Mayor says Rose's call to defeat tax 'uncaring'

"Mr. Finkbeiner said the tax, which raises $57.7
million a year, is essential to providing police and fire protection
and unlimited trash collection.

First enacted in 1982 and renewed regularly since then, it was last renewed in 2004 with just over 51 percent of the vote.

If defeated in March, the city would have another chance in November to get it approved.

“Now we’re down to, do we lay off policemen, firefighters, and refuse workers?” Mr. Finkbeiner said.

“Police and firemen aren’t going to work for free. Refuse workers aren’t going to work for free,” Mr. Finkbeiner said."

"Mrs. Griffin yesterday cited not her
discrimination complaint but the mayor’s controversial spending
decisions a reason to wipe the tax off the city’s books.

“We’re
saying we’re not happy with the way you’re spending our money. This is
one of the ways we get your attention. What we really want to do is
make him understand that we’re tired of him squandering money,” Ms.
Griffin said.

Councilman Frank Szollosi introduced a resolution
for possible consideration Tuesday to have the full council endorse the
tax renewal."

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080126/NEWS16/801260445

 

No votes yet

for the Mayor to understand but Griffin is right about all of us being concerned about how our money is spent. But some of us are also concerned about how to stay competitive with other communities in our area and globally.

Our choices are often limited in who we can vote to put in office to do the public's business. Politicians frequently need a good dose of reality to realize the public has moved beyond their rhetoric and want changes. Voting on a ballot issue like the tax renewal is perhaps one of the best ways to get a message through to a group of elected leaders that are out of touch with the community.

In the case of our Mayor, he wishes to tell all of us that he knows best and we should just act like sheep.

A 2x4 to the head is a good wake up call. In this case, the city has another attempt in November and could always go to a special election (which would be a mistake) to pass the renewal.

I'm of the opinion that we send City Council and our Mayor a message. We pay the taxes. You work for us. Stop telling us what we should do and listen to what we believe are the concerns and priorities of this community.

Income and property taxes that are higher than surrounding communities are one big reason people leave Toledo and businesses don't want to locate here. We may all have to "ween" ourselves off the belief that we need ever increasing services. What we have to do is learn to live within our means and grow our economic base. Lowering taxes may be the right approach to forcing city government to restructure its staff and services and should help attract businesses to Toledo.

Public service jobs are a net drain on the city's coffers. We need the jobs coming from the private sector which then results in a positive contribution to the city's finances.

We do need to look for balance. But our local leaders seem to know only one way out of any mess: raid the public's pocketbooks. Over time we have fewer people paying for the services as residents and businesses flee the city, county.... Those who stay either pay more for services or face cuts. The reality is we see both.

There is another levy on the ballot: a renewal for TPS. They too seem stricken by the same disease as the Mayor, city council and our county commissioners.

I have to stop - my blood pressure is rising!

Anybody else think it's time for the 2x4?

It would be an interesting experiment to see if “they” would work for free. We have volunteers that have become an important part of the economy. For example, “interns” at media companies, senior citizens who man the senior centers, grandmothers who baby sit their grandchildren while their sons and daughters proudly bring home a larger paycheck than they otherwise would. I am sure that there would be some “volunteers”, though perhaps not enough to provide a level of service akin to a professional (paid) force.
You see (and hear) about it all the time. A citizen who takes on the responsibility that the “professional” force is too swamped to deal with. A citizen is directing traffic until the “real” police show up. A citizen who “cleans up” after the garbage men leave the trash cans of their neighbor in the middle of the street. Someone fills a pothole rather than wait for city services to do it. We don’t know what could, or would, be done by citizens, but perhaps we will have a chance to find out when the income tax is not renewed.

Old South End Broadway

I say we the citizens take over the city from these complete f*#@%#*# idiots.

Police and Fire will not be laid off. They charge $1500 dollar response fee to respond to an accident and the another $500 to transport you, plus mileage!!!

Can you imagine if a Private company charged you $2000 dollars. They would be lynched in this GD town.

And to add to the misery the County Life Squad's who we pay taxes for also, are now going to start charging us to transport also. $850 per run. And if they come to your house and they don't transport they are going to charge you a $150 dollar "response fee".

I can remember just over a year ago people were bitching about what a private ambulance charges. Looks like they were a pretty good bargain.
THIS TAX MUST BE DEFEATED!!!!!

and call it REMSNO®!

$$$

Lowell Joy would be very proud....
http://www.romingerlegal.com/Ohio_case_law/1995/1995-ohio-259.html

Private company run with county tax dollars..... does this sound familar... Does any when remember why REM$NO was defeated. Because local 92 thought it was a fraud to charge tax payers for transport!!! Oh have times changed.

“For a resident of Valdosta, Georgia, or any other state to campaign to defeat a school levy or payroll tax in Toledo, Ohio, is irresponsible and uncaring,” Mr. Finkbeiner said.
---------------------------------

FWIW. Here are just a few observations about this statement:

1. It appears to me that the mayor's statement was carefully crafted to become a sound byte designed for people to pick up on. Why? Because the other things that were said were not really relevant to what clearly was meant to be the heart of the issue.

In fact, the mayor's comment could be seen as an ad hominem argument. Where people live has no bearing on their beliefs, observations, and the manner in which they wish to express them. Where people live is irrelevant to whether or not their statements are true or false, good or bad, moral or immoral, logical or illogical about another city.

This is the mayoral equivalent of what fundamentalists do when they beat people over the head with Bible verses plucked out of their contexts (vis a vis sound-bytes) rather than give solid reasons.

2. Assuming what one is trying to show or demonstrate is not evidence. It is begging the question. The mayor did not do a very good job at showing how Rev. Rose's beliefs are irresponsible and uncaring. In fact, IF Rev. Rose is correct, it just might be quite the opposite--that Rev Rose was being responsible because he cares.

3. The criteria that the mayor uses to make certain claims and judgements about others is the same criteria that should be used to judge the mayor himself. The mayor himself has gathered plenty of out-of-towners to promote his own agenda. Besides, who doesn't make judgements about a city that is not their own when they visit relatives or go on vacation?

Is Rev Rose right or is the mayor right about the tax issue? I honestly don't know at this point because the mayor failed to say how and why Rev Rose is irresponsible and uncaring.

I'm only saying that the mayor should learn to do a better job at giving solid answers and reasons. That is, after all what a responsible mayor should be doing if he is to be believed or have any degree of credibility.

Like any long term politico, the Mayor, knows well not to give firm and distinct statements.

 

Speaking in vague terms is part and parcel of political life and makes it hard for people to pin him down.

 

Say just enough and not too much, and that is what he did and for good measure he threw in the same warnings about cuts in public service.

Tough.

His Highness, Carty, is owned by the Unions.

You Toledoans will do exactly what the Unions tell Carty you will do.

Now shut the hell up and vote for the Unions .75% pay raise.

Don't blame me,
I didn't vote for a
socialist.

mayor of this fair city. To defeat the Toledo Public School levy, Issue 7 and the personal tax levy, Issue 1 would send a bold message to the mayor that you can't lie to us to get elected and expect no consequences and to TPS that you can't betray us and expect no consequences.

I am not a great fan of Rev. Rose because of his political ties to TPS and Francine Lawrence but his words ring true for me. Stop the money and people pay attention. We can march, cry, threaten and then as the mayor says we are 24 hour news. Defeating these two levies will send a powerful message to our children, that you can make a difference by voting.

Collectively (black and white) we can make changes by walking to the ballot box and just saying NO! To paraphrase Frederick Douglass, "power concedes nothing without a demand." Demand your place at the table with your no vote!

We the people of the United States..................................

will never be defeated!!

If the Mayor was caring he would resign immediately as well as his staff and Sobscak.

I"m also not a fan of Mr. Rose's - simply because I think he's an arrogant ass who just likes to throw his weight around & start fires where there weren't any. I"m not defending Carty , and I won't ever vote 'yes' to another school levy again in my lifetime - but Mr.Rose has no business putting his two cents into Toledo's business. If he cares so much, then tell him to move back here to live.

(For what it's worth - I won't vote for school levies anymore because I feel smokers already pay more than their pound of flesh 'for the damned children' than non-smokers do. I am also disqusted at how children were prostituted in the media to push the smoking ban. Simply put - I am just weary of citizens being expected to bend over backwards 'for the children'.)

MLK was from Atlanta, Georgia and he went to cities all over the US to fight for Civil Rights. Before his death he was called a troublemaker, now he's a martyr. Floyd Rose is from Valdosta, Georgia. I guess you can only make statements about another city if you are from Atlanta. Agent Starling, don't you realize that Dr. King did more for women than any other oppressed group and now here you are being overly critical of someone who is trying to stand up to modern day oppressors like Dr. King did. It doesn't make any difference where Reverend Rose is from. "A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Captain Kirk - What is wrong with anyone making a criticism? Sometimes it takes those with a different perspective outside the situation to bring attention to an issue that the community should be addressing.

Toledoans are far too sensitive to criticism about our fair city. And the Mayor is at the top of the list in this category.

Problem recognition is the first step toward the solution! What are we afraid of? Branding someone as an "outsider" is just another label used to disparage the messenger in hopes the message is just news for 24 hours. Instead we need to ask is this a problem, what facts are available and what should we do about it once we understand and concur it is a problem?

We have a world of problems right here in River City. And I don't want to hear that everyone else has them as well. We as a community can no longer make excuses or stick our heads in the sand be it a city government out of touch with its citizens and reality, the school system that serves its masters the public service unions, our serious lack of a coordinated economic development effort that really brings business to Toledo, or the racial disparities and race relations among our citizens.

Pointing at others saying they too have the problems is an excuse to not try or in trying do it half-assed! We need to start right here and get our house in order. It won't be easy. Our elected leaders may actually have to do some work and we have to support solid, well intended efforts and hold accountable those responsible for the results.

I never connected El mahico's calling Starling02 Clarice until just now when you called her Agent Starling.
As for the Rev Rose. As I recall he did like to stir things up and seemed to be on his way to becoming another Sharpton or Jackson. I do think he's on to something this time with the calling for the No vote on the levies. Problem is I don't think the message will actually sink into Carty's brain that we're tired of paying him our hard earned money for him to fritter away.

Did not know you had it in you, Mr.Kirk. Well spoken.

Personally, I never speak to Clarice in that tone. Seems for her the lambs have not yet stopped screaming ...

She clings to these cigarettes for comfort, you see...

I have to go for now...I'm having an old friend for dinner.

I have to clarify why I said that I am not a fan of Rev. Rose so that my feelings about him are in no way aligned with yours. The fact that he does not live in Toledo is no reason that he should be silent on what is happening here. And I don't consider him an arrogant ass. As he has stated he has children and a grandchild in Toledo along with business holdings.

You sound like the southern people who called the Freedom Riders, the college students and Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney outside agitators. The interventions of these people changed the face of America pushing Americans to right the injustices facing black Americans during the Civil Rights Movement. Without these outside agitators
black America would still be drinking from Colored Only drinking fountains and white Americans would still be drinking from White Only drinking fountains.

You sound like the person telling people who don't have children in the Toledo Public School system that they have no voice in what happens in the schools. That they are outside agitators.

We all have a voice in what happens in Toledo------Vote no on Issue1 and Issue 7.

Does anyone know where I can find last years annual budget?

Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.
-James Madison, Federalist No. 10, November 23, 1787

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