Stop Property Taxes

We need to get some petitions going to get these Tax Issues BACK on the ballet in November. The Schools put them on over and over again until they pass. Well, we can get it Back on and at the proper time to Vote, NOVEMBER !

We need a No Means No Law - petition to put it to a Vote.

We need to get these Property Tax Issues Back on in November - petition to repeal

We should Only Vote on tax issues in November. And If a Tax gets voted down. It should Not be allowed back on for 2 years!

If you would like to help or sign a petition. E-Mail to

Thank You..

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I'd really be interested in putting the 3/4% tax back on the ballot. I'd help campaign for putting that back on the ballot. Any serious taker's?

sign me up.

I understand weaning a baby. While I detest the 3/4 situation, I understand that it's become a built in for the budget. After 28 years, ya really need to consider all aspects so to that end, I think putting it back on the ballot as a "reduction" is in order.

Tho I beleive with the right people in office, the 3/4 could be eliminated, I know that those people are not in office and it will be at least a year before we can change that. So, as a way to bridge the gap in common sense, we should start weaning the city from this tax. Put it back on for November and reduce it to 1/2 %. That's a give and take approach. Since I beleive that only the 1/3 that goes directly to safety is really neeeded (at this time), then a 1/4 % reduction is in order and the elimination of the CIP portion should come as a no brainer.

This would show a willingness to make concessions on both sides. It will show an understanding on the detractors side that it takes time to re-fund other things and it shows that the leadership knows it's choices are few in terms of reducing administrative costs and re-negotiating employee contracts is a must.

The next step will be replacing Finkbeiner and his entire staff at the end of his term(or sooner). Along with this is driving Council to replace Sobczak as Council Prez. (imo, this should happen this week for his idiotic statement. Clearly, no understanding of the scope of his job).

Most importantly is to get smart people to go over the budget and the plan and assist the Council and Administration in coming to terms with financial reality.

Ok you all, how on earth are you going to recoup the revenue you are so bent on eliminating from the 3/4% tax? You are willing to cut taxes but do not have the faintest idea where the funds would come from to pay for our police, fire etc. I bet you people would be the first to bitch if the cut in taxes would effect services, which eventually it would.

"All evil and unhappiness in this world comes from the I-concept."

"All evil and unhappiness in this world comes from the I-concept."

Unfortunatly Chad, what you stated will never work, becasue it would make too much sense, something Farty and council DON'T have.

Eliminate the Union influence and you will eliminate the 3/4%. One of the very biggest unecessary budget items is the City paying what is normally in all other municipalities the employees share of their retirement contribution to the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System. Talk about a sweetheat deal.

The public schools are going to zero based budgeting. Which is such a great thing. Everything that goes into each new budget has to be justified. The budget starts at ZERO. There are no legacy costs - no 'well we got it before' costs. Every expenditure is justified as necessary and timely before put into the budget.

There is little waste when it's done like this - most all spending in the business world and truly, in most of our houses, is done on this basis.

Can you imagine budgeting like the city does at home? Little Johnny comes in and asks for $120.00 for a football uniform and team fees. Dad says, 'why Johnny, I thought you said you were playing basketball this year?'

Little Johnny says, "Why yes Father, I will indeed be playing basketball this year and I will need $150.00 for that. But the uniforms are really keen".

Father asks: "Why Johnny, if you are to be playing basketball and not football this year, why do you need the $120.00 for football?"

Johnny: "Because you gave it to me last year".

IF the city went to zero based budgeting, how much would we save? I'd also like to see an independent body review the last three years budget and match it up against the actual needs of the city. We need to spend more revenue on fire and police, imo, because as the economic picture declines, crime rises. Happens 100% of the time. I don't want any dead cops or firemen. And, also IMO, there is no way to put a price on that. Also our city needs to take a hard look at the job situation, review what other cities who have recovered from situations like we are in have done and figure out how to do it here.

Basic services do have to be paid for. On a punitive note I am so dang mad at the Mayor that I would like to see him punished. If he was my son I would be humiliated. We won't go to the 'if he were my husband' because I've already divorced for much less.

But I think there has to be a happy medium between giving the city the MSRP (the first thing they asked for) and not having enough to pay for basic services. And I think we need an independent party or panel to get to that medium.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

Escrow budgeting is a valid governmental tool. Many school systems and municipalities create budget line items for future capital expenses. For instance in 2000 a city knows that in 2012 it will need to replace 4 garbage trucks at 220k each. they set aside 75,000 each year in the proper budget line item until the full amount accrues. This is sound financial planning. I hope you are not proposing to deprive them of this capability. Beware of the budgeting tool that is used that earmarks every cent for future expenditures. It is very often employed and makes the governmental entity look like they have much less money available than they actually have. For each future annual budgeting period they balance expected revenues and expected expenses to -0-. In actual fact they may have a large carry over from year to year. Governmental budgeting is a bit more complicated than balancing the family checkbook . The basic rules do apply though. You have income (revenues), expenses and hopefully something socked away for a future necessary purchase and a cushion for the unexpected. If only huh!?

As for your example - I have sold vehicles for many years. It is impossible to project the costs of a vehicle four years out. It is also not necessary to say that this would affect a zero based budget whatsoever. And misleading.

In a zero based budget, that line item would be proposed and accepted as a SOP that all municipalities and school districts have to replace aging equipment and technology.

The only thing that zero based budgeting would accomplish in your example is provide fresh cost projections every year rather than having to rely on stale projections.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

for twelve years in a community whose expenditures seldom out ran revenues in a single budget period, and plainly stated escrow funds and annual carry-overs I can state that switching to zero based budgeting will never compensate for what should be achieved through sound management. It is just another shell game of "where's the money" and "where' s it going". Incidentally this community I served in seldom missed the expected cost of replacing vehicles or other large future capital expenditures by more than 1% to 2%. Oh yes you can budget forward. I will state however that some brand new projects, done within a two year period between funding and completion did outrun the initial cost proposals. When a committee designs a building it doesn't always go smoothly.

maybe.....firstly most capital expenditures are budgeted for by a percentage on an annual basis. This would not be a problem with zero based budgeting, the information would simply be entered as authorized. The problem with the system as is, is that these line items are entered and not reviewed and authorized afresh with each budget.

I am curious, what type of budget item do you feel would be endangered if it were reviewed and authorized with each new budget? I can't imagine anything.......but possibly there is something.

Many people think that folks who do budgeting don't want to do any heavy lifting with regard to reviewing and trimming budgets on an ongoing basis. And that is why people who know what the different methods of government budgeting ARE......get very excited by the prospect of big pork trimming that accompanies zero based budgeting.

But I'm very interested to hear the downside of it. From you - if you'd care to share your knowledge.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

The mayor's 10g's with no consent.

Example - at the beginning of the fourth quarter the street department has not expended for supplies what they projected because the department was frugal and careful and somewhat lucky that things didn't wear out quite as quickly. Do they: A. Run out and stock up on small tools etc. because they lose their unspent funding at the end of the year or B. Come in under budget secure that they will not be penalized with a smaller budget next year and unable to replace legitimately needed items?

(I'm excluding payroll and other employee benefit costs to keep it simple and usually these expenses are another item altogether anyway.

spend all the money from the current budget? Then they start with either 1. a surplus in the following year or 2. they use that as part of their next years budget.

If you're here to tell me it's my fault - you're right. I meant to do it. It was alot of fun. That's why I have this happy smile on my face.

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