he went back home, he visited the graves of his ancestors and those of his teachers. Get the message?

Dale, I'll let those reading this and the rest of your comments made in exchanges with me determine who does means what...

As to the comment that several of us have had this site to ourselves without challenge should someone have a different point of view, you unfortunately have not been here from the beginning.

Enjoy your world. I'm perfectly grounded and have received several emails and calls about this exchange and others where you have been involved. Oh, and I have heard from those in the media you have written to about an interview with me or an article I have written. Some very interesting comments and I'll leave it at that.

I won't stop posting information on this site or elsewhere even though I know you will be waiting to strike for I'm guessing you will be back next time to take my comments or posts out of context, extend logic in a fallacious manner, twist the meaning to your own end, inaccurately paraphrase whatever I say, and attribute fabricated comments to me. Oh, and you will say I said something but never actually provide the proof with an actual quote, reference or link. Apparently you can't find something or by now you would have accepted my challenge and posted it.

And now it is time for you to taunt me once again because there is no need to debate further with you and my time is better spent. Cheers!

I get really sick and tired of hearing about "urban school" and urban student's with challenges, you say, ****“Urban districts spend more per pupil because they have more students with special needs. By both state and federal law, they must provide more an enormous amount of services to a tiny number of students, some of whom would have been institutionalized a generation ago.***** A generation ago a lot of things were different, there were more black teachers, teachers lived in the communities in which they taught, students at Scott were actually taught things like calculus, German, trigonometry, chemistry. Students were actually graduating.

I know some of the challenges faced by the "urban student" is trying to connect with a teacher who does not like them. As far as urban districts having more special needs students, that is simply not true. What is true is that suburban district's teachers are more tolerant of the students that they reach because the teachers reflect the students. In "urban districts" teachers do not reflect the students that they teach, therefore they are very intolerant of the students who do not reflect them in looks, attitudes, life experiences or culture..

Before I get started let me unequivocally state that the MOU should have been honored. It does not matter to me how much teachers make but I do think that they make what is considered good money for the work that they do. If GM put out a car like TPS puts out students there would be no raise EVER until the climate changed.

Urban children and suburban children face some of the same challenges in today’s society. In Toledo’s “urban schools” there are far too many teachers who don’t care about the students because they don’t respect them, their parents or their community. They don’t have a vested interest in Toledo therefore they don’t feel that they need to invest in the students that they teach.

For instance last week I was in Old Orchard school and a young male black student was sitting in the office. The secretary told him to go to class and the student said “the teacher doesn’t want me in her class.” The secretary pooh-poohed him (because parents were in the office) and said I’ll take you to your class. They both left and within a few minutes they were both back. It was 9:00 in the morning. There is no telling what the story is behind that scenario but I bet that this student’s parents were not called to let them know that this student was not allowed to go to class. Where did he spend the rest of the day?

If a school’s mission is to educate the students, why are teachers not allowing students into the classroom? Why are teachers not giving students work to do when they are in BIC, why are students who are suspended or expelled not allowed to complete school work while out? Why are teachers more bent on failing students then teaching them?

You state,***Steve,
I'm sure that for a long time after Chris established this site you, he, Twila, and others posted what you wanted without much challenge.*** Wrong you are. There have always been challenges to my postings. So are you and Sandy the posters hired to do the challenging? Have you been promised something in return for “challenging” on this site? I notice Sandy disappeared for a minute and has come back a kinder and gentler poster. :=) Maybe she had some training??

Question for you, I think I read that you are retiring soon, are you going to be a part of the army of retired people coming back to TPS to double dip, either as a sub or in some other capacity? Probably so. There is an old African Proverb that states, “Don’t call the forest that feeds you a jungle.” Do you get the message?

I will not comment about your "example" of the student. I was not there, and you admit that you don't know the whole story.
As for my retirement, I have not set a date. This is my 32nd year in TPS. I was in the private sector for 15 years prior to teaching. I started working at age 14, part time during the school year, and full time in the summers. Some summers I worked two jobs. I still enjoy teaching my students, so I'm not "counting the days" by any means.
Respecting salaries, my concern is that TPS have a competitive salary schedule so that I will be replaced with someone capable of doing an effective job of teaching Toledo's students. A more competitive salary schedule would also lead to more minority teachers in TPS. Now, minority teaching graduates have many choices in other urban districts, both near and far, that simply pay more money. Also, minority college graduates -- properly -- have had more avenues of professional employment opened to them than they did a generation ago. TPS is losing one accomplished African-American educator, who has been both a successful teacher and a successful administrator. He is going to be a college instructor! Our loss!
I am not planning to rehire into TPS after I retire. I want to open up a position for someone else. I do not support the rehiring of retirees unless it is in an area of need.
Twila, over the years you have said and written many times that TPS teachers care less than do other teachers. These statements are very hurtful. But to say that the main reason why TPS has more students of special needs than do suburban districts is because TPS teachers care less than do suburban teachers is ludicrous on its face. I do not know of an urban school district in the nation whose statistics on special needs students are markedly different. Most teachers in all schools care greatly about their students. That is why TPS teachers are so upset with your negativity regarding them.

Twila: I am not sure even how to respond, but that one made me laugh. I promise you this though, no one in TPS tells me what to say or do. I am too an advocate, we just see and handle issues differently.
I would not take a job in TPS for that reason. If I want to tell an administrator that they are wrong, I do! If I want to yell at one, I do and I have.

I am really a nice person, but we have too many differences in how we see things, for you to see that quality in me. I care about ALL kids. However, living for some time in the Libbey feeder area has opened my heart to many more. The challenges and needs are very different.

TPS graduates many successful students every year! Look at the Libbey Basketball team alone. Does TPS reach all students.? Well you cannot teach a young adult if they are not willing, it also requires family morales and support, which many do not have. We cannot completely place all the blame on TPS.

As far as the young man you state in the office at Old Orchard...........do you realize that many of our students do not have working phones Or parents do not notify the school when it is changed and schools cannot reach a parent? I cannot tell you the number of children I see that are sick, need a change of clothing or misbehaving and we have no working phone number for students. When the community partners run to do a home visit, the house is empty. I am saying this because TPS has many challenges in of its self. The child was probably removed for behavior. A teacher cannot teach 23 other students because of this one troubled individual. Do you want the other 23 to fall behind because of this one?

Try not to pick out all the negative in our schools. Do me a favor and list 20 positive things in our schools!!!!

team at Libbey be a significant number of students to graduate when there are 9 or 10 High schools? Scott, Libbey, Start, Woodward, Rogers, TTA, Phoenix, Polly Fox, Waite, and Bowsher. I don't think I have forgotten a high school. Well, there is also Early College.

You said. ****TPS graduates many successful students every year! Look at the Libbey Basketball team alone.****

How many seniors are on a basketball team? It is also my understanding that one of the basketball players on Libbey's team is not going to graduate because he did not pass the OGT. Is that true?

Sandy, I don't owe you any favors. If I recall and if I go back a few months on this site you were telling lies on me.

Twila, you are correct, you owe me nothing and I owe you nothing. I was trying to make you see a larger picture of the problem ... society! TPS has a lot to offer. Does it continually need to improve to be competitive? No doubt. Nevertheless, I try to see good in people, places and things rather than all negative. Life is TOO short to consume my life around all that negative. Negative energy is contagious too, so what I feel, my children feel. I do not that.

I wanted you to try to see some positive

Sandy is identifying a problem negative? Is identifying a problem and providing a suggestion or recommendation negative?

If we don't identify and address problems at TPS or for that matter in any public entity, and we can't blame it all on society as TPS still needs to be successful in spite of the environment (they must adapt), then how does TPS become successful?

I completely agree with you. However, I think your voice would be heard better if it were not always negative. If you take the time to point out positive issues and events, you may be more likey to have your concerns heard, rather than always being surrounded by negativity. This is my way of handling situations. Todate, I have not had a situation resolved or look at by administration or the BOE.

I am an advocate of change too. I am trying to bring the Health education requirment to ALL students upon graduation, referring to the students in special education classes that have NEVER had a full semester of health in accordance to ODE graduation requirements (as they receive adaptive PE to meet the rquirements). I advocate for change at the state level in No Child Left Behind and for the requirements of Speech Pathologist. I advcate for parents across the district in special education. I have had many issues happen to my own son Tyler too. I call, e-mail and address until resolved. I also have a name out there, just like you. However, I look at all the positive changes as well. I am not saying to identify a problem is negative, but stop and smell the roses sometimes!

that need real changes and I can show you a whole host of issues brought up and not addressed. One has been this building program and I have made numerous recommendations that if followed would have avoided much of this disaster.

Truth is the district has appropriated many of my ideas, implemented many of them badly (same goes for people like Cheryl Catlin) and then gives us no credit but calls us negative and people such as yourself look no further than what they say. That is real hypocrisy and some of you buy it without looking any further.

I have discussed positive items (there are few of them frankly) but the media stresses the negative and when you are in the public eye challenging the district it is not my responsibility to talk about what is positive.

I could go on but at least we now know that identifying a problem and recommending solutions is not negative.

Steve: "Truth is the district has appropriated many of my ideas, implemented many of them badly (same goes for people like Cheryl Catlin) and then gives us no credit but calls us negative and people such as yourself look no further than what they say"

From past issues I have heard of a few that took your advise. Please note that no one forms my opinions, especially not in TPS. I have formed my own opinions from spending years as a volunteer in our district. I have found what works with me. As I have said, we both have a name in TPS. Believe me, my is not always positive either.

Have fun tonight, if you attend. I would love some post as to any details of the meeting! With all the events at the schools this time of year, I am getting too burnt out to attend.

The fallacy of black college graduates not wanting to teach in TPS is just that a fallacy. Why do white women who have more opportunities for employment choose teaching (for low pay) and black women don’t? Women who have less opportunities for employment? That makes absolutely no sense.

Teaching is a profession that provides a lucrative income, plenty of time off, opportunities for advancement and can also provide family teaching dynasties. You know, grandmother is/was a teacher, mom is a teacher and then there is daughter/granddaughter who is now teaching. Or dad is an administrator, mom is a teacher and now daughter is a teacher, albeit not a very good one. There are many of these dynasties in TPS.

Why wouldn’t black families want to capitalize on this profession?

You say, ***** A more competitive salary schedule would also lead to more minority teachers in TPS. Now, minority teaching graduates have many choices in other urban districts, both near and far, that simply pay more money. Also, minority college graduates -- properly -- have had more avenues of professional employment opened to them than they did a generation ago.*****

That is, as some would say “Hogwash.” A generation ago I had many more opportunities for professional employment than my daughter does today.

What would lead to more minority teachers is a concerted, true effort to recruit, hire and retain minority teachers. The Toledo Plan is the stumbling block for many, many minority teachers being denied employment in TPS.

Gee, I hope that successful, black, administrator who is going to be a college instructor is not Crystal Ellis. He needs to go sit down somewhere. :=)

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this article...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_7_99/ai_69964352/pg_2

A few quotes from the article...

- Quentin R. Lawson, executive director of the National Alliance of Black School Educators in Washington, D.C., believes that fewer people are entering teaching to fill the shortage because the job market has opened its arms to Blacks in other fields. "In the 1940s and 1950s, you had a preponderance of Blacks going into education. Teachers were looked up to and well respected because it was one of the three professions (including social work and postal service) that Blacks could go into and not face discrimination. But today, Blacks are going into other professions because of equal opportunities," explains Lawson."

- Dr. Spencer H. Holland, executive director and founder of Project 2000 in Washington, D.C., says many middle-class and upper middle-class Black parents don't want their children to be teachers.
"I have friends who don't want their children to be teachers. They don't think it is worth spending all that money on tuition just to become a teacher," he says. "The dearth of teachers in the Black community is because there are so many other things open to them to do. Black people don't see it as a service to the African-American community to have Black teachers stand in front of our Black students because there are too many opportunities to make loads of money in corporate America. Corporate America is calling and they are coming."

...I didn't mean my question in an argumentative way. Just curious, that's all.

(I don't take sides in the TPS arguments. Don't have enough background/familiarity with TPS to make an argument one way or the other...I just try to take in all the differing perspectives here.)

was meant for Pertcheck.

But the research cited supports my contentions. Please don't let facts get in the way of your opinion!

Dale, you are constantly saying there is evidence to support your claims in your posts. Yet to my knowledge I have never seen you link or cite such research in any post on this site. Before you go off, I did not question a thing. But on the other hand I did not say I agree.

So again I ask, where is the evidence and research? Cite your support. Better yet, provide us a link.

The research I refer to is in Sarah's information cited above Twila's comments.

repeat

But from 1988...Seems related, though, to the conversation at hand...

Excerpt:
EDUCATION; Many Minority Teachers Plan to Quit, Poll Finds
LEAD: Despite a noticeable improvement in their salaries and morale in recent years, a substantial number of teachers plan to quit teaching within five years, especially young teachers and black and Hispanic teachers, according to a new national survey.

Despite a noticeable improvement in their salaries and morale in recent years, a substantial number of teachers plan to quit teaching within five years, especially young teachers and black and Hispanic teachers, according to a new national survey.

The finding gives further backing to a widespread view among educators that the number of public school teachers who are members of minority groups will probably fall sharply in the next decade. The educators say this could severely jeopardize efforts to improve urban school districts, especially because it will happen as the number of black and Hispanic students increases.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.htmlres=940DE7DF1731F936A35753C1A9...

urban legend comes from. Thanks Wombat and Sarah. After reading the articles it would seem to me that if the information presented is true why would a school system exacerbate the problem by getting rid of the few black and Hispanic teachers that have gone to college to become teachers, who have survived the cut, who passed the exams, who passed the student teaching, who did everything right to become a teacher only to be fired by the union that represents them?

Should not they have been mentored if there was a problem? Wouldn't you want to keep a minority teacher "in the pipeline" if they are that hard to come by and fulfill a need? Wouldn't you provide opportunities to mentor?

I have seen a lot more than you, have been to a lot more places than you, met a lot more people than you and I really don't need you of all people to teach me anything.

I know the societal issues that surround school systems. You just want to believe that it is just "inner city" school's, children, communities with problems, when I know that society creates problems for everyone, even you.

Teachers, principals, administrators all have the same problems that parents have. It's not just one group that is responsible for the plight of all children in society. You want to gloss over the issue that all people have problems but while I know what some of the problems are and try to bring it to the attention of the powers, you want to gloss over them and blame parents.

By the way, what schools did you attend? Were they TPS schools?

I went to Larchmont, DeVeaux and graduated from Start---------I was raised in a completely different environment. Did we face challenges and pressure, sure. However, my graduating class of friends knew the consequences when we acted up. I was NEVER suspended, nor were my brothers. My friends and I did have a great time, but when we got caught, we suffered! Other sub school districts have different struggles, I know this. However, they do not deal with no working phone numbers, children in foster care, children not eating at home, working utilities, mom being abused, etc., I hope you get my point.

In the Libbey area, I notice many different challenges these children face than where I was raised. Keep in mind, society and its struggles have changed a lot since I was in school. However, the kids I see in HS- in all locations- when they have family support, they are more apt to succed.
As far as your post, yes you may be older and have seen more, but your negative energy flows like a river and it drowns all around you! Therefore, I believe ,by being more optimistic, I am wiser!

I don't tell you how to do you so don't you tell me how to do me.

How can I point out a positive if I NEVER see one. Should I just make it up and move along while thousands of children are failing? Can't do that. Maybe you can and sleep at night, I can't.

Was this a mistype? *****Todate, I have not had a situation resolved or look at by administration or the BOE.*****

Because if this is true then you need to get negative!

OK....Todate, I have not brought forth an issue or situation where the administrators or BOE have not looked into it.
I am Not telling you how to do, just offering suggestions! Lighten up will you?

what part of you do you and I do me don't you understand? You are light enough for both of us. :=)

whatever....................

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.