Newt answers the Obama challenge- he says this is an opportunity

Newt's speech at the American Enterprise Instiute is a hot topic on the news shows today. Barack's opening paragraph is powerful.

I think that it is the opportunity which Senator Obama gave all of us in his speech in Philadelphia to reengage in a dialogue about poverty, race, and the future of those Americans who are currently unable to pursue happiness. That is something we should not casually set aside.

Senator Obama said, and I quote:

By investing in our schools and our communities . . . at this moment in this election, we can come together and say, Not this time. This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can’t learn, that those kids who don’t look like us are somebody else’s problem. The children of America are not those kids; they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a twenty-first century economy. Not this time.

Let me suggest to all of you that if you set aside the normal partisanship and cynicism of politics, that that’s a very powerful paragraph and a paragraph worthy of response at the same level, that in fact we should set aside the cynicism, and I am giving this speech today to take up this opportunity, both to reject cynicism, but also to suggest that we find real solutions. But to find real solutions, I would argue, we have to have real honesty and a serious dialogue in which unpleasant facts are put on the table and bold proposals are discussed.

Senator Obama gave us a very courageous speech. We owe it to him and to the topic to take it very seriously and respond to the level of eloquence and systematic explanation that he gave us. He asked historic questions, and that is appropriate. And I want to make quite clear, and this may well be a disappointment to the more partisan and the more ideological, my speech today is not an answer to Senator Obama. It is not a refutation. Hopefully, it is the beginning of a genuine dialogue in which people of all backgrounds can come together to have a serious conversation about America’s future.

Let me start by talking about the concept of anger, because I do think there’s an authenticity and legitimacy of anger by many groups in America. Senator Obama said in his speech:

That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white coworkers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings. . . . That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition.

I think that that’s right, and I think that it’s important to recognize that anger can be a source of energy to create a better future—in which case it’s a very good thing. But if anger is a self-inflicted wound that limits us, it is a very bad and a very dangerous thing. And we have to be very careful about the role that anger plays in our culture. Tragically, what has happened is that cultural and political leaders have used anger as an excuse to avoid reality, as an excuse to avoid change, as an excuse to avoid accountability, because everything that is wrong is somehow somebody else’s fault.

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if we only could set aside our partisanship and reason together.

Unfortunately we have members of congress who have served for thirty years or more and have no idea of what the average citizen needs. We also have presidents who leave office and make 109 million dollars as lobbyists without credentials.

Obama is right but he is message is fifty years too late.


Obama is not 50 years too late. Obama is here and now. He's not lunatic left. He's not frightfully right. He's what we need to steer the good ship U.S.A. into the years ahead. Think "progressive" and then think Barack, and there you have it.

Patience is a great virtue.

I think the message was from Newt, not Obama. Towards the last paragraph in the speech, the comment was made that he'd like Obama to start talking about solutions - not to win points, but to find real solutions (my words). But will Obama (or Hillary or McCain or...) do that? I haven't heard a candidate running that has offered a solution about anything - just feel good platitudes that the masses eat up & don't bother to ask "how's he going to do THAT?" - just accepts the platitudes on blind faith.

Some of Newt's suggestions are interesting - make sense, and honestly, it's nice to finally hear real solutions being offered, and real causes of problems being discussed. Rewards for kids graduating early seems promising - but at the tune of what it costs to pay for one year in high school? How can that be afforded? (some may say how can we not afford to do it - but realistically, where does the money come from?) . And there's something that just feels wrong, about paying kids to graduate. They live in a country where all kids have the right to an education - they're very lucky to live here - and yet, the best we can come up with is to pay them off to graduate? Perhaps a monotary enticement to graduate early - but the sum of a year's college or high school costs seems extremely out of whack. (Even Obama's $4,000 towards college seems out of whack as a reward to do what they're supposed to do anyway.) Perhaps our country needs to look into the cost of college in general - some countries college is available to every kid, no cost. A flaw I see in college today, is that there are some international students who attend free (unless I'm mistaken), and poor kids can get grants - meanwhile, middle class kids are left to accumulate a huge student loan debt. There seems to be an inequity.

The idea of not taxing kids aged 14 -16 on their paychecks - not so sure if this is even sensical. 1) Don't kids have to be age 16 to even be employed? Or, at 15 have a work permit? Are kids aged 14 even allowed to hold a real job? (maybe times have changed since I was a kid.) Even a reprieve of a couple of years of not paying taxes on salaries, will still come to kick them hard when the taxes are taken out. Personally - I don't think those tax dollars are even enough to quibble about & I'd be all for trying it.

Is it true that Native Americans (while living on reservations) are not allowed to own property?

Newt sited the statistic about 1 out of 4 girls having an std - I won't argue this statistic, probably true. But I'm curious why they aren't testing boys.

This is a speech I want to read again (my cats kept interupting me). He tossed out a lot of interesting ideas, and issues that do need to be talked about - to hell with being politically correct. (I am so weary of political correctness.) Much of the problems with kids today are cultural I think - kids today have grown up with instant gratification. Newt has good ideas, but how do you fix "lazy" & "I don't give a damn"? Kids have grown up with music & movies filled with vulgar & racist & sexist language - they grow up seeing that sex sells from the time they get their first Barbie doll, and enhanced when mama buys them belly tees that read "Juicy". They grow up hearing 'Smack my Bitch up", and rap about doing drugs & killing cops & the "N" word thrown out everywhere; they grow up thinking "prison chic" is cool, with baggy pants hanging below their asses so far they have to walk splay legged to keep them up. There are young girls who brag about how many 'baby daddies' they have (or want). All colors do this. How do you get kids to see it is not cool to strut & create this gangsta mentality? Find a way to address that, and get them to think it's cool to dress appropriately for school & a job & speak decent English & it'd be a start.

What is the solution to changing cultural environments? Please dont say change the environment to where we are talking censorship & bans.

Finally - There was a heavy slant about racism towards blacks in this speech. I worry will all this 'change' be one more way for a white man to not get the job because of 'quotas'. (My dad lost out on several promotions in the Toledo Fire Dept. to black men who scored much lower than he did.) I have been trying to educate myself - been reading a lot about growing up black in the 20's - 60's, the race riots, etc. and can honestly say, that as a high school student in the late 60's, the white kids in my school were pretty ignorant of racism - it didn't appear to even exist in our school (one of the first with bussing in the area). I don't recall any racist comments or attitudes - we all just seemed to get along well (really). Reading Rose Stewart's columns in the Blade has helped open my eyes (I went to high school with her) - who knew? But purnhrt was correct - I probably saw my childhood through White Eyes. (But I don't ever recall racial conflicts - we all had good times together.) Of course, I knew about racial problems elsewhere - that they existed I mean. I knew the Black Panther headquarters had more functions than to do 'teas'. But I had no idea these atrocities were going on to such horrific extremes, even into the 60's. It wasn't anything I saw up close & personal is all, and I was young & ignorant.

I do remember wondering at times as I got older, why slavery was lorded over the whites even still (when the whites who did it are long gone). But now, I've realized, that even if blacks have not personally been affected by slavery - even if they have not personally had to deal with assaults & blatent discrimination (I've seen plenty of well to do black families that makes me question whether all blacks have been exposed to this. My dad's old business partner was a well to do black man - great guy, no friction ever, they got along well. I can't envision him having to deal with discrimination or racism - but I"m sure he did. He had an uncle who was hung down south.) - they probably have a family member who did, or heard about it. And I can understand where the anger & attitude comes from.

Newt said kids need to break the victimization mindsets - and he's right I think. But how is that possible with people like Obama's preacher spewing the crap he spews? I know some black kids automatically dislike & distrust white people because it's what they've heard their whole lives from their parents & grandparents. How do you change mindsets that are so damned rock solid? At any rate - I wish I hadn't been so ignorant as a kid. Maybe I would have seen more through these white eyes.

I don't know if throwing more money at schools is the answer either. I do think less government is good - fewer people collecting salaries, on all levels. And there should be a law about how much money can be paid to CEO's in bonuses, severance pay, etc. - and ceilings on salaries of top CEO's perhaps. Nobody needs or deserves multi million dollar salaries. But then I come full circle to not wanting to buck free enterprise. I may be angry that ball players & movie stars make so much money - but I wouldn't want the govt. to dictate salaries. (although, maybe a ceiling on sports figures would be good?)

I have an International student family in my house. No, they do not get any freebies, except for a few of them that get the Fullbright scholarship. The student in my house has to teach full time to pay for his tuition . And he gets a small stipend from that teaching to pay some bills.

mailman - I didn't mean to imply your international people got free tuition. But many do. My husband told me years ago, that universities set aside an amount for international students - good relations or PR or something. Not sure how it works.


Star always makes good points. B^)


"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.


'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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Starling is a nice person who is fair, and always makes good points. El Hiccupo, on the other hand, is a scum-sucking POS who cannot make a comment or contribute a post in any thread without it becoming nothing but a personal attack on someone. He accomplishes no purpose whatsoever here other than to be a troll, yet when people fight back, Chris Meyers defends him and censors the very posters that are being insulted. Chris Meyers apparently doesn't care, so neither do I . El Masucko is a gutless piece of shit troll whose very prescence here is a mockery to free discussion.


"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.


'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

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"Oh, Bother!" said el Mahico, as he chambered his final round.

I have not clue what you are talking about. Where have I defended and censored those who were being attacked? You can't back up what you said because it is not true.

The fact is El Mahico has had 2 time outs along with Brian, those are the only two who have had this happen. And it will continue to do so. But I look at everything and if you or someone else does something to provoke it, then they are not to blame, but if they do something to provoke it then they will be blamed.

I get baited to get into a shouting match all the time, but I don't take it up.

In this case Mahico is wrong and you are also wrong too.

I ran into a young guy from China who is at UT . He goes for free through the sister cities program. Apparently Toledo has a sister city in China.

discussion and debate . Star is open minded and full of knowledge. She is fun to post with on here


Meyers doesn't give a shit what happens to his site. Probably too busy to monitor it. Let it go down in flame wars then. Toledo Talk disintegrated due to them. It may as well be called Charlatan's Blog now, he's pretty much taken it over. If anybody else tries to say much, Mahico and his troll companions swiftly follow, so no one much bothers these days.


"Oh, Bother!" Said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.


'I used to have compassion, but they taxed it and legislated it out of existence.'

on that we can agree.

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Sorry, wrong post, wrong person! I do not agree with any post here by Darkseid. Sorry again!

This what I intended to comment on from El. ***Please do not insult Mr. Myers.
He has more brains in his left little finger than you do in your entire cranium.***

On that we can agree.

EL: I thought the questions came from Brian Marxon. Are they the same person?

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The title of this thread is pretty much how to embrace the racial differences, set aside the anger and move forward past the pain.

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I don't think you're paying close enough attention to the world outside your racist bubble, so let me share a bit of news with you. White kids, hispanic kids and asian kids are fucking up too.

But it's all about "equality", right Twila?

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Not once has that respect been extended back to me.

And you can expect all the reinforcements to come crawling out of the woodwork to address this, but not the simple questions I've posted before.

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"Who can say ?"

"Who can say ?"

If A=B and A=C, does B=C? I think so. So if you say Brianinwhereverheis asked questions that Brian Marxon asked does that mean that brianinwhereverheis and Brian Marxon are the same people? I think so. To carry it a step further, is Brianinwhereverheis and Brian Marxon the same person as EL Mahico? I think so!

but I did find the questions were posed on March 31 on GCJ by a Brian Maxson  in comment  #35.  The post was "The Truth: Anger and America's Racial Divide..."

Who is the same person, I really have no way of telling.

He has some very good questions that remain unanswered both by you and "The Bishop".

The main question I would like to see answered is "When will this 'sense of entitlement' end and the 'accepting personal responsibility' kick in ?"


I think the only troll here is el mahico. It's been a very long time since he's posted anything that didn't include an insult or snide remark to somebody. At first, I enjoyed his wit - but it's not enough to compensate for the rudeness he spews. I try to ignore it - not always successfully. I think chris doesnt like flame wars & trolling from anybody - but I don't expect him to baby-sit this site, nor would I want him to. It's easy enough to ignore a troll. (and thank you all for the very nice things you said. el mahico - you have a dirty mind & seem to read meanings into comments where none are intended. If I recall, it is el mahico who is more likely to be the one to call somebody a 'stalker' - maybe it's wishful thinking on his part. Kind of like the little guy with the little man part who talks a big talk to overcompensate? Maybe el mahico has 'size' issues about his own manhood.)

And I believe this thread was about a speech Newt gave - el mahico is the troll who stole the thread.

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I don't like it. I get baited into a debate many times, I don't take it up. Maybe those who are getting all worked up should do this too.

The men who brag the most, have & know the least.

el mahico - you were the one who claimed sarah (I think it was sarah) was 'stalking you'. I remember it well, because she seemed taken aback, startled - like she wasn't sure if you were joking or not. And I do not attack you - unless you spew insults & attack other people, and you do it a lot. And, IF you scroll back & re-read the comments posted on this thread, you WILL see, that it WAS el mahico that called darkseid a horny old man. Out of nowhere - had nothing to do with the topic. YOU provoked it, not darkseid.

Enough already - Newt's speech was an interesting read, one worth re-reading. I was impressed he said things that were politically unpopular to say, but it's about time somebody did.

Obama gave a great speech and touched on many points that I understand, have seen and agree with. Because of who he is and the presidential race, this topic has become a national debate. Good! We need to talk about it and a little introspection seems in order as well.

Gingrich should be commended for continuing the dialogue and extending the debate.

And I am disappointed that many here have not contributed to the debate.

A personal note, if you don't want flame wars, ignore the comments. I know it is hard when you are the brunt of the comment and being called names, but hey sometimes its best to just not give the comment any credibility by ignoring it. Not always.

Chris Meyers should not be expected to edit or delete comments that might be a personal attack or offensive. He is not our babysitter. But some rules should be applied. I do believe he should weigh in on what he thinks and I have no problems with banning people that continually use personal attacks instead of debating the issues at hand. There is absolutely noting of value in a personal attack. Now I do believe that a discussion of behavior is appropriate. But any accusations should be substantiated.

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